The Role of the British Monarchy, Popularity and Future discussion part 2

[Curryong]

Nobody in the world beats or are even close to the United Kingdom with its pomp and ceremony - Military too - the milestones, the celebrations, the special occasions, the remembrance, the poppy day, the opening of a new military fillintheblank, the MOD knows how to use their British Royals for PR and Marketing.

Yes, that?s certainly what the royals are supposedly their for. Milk the traditions and PR and marketing in the hope of bringing in tourists in great numbers. Funny how France and Italy who have had no royal family for over a hundred and fifty years in France?s case and well over seventy years in the case of Italy manage perfectly well tourism wise without them.

And most British people aren?t ecstatic about the pomp and ceremony attached to the royals, witness the outcry about costs for funerals, Coronations, weddings and the like. It?s people who don?t live there or pay taxes there that get all shiny-eyed about the monarchy.

[wannable]

Most British people are not anti monarchist. Spreading misinformation that most is false. They are a minority.

[Curryong]

Most British people are not anti monarchist. Spreading misinformation that most is false. They are a minority.

I did not say that most British people are anti monarchist. What I said in my post was that it is people who live outside Britain who get starry eyed about the monarchy. And that is the truth.

Most British are in fact ambivalent about the monarchy. They don?t bother about it much one way or the other.

[wannable]

I did not say that most British people are anti monarchist. What I said in my post was that it is people who live outside Britain who get starry eyed about the monarchy. And that is the truth.

Most British are in fact ambivalent about the monarchy. They don?t bother about it much one way or the other.

It' valid to change ones mind about what was said. I am just correcting, IF UK Citizens in its majority dislike pomp and ceremony it would be said and done.  The firm is way too careful with ''all'' they do  - to just ignore and do a Marie Antoinette. 

[wannable]

William, Catherine and Charles are above 70 % of approval in ref the job, role they are each doing.


Daily Mail U.K.
@DailyMailUK
Most Brits now say Harry should be stripped of his place as 5th in line to the throne and blocked from ever becoming King, new poll shows Most Brits now say Harry should be stripped of his place as 5th in line to the throne and blocked from ever becoming King, new poll shows | Daily Mail

[Curryong]

Never heard of Delta Poll and the fact that the Fail has commissioned this ?poll? makes it a hundred times more iffy. If it?s YouGov it?s reliable otherwise not, where I?m concerned.

[wannable]

It's a UK firm specialized in politics (According to the British Polling Council, top five reliability, the UK GOV website has published some of their findings from time to time - Both Tory and Labour govs).  This is their first royal survey. They are recommended in UK poll library (yougov is also listed)

[Curryong]

It' valid to change ones mind about what was said. I am just correcting, IF UK Citizens in its majority dislike pomp and ceremony it would be said and done.  The firm is way too careful with ''all'' they do  - to just ignore and do a Marie Antoinette.

?And most British people aren?t ecstatic about the pomp and ceremony attached to the royals, witness the outcry about costs for funerals, Coronations, weddings and the like. It?s people who don?t live there or pay taxes there that get all shiny-eyed about the monarchy.?

That is what I said, and it was the truth. With the last Coronation did every town, city and village in the UK do something big to commemorate the day? No they didn?t.

And I know from news from Britain from relatives and friends there that many people just treated it as a day off work and did their own thing.

They weren?t running around waving Union Jacks and worshipping Charles and Camilla or the rest of the royals. They might have watched some of the Coronation on TV and then went to the pub or out for the day with their families. The idea that all the British people absolutely adore all the BRF is a delusion held by foreigners. You obviously haven?t been out on the streets of any big urban centre in Britain  hearing citizens  criticising the royals for costing the British tax payer. I have.

[wannable]

That is misinforming, IF it were ''a majority'', the BRF would not have a coronation as such.  They did downgrade expenses which was widely reported, including the non use of tiaras or coronets by their own family and foreign royalty. The latest report about the coronation was the amount of millions - it is easy to track with the Treasury Department, which was also posted in the RIF.

[Curryong]

That is misinforming, IF it were ''most'', the BRF would not have a coronation as such.  They did downgrade expenses which was widely reported, including the non use of tiaras or coronets by their own family and foreign royalty.

The full costs of that Coronation published yet. Best to wait. I stated that most  British people aren?t ecstatic about pomp and ceremony. And they?re not. I was born there at a time when most were and were very deferential about the RF. Those days have gone. And go to any major urban centre in Britain and if the RF comes up in conversation (which it doesn?t that often)  you may hear some things that would change your mind, especially in London and cities in the North of England and in Scotland.

[Curryong]

It's a UK firm specialized in politics (According to the British Polling Council, top five reliability, the UK GOV website has published some of their findings from time to time - Both Tory and Labour govs).  This is their first royal survey. They are recommended in UK poll library (yougov is also listed)

This firm is a quite new polling firm, less than ten years old,  and do not specialise in royalty topics or in framing questions on them. YouGov does and has. And the fact that the Fail is linked to this make that poll very very questionable.

[wannable]

Again, IF a majority  or most are not estatic, the 1000+ year old firm will not do a Marie Antoinette. Underestimating the job of the firm in conjunction with the government as incompetent - who can't read the room - is ludicrous.

Polling firms questions are well studied before pulling it out there. Polling firm specialized in Politics should find it easier related to the Monarchy, which is not polarizing.

[Curryong]

Now we know how fabulously wealthy Charles is, why can?t he pay for his own coronation? | King Charles coronation | The Guardian

The reactions of people to the Coronation just before it was held meld in exactly with what I was hearing from relatives and friends in the UK. And on the other forum an Australian who was on a cruise with quite a lot of midfleaged and elderly Brits, exactly the sort of demographic you would think would be lapping up news of the Coronation said exactly the same thing. ?Don?t care, and let Charles pay for it. He?s got plenty of money!? Lots of yawning when the Coronation was mentioned. Not a great look for a new monarch, and if that demographic was disinterested you can guess what those 18 to 30 were thinking! 

[wannable]

The ''reactionary'' groups used for toppling or making a strong point that actually ''makes'' a change of direction did not happen. They are a minority that could not steer the ship.

Usually steering and making a majority change should happen between the point of doing it (article Sat 29 Apr 2023 08.00 BST) immediately within 12 hours and run it for a week - meaning people out in the streets and not leaving.

******

i.e. Macron and his retirement ''age'' working bill has been stalled. The reactionary groups have won a 'battle'' (not considered a war because it is 1 item the population disagreed with, not an entire institution - which would then be a war), this caused any foreign visit to stall, like KCIIII visit, which has been reprogrammed to happen very soon - Sept 2023.

*****

NOTE: For what it's worth, I personally read and respect minority group thoughts, but I give it also the 'proportion' they merit, I do not do a USA with giving a minority thought (s) a huge platform that is unpopular with a ''majority'', thus making a depressive state of affairs in every corner of the US to such an extent that a bit more of a 'spark' can bring something terrible to happen at this point in time.

[wannable]

Too late to edit and add, reading multiple financial and political French sources, the battle won vs the government plan to up the age retirement is very short term. The government have several fronts they have to smartly tackle with their French citizens and the illegal immigrants. 

To make a quick example these French experts have agreed upon, IF the UK 'lowered' its retirement age that France actually has, the UK would not survive a 'trimester'. That is how serious France is at the moment. The government has to be unified no matter of their partisan affiliation to fix the several 'fronts' they are facing, the illegal immigrants problem is being solved in France, but it throws the problem to the UK. Why? well the French does not have any bonuses for illegal immigrants (they had a heavy participation in the mini riot/reactionary groups), so the French did a marketing/PR telling them that in the UK they have a gazillion bonuses, from free housing, food, one year of half salaries, help to find jobs, etc. They are moving to Blighty.

[Curryong]

Too late to edit and add, reading multiple financial and political French sources, the battle won vs the government plan to up the age retirement is very short term. The government have several fronts they have to smartly tackle with their French citizens and the illegal immigrants. 

To make a quick example these French experts have agreed upon, IF the UK 'lowered' its retirement age that France actually has, the UK would not survive a 'trimester'. That is how serious France is at the moment. The government has to be unified no matter of their partisan affiliation to fix the several 'fronts' they are facing, the illegal immigrants problem is being solved in France, but it throws the problem to the UK. Why? well the French does not have any bonuses for illegal immigrants (they had a heavy participation in the mini riot/reactionary groups), so the French did a marketing/PR telling them that in the UK they have a gazillion bonuses, from free housing, food, one year of half salaries, help to find jobs, etc. They are moving to Blighty.

I don?t know what you mean by ?bonuses?, but the idea that the UK is some kind of paradise for illegal immigrants has been going on for twenty five years to my knowledge. And it hasn?t needed French input though I have no doubt that French officials discourage illegals in their country. People smugglers tell lies that people want to hear.

In reality the advice below is from British Govt pamphlets printed in many languages.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/risks-of-illegal-migration-to-the-uk#full-publication-update-history

(Note. Exceptions to the Illegal Immigration Act passed a couple of years ago are sometimes loosened in the cases of females escaping Afghanistan, Hong Kong residents and those from the Ukraine seeking entry.

?If you make it to the UK, the realities may be different to what you expect, for example:

Asylum seekers are only allowed to work in the UK if they have not had a decision on their claim for over 12 months. This must be through no fault of their own. If you are able to work, you can only do the jobs on the Shortage Occupation List.

It is a criminal offence to work in the UK without the right to do so. Migrants working illegally can be imprisoned for up to 6 months. Wages from working illegally can be seized as the proceeds of crime if someone knows or has reasonable cause to believe a person is working illegally.

If an employer is found to be employing someone illegally, the employer may be fined or face prosecution.
Only those with lawful immigration status can rent private accommodation. It is a criminal offence for landlords and agents to knowingly let property to an illegal migrant.

Migrants in the UK illegally are not able to access public funds. Those without lawful immigration status may also be charged if they require hospital treatment or secondary health care whilst in the UK. Outstanding payments for medical treatment can also result in further immigration applications being refused.

Other services, like bank accounts and driving licences are also restricted if you are in the UK illegally.? End quote.

People smugglers tell these illegal migrants otherwise.

[wannable]

https://www.gov.uk/asylum-support/what-youll-get

[Curryong]

https://www.gov.uk/asylum-support/what-youll-get

It is a very very long process to apply for asylum support and there is absolutely no guarantee that it will be approved when you do get to the front of the queue. That is not what people smugglers tell their ?clients?.

And many illegal migrants do not apply for any of the above, and instead get crowded unfit  accommodation and work for long hours with employers of their own race or similar,  and are completely exploited. There are tons of those cases that are publicised in British news outlets all the time.

The idea that illegal migrants automatically get to live in the lap of luxury if they manage to get to England is a myth, though some racist Britons prefer to swallow the cool aid and complain in the comments sections of the Fail and like tabloids about all the luxuries these people supposedly enjoy.

[wannable]

And yet the best freebie in the world!

The United Nations do not want the UK to implement ''offiially'' the illegal migration bill. Source: United Nations, date: July 2023

^ Transfering ilegals from mainland Europe (France example) to the UK is not a solution. None of the band aid solutions implemented by European countries have solved the problem, it only transfers it to a neighbour.

[wannable]

Cameron Walker
@CameronDLWalker

NEW: Prince William, Princess Anne and Princess Catherine are the top three royals that the British public have a positive opinion of, new @YouGov figures show. Almost a year into King Charles' reign, Prince Andrew, Prince Harry and Meghan Markle remain bottom of opinion polls.





A big boost for King Charles III too 👑
Most Britons think His Majesty is doing a good job as king (59%), compared to only 17% who say he is doing a bad job.

[TLLK]

I am not surprised that William and Catherine are in the top three of the most favorable royals. Thrilled for Anne that she is in the number 2 slot. The rest of the positions do not surprise me either.

The BRF do need to keep a watch on their younger generation if they wish to continue as a constitutional monarchy.

Just three in 10 young people think Royals good for Britain, YouGov poll finds

[Curryong]

I am not surprised that William and Catherine are in the top three of the most favorable royals. Thrilled for Anne that she is in the number 2 slot. The rest of the positions do not surprise me either.

The BRF do need to keep a watch on their younger generation if they wish to continue as a constitutional monarchy.

Just three in 10 young people think Royals good for Britain, YouGov poll finds

Stellar, I suppose, that the monarch romps in at fourth, with his Consort at the bottom of the working royals tally. The Diana effect, at least in part, working once again. As well as age and seeming eccentricities where Charles is concerned.

And once more, non working royals (but only the Sussexes and Andrew) are included in this list, with Sophie, and the Gloucesters and the Kents left off it. Why? And if non working royals are to be included appearently, why aren?t the York sisters present, and Lady Louise Edinburgh? 

Considering that Harry and Meghan?s favourability goes up with younger respondents and the bad publicity they constantly receive from the British media, their positions are hardly a surprise. Neither, at least to me, is the fact that more and more Britons under 30 don?t care about the monarchy. That figure has been sliding down for decades, masked by polling done at Jubilees and Royal Weddings.

[Curryong]

JAN MOIR: Since the Queen died, I've struggled to see what the point is of the Royal Family any more. Is that wrong? | Daily Mail Online

Me too, Jan Moir, me too. And this is probably the only time I?ve ever agreed with this woman.

?Since the Queen died, I've struggled to see what the point is of the Royal Family any more. Is that wrong?

Once this dignified, dutiful, much-loved matriarch left us for the great palace in the sky, she took the last drop of regal charisma with her, along with my devotion. All we are left with now is the well-meaning but essentially ho-hum next generation, the second tier on the crumbling cake, the monarchical subs' bench.?

After dinner, Charles made a speech about the significance of Britain working with France to tackle climate change and honouring the asparagus season mere hours after Rishi Sunak announced he was putting the brakes on Britain's financially ruinous ? not to say crazy ? rush to net-zero emissions.

There was further embarrassment when, in a historic address to the French parliament, the King called global warming an 'existential challenge' and called for a 'sustainability agreement' with France. Fine words, but after the British Government U-turned on green targets, Charles must have been feeling very green indeed. And this was more than just unfortunate timing, it perfectly emphasised increasing royal irrelevance.

And then, of course, there is Queen Camilla. What I am thinking is, do we really have to put the 76-year-old through all this torture?

Camilla trundled through Paris like a woman expecting to face a guillotine at the end of every day. She looked terrified most of the time, and when she wasn't looking terrified she was battling to keep her hat on, fighting to keep her hems down and avoiding being patronised by Madame Macron.

The First Lady of France fussed with Camilla's evening cape on Wednesday and then ? unforgivably ? made her play ping-pong during a cringeworthy publicity event yesterday. Camilla does her best, of course she does, but she always has the air of someone who ponged her ping a very long time ago. Someone who would always rather be somewhere else: preferably at home, feet up, ciggie lit, dog on lap, stiff gin to hand as she riffles through the latest issue of Horse & Hound.?

?Then Prince William appeared in front of an audience that included Bill Gates, UN climate envoy Mike Bloomberg and former New Zealand prime minister Jacinda Ardern ? or as I like to call them, people with nothing better to do.

They certainly must have wished they were on an earthshot the hell outta there when William began speaking.

'I think if we remark on how pessimistic and doom and gloom everything is, even though there is a healthy dose of that needed... it doesn't provoke the reaction from us humans that we would like,' he blithered.

Honestly. Who writes this banal guff for him?

Then he went to inspect some oyster beds ? don't ask me why.?

[TLLK]

The bickering posts have been removed. Please do not inquire as to why any member or guest chooses to participate in this forum. Thank you.

[TLLK]

The photo in this article made me laugh. It was quite clever of Republic's members to plan and quickly stage the photo. However there isn't the necessary space between the participants so it doesn't read "NOT MY KING" but  rather "NO TMYKING." :hehe:

Anti-monarchy group Republic sneak into Buckingham Palace to stage protest right under the nose of the royals | Daily Mail Online