Thread dedicated to the quarterly and annual engagements tally for the British Royal Family[/font][/u][/b] :crown:
(Technically it is not mid year on the calendar, but with the QEII often on hiatus during August and much of September this seemed like a fitting "mid year" point.) :Jen:
(Numbers are gathered from the ongoing tally based upon the Court Circular which is compiled by a member from the big discussion board.) :)
From January 1, 2019 through May 23, 2019 here is the tally. Working members are in order of the line of succession with their spouses and at the end I've included the retired DoE, along with Princess Eugenie and Prince Michael of Kent who do not have a full time role but do the occasional engagement on behalf of the monarch.)
QEII-101, PoW-257, DssoC-134, DoCam-102, DssoCam-53, DoS-68, DssoS-35, DoY-135, EoW-124, CoW-96, PR-214, CTL-13, DoG-70, DssoG-30, DoK-86, PA-25. Retired or not a working member-DoE-2, PE-3, PMK-2.
Charles and Anne are in the 200's. Andrew, Camilla, Edward, William and QEII are in the 100's with the rest of the family in double digits at this sort of "mid-year" point. Focus IMO still is on those born into the BRF (in Italics) having a greater number with their spouses in a supporting role. The highest numbers are still concentrated with QEII and the DoE's children having the greatest number of engagements. Personally, I believe this is what QEII wants during her reign.
June is always a busier month with the annual Garter Service, Trooping the Color, Royal Ascot. Also there is the upcoming Spring State Visit but surprisingly no mention yet of a Fall State Visit. I do wonder if government declined to issue an invitation for the fall due to the ongoing Brexit negotiations? There is also the Seventy-Fifth D Day landings anniversary which will see royal participation with QEII present as the UK's HoS. Of course the family will continue with their ongoing domestic and foreign visits on behalf of the monarch and government as well as visits to their charities and patronages.
TLLK, This is great! Thank you! :goodpost:
Thanks
@Blue Clover. Looking forward to a busy June with the BRF and throughout the rest of the year for 2019.
Thanks TLLK for your time and efforts in researching! This is my favorite time of year, especially when there is a state visit! Many of the visits in the stats are not covered by the press; for example, the Gloucester and Sussex engagements. How I wish they were!
Coming up to the end of the ninth month of the year so we're more or less three quarters of the way through 2019.
(Numbers are gathered from the ongoing tally based upon the Court Circular which is compiled by a member from the big discussion board.)
From Jan. 1, 2019-Sept. 26, 2019: QEII-195, PoW-390, DssoC-185, DoCam-142, DssoCam-77, DoS-123, DssoCamS-51, DoY-250, EoW-230, CoW-166, PR-369, TL-20, DoG-148, DssoG-53, DoK-160 and PA-55.
Most BRF engagements wrap up in the first three weeks of December so that would be the end of the year just before Christmas.
Quote from: TLLK on May 28, 2019, 04:14:39 PM
(Technically it is not mid year on the calendar, but with the QEII often on hiatus during August and much of September this seemed like a fitting "mid year" point.) :Jen:
(Numbers are gathered from the ongoing tally based upon the Court Circular which is compiled by a member from the big discussion board.) :)
From January 1, 2019 through May 23, 2019 here is the tally. Working members are in order of the line of succession with their spouses and at the end I've included the retired DoE, along with Princess Eugenie and Prince Michael of Kent who do not have a full time role but do the occasional engagement on behalf of the monarch.)
QEII-101, PoW-257, DssoC-134, DoCam-102, DssoCam-53, DoS-68, DssoS-35, DoY-135, EoW-124, CoW-96, PR-214, CTL-13, DoG-70, DssoG-30, DoK-86, PA-25. Retired or not a working member-DoE-2, PE-3, PMK-2.
Charles and Anne are in the 200's. Andrew, Camilla, Edward, William and QEII are in the 100's with the rest of the family in double digits at this sort of "mid-year" point. Focus IMO still is on those born into the BRF (in Italics) having a greater number with their spouses in a supporting role. The highest numbers are still concentrated with QEII and the DoE's children having the greatest number of engagements. Personally, I believe this is what QEII wants during her reign.
June is always a busier month with the annual Garter Service, Trooping the Color, Royal Ascot. Also there is the upcoming Spring State Visit but surprisingly no mention yet of a Fall State Visit. I do wonder if government declined to issue an invitation for the fall due to the ongoing Brexit negotiations? There is also the Seventy-Fifth D Day landings anniversary which will see royal participation with QEII present as the UK's HoS. Of course the family will continue with their ongoing domestic and foreign visits on behalf of the monarch and government as well as visits to their charities and patronages.
I don't think the Queen has rules that the spouses don't work as much. A supporting role should include work not a lack of it IMO. That is not in the least Support as far as I'm concerned.
THe Duchess of Cornwall has had issues with humid and hot conditions and does not stay for tours and she never had really high numbers. She is in her early seventies and has not had the lifetime of work as a royal that Charles has had.
The Duchess of Cambridge always tended to have low work numbers even before the children came along. I don't think the Queen"told her" not to work as much to "support" her husband. The Queen's husband did work hard as a consort, he was not "born into" the immediate family.
I think it is more what Kate wants or does not want to do. I can't see the queen ordering Kate not to work to give support. Kate will someday be Queen Consort and I don't think the Queen should be "credited" with keeping her from working more.
Princess Anne IMO had not "requirement" to do all that work. It was her choice and she has remained active.
I still contend that this is not comparing apples to apples. Some royals spend more time on research, preparation, and building their organizations and projects than others. The Prince of Wales does it all and is in a place of his own; not only does he have a lot of engagements, but he also does tons of research and preparation and is constantly developing new projects.
It was always known from the get go that Camilla would not have the high numbers. Lately she has had to leave tours because of her discomfort in sunny and humid places. It was highly doubtful that she could keep the same pace as Prince Charles. Charles remarried someone slightly older not a young woman who would do more work.
I think Charles does research and work and does not sail along on being told he "works behind the scenes." I think the Cambridges who are the future of the monarchy and are not kids anymore should be doing more.
Good point
@Princess Cassandra. Taking into consideration that QEII, her cousins and her children have dozens or even hundreds of patronages/charities and military appointments gathered over the decades, it would be reasonable to expect that they have more engagements with those organizations throughout the year. By contrast QEII's grandchildren have far less. More patronages=more engagements per year. :nod:
William and Harry and their wives are the only ones expected to do a full plate. Not all her grandchildren. Peter and Zara have relatively private lives. It is doubtful James and Louise will be given any work loads. And Charles does not want Bea and Eugenie to be in the scaled down monarchy.
Since Camilla may as the years go by scale down even more, the grandchildren would need to take up the slack. It is important especially for Kate and William to take on more work.
@sandy-Peter, Zara, Beatrice and Eugenie are not part of the working royals who represent QEIi. Why would you bring them into the discussion as I didn't include them in my ninth month tally? :blank:
Double post auto-merged: September 29, 2019, 09:57:04 PM
QEII's grandchildren have been increasing their number of patronages and charities since becoming full time royals and are continuing to represent the monarch and the government on domestic and foreign engagements.
Quote from: Princess Cassandra on September 29, 2019, 09:34:08 PM
I still contend that this is not comparing apples to apples. Some royals spend more time on research, preparation, and building their organizations and projects than others. The Prince of Wales does it all and is in a place of his own; not only does he have a lot of engagements, but he also does tons of research and preparation and is constantly developing new projects.
Actually, although Charles does read a lot (though not tabloid newspapers) he doesn't do the research and development of projects and schemes himself. He has a large team of staffers and aides at CH who do it.
Bios on Charles are replete with stories of his ringing his staff in the middle of the night and on days off etc, asking how much they have done on various projects. He's a hard worker but research etc. No!
Charles has often asked for advice from"gurus" over the years about his various projects.
Quote from: TLLK on September 29, 2019, 09:54:23 PM
@sandy-Peter, Zara, Beatrice and Eugenie are not part of the working royals who represent QEIi. Why would you bring them into the discussion as I didn't include them in my ninth month tally? :blank:
Double post auto-merged: September 29, 2019, 09:57:04 PM
QEII's grandchildren have been increasing their number of patronages and charities since becoming full time royals and are continuing to represent the monarch and the government on domestic and foreign engagements.
Because you mentioned the Queen's Grandchildren. I pointed out that WIll and Harry would be the ones expected to work.
@sandy-But I didn't include them in the tally numbers because they are not part of the working royals and never have been. Why would you think that I included non-working members in a thread devoted to those who undertake official duties. :blank:
I am truly puzzled.
Oh well. As the year goes on we will see more overseas visits and yours along with the usual domestic visits and national events like Remembrance Day. I don't believe that another state visit will occur due to Brexit deadline approaching.
I mentioned why in prior post. It also to me illustrates the need for the two Princes to step up since none of the cousins have been designated to do royal work.
Quote from: Curryong on September 29, 2019, 10:05:34 PM
Actually, although Charles does read a lot (though not tabloid newspapers) he doesn't do the research and development of projects and schemes himself. He has a large team of staffers and aides at CH who do it.
Bios on Charles are replete with stories of his ringing his staff in the middle of the night and on days off etc, asking how much they have done on various projects. He's a hard worker but research etc. No!
Also the various military units, charities and patronages determine what type of event they'd like their royal patrons to attend: meeting, gala fundraiser, sporting match, regimental dinner, workshop etc...and then work with the royals' individual offices/secretaries to schedule their event. So there is a great deal of planning, preparation and coordination that is happening months in advance of the event. Obviously annual events will typically occur around the same time of year: ie Wimbledon tournament or Christmas Carol Concert.
Do you think Prince Charles calls his staff on Sundays to inquire about their progress on projects?
Yes. Charles does not research his projects and/or new causes himself. That's made perfectly clear in new bios on him, and in articles over the years. He calls his staff any days and evenings when they are off duty if he's been musing about something to do with his work and wants answers. Saturdays, Sundays, makes no difference.
Quote from: TLLK on September 29, 2019, 09:42:44 PM
Good point @Princess Cassandra. Taking into consideration that QEII, her cousins and her children have dozens or even hundreds of patronages/charities and military appointments gathered over the decades, it would be reasonable to expect that they have more engagements with those organizations throughout the year. By contrast QEII's grandchildren have far less. More patronages=more engagements per year. :nod:
Yes, plus the Cambridge and Sussex couples are taking an active and directive role in the development of their respective foundations and projects. They have staff, of course, but it is well known that they are all very involved and knowledgeable in their charities.
Double post auto-merged: October 01, 2019, 04:20:09 AM
Quote from: LouisFerdinand on September 30, 2019, 11:59:30 PM
Do you think Prince Charles calls his staff on Sundays to inquire about their progress on projects?
I have heard that he does. However, it is a fact that he works deep into the night on reading and paperwork for his projects. And he initiates so many and still has ideas for more.
Here is the an end of the year summary based upon the one at the big royal forum. While Tim O'Donovan's is the most publicized one, there are other people who keep their own tallies so their numbers might not necessarily match O'Donovan's. This person uses the Court Circular for their information.
For 2019- From QEII-PssA
QEII-293, PoW-544 (added today's engagement), DssoC-248, DoC-240, DssoCam-130, DoS-162, DssoS-65 (maternity leave year), DoY-300, EoW-319, CoW-250, PssR-517, TL-50, DoG-230, DssoG-83, DoK-209, PssA-63.
The Gert's royals tally which is counted differently than Mr. O'Donovan's or the one at TRF. This is just for the Cambridges and Sussexes.
Gert's Royals: Annual Tally of Engagements for William, Kate, Harry & Meghan (https://gertsroyals.blogspot.com/2018/12/annual-tally-of-engagements-for-william.html)
QuoteHow I Keep Count of Engagements
Contrary to popular belief, there is NO official count released by the Palace and NO official rules on how exactly engagements on the Court Circular (CC) should be counted.
My count will be different than other people's. I do include somethings not on the CC, but since I don't "double count" engagements, my count is often lower than others.
How you count an engagement is probably the biggest reason people have different counts. (And is also why a number of news sites have switched to counting the number of days worked instead.)
William-188, Catherine-120, Harry-121, Meghan-54.
Apologies as I realized I'd looked at the wrong tally table for Meghan's numbers according to Gerts' Royals tally. That should be 71 for her this year.
I've just realised, it's nearly the end of the year and I haven't seen Mr O' Donavon's engagement tally for the Royal year. Have I missed it? Is it due out on Tuesday, or what?
Mr. O'Domovan's tally has not been released yet. Perhaps it will be here early next week.
Thanks TLLK. I enjoy seeing Mr O'Donavon's yearly tally each December. He might not be doing it for too much longer.
It's always fun to see Mr. O'Donavon's royal tally.
Prince Charles emerges as hardest-working royal of 2019 (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2019/12/30/prince-charles-emerges-hardest-working-royal-2019/)
Quote
Prince Charles has eclipsed Princess Anne as the hardest working royal this year after attending 521 functions, it has emerged.
The Princess Royal, historically the most industrious of the family, had 506 engagements in 2019, The Times said.
The siblings have shared the bulk of royal duties since the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh began to scale back their work in the mid-1990s.
In total, the royal family undertook 3,567 varied engagements in 2019, with The Prince of Wales visiting Japan for see Emperor Naruhito take the throne and Cornwall for a tour of the sausage roll company Ginsters.
The Earl of Wessex attended 308 engagements, and the Queen 295. Prince Andrew, who has faced criticism over his relationship with the convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, attended 274 engagements, his fewest for 20 years.
Unless other members take up the slack next year, the total number of royal engagements could drop below 3,5000 for the first time since 1986.
The statistics were compiled by Times reader Tim O'Donovan, who has monitored the royal family's public service since 1979.
Quote
The Queen 295
Prince of Wales 521
The Duchess of Cornwall 224
Duke of Cambridge 220
Duchess of Cambridge 126
Duke of Sussex 201
Duchess of Sussex 83
Princess Anne 506
Prince Andrew 274
Earl of Wessex 308
Countess of Wessex 236
Duke of Kent 203
Duke of Gloucester 226
Duchess of Gloucester 84
Princess Alexandra 60
Like "Gert" and the poster from the big royal forum, Tim O'Donovan uses the printed and online versions of their Court Circular as their source of information. However since all three that I have seen have had different sums for each other working members, there doesn't seem to be a set manner in how an engagement is considered to be part of the tally. The British royal family reportedly does not keep an official tally.
For those of you who want to find out a bit more on Mr. O'Donovan, the following is an informative article...even if it was in the Daily Mail. The late King George V actually met the newborn Tim O'Donovan as an infant when the King paid a visit to the hospital in which he was born.
Who the hardest working royal REALLY is | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-7835265/Who-hardest-working-royal-REALLY-is.html)
I've been waiting for this to come out. Look forward to it every year. The Queen keeps on going, nearly 300 engagements. Her cousin the Duke of Kent, in his eighties and not well, over 200. Even Alexandra did 60. And Harry 201, his wife, in her birth and maternity leave year, 83.
The last I read, many of Andrew's remaining charities are mothballed for the duration (although how long remains debatable.) Apart from Pitch I think some of the more worthwhile ones could be shared out among other royals. Those charities are blameless. It's not their fault their Patron turned out as he has.
@Curryong-Yes I agree that Andrew's remaining patronages/charities/military appointments will be in a state of limbo because IMO he possibly believes that he's in "time out" for a short duration and then will return. However I do believe that more will choose to drop him though.
How many days did QEII's Scandinavian and Spanish peers have public engagements in 2019? (Nothing available for the Benelux nations, Monaco, Lichtenstein or the ME/Asian monarchies.)
How many days did the Scandinavian and Spanish royal families work in 2019? ? Royal Central (https://royalcentral.co.uk/europe/sweden/how-many-days-did-the-scandinavian-and-spanish-royal-families-work-in-2019-135738/)
The poster at the big forum did keep a tally for the number of days worked in 2019 for the BRF so I do have QEII's.
The most active was Spain's Felipe-180, followed by: Sweden's-Carl Gustav-141, Norway's-Harald-123, UK's Elizabeth-120, finishing with Denmark's-Margrethe-116.
The Prince of Wales and Princess Anne both did around 500 engagements each. At their age it is very admirable.
The most impressive is HM who reached 300 engagements. My goodness. Very admirable.
Going by days worked the winner among all of these families is ...The Princess Royal with 191 days worked. :happy17:
British Days worked: Charles-160, Camilla-98, William-123, Catherine-83, Harry-95, Meghan (maternity leave)-41, Andrew (before mid-Nov.) 129, Edward-121, Sophie-95, Richard-112, Brigitte-62, Edward Kent-110.
Denmark days worked: Frederik-96, Mary-104, Joachim-23, Marie-32, Benedikte-78 (Joachim and Marie moved to France in 2019 for new positions.)
Sweden days worked:-Slivia-126, Victoria-138, Daniel-98, Carl Phillip-52, Sofia-52, Madeline-17
Norway days worked: Sonja-70, Haakon-156, Mette-Marit-36 (Health issues), Martha Louise-6, Astrid-11.
Spain days worked: Letizia-123, Juan Carlos-8, Sofia-21, Elena-3.
Well, those are all good numbers IMO.
I do wonder if prince Philip will ever make a 'semi' official appearance again.
Comparing the BRF numbers with those of Spain and the Scandinavian countries is like comparing apples and oranges though. No other monarchy in the world has the number of full time royals on roster that the British Royal family does, the Spanish Royals for instance have just the King and Queen. Tiny Denmark, with few big centres of population, has five full time representatives while Sweden has six.
None of the others mentioned has a Commonwealth that their royals tour regularly either, though Spain does have Latin spheres of interest which are visited, though not as regularly as British royals do with the Commonwealth. So really, while interesting figures, these say nothing comparitively speaking.
I agree it's difficult to compare, but it's still interesting IMHO. :happy: Besides it's the "slow winter season." :snowflake:
I love that Mary of Denmark has performed more yearly engagements than the heir, her husband. That should make the posters at a certain dishy forum happy as its averred there that Mary is the nasty power behind the (coming) throne pushing aside her spineless, wandering eye Frederik aside at every opportunity!
This accounting was done by the team at UFO No More and there is a short disclaimer.
QuoteAt the end of each year, we can study and comment on the work of the British Royal Family. The UFO No More team decided to look at the work of the Scandinavian and Spanish royal families which is something that is not always done.
Before diving into the data, a small disclaimer is needed. These numbers represent the days worked by each member of the royal families based on their official calendar. Of course, there are meetings, ?office work? to prepare each event that we don?t know about, so they are all working more than these numbers show, but they still are a good overview. It was decided to count the days worked rather than the numbers of events because it was easier but also clearer. Naturally, they sometimes attend several events a day.
AFAIK these are the only royal families who keep a form of a public diary (UK-Court Circular) available for viewing via print or electronic media.
Double post auto-merged: January 05, 2020, 09:56:29 PM
That team also posted their annual "The Price is Right" fashion tally for 2019 so you can go to their site if you are interested. :Jen:
Thread dedicated to the annual engagements tally for the British Royal Family
This is a quarterly tally based upon the Court Circular listed engagements for the BRF. :Jen: :windsor1:
(Unfortunately many of the activities for the family have been postponed or cancelled at this point in times especially for those members who are over seventy years of age: QEII, PoW, DssoC, Gloucesters and Kents) :( Also I am including the engagements of the Sussexes and the DoY that have been recorded in the CC for 2020.
QEII-61, PoW-115, DssoC-42, DoCam-56, DssoCam-41, DoS-2, DssoS-1, DoY-1, EoW-62, CoW-60, PssR-91, TL-10, DoG-34, DssoG-12, DoK-34, PssA-7.
The firm is working hard!
The Firm continuing to hold its meetings while the UK is on a stay at home order. The CC has entries for PoW, DoCam and EoW all having meetings with their organizations this week via telephone or video conference. Also QEII continues her weekly meetings with the PM over the phone.
Quote from: TLLK on March 26, 2020, 03:15:12 AM
The Firm continuing to hold its meetings while the UK is on a stay at home order. The CC has entries for PoW, DoCam and EoW all having meetings with their organizations this week via telephone or video conference. Also QEII continues her weekly meetings with the PM over the phone.
Wonderful! And hopefully the POW continues to have a mild case. I understand that he and the Duchess are isolated from each other at Birkhall. Thank goodness, as she is clearly one we don't want to get sick.
Quarterly tally for the BRF at around the six month mark. It includes a mix of in-person and virtual engagements for 2020 for the members of the BRF who carry out official engagements. This does include the activities of the Sussexes and the DoY for engagements listed in the Court Circular. :crown: :coach:
QEII-87, PoW-162, DssoC-59, DoCam-109, DssoCam-67, DoS-2, DssoS-1, DoY-1, EoW-80, CoW-88, PR-127, TL-11, DoG-54, DssoG-29, DoK-38, PA-12.
3. The overall number of engagements has plunged in 2020. Usually by the August vacation break, the royals have completed more than 2,000 engagements. This year, they haven?t even cracked the 1,000 level. An excellent color coded graph for the British engagements in 2020. It color codes the months from Jan.-Aug and compares to the previous years.
THE ODDEST OF ROYAL WORK YEARS, IN CHARTS | Write Royalty (https://writeroyalty.com/the-oddest-of-royal-work-year-in-charts/)
QuoteThe year started out normally. On Jan. 5, the head of the royal family started her work schedule for 2020. That day, Queen Elizabeth II ?presented The Queen Elizabeth Prize for Academic Excellence at Springwood High School, King?s Lynn, to Ellie Chen, who was introduced into Her Majesty?s presence by Mr. Andrew Johnson, the Headmaster,? the Court Circular reported.
Almost immediately, things went off the usually polished, honed rails. First, Prince Harry and Meghan, Duchess of Sussex announced they were jettisoning their roles as senior working royals, then, two months later, the COVID-19 pandemic hit Britain. The royals soldiered on until mid-March, then they suddenly stopped all public engagements as they hunkered down in their homes. A few days later, they started again, but by video and phone. A huge number of the COVID-19 era engagements were remote meetings with charities.
The COVID-19 era, which began on March 24, ended on June 15. The next day, Prince Charles and other top royals appeared in public at in-person engagements. Everything was very distanced (no handshakes, no indoor events, nothing announced in advance to deter crowds from forming). But the royals were back in public. Still, video and phone meetings continued.
So, how much did COVID-19 disrupt the royal schedule for 2020? A lot.
Using a new tool, Infogram interactive charting software, I plotted what happened in 2020, then compared it to previous years.
1. The ranking of hardest royals is pretty much the same as previous years, though, by the end of July, Prince William has vaulted into third spot.2. The type of work has changed radically to accomodate the reality of a worldwide pandemic. In-person engagements all but disappeared during the COVID-19 lockdown, and are still in the minority after the reopening started in June.
@sara8150 Where are you!!! If someone has her contact, please find out if she's well. I miss her article postings.
The Royal Family
@royalfamilyThe Queen has sent a message of condolence to the Lord-Lieutenant of Kincardineshire, following the train crash near Stonehaven.
I just sent a PM mesage to sara8150 to check on her.
It's been awhile but here are in the last quarter of the year...one that most of us would probably want to forget! :wacko:
The update on the BRF engagements. (Those in italics are no longer full time working royals.)
QEII-112, DoE-3 PoW-218, DssC-103, DoCam-150, DssoCam-97, DoS-2, DssoS-1, DoY-1, EoW-142, CssoW-127, PssR-194, TL-11, DoG-63, DssoG-43, DoK-58, PssA-13.
Not surprisingly the older member of the family QEII and her cousins have lower engagement numbers than usual.
So we're coming into the final days of 2020 with an update on the BRF's engagements. :crown: :happyuk:
Here they are and those who are no longer full time are in italics.
QEII-139, DoE-3, PoW-282, DssoC-139, DoCam-186, DssoCam-129, DoS-2, DssoS-1, DoY-1, EoW-189, CoW-166, PR-247, TL-12, DoG-77, DssoG-54, DoK-71, PA-13.
Some of the more elderly members of the BRF like the Kents/Alexandra pulled back quite a bit, not perhaps being very comfortable with zoom , or performing engagements with masks. Of the other members I think that a good 65% of their engagements this year were by zoom and phone. It must have been a very weird sensation. Of course it will continue into next year. Not everyone in Britain will be vaccinated by next autumn.
While we're waiting for Mr. Tim O'Donovan's annual tally to The Times, here's another one from Write Royalty with an impressive number of graphs and pie charts based upon the Court Circular. Here's the list according to who came in first, second etc... in this tally for 2020. (Keep in mind that things can shift a bit when compared to other tallies.) Overall the total number of engagements are down due to cancellations in domestic and foreign events as well as the fact that the Sussexes and DoY are no longer undertaking royal duties that are recorded in the Court Circular.
Royal family in 2020, a.k.a. an odd royal work year (https://writeroyalty.com/royal-family-in-2020-a-k-a-the-oddest-royal-work-year/)
1. PoW 2. PR 3. DoCam 4. EoW 5. CssoW 6. QEII 7. DssoC 8. DssoCam 9. DoG 10. DoK 11. DssoG 12. PA.
It has been an extremely odd year for the working royals. However, in spite of their ages and considering the Queen's, I'm not surprised to see Charles and Anne still leading the pack in spite of Covid. They do so almost every year and both have a considerable number of patronages. Zoom and other alternate communications have certainly come into their own in 2020.
:snowflake: Ending the year with Tim O' Donovan's tally for 2020. (Column E is the total for domestic engagements and Column F is for overseas ones. Add the two together for his final number for each member.) He did have columns for in-person and video/phone events.
https://twitter.com/MajestyMagazine/status/1344946442029379584/photo/ (Click on link to view tally.)
By the numbers: QEII-133, PoW-271, DssoC-120, DoCam-153, DssoCam-108, EoW-129, CoW-154, PR0--233, DoG-80, DssoG-48, DoK-68, PA-13.
Mr O'Donovan's tally is as always as regular as clockwork. I wonder whether he has found a volunteer deputy yet among his younger friends and relatives as he will hardly be able to carry on for too much longer? As usual Charles and Anne lead the pack but the Queen has gamely kept up many of her engagements, via zoom etc.
Something seems off about the Cambridge's "F" or "foreign" travel numbers. The only overseas trip they took in 2020 was to the Republic of Ireland and I'm sure that they did more than four engagements there. Just from doing a quick review, I believe that it was closer to ten for March 3, 4, 5 2020.
Here's the link to the CC for the Cambridges' two day trip to Ireland. (I doubt Mr. O'Donovan considers "departures and arrivals from Heathrow" as part of the activities.)
Court Circular | The Royal Family (https://www.royal.uk/court-circular?text=ireland&mrf=2916&date%5Bmin%5D%5Bdate%5D=2%2F01%2F2020&date%5Bmax%5D%5Bdate%5D=2%2F01%2F2021&id=)
It certainly looks to be about eight engagements in Ireland at least.
Does the old boy use official online information about the royals schedules, via such websites as you have linked above, or simply rely on the printed versions via the Times and as a backup the Morning Post, I wonder? On the big forum the poster who collates the RF numbers throughout the year has complained in the past about missing dates and quite long delays at times in the recording of Royal engagements in both the printed form and online. She has to check them both at times as a check. I'm just wondering if Tim O'Donovan is perhaps a bit wary of computers, natural at his age, maybe he's relied just on The Times and that's where it's become unstuck.
@Curryong-I believe that he like many who keep their tallies use the printed version and that includes the one poster at the big forum. That poster certainly has a right to complain about the online CC especially this year. I looked at her tally and she noted when 20 plus engagements would be missing because a day had not been noted. As we know this is not a one off for 2020 as this problem has been going on for years. I'm imagining some poor staff member tasked with maintaining the online CC is housed in a "cupboard under the stairs" handed an ancient laptop with dial up Internet. :teehee:
So the DM posted an online article today with their tally based solely on the online version. Now there are minor discrepancies between Mr. O'Donovan's tally and the others but the DM's is WAAAY off this year. It claims that the Queen only carried out 115 engagements, so that's off by around 25. Anne's total was only 207 which is off by around 23. Then they claim that Sophie had a total of 78 and Catherine a total of 68 engagements for 2020 which is off by over 50 for each lady. Mind you it's not the DM's fault that their information is inaccurate because the online version has been neglected. I'd love to see the poster at the big forum whip that online version into shape!
Queen and Prince William carried out almost half of their engagements virtually in 2020 | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-9104775/Queen-Prince-William-carried-half-engagements-virtually-2020.html)
Considering the Daily Fail regularly calls the Queen Her Royal Highness on its online version of the DM, along with all the other lies, evasions, stupidities and errors that rag perpetrates, I'm not at all surprised that their tally for 2020 Royal engagements is seriously off kilter.
However, I'm surprised at BP, considering how many people it employs as so called communications officers within its ranks, being so neglectful of the online CC. It seems as though Mr O'Donovan just made an error with regard to Ireland then. I think the old boy really needs an assistant.
The description of A and F is to basic and vague.
I keep tract of my own numbers and the Cambridges numbers aren't acturate Dozens of engagements missing. It's a shame
@PrincessOfPeace - I would love to see your tally if you don't mind sharing it. :)
BTW did you keep track of any other member(s) of the BRF? If you did, were there discrepancies with the others numbers as well? I expect that there will be some minor ones between Tim O'Donovan's, the poster on the Big Forum, Write Royally etc.. However since I believe that they rely upon the printed version of the CC, there shouldn't be too big a gap Plus or Minus.
Gert's Royals has kept track of the Cambridges' engagements since 2017 but the tally is only updated to November 2020.
Here's William's up to Nov. 2020 count. Gert's Royals: Prince William - Official Engagements (2020) (https://gertsroyals.blogspot.com/2019/11/prince-william-official-engagements-2020.html)
Catherine's Gert's Royals count is only tallied up to August 2020. Gert's Royals: Duchess Kate - Official Engagements 2020 (https://gertsroyals.blogspot.com/2020/01/duchess-kate-official-engagements-2020.html)
Someone needs to take over the online CC ASAP. The poster on the Big Forum keeps note of how many days are missing from the online CC when compared to the printed CC and it's pitiful. :notamused:
The 2021 Quarterly Round Up for Official British Engagements :happyuk: :crown:
First Quarter: January 1- March 26, 2021-(Note-The COVID 19 global pandemic continues to impact all royal engagements in 2021 with many official engagements being conducted virtually or by telephone. There are the occasional in-person visits during the the first quarter of the year. The PoW and Duchess of Cornwall undertake the first official overseas visit of the year on an official visit to Greece to celebrate the nation's bicentennial.)
Numbers are based on the engagement tally at the big royal forum.
QEII-28, PoW-55, DssoC-24, DoCam-97, DssoCam-33, EoW-56, CssoW-32, PssR-47, DoG-16, DssoG-6, DoK-6, PssA-0
Very good numbers for everyone.
@PrincessOfPeace - I agree especially since most engagements are still occurring at a distance, travel is still monitored in some areas and overseas/incoming trips are likely to be limited throughout 2021. This applies to all of the reigining royal families around the globe. Also the various charities and patronages who would have normally seen at least one in-person visit from their patron, might not be able to hold the events their patron would have attended ie: workshops, fundraising activities etc...
:yipee: It's the end of the second quarter now for the BRF engagements with a mix of virtual and in-person engagements. Late July through August tends to be a slow time of the year for most royal families and the BRF are no exception. Sadly we're not seeing the number of royals including members of the BRF at the Tokyo Olympics that we would have seen in past years
Here's the current numbers which are from the list on the big royal forum.
Queen-123, PoW-193, DssoC-92, DoCam-176, DssoCam-79, EoW-119, CssoW-84, PR-218, CmdrTL-14, DoG-29, DssoG-22, DoK-37, PssA-5.
Earning the gold medal for the most engagements for this quarter is the Princess Royal.
It's that time of the year when the annual royal tallies for the BRF and the accompanying articles begin to appear. The New Zealand Herald's Daniella Elser gives her opinion on the BRF's engagements for 2021 mostly focusing upon the PoW, PR, and the Cambridges.
Daniela Elser: Why William and Kate are the most expensive royals - NZ Herald (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/daniela-elser-why-william-and-kate-are-the-most-expensive-royals/AWIGYS6QXOSWAEJSKEDKFK6UJY/?ref=readmore)
QuoteWhat can $2.53 get you? Turns out, a Twix multipack, one and a half packets of Tesco Liquorice Allsorts or a working monarchy.
In the scheme of things, $2.53 is, literally, loose change but that figure also happens to represent how much the royal family "costs' each Briton, every year.
And while we have pondered a number of vexing questions about the royal family this year ? are they racist? Cruel? Will the whole ermine-trimmed dog-and-pony show survive the passing of the Queen or come toppling down in a Real Housewives-esque blaze of ignominy and tawdriness? ? one which has been largely overlooked is, are they good value?
Today we have an answer, sort of, to that ? one that is excellent news if you are a Princess Anne-phile and pretty dismal if you happen to be firmly in the pro-Kate, Duchess of Cambridge camp.
See, the official work statistics for the year have started to come out, that is, how many official engagements each of the remaining working members of the royal house have undertaken in 2021.
(Obviously the final figures won't come out until later in the month when we are all thoroughly sick of turkey leftovers and the tinsel has started to sag but nor are they likely to change much.)
Personally I have come to believe that the royals with the largest number of patronages/charities/ honorary military appointments tend to have the highest number of engagements. Mostly based upon reading the Court Circular entries which often share among the entry details: date, place, type of event, that the royal visiting an event is the Patron/President/Honorary (military rank), And after decades of official royal duties, it doesn't surprise me that the Queen, the PoW, and Princess Royal have routinely higher numbers than younger members of the family. :shrug:
It's a little early for Mr. O'Donovan's annual tally but here's the final numbers from the dedicated member at the Big Royal Forum. The poster did point out that if a family member's only appearance was the DoE's funeral ie: Andrew, Harry, Beatrice, Eugenie, Louise, James etc... then it was not included in the tally.
It should be noted that each person that compiles a royal engagement tally does have their own methodology however nearly all use the more reliable :thumbsup: PRINTED Court Circular over the less reliable online version. <_<
In order from the greatest number to the least.
HRH The Princess Royal 404
HRH The Prince of Wales 392
HRH The Duke of Cambridge 232
HRH The Earl of Wessex 214
HM The Queen 191
HRH The Duchess of Cornwall 184
HRH The Countess of Wessex 156
HRH The Duchess of Cambridge 117
HRH The Duke of Gloucester 112
HRH The Duke of Kent 81
HRH The Duchess of Gloucester 62
Vice-Admiral Sir Timothy Laurence 35
HRH Princess Alexandra, Lady Ogilvy 31
HRH Prince Michael of Kent 1
Here's the Daily Mail's 2021 tally which strangely only covers
five of the
twelve working members. :blank: The article taking care to note which were "in-person" and "virtual" engagements. (Note-
I cannot find the source of their information and this is the most in-depth tally article that I've ever seen from the DM. Finally why didn't they include the Princess Royal, Earl of Wessex and the Duchess of Cornwall in their analysis??? I understand why they might have missed the cousins and Timothy Laurence, but the Queen's daughter? youngest son? the future consort??? :blink:)
Royal engagements for 2021 revealed | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-10347825/Royal-engagements-2021-revealed.html)
QuoteThe Queen carried out 118 of her 192 engagements virtually, as the pandemic made meeting wellwishers risky
Analysis of 5 royals revealed Prince William, 39, managed to attend 108 of his 223 appearance in person
Charles, 73, had the most royal duties to perform with 335 to attend, of which he managed to 227 in person
Sophie Wessex, attended 92 of her 144 engagements in the flesh, completing the rest virtually
Kate Middleton appeared at 84 of her 119 engagements, last year she had 133 engagements
Hard-working royal Princess Anne followed closely behind Prince Charles with 284 engagements
Charles was the most visible, while the the Duchess of Cornwall came in second place, carrying out 146 out of 157 engagements in person, leaving the Duke of Cambridge third with 108 personal appearances
Has anyone found a copy of Mr. O'Donovan's 2021 tally?
I can't find it in The Times. Will keep an eye opened for it.
I have to wonder if Mr. O' Donovan will ever release another tally as he never shared the 2021 information.
Quote from: TLLK on October 29, 2022, 02:11:51 PM
I have to wonder if Mr. O' Donovan will ever release another tally as he never shared the 2021 information.
Didn?t Mr O? Donavon (who is over 90 years old) say he would love someone to take over his work a couple of years ago? I?m sure I read it somewhere. It was a lovely annual tradition but it looks as if he has given the hobby up and no-one else has stepped into his place, which is a shame iMO.
Hmmm...I believe that both you and I are familiar with an excellent replacement. Now if only that person from the big forum could be placed in contact with Mr. O'Donovan.
Guess what I have found elsewhere, Tim O'Donovan's annual breakdown from The Times
Royals cut back on visits | News | The Times (https://archive.ph/AKaaj)
Quote from: Curryong on January 01, 2023, 05:29:36 AM
Guess what I have found elsewhere, Tim O'Donovan's annual breakdown from The Times
Royals cut back on visits | News | The Times (https://archive.ph/AKaaj)
The King?s vision of a ?slimmed-down monarchy? is already taking shape as members of the royal family undertook almost 30 per cent fewer engagements in 2022 than before the pandemic.
The total, compiled annually for The Times by a reader, Tim O?Donovan, since 1979, was 2,601. Other than in 2020 and last year, when lockdowns were enforced, it was the fewest since 1983.
The Duke of York, who ceased royal duties after a disastrous interview with the BBC in 2019, carried out 274 engagements that year and in previous years had performed up to 600. Prince Andrew was suspended from duties four days after the interview and resigned from all roles in May 2020.
NEWS
Most active royals
Total engagements in 2022
King Charles
497
Princess Royal
474
Countess of Wessex
280
Earl of Wessex
276
Queen Consort
194
Prince of Wales
190
Duke of Gloucester
183
Princess of Wales
138
Queen Elizabeth
120
Duchess of Gloucester
110
Duke of Kent
91
Princess Alexandra
48
Duke of Sussex
0
Duchess of Sussex
0
Prince Andrew, Duke of York
0
Chart: The Times and The Sunday Times
Quote from: Curryong on January 01, 2023, 05:29:36 AM
Guess what I have found elsewhere, Tim O'Donovan's annual breakdown from The Times
Royals cut back on visits | News | The Times (https://archive.ph/AKaaj)
Yay!! I had been concerned when he didn't release a tally in 2021 and thought that he might not ever do another one.
Now while O'Donovan and the poster at TRF use thr Court Circular as their source of information, they have different totals again.
Quote from: TLLK on January 01, 2023, 12:51:31 PM
Yay!! I had been concerned when he didn't release a tally in 2021 and thought that he might not ever do another one.
Now while O'Donovan and the poster at TRF use thr Court Circular as their source of information, they have different totals again.
Do they? Interesting, I must take another look. Of course it?s possible that whoever is helping Mr O?Donavon (and he must be having some help surely at his age) has made a mistake or two due to being new to the job, but perhaps the TFF poster left off a couple of engagements by members of the family after the late Queen?s death that were classed as private at first but then later turned up in the CC and she missed them? I don?t suppose it matters too much in the scheme of things.
@Curryong-Yes the two tallies do not match up. The TRF tally has a higher count for everyone and even included those family members who do not carry out official engagements: Sussexes, DoY, the York Princesses, Prince and Princess Michael of Kent, the Wales children Edo Mappelli-Mozzi and Jack Brooksbank in their annual tally as their presence at engagements was noted for 2022. Those engagements appear to be ones associated with the DoY's memorial, the Jubilee and QEII's funeral. QEII's other grandchildren: Peter Phillips, Zara Tindall, Lady Louise and Viscount Severen are not included as they likely didn't have a mention in the CC.
From TRF here's the final count of engagements going from highest to lowest number of engagements. KCIII, QC, PoW and PssoW have their earlier engagements from before the death of QEII added to the ones carried out afterwards.
QuoteRankings Based on Number of Engagements
1. HM The King +HRH The Prince of Wales ? 226 + 324 = 550
2. HRH The Princess Royal ? 509
3. HRH The Countess of Wessex ? 324
4. HRH The Earl of Wessex ? 318
5. HM The Queen Consort + HRH The Duchess of Cornwall ? 80 + 148 = 228
6. HRH The Prince of Wales +HRH The Duke of Cambridge ? 76 + 143 = 219
7. HRH The Duke of Gloucester ? 193
8. HRH The Princess of Wales + HRH The Duchess of Cambridge ? 55 + 123 = 178
9. Vice-Admiral Sir Timothy Laurence ? 150
10. HM The Queen ? 134 ? Died 8th December, 2022
11. HRH The Duchess of Gloucester ? 119
12. HRH The Duke of Kent ? 105
13. HRH Princess Alexandra, the Honourable Lady Ogilvy ? 57
14. HRH The Duke of York ? 15
15. HRH Princess Beatrice, Mrs Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi ? 11
16. HRH Prince Michael of Kent ? 11
17. HRH Princess Michael of Kent - 11
18. HRH Princess Eugenie, Mrs Jack Brooksbank ? 10
19. HRH The Duke of Sussex ? 9
20. Mr Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi ? 9
21. Mr Jack Brooksbank ? 9
22. HRH Princess Charlotte of Cambridge ? 7
23. HRH Prince George of Cambridge ? 5
24. HRH The Duchess of Sussex ? 5
25. HRH Prince Louis of Cambridge ? 2
2022 totals of royal engagements for each working member of the BRF.
Kate comes the last of all of the senior royals. Those figures for 2022 aren?t exceptional for Kate either. From the beginning of her married life, and from the beginning of the time when she and William and Harry were supposed to be working fulltime, her figures have been extremely low.
The only ones who did less last year are two elderly people in their 80s.
What is that about ?not lunching or playing tennis?? Anybody can talk the talk. It?s walking the walk that matters!
Princess Anne - 214 royal engagements
King Charles III - 181 royal engagements
Prince Edward, Earl of Sussex - 143 royal engagements
Sophie, Countess of Wessex - 138 royal engagements
William, Prince of Wales - 126 royal engagements
Camilla, Queen Consort - 102 royal engagements
Richard, Duke of Gloucester - 100 royal engagements
Birgitte, Duchess of Gloucester - 94 royal engagements
Catherine, Princess of Wales - 90 royal engagements
Prince Edward, Duke of Kent - 78 royal engagements
Princess Alexandra - 44 royal engagements
First of all, Catherine still have small children at home to care for as both she and William are hands on and not relying on nannies 24/7. Catherine is just who and what she is....Catherine, wife of William and mother of 3 small children and so many dislike her for that it seems like..some in the royal family should of learned from HM on how to be a loyal royal member of the family. The negativity of Catherine is very apparent.
Quote from: TLLK on January 31, 2023, 02:20:04 PM
Remarks related to the Princess of Wales' annual engagements have been moved. Further off topic comments will be removed. Please heed the moderator comment from @PrincessOfPeace
If members wish to discuss the number of engagements that each member of the BRF makes, please continue the discussion in the thread linked below.
The annual royal tallies 2019 to the present (https://www.royalinsight.net/forum/index.php?topic=91019.0)
I like the ratio and percentage Catherine (and William) are giving to the parenting job. Future King and Queen are focusing on the right things first and foremost, the family values and goals (education, morality, society). The quality of their joint and independent projects are great. Yes, highlighting charities, towns and cities with their charity of preference or going to a food bank (Pa just gave GBP 250M to domestic crisis, asked them to support his decree) is good too in my books, but their priority as has been discussed for years by the media, by the fans is interesting at best. I'd be in Catherine's shoes thinking Anne and her ex live in the same land estate how did they do it, Edward and Sophie also to date seem to have two grounded children, the York's, then Charles....
Anyway, the high approval ratings of the Wales's, keep on going.
Quote from: Nightowl on January 31, 2023, 09:43:21 AM
First of all, Catherine still have small children at home to care for as both she and William are hands on and not relying on nannies 24/7. Catherine is just who and what she is....Catherine, wife of William and mother of 3 small children and so many dislike her for that it seems like..some in the royal family should of learned from HM on how to be a loyal royal member of the family. The negativity of Catherine is very apparent.
Honestly IMO Catherine has the lowest number of engagements among the most senior royals simply because she is the newest member in that group and has the fewest number of patronages, presidencies and appointments. :shrug:
Charles and Anne have the highest number organizations which are in the hundreds that they represent and have been "working" royals since the 1980's. As evidenced by previous annual engagement tallies taken over the decades, the family members with the higher number of patronages/presidencies will ultimately have the higher engagement tally numbers.
Edward, Sophie, and Camilla entered in the senior royal pool in the early to mid 2000's so they typically have the next highest number of patronages. Of those three, Camilla held the higher profile position as the wife of the heir to the throne until Sept. 2022. Remember that Charles and Camilla took on the official foreign travel when the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh stopped their overseas travel. There were no outgoing State Visits from the UK when the Queen stopped traveling abroad. There were only incoming ones.
Finally, William and Catherine round out the group and they became full timers in 2016. He has about 40 organizations that he currently represents and she has 20.
It should be noted that the patronages, charities, and presidencies that the late DoE and QEII once held had a combined total of over 1,200. The vast majority have not been "reassigned" to other members of the family. No doubt inquiries as to which organizations still want a royal patron are ongoing since the couple's respective passing. We may receive an announcement prior to the Coronation or afterwards regarding these patronages/organizations etc...
Now there has been an announcement to honorary military appointments with Camilla-Grenadier Guards, William-Welsh Guards and Catherine-Irish Guards, but there are still others that the DoE and QEII held.
Yes, but there has been alleged palace sources during the past years, Kate's primary focus are her children. This shouldn't be dismissed as a non job. It's the hardest job.
Kate had low numbers back in her early years of marriage because there wasn't enough money for her to be a full time royal and she was not expected to become one. She had her children, and a few years ago, Philip retired and freed up money, and she began to do more work..
and she is still probably trying to spend as much time with the children as she can before she and William are busier with supporting Charles and Cam. They are older people and probably wont do that much travelling and Cath will probalby need to send the kids to boarding school.....
Kate has always stressed that raising her children in a hands on manner is her first priority. In 2012, Kate did 111 official engagements according to the Court Circular, more than either William or Harry, so it's not like she's invisible. Plus her popularity with the British public speaks for itself.
Quote from: wannable on January 31, 2023, 02:45:58 PM
Yes, but there has been alleged palace sources during the past years, Kate's primary focus are her children. This shouldn't be dismissed as a non job. It's the hardest job.
Absolutely agree with you 100% as being a mother is the toughest job there is to raise a child to be a decent human being. Being born in a royal family and heir more so.
Quote from: Nightowl on February 01, 2023, 05:17:35 AM
Absolutely agree with you 100% as being a mother is the toughest job there is to raise a child to be a decent human being. Being born in a royal family and heir more so.
why is it harder to rear a royal child? One has a lot more help.
Just my take on it, a royal child has to learn so many more things about life earlier then a normal child, like they have security around them almost 24/7, they have to watch what they say to people and mostly to reporters if they get close, a normal child can run around anywhere and be sloppy where as a royal child just can't do that, sure royal children have shorts and sneakers and t-shirts yet rarely do we see them in sloppy clothes playing in dirt and having fun on a swing......just my take on some of the issues of a child being born into a royal family and if one is heir then that is another whole different ball park. I think Catherine tries to make sure George has a normal childhood more then his dad ever did. Just imagine having your entire life played out by the media and worry who is around the next corner wanting to take your picture all the time.....that is hard for adults let alone a child. Like Beatrice's husband most of the time looks grumpy for the cameras whereas Beatrice just smiles and moves on and it does not effect her like it does her husband.
I certainly dont notice Bea's husband looking grumpy, he seems to enjoy looking fashionable and smart in pictures.
Kate has plenty of help with the kids, they have police and nanny and staff to help her... so far however Louis is being rather a brat, and needs a bit more of a firm nanny.....
When we saw Louis over the summer at age 4 and 4 months, he was behaving in a rather typical four year old fashion. As an educator, I've worked with scor of children around that age and stage of development. We the public just don't always see it on worldwide television coverage. They can be very compliant but at the same time very impulsive. That's normal for that age and stage. Keep in mind also that we just didn't see his siblings George and Charlotte as much during that age in their lifetimes. I do recall when they were four years old, George was being a bit unruly at his aunt Pippa's wedding and Charlotte was sticking out her tongue at the King's Cup. However both of them have been very well behaved since then at public events as demonstrated at the DoE's memorial, Jubilee, QEII's funeral and recently at Christmas. Louis' father, uncle Harry, cousin Zara etc..displayed similar behaviors at around the same age at public events such as on the BP balcony or when they were in a wedding party. It's been the same with other royal families too. Now during the Jubilee events where we've seen Louis he had periods of time where he was calmer and still ie: Trooping the Color carriage rides. Then he had times where he was active and unruly ie: Jubilee Concert. His parents had him removed when he stopped listening which was the appropriate step to take.
Children at that age and stage are have shorter attention spans, push boundaries and need more redirection. However incredible growth and maturity takes place over the period of one year especially when they start school. Parents aren't the only ones who are reinforcing behavior expectations and it's not uncommon to hear parents state that their children are better behaved with their teachers. Honestly I believe that Louis will be fine.
So far this year it has been Anne and Charles, and then the rest regarding the number of royal engagements among working royals. Anne The Princess Royal ? 344, The King ? 336, with Camilla limping behind, at 152.
William and Kate are on 109 and 90 respectively, so Kate is miles behind three people in their 70s and William behind two as well as the Dukes of Edinburgh and Gloucester. Kate isn?t just behind them but behind Sophie Edinburgh as well!
Such hard workers, with half the year gone! And August, a time of holidays for the Royals at Balmoral and elsewhere isn?t likely to improve things. Any chance of William reaching his father or aunt?s totals by December? Hardly! And as for Kate, who regularly is ahead, just, of very elderly working members of the Royal list like the Kents but way behind the rest of the pack, words fail me!
I find this website uses a little perspective - British Royal Family Engagements - 2022 & 2023 - The Royal Forums (https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f23/british-royal-family-engagements-2022-and-2023-a-49194.html)
As the King and the Princess Royal have the most patronages, military appointments and honorary positions which have been accumulated over the 40 plus years of royal duty service, I'm not surprised to see that they would be at the top of the list for engagement tallies. :shrug: When you read the Court Circular, you typically see that a royal is there in their role as a Patron. Those with more patronages tend to have a busier calendar than those with fewer. I doubt that
Charles, Anne, Camilla etc..would expect the Wales to take their place at an engagement of which they are not the patrons.
The Gloucesters, Edinburghs, and Kents also have gathered many patronages, military appointments etc...in their decades of service. Though of course the Kents are slowing down.
The Wales are the ones with the fewest number of patronages, appointments etc... unlike those in their eighties, seventies and fifties, so I don't expect them to be at the top of the tally.
Quote from: PrincessOfPeace on August 01, 2023, 01:27:54 AM
I find this website uses a little perspective - British Royal Family Engagements - 2022 & 2023 - The Royal Forums (https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f23/british-royal-family-engagements-2022-and-2023-a-49194.html)
IMHO this is even better than Tim O'Donovan's.
We know that KCIII is the Patron/President of over 400 organizations. His sister the PssR has 300 or so that she represents. Naturally I expect them to be busier than the younger royals who far fewer patronages.
Quote from: TLLK on August 01, 2023, 01:49:40 AM
IMHO this is even better than Tim O'Donovan's.
We know that KCIII is the Patron/President of over 400 organizations. His sister the PssR has 300 or so that she represents. Naturally I expect them to be busier than the younger royals who far fewer patronages.
Yes, but traditionally the BRF working royals have always had hundreds of Patronages/Presidencies. We knew, because it was discussed over the years that this often just meant their name on a letterhead.
That was so for the QM, the late Queen and the late PP.
It?s been acknowledged over the years in Royal forums that those royals and others did not assiduously follow through with anything like visiting all those charities even a half a dozen times a year each. It would have been physically impossible. And surely nobody is suggesting that King Charles or even Princess Anne visits every one of the charities under their patronage, let alone people like the Kents and Gloucesters doing so.
The point is however that the King and his sister follow through with visiting at least a couple of dozen charities/organisations throughout the year which are high profile, important regionally or otherwise or worthwhile, as well as carrying out ceremonial and other duties.
Kate doesn?t. In fact she received some very rare criticism from the usually adoring British media earlier this year when there were no public engagements and it was not school holidays. She does less, much less in fact, in the number of engagements per year than Diana did. And Diana too had young offspring, the excuse that is regularly trotted out for Kate.
She is going to have to hope that her father in law and his wife and the Gloucesters and Edinburghs keep in reasonable health, and activity, otherwise some of the media are going to start to notice in greater numbers. And as I said on another post William isn?t exactly bursting a boiler every day with royal engagements, whether he is Patron or not.
Sorry I used the wrong thread before.
And The Royal Forum was where I got the figures I quoted in my post. They are indeed very accurate.
@Curryong-Over the years I've come to the conclusion that the there's been a deliberate shift in policy when it comes to patronages. I believe that this began with the younger children (Andrew/Edward) and grandchildren (William/Harry) of the late QEII and DoE. These members would not become the patrons of hundreds of organizations unlike the older group QEII/Doe-Charles/Anne. Instead they would focus upon foundations (Royal Foundation) or take over existing large schemes ie: the DoE Awards/Pitch at Palace while becoming the patrons of a smaller number of charities. For example Edward only has 70 while his eldest siblings have hundreds.
The impact is stronger and in memory with a few organizations, foundations or tie in one event several charities rather than 6K charities cutting ribbons, a photo op, small chit chat, no one can finger point.
I'd very likely exempt Princess Anne who regularly visits her hundreds of charities every year. Charles a second, but most people recognize his championing via his own organization, foundation (trust).
I personally believe that around the time that the Wessexes/Edinburghs joined the working royals group, that there was a decision made to have them and any future royals ie William/Harry and future spouses not take on the huge number of patronages that the older group of royals which included Charles, Anne, and Andrew had been doing for decades. At that point in time, the late Queen and DoE had so many that years would go by before the organization would receive a visit from their royal patron.
Edward and Sophie each have about 70 patronages which is far below Edward's elder siblings. Charles has around 400, Anne-300 and even Andrew had around 200.
William has over 30 as well as the Royal Foundation with Catherine holding about 20 patronages.
I don't believe that it was expected that in the future that those younger royals would have as many organizations to represent as the older ones. Mostly because the late Queen, DoE and Charles realized that there would be a smaller group of working royals in the future. Now there are even fewer representatives now that Andrew, Harry and Meghan no longer undertake these types of duties.
So honestly with the remaining half of the year, I doubt that William plans to "catch up" to his father's or aunt's tally numbers mostly because he doesn't represent as many organizations as they do.
There's many ways to look at the numbers. The Wales' are far from invisible. Both William and Catherine have carried out engagements on more days than either Edward or Sophie. William has actually worked more days than Camilla and Catherine is just a few behind her.
So as far as being out and about, the Wales' are not hiding away anywhere. They are simply putting their family first.
Quote from: TLLK on August 01, 2023, 05:39:04 PM
I personally believe that around the time that the Wessexes/Edinburghs joined the working royals group, that there was a decision made to have them and any future royals ie William/Harry and future spouses not take on the huge number of patronages that the older group of royals which included Charles, Anne, and Andrew had been doing for decades. At that point in time, the late Queen and DoE had so many that years would go by before the organization would receive a visit from their royal patron.
Edward and Sophie each have about 70 patronages which is far below Edward's elder siblings. Charles has around 400, Anne-300 and even Andrew had around 200.
William has over 30 as well as the Royal Foundation with Catherine holding about 20 patronages.
I don't believe that it was expected that in the future that those younger royals would have as many organizations to represent as the older ones. Mostly because the late Queen, DoE and Charles realized that there would be a smaller group of working royals in the future. Now there are even fewer representatives now that Andrew, Harry and Meghan no longer undertake these types of duties.
So honestly with the remaining half of the year, I doubt that William plans to "catch up" to his father's or aunt's tally numbers mostly because he doesn't represent as many organizations as they do.
Yes it appears that William?s view is to concentrate his engagement calendar on a few areas that he considers vital and that will be the same for Kate, besides ceremonial duties of course. Much the same as royals did before WW2. That has been put forward for several years, (and is the pattern of most Continental royals, who incidentally don?t have a Commonwealth.) And the many hundreds of patronages that the QM, Queen, PP and the old Gloucesters did per year was to be sure, definitely not efficient.
Whether the British people though will be very content paying out millions per year in taxes going in part to Sovereign Grant money for what many would see as one quarter the work that the late Queen did, we will have to wait and see.
And as for visibility, it?s well known that the Cambridges/Wales are the media?s darlings and have a full roster of RRs trailing around after them while many of the engagements undertaken by Anne, Sophie, Edward etc, and even the King and Camilla get much less publicity. So naturally there is a lot of visibility, on one couple. Whether that will continue in quite the same way as they age (and therefore get less interesting to the media and public) we will have to see.
However a comparison has been made of the number of royals now compared to the beginning of the Queen?s reign. And that is that the majority of the work of the royals was being done then by those in their 20s and 30s with virtually none done by those over 70, while in 2023 about 60% is being done by those over 70 with those in their 40s happy to do about 100 - 200 for the year and of course now there are no working royals in their 20s or 30s.
I know this is the wrong thread, but TLLK, has the aged Mr O? Donavon now stopped publishing his totals of royal engagements for the year now? The Telegraph used to publish them I think. Are there any other totals for 2023 being shown in British newspapers?
I found this from the Telegraph. It?s as well to remember that the majority of the working royals are now over seventy years old with the Kents in their eighties and the Gloucesters nearly eighty. And those royals do the majority of the work.
From the Telegraph.
Princess Anne was the hardest working member of the royal family this year, carrying out 457 royal engagements, 32 more than King Charles.
According to an analysis of public events and official meetings by the Sunday Telegraph, the King ranked in second place, with 425 engagements, while his wife Queen Camilla came in fourth with 233. (Anne is 73, the King 75 and Camilla 76.) The Duke of Edinburgh was third with 297 engagements, and his wife the Duchess of Edinburgh was fifth, with 219 engagements. (Edward is in his sixties. Sophie in her later fifties.)
Prince William and Princess Kate undertook 172 and 128 engagements respectively, with the majority of day-to-day public commitments carried out by royals well into or approaching retirement. The Duke of Gloucester undertook 172 engagements, the same number as William, and the Duchess of Gloucester undertook 117 engagements. The Gloucesters are 79 and 77 years old.
@Curryong-I recall that O'Donovan would wait until the end of December to release his tally. So we might have to wait a couple of weeks. Hopefully he will supply one this year. It seems like more publications do post one now that the Cc is online.
Umm..the DT is incorrect. Prince Edward is 59, and not in his 60's. His birthday is in March.