If Diana had been older

oak_and_cedar · July 11, 2019, 04:11:28 AM

I do wonder if by the end of her life, if she ever regretted saying yes to PC.

Curryong · July 11, 2019, 05:35:43 AM

Quote from: oak_and_cedar on July 11, 2019, 04:11:28 AM
I do wonder if by the end of her life, if she ever regretted saying yes to PC.

I'm sure she did have quite a few regrets. Almost everyone does after a long failed marriage, and Diana had been married, miserably, for most of her adult life. Of course her sons made up for much of it, but she had really gone through a lot in those sixteen years.

amabel · July 11, 2019, 02:33:57 PM

Quote from: sandy on July 10, 2019, 11:19:25 PM
If she turned him down, Charles would have to look further on the list of eligible women, and they probably would get younger and younger as the years went by

very probably...

LouisFerdinand · July 12, 2019, 01:10:30 AM

If Prince Charles had married a lady in her mid thirties, there would have been only so many years for her to have children.

Princess Cassandra · July 14, 2019, 01:54:33 PM

Quote from: sandy on July 10, 2019, 11:19:25 PM
If she turned him down, Charles would have to look further on the list of eligible women, and they probably would get younger and younger as the years went by

That's what I think, too. The real issue was that virgin requirement. Poor Diana even had to go through a doctor's examination, if I remember correctly!

amabel · July 14, 2019, 02:00:59 PM

Quote from: Princess Cassandra on July 14, 2019, 01:54:33 PM
That's what I think, too. The real issue was that virgin requirement. Poor Diana even had to go through a doctor's examination, if I remember correctly!

no she didn't

sandy · July 14, 2019, 05:34:50 PM

Her Uncle went to the media and said she did.

amabel · July 14, 2019, 08:32:54 PM

Quote from: sandy on July 14, 2019, 05:34:50 PM
Her Uncle went to the media and said she did.

Really?

Princess Cassandra · July 14, 2019, 08:43:16 PM

Quote from: amabel on July 14, 2019, 08:32:54 PM
Really?

Perhaps they had fake news back in 1981. I remember reading it in People Magazine and thought it was extremely archaic and awful. It was many years ago, and my memory is not always the best, but that's what I remember.

amabel · July 14, 2019, 08:48:13 PM

It didn't happen. Her uncle said that she "had never had a lover"..but nobody has ever said that she had a doctor's test

sandy · July 14, 2019, 08:50:00 PM

I recall he did mention she got the exam. HOw else would it be known she had no lover. I also read a few biographies where it was said she was bothered by having to get the medical exam. It makes sense since CHarles wanted heirs and if Diana had been sterile there may have been a cancellation of the wedding or she would be talked into dropping out.

amabel · July 14, 2019, 08:52:41 PM

There is no way you can be sure someone is "sterile".. and which is it? A test to see if she was a virgin or to see if she was fertile?

sandy · July 14, 2019, 08:59:39 PM

There is a way. Suppose there were issues with her ovaries. It probably was to see if she was virginal and to see if she could be any problems with her reproductive system.

amabel · July 14, 2019, 09:02:49 PM

And when did this happen? It wouldn't make much sense unless it was before Charles proposed..and it would look a little bit odd if the RF ordered her to have a test of her hymen and her reproductive system.. while she and C were dating...

sandy · July 14, 2019, 09:22:45 PM

I'm just the messenger. Her Uncle said there was an examination I have no idea when it happened. Some bios of Diana say she was not happy at having to get this exam.

TLLK · July 14, 2019, 10:12:58 PM

Quote from: sandy on July 14, 2019, 08:50:00 PM
I recall he did mention she got the exam. HOw else would it be known she had no lover. I also read a few biographies where it was said she was bothered by having to get the medical exam. It makes sense since CHarles wanted heirs and if Diana had been sterile there may have been a cancellation of the wedding or she would be talked into dropping out.

TBH I believe that Diana just had a routine gynelogical exam. If she had a regular cycle and no related issues is endometriosis or hormonal problems, there would be no reason to check for fertility. After all Diana's immediate maternal female relatives: Frances, Sarah and Jane had all had conceived and had children. I believe that Diana's uncle was just speculating when he made his remarks.

sandy · July 14, 2019, 10:25:22 PM

Frances got tested by various doctors after she did not produce a son who survived. At the insistence of John S. who should have known he determined the sex of the children. I think the royals might have heard about that. I recall the remarks and he did not speculate he stated it as fact. I think there is a video clip someplace. This was mentioned in some of her biographies.

Double post auto-merged: July 14, 2019, 10:47:11 PM

I found this article. Dr. Pinker examined her.

Will Kate Middleton Have to Prove She's a Virgin? | E! News

TLLK · July 14, 2019, 10:57:07 PM

Frances certainly didn't have any issues with fertility as evidenced by the fact that she successfully conceived and carried at least five babies to term even though one died shortly after birth. Sadly though she had to see a specialist which hopefully confirmed to the Spencer family a fact which had been known for a very long time, that males determine gender. Frances like all of her surviving children did not have fertility problems.
Knowing these family facts, there really would be no reason to question Diana's ability to conceive and carry a child to term unless Diana had experienced some previous issues is: irregular cycles or other problems.

If months/years went by with the Wales not having a pregnancy, then I could see both requiring a visit to the specialist (s).

sandy · July 14, 2019, 11:11:37 PM

No she didn't. But the story might have been skewed.

Diana was said to have had a history but no past.

Charles also would have to be examined if time went by with no baby.

TLLK · July 15, 2019, 12:41:47 AM

@sandy-Would you please clarify what you mean in your statement about Diana? I am not sure what you mean by "she had a history but no past," is this regarding her medical history?
Regarding the Wales, yes as I acknowledged in my post, both would need a visit to a specialist.

LouisFerdinand · July 15, 2019, 01:14:58 AM

Who was Diana's uncle?

Curryong · July 15, 2019, 02:52:26 AM

Quote from: TLLK on July 14, 2019, 10:12:58 PM
TBH I believe that Diana just had a routine gynelogical exam. If she had a regular cycle and no related issues is endometriosis or hormonal problems, there would be no reason to check for fertility. After all Diana's immediate maternal female relatives: Frances, Sarah and Jane had all had conceived and had children. I believe that Diana's uncle was just speculating when he made his remarks.

I've just read the portion of Tina Brown's Diana Chronicles in which Lord Fermoy, Diana's uncle, gave an interview to James Whittaker which appeared in the Daily Star. He doesn't say anything about a medical examination, just takes a shot over a few of Charles's ex girlfriends about the purity issue, and states 'I can assure you that Diana has never had a lover'. (That was about six days before the incident when a tabloid asserted that Diana had visited the Royal train Charles was on in the middle of the night, so the purity issue came to the front after that and the Spencers and Diana reacted.)

However, there is no mention of a fertility or medical examination to test for virginity. There doesn't seem to have been any mention of Diana being tested for such an examination in the Press of the time either. I believe, like TLLK, that Diana had a routine gynaecological examination.

It may be one of those things, not uncommon in the Charles/Diana saga, that has become skewed over the years. Perhaps, under all the stress Diana's menstrual cycle became temporarily unusual, her periods sparse or something, but that's just speculation.

As amabel has posted, when did this medical examination supposedly take place? It would be extraordinarily insulting before the engagement and afterwards what would have happened if Diana had been proved to have something wrong with her reproductive system? A swift scuttling away by Charles and BP? After all, this was supposed to be a love match! The media would have been trying to find out the reason why and the fallout would have been huge.

TLLK · July 15, 2019, 03:59:29 AM

@LouisFerdinand - Lord Fermoy was her maternal uncle.

amabel · July 15, 2019, 07:37:22 AM

Quote from: TLLK on July 14, 2019, 10:12:58 PM
TBH I believe that Diana just had a routine gynelogical exam. If she had a regular cycle and no related issues is endometriosis or hormonal problems, there would be no reason to check for fertility. After all Diana's immediate maternal female relatives: Frances, Sarah and Jane had all had conceived and had children. I believe that Diana's uncle was just speculating when he made his remarks.

I think most people thought that it was rather louche of him to allude to Dianas virginal status.. but it was generally accepted that she was a young lady of no experience with men... which was what made her eligble to be C's bride. however I can't imagine the RF asking Di to have either a virginity test OR any kind of exam to see if she was fertile. There is no test - all you can do is check if there are any problems.. and unless the problems are major anyway, its not a given that one will have no children...I think it is highly unlikely that the RF would be so intrusive as to suggest that Di had any kind of tests when she was courting Charles..and what would be the point of them once she and he were committed to marriage?
Once they were engaged, it was highly unlikely that anything would be allowed to break off the marriage plans.
Diana was young and helathy and her mother had had 4 healthy children.. so I can't imagine that they anticpated any serious problems.. If she and C HAD proved unable to have children.. well - that would be bad luck.. which happens at times but it would not have invalidated their marriage.. so if it had happened they would have just had to live iwht it ...

Double post auto-merged: July 15, 2019, 07:40:41 AM

Quote from: TLLK on July 15, 2019, 12:41:47 AM
@sandy-Would you please clarify what you mean in your statement about Diana? I am not sure what you mean by "she had a history but no past," is this regarding her medical history?
Regarding the Wales, yes as I acknowledged in my post, both would need a visit to a specialist.

I think this was said of Diana that she had a history (ie a life before Charles) but no past ie no sexual past which might cause embarrassment... That was part of her appeal.. She was pretty and had had a few boyfriends.. but no serious ones and no one was likely to say that she had had any lovers..

Double post auto-merged: July 15, 2019, 08:04:10 AM

Quote from: Curryong on July 15, 2019, 02:52:26 AM
I've just read the portion of Tina Brown's Diana Chronicles in which Lord Fermoy, Diana's uncle, gave an interview to James Whittaker which appeared in the Daily Star. He doesn't say anything about a medical examination, just takes a shot over a few of Charles's ex girlfriends about the purity issue, and states 'I can assure you that Diana has never had a lover'. (That was about six days before the incident when a tabloid asserted that Diana had visited the Royal train Charles was on in the middle of the night, so the purity issue came to the front after that and the Spencers and Diana reacted.)

However, there is no mention of a fertility or medical examination to test for virginity. There doesn't seem to have been any mention of Diana being tested for such an examination in the Press of the time either. I believe, like TLLK, that Diana had a routine gynaecological examination.

It may be one of those things, not uncommon in the Charles/Diana saga, that has become skewed over the years. Perhaps, under all the stress Diana's menstrual cycle became temporarily unusual, her periods sparse or something, but that's just speculation.

As amabel has posted, when did this medical examination supposedly take place? It would be extraordinarily insulting before the engagement and afterwards what would have happened if Diana had been proved to have something wrong with her reproductive system? A swift scuttling away by Charles and BP? After all, this was supposed to be a love match! The media would have been trying to find out the reason why and the fallout would have been huge.

I can't imagine why they would do even a "routine" medical.. What would be the point? As you say, if they had discovered that Diana had some major problems that would make it less likely that she would have children.. they could harldy break off the engagement on thtat issue. it would be bound to leak out and would look very bad..
It was generally held that Diana had had no serious boyfriends and no lovers... She was a perfect bride in that sense. So there was no need for Lord Fermoy to say anything but he was a bit odd, I think.. and Im sure the Spencers were embarrassed at his sounding off...The Royal Train thing came up and the Palace defended Diana's honour... so clearly she was being seen as "pure" and so in the running to be C's wife.... and they were clearly treating her as a likely future bride and protecting her repuatation...

sandy · July 15, 2019, 01:08:46 PM

Quote from: TLLK on July 15, 2019, 12:41:47 AM
@sandy-Would you please clarify what you mean in your statement about Diana? I am not sure what you mean by "she had a history but no past," is this regarding her medical history?
Regarding the Wales, yes as I acknowledged in my post, both would need a visit to a specialist.

Nothing to do with medical. That was the "mantra" that she was "inexperienced." Maybe because one of Charles girlfriends (Davina Sheffield) exes came and said they lived together. They wanted the public to be "sure" there would be no exes showing up with Diana