IF not for Camilla could Charles & Di's marriage have survived?

Lucy · March 18, 2010, 04:17:32 AM

Quote from: drezzle on March 16, 2010, 12:08:29 PM
If Camilla only wanted to be a mistress, why didn't she allow potential wife-type material to be around Charles after Diana? Camilla methodically got rid of them one by one.

She did a 360 Degree turnabout after Andrew decided to leave her...

As to, Didn't she know how spirited the Spencer women were ?...I'm not sure.....but Lady Sarah was fairly mild and Diana was somewhat shy in the early years...and of course Cams didn't compile the short list alone, Kanga helped her.....

I believe after her divorce she may have decided she wasn't getting any younger and she wasn't going to let him slip away.....but I don't think he wanted to marry her by then....I believe it took some serious manipulations to get him to the altar a second time.

Kate · March 18, 2010, 10:24:33 AM

Well, I agree with you on this one , Lucy....
I had read somewhere, after the divorce, that Diana and Charles were together on a "family outting" with the boys and quite friendly , and someone had written in one of the books, that it was too bad they could not have worked things out as, they were quite respectful and kind to each other at this time and this function. I believe she was seeing Hasnat and in her own self, was happy and contented...

I also feel that the people who Charles called his friends, helped Camilla to where she is...They also saw him as a soft mark and could easily puff him up...

I also think the Tiggy was more along the lines of what Diana saw. I'm sure that he had second thoughts of marrying Camilla and partially because of any prospect of a relationship with Tiggy..
Camilla was an ace at getting rid of any potential rival and of course his (their ) friends backed her..

Lucy · March 18, 2010, 07:51:17 PM

VERY well expressed, Kate. Even she and Michael Fawcett are exceedingly close....the person said to be even more non-negotiable than she. he helped her refurbish Birkhall, Castle of Mey and CH....and joined the two on their honeymoon and travels with Chas to the all male monastery....She is creidted with helping to keep MF on staff after the Queen, via Sir M. Peat wanted him sacked

All of Chas older set of mates do rally round her just as you noted....there was a brief tiff with the van Cutsems but they all kissed and made up. :)

Lady63 · March 18, 2010, 09:14:40 PM

Maybe if Diana's sons had put more of a fight up for keeping Camilla out of the fold instead of giving in and accepting that what happend to their mother was okay, maybe Camilla would not be where she is today.

Regards,
Lady63

Ursula · March 18, 2010, 09:16:46 PM

Quote from: Kate on March 18, 2010, 10:24:33 AM
Well, I agree with you on this one , Lucy....
I had read somewhere, after the divorce, that Diana and Charles were together on a "family outting" with the boys and quite friendly , and someone had written in one of the books, that it was too bad they could not have worked things out as, they were quite respectful and kind to each other at this time and this function. I believe she was seeing Hasnat and in her own self, was happy and contented...

I also feel that the people who Charles called his friends, helped Camilla to where she is...They also saw him as a soft mark and could easily puff him up...

I also think the Tiggy was more along the lines of what Diana saw. I'm sure that he had second thoughts of marrying Camilla and partially because of any prospect of a relationship with Tiggy..
Camilla was an ace at getting rid of any potential rival and of course his (their ) friends backed her..

Kate I totally agree about Charles being a "soft mark." I think as difficult as he may be to deal with, he's easy to manipulate once you have the buttons worked out. ;)

Also, given that we can't bring Diana back, I wish he had married Tiggy instead of the current Mrs. I think she had a real bond with the boys and she would have had their best interest at heart. Even more so than their own father, I'm sorry to say.

Quote from: Lady63 on March 18, 2010, 09:14:40 PM
Maybe if Diana's sons had put more of a fight up for keeping Camilla out of the fold instead of giving in and accepting that what happend to their mother was okay, maybe Camilla would not be where she is today.

Regards,
Lady63

How I wish they had put up a fight, but I don't blame them for accepting her publicly. (Privately, I'm not so sure.) Their father didn't give them much of a choice. And I imagine he complains to them about not being understood and that just adds more guilt to the formula.

sandy · March 19, 2010, 12:15:14 AM

I think Charles didn't treat Tiggy at all well. She was obviously very happy in his presence and he publicly would grab her and kiss her. They could have been intimate but even if they weren't I think Charles behaved inappropriately with her (she was after all his sons' nanny not a surrogate wife). I don't think he had any intention of marrying her, not with Camlla around. I think he used her. She was great with Harry after Diana died but CHarles had her fired because Camlla didn't want her around.

Lady63 · March 19, 2010, 02:37:17 AM

Agreed Sandy, but I think he was demostrive with Tiggy to annoy Diana more than anything else. Charles knew that Diana valued above all else, being a mother and what a way of hurting her than to cozy up to a woman who was on extremely friendly terms with his son's and was around Diana's age. To me, that's speaks volumns about just how nasty Charles was Diana. Imho Charles is not a very nice man even if he is polite and jovial in public, I think there is quite a horrible side to him that only a few have seen and I think he really showed Diana his dark side.

Regards,
Lady63

sandy · March 19, 2010, 01:38:45 PM

Bradford wrote that in public Charles treated her horribly but he tried to mask it. On a tour in Germany the press wrote about how it was so charming of Charles to offer Diana a chocolate candy. However, Bradford wrote this was cruel of Charles since this was the period that Diana described as her having "raging bulimia." I don't think Charles is a nice man at all.

Trudie · March 19, 2010, 01:39:08 PM

If I remember on many occasions when Charles had the boys he would just leave them with Tiggy to do whatever it is he wanted and Diana told him she would be more than happy to have the boys herself if couldn't be with the boys. Lady 63 you are correct but this was not just to hurt Diana it was to wound her to her very core. Charles was not just nasty but seemed intent to push her buttons to lash out and as she said to label her as a mad basket case who should be in a home of some sort.

I can't say anything bad about Tiggy however she put the boys and their needs first and was the first to arrive upon Diana's death to provide the love and comfort they needed and stayed as long as she was needed. It was Camilla however that insisted that Tiggy go. It speaks volumes that Tiggy is still a big part of Harry's life attending his graduations and her inviting him to be a godfather to her son. Tiggy unlike Camilla appears to fill the void of having a motherly presence to give him advise. IMO.

Kate · March 19, 2010, 01:56:51 PM

"Also, given that we can't bring Diana back, I wish he had married Tiggy instead of the current Mrs. I think she had a real bond with the boys and she would have had their best interest at heart. Even more so than their own father, I'm sorry to say. " (Quote)..Ursula

So do I... She would have been exciting ...Those photos of her and Charles kidding about, looked as if they were having fun (Wish it had been Diana he was kidding with, too)..
and Charles would not have lost the entire support of the people IMO... The boys did/do love her and it would have been easier to swallow, seeing her in photos with Charles other then Camilla..

"Imho Charles is not a very nice man even if he is polite and jovial in public, I think there is quite a horrible side to him that only a few have seen and I think he really showed Diana his dark side."

Regards,Lady63(Quote)

I don't believe he is a nice man either....and he certainly does have this other side of him, throwing things, stomping his foot, ignoring people, using his sons for his own gain - publicity wise....to name a very few... Right on , Lady63

sandy · March 19, 2010, 01:59:06 PM

I think Tiggy is better off without Charles being her husband. With his mean streak, I think he'd have made her miserable. Tiggy served Charles' agenda for a time and like Kanga and Diana was OUT when he was finished with her. I think she'd have made a better match with Prince Andrew though.

Ursula · March 19, 2010, 09:05:10 PM

No doubt she is better off without him, I just think the boys would be better off with HER, given the circumstances.

amabel · March 25, 2010, 12:04:04 PM

Quote from: Lucy on March 16, 2010, 04:31:57 AM
Camilla is quoted in her biography saying that Charles proposed to her several times before he shipped out.....but she refused him because she had finally landed A PB.A

this is not the first time I've read something like this on this forum, but I'd be interested to know where it comes from. I don't know of any bios of Camilla apart from one by Caroline Graham...and whil I don't remember it very well, I don't think that there was any mentin of Charles proposing to her. I don't think that he did...what bio is it in?

sandy · March 25, 2010, 01:55:43 PM

I read that Charles never proposed to Camilla when she was single way back when. He didn't tell Dimbleby this in any case. One writer reported that a friend of Camila told her that Camilla WOULD have accepted Charles' proposal had he proposed to her. Supposedly though Camilla had her heart set on APB and while he was having his affair with Anne she "retaliated" by bedding Charles. Supposedly APB was proud of her conquest rather than shocked (according to Camilla's biographer). Charles considered Camilla mistress material back then and did not propose to her according to most accounts of his life.

Kate · March 25, 2010, 02:05:04 PM

I don't know if I believe that Charles asked Camilla several times, to marry him. Lord Mountbatten was still alive and giving advice to Charles... He would have NOT gone against the advice, if it were true that Lord Mountbatten pointed out that Camilla was mistress material only...Lord Mountbatten would have pointed out just how used Camilla was at the time and Not a virginal type which would be required ... :sigh:

sandy · March 25, 2010, 02:07:17 PM

Lord Mountbatten had control of Charles and at that time was more influential than Camilla (it was only after Camilla got married and ca. the mid seventies that she started to become more of a "mentor" and manipulator of Prince Charles--and after Mountbatten died she took over. Mountbatten to emphasize that she was "mistresss material" gave C and C a bedroom at Broadlands for secret weekend romps while he dated "suitable" women and Mountbatten had high hopes for Charles to marry his virginal granddaughter.

Hale · March 25, 2010, 03:47:13 PM

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