How The Duchess of Cornwall Won Our Hearts

[sandy]

It's a matter of semantics. Charles in any event felt "coerced" and I think he never wants to own up to any choices he makes he blames others.

In any case it was not a nice thing to say particularly since not only would it hurt Diana but their two children. Children would not take kindly to such statements.
Double post auto-merged: July 04, 2014, 11:03:29 PM

^ Personally I think her father destroyed the young girl agreeing on her marrying Chuck  with wide open eyes about what awaited her that was vile ...

Still Charles was the one who asked Diana out, courted her, proposed to her and married her. I doubt her father had a clue what would have happened to Diana in the marriage--nobody can predict the future.  He thought that Charles would treat his daughter well.IMO.

Charles and Camilla were the people who did the most destruction.

[cinrit]

Children would likely not take kindly to a lot of remarks both parties made.

Cindy

[sandy]

Cindy we're talking Charles here and I am answering your post about his complaints about being "forced" to marry Diana or "pressured" or whatever.  Leaving semantics aside Cindy, Charles never professed to his biographer he married Diana for love and was eager to marry her. Saying he was Pressured Or Coerced is pretty insulting to a woman. Diana never said she felt pressured to marry Charles she always said she married him for love.

She has certainly won my loyalty, love and affection over the years. I remember how strongly I felt about her marrying the Prince of Wales all those years ago. You only have to look at my posts on the matter to see how strongly against I was...

I wasn't here back then but I also was strongly against him marrying her, I've done a complete 180 since then, not only was it good for him but I think she is good for the BRF.

I have not changed my view of her. I don't think she's "good" for the royal family not in the least.  With Charles sulking and pouting the Queen who does not like unpleasantness agreed to the marriage. Her mother did not want a C and C marriage in her lifetime. However "good" or "bad" it is for Charles he is stuck with her--he did out her as his mistress and became more or less obligated after the PBs divorced.

[TLLK]

In hindsight it would have been better for Diana to have taken her mother's advice to heart and not marry Charles. Frances appeared to have a better understanding of the BRF's expectations in the early 1980's and more likely knew about Charles' feelings for Camilla. Charles should have not pursued someone with very different interests from his own.  :(

However this is about Camilla and how the public's opinion of her has changed in the past decade or so. Personally I didn't think that we'd be seeing government opinion polls reflecting that 53% of the public believe that she should be known as Queen Camilla in the future. I truly believed it would have been much further in the future.

[sandy]

Did you read Frances' authorized biography? She clearly stated that although she had reservations about Charles she said nothing to her daughter saying that it was "time" for Diana to get married. She did not warn Diana or advise her other than getting her daughter ready for the wedding she did not offer her advice. It is on record via her authorized biography. She clearly indicated she had a hands off attitude re: advising Diana about possibly  backing out of the wedding.Surely if Diana expressed reservations to her sisters and got the answer bad luck, your face is on the tea towels too late to back out now, her mother would have at that point if she had reservations (which she said she did) would have spoken up.

Unfortunately Frances did nothing. Get a copy of the book and see for yourself.

But again this is not a definitive survey since it does not go door to door and get the entire population. It is also not known who was surveyed, for all we know Palace staff could have participated. It is not a definitive poll.

And again it does not matter because Charles will not want her to be Princess Consort as he previously stated. He just wanted to have the wedding and did not want to stir the waters. Also Diana was never Queen Consort so the whole basis of the poll holds no water. Why would it matter if Diana never held the title.

Re: the common interests. Charles interest in Diana was that he wanted a fertile, blue blooded, suitable girl with no past. Diana filled the bill. Camilla had a lot riding on the marriage not working out.  And she undermined Diana all the way.  Charles and Diana did both like classical music (Diana liked classical ballet and Italian opera) and both liked skiing and water sports. Without another woman in the way, I think Diana and Charles would have had a chance.

[Trudie]

NO but we all know Camilla's motives at the time.How come no one has said they talked to Amanda Knatchbull, Lady Jane, Emilie VanCutsem the late Kanga it's all out there.  As for who cheated first well Diana said that when Harry was born her whole marriage just went down the drain and Charles said he was faithful until the marriage was irretrievably broken down so as Diana said Charles went back to Camilla or as she put it his lady and both Hewitt and Diana said they became intimate in 86 so why all of a sudden is Camilla so acceptable is it because of those magic HRH before her name?.

In my case, it's because I don't think being upset about something that happened so many years ago is productive.  I also believe that people are not all bad, just like they're not all good, and that people are capable of atoning for whatever bad they did in the past and deserve to be forgiven.

Ah actually he did and offered proof of a letter his father sent him telling him to make up his mind to either marry her or end it so as not to compromise her reputation since the media was becoming intolerable. Phillip to his credit did not force the issue he just advised Charles to make up his mind Charles in his never take responsibility for his mistakes blamed his father. Read Dimbleby

I have read Dimbleby.  As you say, Philip did not "force" Charles to marry Diana.  But he did pressure him to.  Slight difference, but a difference.

Cindy

Cindy I am not upset about what happened years ago the past is what it is but I disagree about Camilla being capable of atoning for the bad she did in the past and no I do not believe she deserves to be forgiven. Camilla had no qualms usurping Diana as Charles wife and continued to do so after her death including wanting to attend her memorial service until public opinion squashed that not to mention the self satisfied smile she always puts on her face. Camilla may have won the hearts of those who fawn over the HRH but I see Camilla the woman not the HRH. IMO I do not believe she is the nice woman she puts herself out to be in public her prior actions speak volumes and a leopard does not change it spots.

On the Phillip issue he did not force or pressure him he just asked him to make up his mind it was Charles who later in a matter of self pity and again not wanting to take responsibility conveniently blamed his father.

[Macrobug]

I have always felt that Cams IS good for the BRF.  It was a PR nightmare to get the public to accept her, which they have succeed in doing.  Along the way, the RF has changed.  They seemed to be in tuned with public  opinion and more willing to adapt.  It started with the days following Diana's death and accelerated during this PR campaign.

Charles is IMO a happy man.  He seems more content and settled.  I feel that Cams is behind that.  And a happy man is going to be more willing to take on Kingship than the reluctant sullen and unhappy man from 30 - 40 years ago.

Cams is always going to be a hard sell with many people.  Diana still is warm in many hearts.  But the past happened, it can not be changed.  If the RF has accepted Cams, I am willing to give her a chance.  Afterall, they know her much better than any of us.

[sandy]

Charles looked happy with Diana in the early years. He was not always "sullen" around her.

What bothers me is that I have seen in so many comments that Charles is made "happy." Why is it so important that this man must be made happy? Why is it not about who the man makes happy. He sure didn't make his first wife "happy" and he treated his former mistress Lady Kanga abominably and would not talk to her even though she was gravely ill. 

It is not known how Charles thinks or feels about Camilla at this stage. He is good at keeping up appearances. In any case he is not going to divorce her--he'd lose much credibility and there would be another scandal.

I don't think she's good for the royal family. The Queen made the best of a bad thing. I don't think she is exactly happy at how Camilla got into the royal family.

A lot of spin doctoring was applied to Camilla for years before she married Charles. Charles grandmother did not want a C and C wedding in her lifetime.

What turned me off is (and I agree with Trudie's post) was that Camilla apparently thought she did nothing wrong and was ready to walk into Diana's Memorial Service until stopped by public opinion.

If Charles were so all fired happy with her he could have married her in the early seventies --the man did not even tell her to wait for him when he went to sea. And no I don't buy that he would have been refused had he pushed to marry her when she was still Camilla Shand. He also had her as his mistress for many years and did not deem her suitable apparently to have his heirs. Charles wanted to have his cake and eat it too. He more or less forced the divorce of the PBs when he confessed to adultery with Camilla and he was obliged to marry her. Charles had to create this Great Thirty Year love story even though he was married to another woman, came close to marrying two other women, and had other mistresses.

How the other royals feel about Camilla is subject to speculation. They perhaps are cordial but it is no big love fest.

[Trudie]

I have always felt that Cams IS good for the BRF.  It was a PR nightmare to get the public to accept her, which they have succeed in doing.  Along the way, the RF has changed.  They seemed to be in tuned with public  opinion and more willing to adapt.  It started with the days following Diana's death and accelerated during this PR campaign.

Charles is IMO a happy man.  He seems more content and settled.  I feel that Cams is behind that.  And a happy man is going to be more willing to take on Kingship than the reluctant sullen and unhappy man from 30 - 40 years ago.

Cams is always going to be a hard sell with many people.  Diana still is warm in many hearts.  But the past happened, it can not be changed.  If the RF has accepted Cams, I am willing to give her a chance.  Afterall, they know her much better than any of us.

Well the real 64000.00 dollar question is have they really accepted her? Lets face it they have to show happy families they did this while Diana and Sarah were in the family having marital problems they never really do let their feelings be known only Princess Anne is capable of telling it like it really is. Camilla was unacceptable before Diana came into the picture and was unsuitable so all of a sudden 40+ years later that has changed?

[Princess Cassandra]

What happened between them all back then was terribly complicated....and made all the worse because so much of it was played out in the public eye.  I admit I don't know or understand all the circumstances and minutiae.  The POW and DOC have my full support and I admire them both (she is my favorite royal), but I'm not getting on the polarizing bandwagon.  And I do know that we are ALL deserving of forgiveness.

[Eri]

I didn't read Di's book or Chuck's response to it because personally I am disgusted by " The War of Wales"  they were both very angry at each other and loved to throw blame at each other ... both books are not reliable because they reflect two angry people who would have said anything to hurt each other ... having said that ... Chuck never had a sit down like Di with his biographer he just let his biographer do his thing and he found letters one of which was of Phil pressuring his son to marry Di ... but I could be wrong as I said I want no part in that mess ...

[cinrit]

What turned me off is (and I agree with Trudie's post) was that Camilla apparently thought she did nothing wrong and was ready to walk into Diana's Memorial Service until stopped by public opinion. 

Camilla had originally decided not to go to the memorial.  She was asked to reconsider by William and Harry.  They wanted her there.  When she said yes, public opinion turned against her, and she stayed home. 

Cindy

[Eri]

^ Yep Will and Harry invited her so obviously THEY saw nothing wrong with it !!!

[amabel]

Did Charles say he "was forced" to marry Diana, or did he say he "felt pressured" to marry her?  It's tempting to assume Charles was the first to stray in 1986, but to be fair, we simply do not know.  The four people involved probably don't even know. 

Cindy

there was a lot of pressure but in a general way.  He was 30plus, it was time he got married.  If he waited much longer, his chances of finding a suitable virgin were getting slimmer and there would be a bigger age gap between him and his wife.  The public liked Diana, the RF liked her, she seemed perfect, she was in love with Charles.. the only person who was unsure was Charles...

[Curryong]

Did the Princes invite Camilla for her own sake though, or because such an invitation would really please their father? We don't know what William and Harry really think of Camilla in their hearts. If they completely absolve her of any blame in the break-up of their parents' marriage they have a larger capacity for forgiveness than most people possess.

[sandy]

William and Harry were grown ups when Charles married Camilla. They did not live with them and had their own quarters and did spend time at schools and military academies. She had no part of raising them. How they feel is subject to speculation. I think their father is high maintenance and I really don't think they had much of a choice regarding accepting Camilla. But that said I doubt it is a big lovefest with her.

I didn't read Di's book or Chuck's response to it because personally I am disgusted by " The War of Wales"  they were both very angry at each other and loved to throw blame at each other ... both books are not reliable because they reflect two angry people who would have said anything to hurt each other ... having said that ... Chuck never had a sit down like Di with his biographer he just let his biographer do his thing and he found letters one of which was of Phil pressuring his son to marry Di ... but I could be wrong as I said I want no part in that mess ...

Dimbleby did speak to Charles and his friends. He did not just base his research on letters. Philip's letter did not tell Charles he "had to" marry Diana. It said that if he didn't want to marry her he needed to let her go. Charles was 32 not a baby and made his own choices. It's amazing how the grown man blamed others for his own choices.

Diana never had a "sit down" with Morton. She sent tapes that answered questions he sent to her via a go-between. Her friends like Charles friends cooperated with Dimbleby cooperated with Morton.

I think both books are reliable and are of course from the people directly involved.


Double post auto-merged: July 05, 2014, 02:19:40 PM

Did Charles say he "was forced" to marry Diana, or did he say he "felt pressured" to marry her?  It's tempting to assume Charles was the first to stray in 1986, but to be fair, we simply do not know.  The four people involved probably don't even know. 

Cindy

there was a lot of pressure but in a general way.  He was 30plus, it was time he got married.  If he waited much longer, his chances of finding a suitable virgin were getting slimmer and there would be a bigger age gap between him and his wife.  The public liked Diana, the RF liked her, she seemed perfect, she was in love with Charles.. the only person who was unsure was Charles...

Technically Charles did not have to get married. IMO he did not want to have Andrew and his children succeed him. I think he very much wanted his own flesh and blood heirs. If Charles knew he preferred another woman he could have not married at all or put everything out on the table with the suitable woman before he proposed. She may have accepted the proposal because she'd be set for life and agree to be "civilized" about Camilla. He had no business marrying a starry eyed girl obviously besotted with him. . I think he felt of marriage as a "concept" and did not think of the realities of how human beings behaved and thought.
Double post auto-merged: July 05, 2014, 02:21:54 PM

^ Yep Will and Harry invited her so obviously THEY saw nothing wrong with it !!!

Eri you don't know the circumstances of why they invited her. I think their dad "suggested" they do it --I notice before the service he had to look at Harry's speech. I think Charles was clueless enough to think it a good idea and I think she'd like to send the message that see they all moved on and played the one big happy family. She could have thanked them (or Charles more likely) and turned down the invite. She took a lot of attention away from it with her dithering about backing out which she should have done in the first place.
Double post auto-merged: July 05, 2014, 02:24:01 PM

What turned me off is (and I agree with Trudie's post) was that Camilla apparently thought she did nothing wrong and was ready to walk into Diana's Memorial Service until stopped by public opinion. 

Camilla had originally decided not to go to the memorial.  She was asked to reconsider by William and Harry.  They wanted her there.  When she said yes, public opinion turned against her, and she stayed home. 

Cindy

Cindy this is all hearsay. William and Harry never said anything publicly about Camilla and the invite. They wisely did not issue statements or spoke to the press about it. I think it was Charles' idea I don't think William and Harry are that cold blooded to watch the woman that hurt their mother pay "her respects." (LOL)

I never read Camilla did not want to go and would not accept. I think the Queen had to step in and wise up her clueless son and his wife. And the outcry was so much that Camilla at the last minute backed out.
Double post auto-merged: July 05, 2014, 02:28:36 PM

What happened between them all back then was terribly complicated....and made all the worse because so much of it was played out in the public eye.  I admit I don't know or understand all the circumstances and minutiae.  The POW and DOC have my full support and I admire them both (she is my favorite royal), but I'm not getting on the polarizing bandwagon.  And I do know that we are ALL deserving of forgiveness.

It was not complicated. Charles felt entitled to have mistresses and had two married mistresses: Kanga and Camilla. Camilla became the favorite and Kanga was "out. Camilla liked IMO the perks and privileges of being the mistress and would have had a lot to lose had Charles and Diana made a go of the marriage. I think Camilla worked very hard to undermine the marriage and went to the press (Stuart Higgins) to give her side. Diana was upset because Charles would not give up the "friendship" with Camilla and Diana felt like she was playing second fiddle to Camilla so to speak. Camilla even let Diana know who was boss by sending Charles presents on the honeymoon with Diana. It is not complicated: a selfish woman made sure her married lover's marriage would not work; she flattered the lover and put down his wife (something mistresses traditionally never did--Lily Langtry for example would not put down Princess of Wales, Alexandra). Charles was in the thrall of this woman and once he did his duty and got the heir and spare Diana was history. Sorry I don't see this as complicated. It's one of the oldest stories of a mistress usurping the wife's place.

[amabel]

Did the Princes invite Camilla for her own sake though, or because such an invitation would really please their father? We don't know what William and Harry really think of Camilla in their hearts. If they completely absolve her of any blame in the break-up of their parents' marriage they have a larger capacity for forgiveness than most people possess.

I should not think they completely absolve her, but I think that they are not interested in going over the past again and again, and have accepted her as stepmother and C's wife...  I think they get on fairly well, they know she makes C happy and are happy for him, and they have their own lives to lead and aren't going to agonise all their lives over their parents bad marriage.  I think that they could see as they got older that Charles and Di simply didn't have enough to make a good marriage and it was likely to fail and that when that happened, it was likely that both husband and wife would take other lovers.

[cinrit]

Diana never had a "sit down" with Morton. She sent tapes that answered questions he sent to her via a go-between. Her friends like Charles friends cooperated with Dimbleby cooperated with Morton.

That's true.  Diana sneaked to get her story out, and then denied at first that she had anything to do with it.  We didn't learn about the tapes that she provided to Morton until after her death.

Technically Charles did not have to get married. IMO he did not want to have Andrew and his children succeed him. I think he very much wanted his own flesh and blood heirs.

It has always been the preference of the monarchy that the next heir be from the current heir.  If it weren't so, Philip wouldn't have cared if Charles got married or not, and wouldn't have pressured him.

Cindy this is all hearsay. William and Harry never said anything publicly about Camilla and the invite. They wisely did not issue statements or spoke to the press about it. I think it was Charles' idea I don't think William and Harry are that cold blooded to watch the woman that hurt their mother pay "her respects." (LOL)

It's all hearsay.  I believe the version I think makes the most sense, and you believe the version that you think makes the most sense.  But I think Camilla, at her age, could have distinguished the difference between an invitation that was forced, and one that was sincere.

Cindy

[amabel]

I imagine that Will and Harry felt ti would be better if Camilla was there, from a PR point of view.  But when there was a public outcry, tey were equally Ok with her not going.

[Limabeany]

I think Camilla, at her age, could have distinguished the difference between an invitation that was forced, and one that was sincere.

Cindy

I think Camilla was only interested on being accepted by the public and Charles's sons so, it was not not a matter of distinguishing but what would give her the best pr...

[Trudie]

Well from my point of view Camilla is and always has been interested in Camilla. I don't believe she cared if she was accepted by Charles's sons though she knew that it would make things easier especially if she didn't step in to Mummy territory but played friend on the surface and made Papa extremely happy. Camilla has been great at her own PR with the original guidance of Bolland she put it out that she was hesitant to become a public figure nonsense she loves the glittering events and that started with her original charity work and the original first kiss photo with Charles at a charity reception line. Camilla never cared about charity work during her marriage to APB it was only after her divorce and Diana's death did she get involved in a cause knowing it would help with her reputation being somewhat restored.

[sandy]

I imagine that Will and Harry felt ti would be better if Camilla was there, from a PR point of view.  But when there was a public outcry, tey were equally Ok with her not going.

It would have been a PR disaster and hijacked the purpose of the event. I don't think William and Harry would have liked to see her "honoring" their mother. They are not hypocrites. I think Charles was pushing for her to be there.
Double post auto-merged: July 05, 2014, 07:35:07 PM

Diana never had a "sit down" with Morton. She sent tapes that answered questions he sent to her via a go-between. Her friends like Charles friends cooperated with Dimbleby cooperated with Morton.

That's true.  Diana sneaked to get her story out, and then denied at first that she had anything to do with it.  We didn't learn about the tapes that she provided to Morton until after her death.

Technically Charles did not have to get married. IMO he did not want to have Andrew and his children succeed him. I think he very much wanted his own flesh and blood heirs.

It has always been the preference of the monarchy that the next heir be from the current heir.  If it weren't so, Philip wouldn't have cared if Charles got married or not, and wouldn't have pressured him.

Cindy this is all hearsay. William and Harry never said anything publicly about Camilla and the invite. They wisely did not issue statements or spoke to the press about it. I think it was Charles' idea I don't think William and Harry are that cold blooded to watch the woman that hurt their mother pay "her respects." (LOL)

It's all hearsay.  I believe the version I think makes the most sense, and you believe the version that you think makes the most sense.  But I think Camilla, at her age, could have distinguished the difference between an invitation that was forced, and one that was sincere.

Cindy

Diana wanted to get her story out. I don't blame her for not owning up. She would have perhaps paid dearly for it. In many ways it is a good thing she got her side out. Since she is slammed by Charles sympathizers and even his relatives.

It may be the preference of the monarchy but many second sons have become the King. It is not mandatory for the Prince of Wales to have a legitimate heir. That is what the line of succession is for.

I did not say the invitation was "forced." I think Charles "suggested" to his sons that she be invited. The sons would have had to be made of stone to think it "OK" for Camilla to "honor" their mother.  I credit William and Harry with more sensitivity. Camilla's presence would have ruined the event.
Double post auto-merged: July 05, 2014, 07:38:49 PM

Did the Princes invite Camilla for her own sake though, or because such an invitation would really please their father? We don't know what William and Harry really think of Camilla in their hearts. If they completely absolve her of any blame in the break-up of their parents' marriage they have a larger capacity for forgiveness than most people possess.

I should not think they completely absolve her, but I think that they are not interested in going over the past again and again, and have accepted her as stepmother and C's wife...  I think they get on fairly well, they know she makes C happy and are happy for him, and they have their own lives to lead and aren't going to agonise all their lives over their parents bad marriage.  I think that they could see as they got older that Charles and Di simply didn't have enough to make a good marriage and it was likely to fail and that when that happened, it was likely that both husband and wife would take other lovers.

Nobody knows what they think except them. I don't think they try to prettify it and give Camilla a pass.--they are cordial to her for their father's sake IMO.

Another woman was around in their parents marriage and she married their father. The other woman was also in the marriage from the get go. Charles and Diana  did not have enough to make a marriage because hubby preferred another woman and did not drop her.  I don't get all the hue and cry over making Charles happy. Who did he make "happy". Himself most likely. And Camilla made herself happy by latching on to him and did not want to give him up and also the lifestyle being with him gave her. If he had been Charles Jones--I doubt she'd have given him the time of day.

[FanDianaFancy]

I would prefer to stick to FACTS. FACTS. Not my opinion ,yours, hers, his, theirs. I am going to try to bring it to the center and for peace  around here.Much of waht  we are debating AGAIN is irrelevant. M<any variables  to explain this and that.

FACTS_________________________
PC and C  were  involved sometimes sexaully and  sometimes  not since they starting dating in the 1970's.
They have been on and off since they started dating....her marriage, pregnancy and childbirth, his other girlfriends, startlets( Susan Geroge etc.) , mistreses, etc. at that time.

They only way  they  were not going to be is if PC  ever  let her go or found a more formidable force as in a woman  as strong and determined and  as she was.  PD  was a fish   out  of water. Unmatched. Did not know how to go about PC and Cam.
Had no advice. Had no mother , really in the sense  of the word, no she did not. No aunts.

PC and C  undermined that mariage at every turn. Fred and Gladys  went on the honeymoon for God's Sake!!!!
FACT- as the old people say...a  man  is not going to go any further  than you let him. A woman is  not going to go any further than you let her.
PC and were a  couple from day one.  C  did not mind and wanted and did  want  PC  ...to be there for him as advisor, lover, confidante, nurse (when he broke his  arm or whatever)  PD  wanted to be there but  was not wanted . Mama  Camilla was there to make it  all better.


The PD memorial. Maybe the  PH and PW love her to bits and invited her to please their father  and  maybe the cunning
bas(*&s  did so  for  they knew  public would  roar at that.   The princes were  young adults then.  We NONE know. C   going was  simply appropriate.  PC should not have gone either. Really.
Please, it  would have looked as if she was dancing on the PD's grave.
Though  with most  of you here and the public today would  would say  she was trying to  stomp the  weeds  off Poor PD 's grave, LOL!!!!
It was too RECENT then. That  is the ONLY  reason.
If  PD had  died last week, would ,could C  attend the funeral? Maybe? Maybe not? I do not think they, PC, C, and PD  would have  not been friends. PD and PC would have had to sit side by side  at the wedding, graduations, ...C and PD's  husband/boyfriend  would have been  seated elsewhere.


Whether  BRF , esp. PP and QEII, and the princes love her, adore, is IRRELEVANT.
PC  wanted to marry her and did.  They  ALL MUST as the people  MUST  give her respect as the Q to be.
The Princes cannot and never will express their true reasons whatever they  are   and I do not care if they love  or  dispise her. It is really irrelevant.  Many  varibales here. They  are men. They  have their own lives. Their mother is dead and not coming back. They  were  a  pre-teen and teenager when  their mother died. PC  had to  spend time with them along the  TTB and QEII and PP  . Add boarding school.  When they did meet her, PW  first the saying goes,  they  were young adults.

I assume, I ASSUME  they  tolerate her, cordial, untied front  for their subjects is a must, and she  keeps boundaries with  them. Ex. no advice   on school, duties,  choosing a girlfriend/wife,  etc. They have QEII  for that.
Parents and kids, weird relationship  with  many  unless they seek help  or  can separate and  many do and  many dont'  and I am speaking of unhealthy ones or  where wrong was  .
Ex. OJ Simpson(Nicole's kids by him)  children still visit him in jail. They  do not believe by 100% that  he killed their mother.
They  have visited  and stayed somehwat  in touch with NS  's family, but the subjects of their father  by Browns is NEVER broight up. That is how they  all have lived these years.
So my point, PH and PW  KNOW what happened and KNOW  C and know their father. ONLYtheir  closest friends and K know , really know and the public will never know.

Who can be a good reason for  change,  the BRF for the better and  should be  , GOD a statue should  be made of her? PD. She came. Worked. Bred. And the ultimate , unexpected, pleasant  surprise  ,a gift for PC and C, was  getting herself killed. Who can ask of anything more? LOL
I say this to  say  about  C  being Queen of Hearts by her subjects...and how  you here all forgive, she her as a sweet  ,old wronged lady, etc.  well,  there are many variables  for  her  rise in opinion.
1-PD is dead. Not popping up in the press everyday  or  out there living.  2- Time. Time moves on.  3- Cam is not open by the BRF, TPTB, and her subjects for vote. I mean PC  even marrying her, not  a thing anyone could do . Not even QEII IF  , IF  she even wanted to. 4-It  is what  it is.

She/he who lives has the last the say. QE the Q Mother  ...did not want... well, she died  at long last and HAHA, WQueen Camilla  lives in Clearnce House as her city palace.

QEII  will die one day. a long timem from now.  If  PC dies before  he becomes K, we  can really see how much the Princes  adore  Cam.  If  Cam dies before  she  is Q, then you can make an opinion too.


PC ,no doubt wanted to marry  PD.Perfect   girl of the nobility  and one who agreeed.
YES, he wanted his heirs. Of course. He is heir and wanted his line to coninue.

We have debated this over and over.
it is what it is.

To me, though I do not live under her rule, Camilla WILL ALWAYS be The Rotweiller.

She and PC  represent to me, people  who have done wronged and are  rewarded  in abundance by fate (PD dying) , even God   for their wrong doing.

[Rebound]

Camilla will be Queen. 53% may approve. Doesn't mean I have to like it or approve.

I have a huge problem with C&C and how they undermined a marriage from the very beginning.

To me, it's like when something bad happens. I accept it, but I don't like it.

[Eri]

A lot of children see their parents marry their lovers nothing particular happens Will and Harry are not a special case ... frankly given that she and Chuck ( especially for Harry) are the only family they got I don't see why wish or project they dislike her ...