Engagement, Marriage, Divorce of Diana and Charles (Thread from 2020 onward)

[TLLK]

The place (and only place, please) to post articles and discuss the history of the Wales' engagement, marriage, separation and divorce.  Have fun and please be respectful of others opinions.

Royal Pictures from History: the engagement of Charles and Diana ? Royal Central

As a future king, his wedding was always going to be big news. For years, Prince Charles had been the subject of chatter about who and when he would marry and when he did announce his engagement to Lady Diana Spencer, on February 24th 1981, it made headlines around the world. The moment the couple appeared before the cameras for the first time as bride and groom to be captured imaginations with one part of the press call producing a very famous image indeed. In this occasional series, Royal Central takes a look at some of the most well known royal pictures of all.

Okay who remembers this day from 1981?
I was a senior in high school and was leaving the house to drive to school with my sister when my mother shared the news.
Double post auto-merged: February 24, 2020, 11:11:37 PM

BBC ON THIS DAY | 24 | 1981: Prince Charles and Lady Di to marry

[Curryong]

Yes, I remember them walking together arm in arm on the lawn. Diana's suit and pussycat bow blouse was chosen by her mother as being suitable for the occasion, and looked like it (chosen by a woman in her forties!) Certainly not the usual sort of outfit any nineteen year old would have worn by choice.

I believe Diana later said that she thought the suit didn't flatter her as it showed up her baby fat. Charles apparently affectionately pinched her on the waist and said something like 'Still a bit pudgy there' setting off all kinds of insecurities about her waistline.

I also remember the short standing interview of that same day which included Charles's notorious, often pointed to comment 'Whatever loves means..!'

[TLLK]

"Baby fat" she hardly had any IMHO. While the suit was a bit mature IMO, the color was absolutely gorgeous and so flattering on her.

[Curryong]

I loved Diana's round and rosy little face in her engagement/first married years, and felt that older Diana look, the rather bony, sleek greyhound appearance, while wonderful for wearing all sorts of clothing, was in some part indicative of the huge stress she was under in her later years. Diana looked like a little peach at her engagement photoshoot and not at all plump, but it was HER perception that she was indeed overweight that set her off on binge eating during her engagement, apparently.

[sandy]

Diana wore a variation of the engagement suit a few years later.

diana in blue suit - Google Search

[TLLK]

Great photo find @sandy. Diana looked stunning in cobalt.

[LouisFerdinand]

Here is a video of the engagement without the narration.     
THE ENGAGEMENT OF THE PRINCE OF WALES AND LADY DIANA SPENCER - NO SOUND - COLOUR - YouTube

[Princess Cassandra]

Diana wore a variation of the engagement suit a few years later.

diana in blue suit - Google Search

She was so beautiful, and made whatever she wore look good. Much was later said about the matronly look of this suit, and in retrospect I suppose it was, but she made the suit look good. And of course, almost any color looked good on her. Now she has four grandchildren!

[LouisFerdinand]

What do you think of Prince Charles proposing to Lady Diana at Clarence House? Or perhaps at his grandmother's Castle of Mey?   
   

:vday2: :wub: :vday2: :wub: :vday2: :wub: :vday2: :wub: :vday2: :wub:

[Curryong]

What do you think of Prince Charles proposing to Lady Diana at Clarence House? Or perhaps at his grandmother's Castle of Mey?   
   

:vday2: :wub: :vday2: :wub: :vday2: :wub: :vday2: :wub: :vday2: :wub:

Why on earth would he have proposed at either of those locations? Diana had a job at the London nursery and as a part time nanny for an American family at that time. She didn't have time to go scooting off here there and everywhere. She had a life with her friends.

Why would she agree to go up to the north of Scotland to a remote castle, a place where the QM loved to go and fish? Diana wasn't into Scottish country sports. Windsor Castle was the place where the proposal happened and that was convenient to Charles and semi-so for Diana, but of course Charles's wants were uppermost.

[TLLK]

Wasn't Charles living at BP when he proposed to Lady Diana Spencer? Clarence House was occupied by his maternal grandmother.

[Curryong]

Correct on both counts, TLLK. There was no need for Charles to propose at Clarence House, either. Like Castle Mey it was his grandmother's home. He probably proposed at Windsor because it is a discreet and private place and not occupied by  family members unlike BP.

[QueenAlex]

i don't know how one could think of his doing this, since he did NOT propose at either location.  It didn't happen.  I had thought that Charles did propose at Cam's house, perhaps he made a sort of pre proposal suggestion when Diana was (as she often was) staying with Camilla, during their courtship.  But on reflection, I understand that he proposed In his apartments at Windsor..Probably because Diana was being chased around London, during her courtship with him so he watned it to be somewhere that they were relatively unlikey to be bothered by some press hound trying to get  a shot of her...
Double post auto-merged: March 04, 2020, 11:06:46 AM

Wasn't Charles living at BP when he proposed to Lady Diana Spencer? Clarence House was occupied by his maternal grandmother.

Yes  he had an apartment in BP at the time and moved to an apartment in Kensington P when he married. And he had Highgrove but at the time he was havng it decorated so he was camping there at weekends.. so Diana often visited and stayed at Cam's house...

[sandy]

I think Charles proposing to Diana in Camilla's garden is myth. Though I understand he was telling her that he wanted her to help decorate Highgrove and she refused. This may have been his way of leading up to a proposal down the road but she refused. She got a call from him while he was away and told her he had a question to ask her, later she went to Windsor and he proposed to her over a candlelit dinner in the old  Windsor nursery. He told his mother and later Earl Spencer about the proposal, by phone.

[Princess Cassandra]

I think Charles proposing to Diana in Camilla's garden is myth. Though I understand he was telling her that he wanted her to help decorate Highgrove and she refused. This may have been his way of leading up to a proposal down the road but she refused. She got a call from him while he was away and told her he had a question to ask her, later she went to Windsor and he proposed to her over a candlelit dinner in the old  Windsor nursery. He told his mother and later Earl Spencer about the proposal, by phone.

Thanks for posting that, Sandy. It's good to know. I was going to say that she did go up to Balmoral, but it was at the beginning of their relationship, so he wouldn't have proposed then. As I recall she was sort of hiding behind a tree while he was fishing, because the press were already hounding. Isn't it amazing they still haven't stopped!

[QueenAlex]

I think things should be seen with her marriage in mind. It was complicated.

IMO, if the marriage had been good she wouldn't have minded being in Balmoral for a couple of weeks.

One of the reasons that the marriage was difficult was that she DIDNT like the upper class rituals of spending a lot of time in the coutntry and the country sports which her husband and much of his family loved.   She DID mind being at Balmoral, it was for quite a few weeks every year, during the Shooting season.. then visiting the queen at Christmas and Easter.. having Charles shooting and Hunting at Highgrove many weekends.  She didn't liek that at all... and the queens' attitude at the time was that incomers to the family had to turn up in Balmoral each August and spend a few weeks and Diana disliked it and grew to dislike it more and more . If her objections to the coutntry were to do with her marriage, she might well have gotten at least a country cottage, after the marriage ended..but she didn't becauase she did not enjoy that sort of life at all.  She thought of renting a house for a while but that was to give the boys somewhere to shoot etc at weekends.. and when her first choice fell through she seems to have dropped the idea completely.  In her later years, she was away on sunshine holidays in August, not in the country.   She took the boys abroad, rather than find somewhere in England...

[LouisFerdinand]

It was nice how Princess Diana put her sons' interests first.

[QueenAlex]

It was nice how Princess Diana put her sons' interests first.

You mean she wanted to have a place for them to go shooting?

[oak_and_cedar]

One of the reasons that the marriage was difficult was that she DIDNT like the upper class rituals of spending a lot of time in the coutntry and the country sports which her husband and much of his family loved.   She DID mind being at Balmoral, it was for quite a few weeks every year, during the Shooting season.. then visiting the queen at Christmas and Easter.. having Charles shooting and Hunting at Highgrove many weekends.  She didn't liek that at all... and the queens' attitude at the time was that incomers to the family had to turn up in Balmoral each August and spend a few weeks and Diana disliked it and grew to dislike it more and more . If her objections to the coutntry were to do with her marriage, she might well have gotten at least a country cottage, after the marriage ended..but she didn't becauase she did not enjoy that sort of life at all.  She thought of renting a house for a while but that was to give the boys somewhere to shoot etc at weekends.. and when her first choice fell through she seems to have dropped the idea completely.  In her later years, she was away on sunshine holidays in August, not in the country.   She took the boys abroad, rather than find somewhere in England...

I think the RF spends about six weeks at Balmoral? Diana went there every year, if I'm not mistaken, until her separation. So whether she liked it or not, she did her 'part' as a wife and daughter in law. There are many, many married couples whose in-laws' interests don't necessarily appeal to the spouse. Nonetheless they make an effort to participate in one way or another. Diana did just that.

Country houses are expensive. If she was only going to go visit the country for a few times a year she might as well have stayed with friends. Which she did iirc.

Diana also knew that her sons had access to Balmoral and Sandringham for their country pursuits. It was not irrational on her behalf to complement that lifestyle with offering them vacations to sunny places.

[LouisFerdinand]

You mean she wanted to have a place for them to go shooting?

@QueenAlex, I meant that Diana wanted her sons to see the interests that average boys (those who are not royal) would have. She took the Princes to amusement parks and restaurants.

[QueenAlex]

   
@QueenAlex, I meant that Diana wanted her sons to see the interests that average boys (those who are not royal) would have. She took the Princes to amusement parks and restaurants.

Im not sure what that has to do wiht her taking a house so they coudl have their country sports
Double post auto-merged: June 27, 2020, 06:57:02 AM

I think the RF spends about six weeks at Balmoral? Diana went there every year, if I'm not mistaken, until her separation. So whether she liked it or not, she did her 'part' as a wife and daughter in law. There are many, many married couples whose in-laws' interests don't necessarily appeal to the spouse. Nonetheless they make an effort to participate in one way or another. Diana did just that.

Country houses are expensive. If she was only going to go visit the country for a few times a year she might as well have stayed with friends. Which she did iirc.

Diana also knew that her sons had access to Balmoral and Sandringham for their country pursuits. It was not irrational on her behalf to complement that lifestyle with offering them vacations to sunny places.

But the point was, she didn't like country life, or sports.  She was a rich woman, do you think she could not have rented a country cottage for weekends and holidays without worrying about the cost?  She did consider taking one at Althorp because the boys got a bit itchy during their weekends and times with her, if they were stuck in her London apartment.. I don't know of her staying with country based friends...
She didn't like Balmoral or the country life that much of the RF including Charles and the queen positively love... In time I think she grew to really hate it and only went because she was obliged to as Charles' wife.  She barely tolerated the times at Balmoral as time progressed and she got more restless.  As I've said, when obliged to go to Highgrove at weekends, to take the boys there, she was bored stiff and unhappy and spent the time on the phone...

She really didn't like something that is very much part of the RF's life, particularly Charles, and only just tolerated it... Since she had little in common with Charles as it was, it meant that she and he were more and more at odds.

[Curryong]

Why write about Diana disliking country life as if somehow it was a sort of congenital fault or deliberate choice not to like it to upset Charles and his family? She didn't like Balmoral or country life in general, particularly. So what? Charles didn't particularly like places his wife loved either. Apparently though, Charles isn't to be blamed for that!

Sandringham and Balmoral arent some Holy Grails or Temples of the Gods! If Diana didn't like being there then she didn't like it. Queen Mary apparently hated it up there as well. Neither she nor Queen Alexandra, nor for that matter the QM except for fly fishing, took part in country sports or in Mary's case, rode ponies through the rain, the heather and the midges.

Margaret was bored with life in Balmoral and spent most of the time in her room listening to the radio and putting photos in albums. Some people are urbanites like Margaret and Diana, some are country bods like Charles. Neither are to blame for liking one or the other. The Wales marriage ran onto the rocks due to many things besides Diana not liking (how DARE she) what Charles happened to love.

[QueenAlex]

If you marry into a family which has a big big big tradition of spending a lot of time in the country, and you don't like it, (in fact IMO she grew to hate it..) then you are setting yourself up for a lot of boredom and misery.  At the time, the queen expected in laws to turn up and participate in the whole experience or at least to stay at Balmoral and do their best to enjoy the house party.   Diana had spent quite  bit of her courtship with Charles watching him fish and shoot, she knew what the RF are like, so didn't she realise that this was going to be a big part of her life from now on?  Why impose that on yourself if you don't have to? I don't blame Charles for thinking that his wife enjoyed country life, she had  IMO given that impression when they were courting.. but it seems to have abruptly stopped during their Balmoral honeymoon.  And I think that that was partly due to Di's bulimia and partly due to her suddenly realising that this was what she had let herself in for and she really didn't like it... but wasn't' able to amuse herself all that well when Charles did go out to do his country sports.

I think that yes there were many reasons for the failure of the marriage but a big one was a laick of a common outlook, Diana being very young for her age and Charles being old for his.. and a lack of common interests.

[Curryong]

Well, Alexandra, Mary and Margaret seem to have not got the memo that you HAVE to participate in country sports and the incessant rain, etc, and ENJOY it, OR ELSE! So that dislike wasn't just solely Diana!

Perhaps the Queen could have pulled her mindset away from circa 1930, GOD FORBID I know it would have been sooo difficult, and not expected and insisted on relatives, including her sister, and her daughter in law enjoying the 'pleasures' of stalking stags, catching fish on the ends of hooks and shooting grouse out of the sky, and the talk about it thereafter. Instead just invite them to participate in the way the Swedish and Danish RFs get together in one country home and enjoy themselves then and nowadays.

[QueenAlex]

Well, Alexandra, Mary and Margaret seem to have not got the memo that you HAVE to participate in country sports and the incessant rain, etc, and ENJOY it, OR ELSE! So that dislike wasn't just solely Diana!

Perhaps the Queen could have pulled her mindset away from circa 1930, GOD FORBID I know it would have been sooo difficult, and not expected and insisted on relatives, including her sister, and her daughter in law enjoying the 'pleasures' of stalking stags, catching fish on the ends of hooks and shooting grouse out of the sky, and the talk about it thereafter. Instead just invite them to participate in the way the Swedish and Danish RFs get together in one country home and enjoy themselves then and nowadays.

But that's the Queen and the RF of the time Diana married into them.  The other princesses and queens may have been bored but they put up with it..
Diana seems to have shown interest during her courtship and then abruptly stopped after her marriage.  SO I'm sure some royals felt that she had done it till she got the ring on her finger and had then stopped and fretted about Charles doing it.
And it was Diana who suffered.   She was expected to turn up and make the best of things so she did it for years and years, and got more and more hostile I think to the country... so again, why put yourself in for that if you don't have to?
Nowadays the Queen is more lenient and younger royals aren't expected to turn up in the same way.. and yet I've seen people complaining that Kate "wasn't there for the walk to Church at Christmas and its part of hr duty to be seen at that time.."