QuoteThe Duke of Cambridge expressed his "deep sadness" over the Ukraine plane disaster during a speech at an event at Australia House today.
Duke of Cambridge 'saddened' by Ukraine plane disaster - ITV News (http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-07-18/duke-of-cambridge-expresses-deep-sadness-over-ukraine-plane/)
Cindy
QuotePRINCE William spoke of his deep sadness today and expressed his family's condolences to the loved ones of victims of the Malaysian airline disaster over Ukraine.
The Duke of Cambridge, speaking at the unveiling of a statue to the first man to identify Australia as a continent, spoke after it emerged that at least nine Britons and 28 Australians were among the 298 dead after the plane was brought down in a suspected attack by pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine .
More: Prince William mourns the victims of flight MH17 | Royal | News | Daily Express (http://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/489689/Prince-William-mourns-victims-flight-MH17-Malaysia-Airlines-plane-shot-down)
QuoteThe Duke of Cambridge spoke today of his 'deep sadness' over the Ukraine plane disaster.
Speaking at an event at Australia House in London to remember British explorer Captain Matthew Flinders, Prince William said words 'cannot do justice to justice to our sense of loss'.
The 298 people on board the jet included 28 Australians.
The Duke said it was a 'particularly cruel tragedy' for Malaysia coming so soon after the disappearance of another Malaysian Airlines plane, thought to have crashed in Australian waters.
William said: 'I know that I speak for all of us here when I acknowledge our deep sadness following yesterday's disaster in the Ukraine.
More: 'Words cannot do justice to our sense of loss': Prince William pays heartfelt tribute to victims of MH17 disaster | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2697192/Words-justice-sense-loss-Prince-William-pays-heartfelt-tribute-victims-MH17-disaster.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490)
Saddened... The Royals need to buy a Thesaurus...
I don't have an issue with the choice of words. A message of condolences isn't the time to wow with ones vocabulary. I would have more of an issue if they didn't release a message.
:goodpost: You've stated it perfectly Macrobug.
Any words you'd use to express sympathy would be inadequate. "Saddened" says it as well as any--it's simple and suitable. I checked an online thesaurus and didn't see any words that would be better.
QuoteSpeaking at an event at Australia House in London to remember a British explorer, William said words "cannot do justice to our sense of loss".
"For Australians and for our Malaysian brothers and sisters in the Commonwealth, the crash is a particularly cruel tragedy, coming so soon after the loss of MH370," he said.
"Please be assured of my family's thoughs and prayers at this time."
Video: Malaysia Airlines crash: Duke of Cambridge speaks of 'deep sadness' - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/prince-william/10975956/Malaysia-Airlines-crash-Duke-of-Cambridge-speaks-of-deep-sadness.html)
Him coming out with an official statement is all pr. :orchid:
Everyone is dismayed and saddened by this incident. I can't help but think that William ... and the whole Royal Family ... is, too.
Cindy
you would have to be made of stone and empty of all fellow feeling to not be saddened by this tragedy - I may have criticisms of Prince Will but I do not think he is a unfeeling person. I accept his comments are sincere and I am glad a statement was made.
There's a difference in feeling bad about a tragedy and making a press release to be seen. There are many sad things happening around the world right now. Those 200 young African girls are still missing and haven't been found; Israel just invaded Gaza and has been on a bombing campaign that has killed 200 Palestinians and most recently four boys playing soccer on the beach. This is not meant to sound insensitive to this event but this isn't the only sad event happening. To add another point he didn't come out with a statement when that nurse killed herself after that radio joke. Again, I think it's the pr machine behind him that's pushing this new, sensitive and in touch William. I honestly, don't think he cares that much.
He was at an event involving Australians. There were Australians on board the plane. He was making a speech at a preplanned event. It was the right thing to do, He wasn't the only speaker to express condolences.
The Duke and Duchess DID express condolences for the Nurse. I have no idea where this idea that they didn't came from.
PR or not, I think it was an appropriate thing to include something about this in his speech, especially in light of the Australian and UK citizens on board. William was already scheduled to go to this event, and speak at it, so I think if he didn't say anything, we would be upset.
I agree with both of you Lady Adams and Macrobug.
Regarding the nurse, her husband stated that he'd received condolence letters from the PM and the Cambridges.
It was appropriate for Prince William to make a statement. It is a terrible tragedy.
Quote from: Macrobug on July 18, 2014, 02:37:30 PM
I don't have an issue with the choice of words. A message of condolences isn't the time to wow with ones vocabulary. I would have more of an issue if they didn't release a message.
There are other words besides saddened, the royal family's use of silence for all condolence statements and events looks mechanic. Their staff needs to invest in a Thesaurus or two.
He was right to make a statement of course, least of all because he was already speaking there of all places!
Quote from: HsHCharlene on July 18, 2014, 09:53:04 PM
There's a difference in feeling bad about a tragedy and making a press release to be seen. There are many sad things happening around the world right now. Those 200 young African girls are still missing and haven't been found; Israel just invaded Gaza and has been on a bombing campaign that has killed 200 Palestinians and most recently four boys playing soccer on the beach. This is not meant to sound insensitive to this event but this isn't the only sad event happening. To add another point he didn't come out with a statement when that nurse killed herself after that radio joke. Again, I think it's the pr machine behind him that's pushing this new, sensitive and in touch William. I honestly, don't think he cares that much.
The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge said in a statement they were "deeply saddened" by the death of the nurse, named as Jacintha Saldanha.
The St James's Palace statement said the duke and duchess "were looked after so wonderfully well at all times by everybody at King Edward VII Hospital, and their thoughts and prayers are with Jacintha Saldanha's family, friends and colleagues at this very sad time".
BBC News - Duchess of Cambridge hoax call nurse found dead (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20645838)
To say they didn't make a statement about the nurse who killed herself is not accurate.
True, that part of the statement was inaccurate but I still hold my belief that this 'sadness' of the plane crash is pr. Did they make a statement for the previous flight that disappeared, Malaysian flight 370, there were common wealth people on that one too. Why choose this one and not the others. Basically I'm saying I don't believe he really cares about any of this stuff but only says it because his staff is telling him to.
Quote from: HsHCharlene on July 20, 2014, 12:59:27 AM
True, that part of the statement was inaccurate but I still hold my belief that this 'sadness' of the plane crash is pr. Did they make a statement for the previous flight that disappeared, Malaysian flight 370, there were common wealth people on that one too. Why choose this one and not the others. Basically I'm saying I don't believe he really cares about any of this stuff but only says it because his staff is telling him to.
They met with one of the search crews Flight MH370 search crew meet royals (http://www.royal-fans.com/flight-mh370-search-crew-meet-royals/) and mentioned it in a speech Video: Royal tour: Prince William lauds Australia efforts to find missing Malaysia Airlines MH370 plane - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/prince-william/10769557/Royal-tour-Prince-William-lauds-Australia-efforts-to-find-missing-Malaysia-Airlines-MH370-plane.html) ... does that count?
He made a statement about this flight because the disaster happened the day before Will was to make a speech at Australia House, and Australia had a large number of individuals on board the flight. It would have been insensitive to ignore it. I'm sure he was also sad about the other plane that disappeared -- who wasn't -- but he wasn't appearing at a related event immediately thereafter so he didn't make a public statement about it.
Quote from: HsHCharlene on July 20, 2014, 12:59:27 AM
True, that part of the statement was inaccurate but I still hold my belief that this 'sadness' of the plane crash is pr. Did they make a statement for the previous flight that disappeared, Malaysian flight 370, there were common wealth people on that one too. Why choose this one and not the others. Basically I'm saying I don't believe he really cares about any of this stuff but only says it because his staff is telling him to.
I would imagine since the plane's destination was Melbourne and a significant number of Australians were killed that day. To not make a statement as a member of the BRF at a Commonwealth official residence would have been wrong IMO. As for William's level of feeling I do believe that he was saddened to learn about this plane's fate like anyone else would be. His sober demeanor indicates to me that he understand the loss that Australians were feeling.
Heads of State and other dignitaries often issue statements like William's at times of tragedy when human lives have been lost. Although saddened on such occasions (we are all human) it's doubtful that most are personally distraught.
It's hard to put into words what to say to bereaved families and nations in mourning (we are having a day of reflection and remembrance in Australia today, Sunday, for the 28 Aussies dead.) Most of the time words are inadequate and so the old time-worn phrases come out -'deeply saddened', 'thoughts and prayers are with you...' etc. What else can one say?
At the end of the day, he said what was expected of him and what was told for him to say. I still stand by the idea that the palace pr machine was the driving force behind his statement. And I don't believe that it really bothers him much. He can can say all the condolences he wants but it's never off the cuff and never off script. So again, I say it's a script he's told to read and I don't buy his compassion. :shrug:
I doubt it bothered him any more or less than anyone else who doesn't have a personal connection with the tragedy. I understand wha was meant by the "thesaurus" comment- every single condolence statement issued by the royal family tends to use the word "saddened" which, IMHO, makes them seem like canned speeches where the event is changed but the rest of the speech remains the same. I do hope they don't pay their speech writers overly well, because they aren't doing much to earn it!
The King of the Netherlands, Willem-Alexander, also issued a statement saying he was "deeply saddened" by this tragedy.
There were 150+ Dutch citizens on board the flight. Guess he couldn't think of any better words, or maybe he doesn't care, either. But I'll bet he does, and William does, too. I don't know why some people think he doesn't have a heart.
Deeply saddened is how the whole world should feel. There aren't very many words to express that. Anybody find any better words in a Thesaurus or anyplace else that express what you feel? There's a reason for those pro forma sympathy cards we send--there's no better way to say it.
Agreed, Rebound. Personally, I find that sometimes when someone tries to say something outside of the usual words (saddened, deepest sympathies, thoughts and prayers), it just becomes distracting and feels like they're trying to draw attention to themselves or to one-up everyone else's grief and sympathy.
Thanks for all your thoughts on this. However, to me, William never sounds sincere, no matter which words he may have used.
Quote from: SophieChloe on July 20, 2014, 09:20:18 PM
However, to me, William never sounds sincere, no matter which words he may have used.
I think this sums things up nicely. If you think Will is never sincere, then I'm sure anything he says will be lacking. IMO the problem is not the words he uses in a particular situation, it's the impression you have of him generally. It's certainly your right to have that impression, but it explains why those of us who don't have that impression are sometimes confused by what we view as nitpicking perfectly innocuous words or actions.
Yes.. that is the impression I have of him :shrug:. However, it is not up to us here on the Forum to change our opinions of him...but for him to prove himself. And IMO he is failing in that task...badly.
The robotic speeches are not helping :flower:
Quote from: Rebound on July 20, 2014, 08:28:16 PM
The King of the Netherlands, Willem-Alexander, also issued a statement saying he was "deeply saddened" by this tragedy.
There were 150+ Dutch citizens on board the flight. Guess he couldn't think of any better words, or maybe he doesn't care, either. But I'll bet he does, and William does, too. I don't know why some people think he doesn't have a heart.
Deeply saddened is how the whole world should feel. There aren't very many words to express that. Anybody find any better words in a Thesaurus or anyplace else that express what you feel? There's a reason for those pro forma sympathy cards we send--there's no better way to say it.
Quote from: Canuck on July 20, 2014, 09:29:37 PM
Quote from: SophieChloe on July 20, 2014, 09:20:18 PM
However, to me, William never sounds sincere, no matter which words he may have used.
I think this sums things up nicely. If you think Will is never sincere, then I'm sure anything he says will be lacking. IMO the problem is not the words he uses in a particular situation, it's the impression you have of him generally. It's certainly your right to have that impression, but it explains why those of us who don't have that impression are sometimes confused by what we view as nitpicking perfectly innocuous words or actions.
:goodpost: :thumbsup:
But some are drooling over his words....so how does that work, exactly?
All he cares about is polo.... :polo:
Quote from: Canuck on July 20, 2014, 09:29:37 PM
Quote from: SophieChloe on July 20, 2014, 09:20:18 PM
However, to me, William never sounds sincere, no matter which words he may have used.
I think this sums things up nicely. If you think Will is never sincere, then I'm sure anything he says will be lacking. IMO the problem is not the words he uses in a particular situation, it's the impression you have of him generally. It's certainly your right to have that impression, but it explains why those of us who don't have that impression are sometimes confused by what we view as nitpicking perfectly innocuous words or actions.
QFT.
Certain people on here don't like William will never like William or his wife. So whatever he says or does will he criticized.
^^ And some people love Will and Kate and everything they do is amazing, and will be praised. :shrug:
As Sophie Chloe said earlier, this is a Forum, and we're all allowed to have opinions. :hug: :hug: :hug:
Quote from: XeniaCasaraghi on July 20, 2014, 09:52:44 PM
QFT
Certain people on here don't like William will never like William or his wife. So whatever he says or does will he criticized.
On the flip-side, no matter how damn lazy the pair are they will always be excused.
Quote from: Lady Adams on July 20, 2014, 09:55:37 PM
^^ And some people love Will and Kate and everything they do is amazing, and will be praised. :shrug:
As Sophie Chloe said earlier, this is a Forum, and we're all allowed to have opinions. :hug: :hug: :hug:
Thanks, LA! Jeez it's not that hard to understand, surely? :Lothwen:
Quote from: SophieChloe on July 20, 2014, 09:20:18 PM
Thanks for all your thoughts on this. However, to me, William never sounds sincere, no matter which words he may have used.
I didn't want to get into two threads in which I felt mutual sentiments about yesterday, but I think they should get in touch with Disney Imagineers and hire someone from Madame Tussauds, then have a pre-recorded "greatest hits" of William/Kate-isms, and call it a day.
Seriously, who would even notice at this point?
^ :hehe: :notworthy:
Quote from: SophieChloe on July 20, 2014, 09:36:24 PM
Yes.. that is the impression I have of him :shrug:. However, it is not up to us here on the Forum to change our opinions of him...but for him to prove himself. And IMO he is failing in that task...badly.
The robotic speeches are not helping :flower:
I think that was covered when Canuck said "
It's certainly your right to have that impression, but it explains why those of us who don't have that impression are sometimes confused by what we view as nitpicking perfectly innocuous words or actions."
It's like people are saying the same thing in two slightly different languages, and thinking they're arguing.
Yes, that's why I said "that is the impression I have of him" :shrug:
Just like when some 'big-up' William for being just William. One could say blowing smoke up the royal backside.
I agree SophieChloe. Minus the HRH, the guys not accomplished anything more other than temporarily work, which millions of other men have accomplished and then some so I don't quite get the blind praise, but it's a personal choice.
Well said, HG!
He's helped save a few human lives. I'd think that's quite an accomplishment.
Cindy
He helped get some people out of a few scrapes. He hardly gave the Kiss of Life. And IMO there was no way he was ever put in any danger.
IMO a case of bigging up his part. Nothing new there.
Quote from: SophieChloe on July 20, 2014, 11:25:48 PM
Yes, that's why I said "that is the impression I have of him" :shrug:
Just like when some 'big-up' William for being just William. One could say blowing smoke up the royal backside.
I'm sorry, I'm not even sure how that's even a response to what I said. I think I may have been unclear.
Canuck said "it's your right" (i.e. "there is no obligation for you to change you to change")
And you said "However, it's not up to me to change" (i.e. "But it's my right")
It's that disconnect when it seems like you're contradicting something Canuck said by starting with "however", but then restating their point.
My point had nothing to do with what it actually is that you believe, or what it actually is that anyone who's a fan believes, or anything at all to do with William. I just get really baffled by some of the communication here. There's so much contrariness that people use contrary language when they're making the same point.
...Like I said, he's temporarily worked. And also like I said, it's no more than millions such as firemen, ambulance personnel, doctors, police officers, and nurses; most of whom receive neither the praise nor perks that he does. He worked, he was not the only member of the group that's saved lives.
Now if that's enough to some for blind praise and forgiveness for any other accomplishment in life, thats wholly and completely a personal choice which I do respect, but the fact that he's a royal to me personally does not warrant him any more praise than is deserved. He did his job, which is expected; like it's expected of pretty much everyone else.
Quote from: Adrienne on July 21, 2014, 12:06:52 AM
Quote from: SophieChloe on July 20, 2014, 11:25:48 PM
Yes, that's why I said "that is the impression I have of him" :shrug:
Just like when some 'big-up' William for being just William. One could say blowing smoke up the royal backside.
I'm sorry, I'm not even sure how that's even a response to what I said. I think I may have been unclear.
Canuck said "it's your right" (i.e. "there is no obligation for you to change you to change")
And you said "However, it's not up to me to change" (i.e. "But it's my right")
It's that disconnect when it seems like you're contradicting something Canuck said by starting with "however", but then restating their point.
My point had nothing to do with what it actually is that you believe, or what it actually is that anyone who's a fan believes, or anything at all to do with William. I just get really baffled by some of the communication here. There's so much contrariness that people use contrary language when they're making the same point.
Sorry if I have confused you, Adrienne. I have the feeling we will never agree and I am not prepared to argue the toss with you... :hug:
Double post auto-merged: July 21, 2014, 12:15:16 AM
Quote from: HistoryGirl on July 21, 2014, 12:07:22 AM
...Like I said, he's temporarily worked. And also like I said, it's no more than millions such as firemen, ambulance personnel, doctors, police officers, and nurses; most of whom receive neither the praise nor perks that he does. He worked, he was not the only member of the group that's saved lives.
Now if that's enough to some for blind praise and forgiveness for any other accomplishment in life, thats wholly and completely a personal choice which I do respect, but the fact that he's a royal to me personally does not warrant him any more praise than is deserved. He did his job, which is expected; like it's expected of pretty much everyone else.
Exactly...he got paid, didn't he.
He left that role ages ago...what has he achieved since?
Quote from: cinrit on July 20, 2014, 11:57:53 PM
He's helped save a few human lives. I'd think that's quite an accomplishment.
Cindy
I agree Cindy. He could have picked a desk job but didn't :thumbsup:
At this point he needs to pick ANY job...!
Quote from: SophieChloe on July 21, 2014, 12:11:42 AM
Quote from: Adrienne on July 21, 2014, 12:06:52 AM
Quote from: SophieChloe on July 20, 2014, 11:25:48 PM
Yes, that's why I said "that is the impression I have of him" :shrug:
Just like when some 'big-up' William for being just William. One could say blowing smoke up the royal backside.
I'm sorry, I'm not even sure how that's even a response to what I said. I think I may have been unclear.
Canuck said "it's your right" (i.e. "there is no obligation for you to change you to change")
And you said "However, it's not up to me to change" (i.e. "But it's my right")
It's that disconnect when it seems like you're contradicting something Canuck said by starting with "however", but then restating their point.
My point had nothing to do with what it actually is that you believe, or what it actually is that anyone who's a fan believes, or anything at all to do with William. I just get really baffled by some of the communication here. There's so much contrariness that people use contrary language when they're making the same point.
Sorry if I have confused you, Adrienne. I have the feeling we will never agree and I am not prepared to argue the toss with you... :hug:
Well, I'm not even sure what it is you think you don't agree with me on, and didn't realize we were arguing, so I'm fine with leaving it there.
Let's not make this thread about me....sorry if you misinterpreted my post :)
You know, I was watching TV and I heard something that rang so true to me. They were describing the life of Steve Irwin (the Crocodile Hunter for those that don't know) and people discussed how insane the things that he did were and why we as an audience could be so thoroughly entertained by him even though he was doing such dangerous things that eventually lead to his death. And this reporter said that the reason was that we admire people that have such a love and dedication to their profession that they look genuinely happy to be a part of it even if it's not the most glamorous and even when it is.
Now I obviously can't speak for everyone that critiques (I use the word critique instead of hate or criticize purposefully), but for me personally that's where I can't really support Williams royal duty. That love and dedication doesn't come through to me. I don't see the enthusiasm in his eyes that was there from his mother. She was shy too so I know that it's not a personality problem which is what is commonly used to explain why Harry seems more involved than William. Idk, the genuine desire to help doesn't come across whenever he's involved and it may be my expectations being too high and if that is the case then I am willing to accept that and apologize for putting that on him.
What a wonderful post, HG! :notworthy:
Thanks SophieChloe :) It's the truth, at the end of the day, to me, it's not about semantics or the types of duties he does. It's about the notion that even there, I just see someone who just *has* to be there. And it's also true that William owes me less than nothing...I'm not even British lol but, that is my impression of him. i know he's the heir and with that comes decorum that Harry doesn't need to have, but in Harry's words and actions I see sincerity and that to me is worth everything.
Quote from: Canuck on July 20, 2014, 09:29:37 PM
Quote from: SophieChloe on July 20, 2014, 09:20:18 PM
However, to me, William never sounds sincere, no matter which words he may have used.
I think this sums things up nicely. If you think Will is never sincere, then I'm sure anything he says will be lacking. IMO the problem is not the words he uses in a particular situation, it's the impression you have of him generally. It's certainly your right to have that impression, but it explains why those of us who don't have that impression are sometimes confused by what we view as nitpicking perfectly innocuous words or actions.
[mod] You may, of course, be sensitive to impressions and opinions expressed by posters, you may not, however, classify any comment or opinion as nitpicking, you may express that you disagree by explaining why or simply stating so, however, addressing posts you disagree with by making negative remarks about the poster is disrespectful. The posters who are sensitive to criticism about their favorite royal enough to classify publicly posters or opinions expressed on the forum by a poster by using such words should look within themselves and find that to those who deem a behavior unbecoming, the glowing praise and excusing of such behavior by the royal might also be hard to understand. Remember, there are two sides to every story and, it is a requirement of this forum that we are respectful of all opinions expressed and express our disagreements civilly, courteously and respectfully. If a post is confusing to you, I suggest, respectfully asking the poster to expand or explain using innocuous words... [/mod]
Quote from: HistoryGirl on July 21, 2014, 12:26:57 AM
You know, I was watching TV and I heard something that rang so true to me. They were describing the life of Steve Irwin (the Crocodile Hunter for those that don't know) and people discussed how insane the things that he did were and why we as an audience could be so thoroughly entertained by him even though he was doing such dangerous things that eventually lead to his death. And this reporter said that the reason was that we admire people that have such a love and dedication to their profession that they look genuinely happy to be a part of it even if it's not the most glamorous and even when it is.
Now I obviously can't speak for everyone that critiques (I use the word critique instead of hate or criticize purposefully), but for me personally that's where I can't really support Williams royal duty. That love and dedication doesn't come through to me. I don't see the enthusiasm in his eyes that was there from his mother. She was shy too so I know that it's not a personality problem which is what is commonly used to explain why Harry seems more involved than William. Idk, the genuine desire to help doesn't come across whenever he's involved and it may be my expectations being too high and if that is the case then I am willing to accept that and apologize for putting that on him.
Excellent observations and analysis, History Girl. I think you're spot on. When I see CP Victoria with her daughter on engagements, I observe someone who sees, and wants to teach, that royal duties are both an obligation
and unique joy. With William, I see the polar opposite. And that is, of course, fine. William can give up his titles and live as a private citizen on his trust and salary as an air pilot if he dislikes royal life so much.
There's a proverb that applies here:
to whom much is given, much is expected.
Quote from: Lady Adams on July 21, 2014, 02:20:41 AM
There's a proverb that applies here: to whom much is given, much is expected.
Neither William nor Kate ever received that memo... :orchid:
^Maybe we should send it to them in a greeting card?
I don't think his reading material would include anything that could be perceived as an invitation to selflessness and/or sacrifice...
The saddest part is they don't seem to care at all what people think.
Quote from: Limabeany on July 21, 2014, 01:04:03 AM
Quote from: Canuck on July 20, 2014, 09:29:37 PM
Quote from: SophieChloe on July 20, 2014, 09:20:18 PM
However, to me, William never sounds sincere, no matter which words he may have used.
I think this sums things up nicely. If you think Will is never sincere, then I'm sure anything he says will be lacking. IMO the problem is not the words he uses in a particular situation, it's the impression you have of him generally. It's certainly your right to have that impression, but it explains why those of us who don't have that impression are sometimes confused by what we view as nitpicking perfectly innocuous words or actions.
You may, of course, be sensitive to impressions and opinions expressed by posters, you may not, however, classify any comment or opinion as nitpicking, you may express that you disagree by explaining why or simply stating so, however, addressing posts you disagree with by making negative remarks about the poster is disrespectful. The posters who are sensitive to criticism about their favorite royal enough to classify publicly posters or opinions expressed on the forum by a poster by using such words should look within themselves and find that to those who deem a behavior unbecoming, the glowing praise and excusing of such behavior by the royal might also be hard to understand. Remember, there are two sides to every story and, it is a requirement of this forum that we are respectful of all opinions expressed and express our disagreements civilly, courteously and respectfully. If a post is confusing to you, I suggest, respectfully asking the poster to expand or explain using innocuous words...
I certainly didn't mean to suggest that anyone else's opinion was invalid or that they were required to explain or change it. But I'm not really sure why saying that I view something as nitpicking (not that it is, just that that is my opinion) is different or worse than saying "some 'big-up' William for being just William. One could say blowing smoke up the royal backside" as SophieChloe did, or that positive comments are "blind praise" as HistoryGirl did. :shrug:
[mod]William is not a poster in this forum. William is the subject of many threads in this forum. Posters or their opinions are not fair game for name calling however much you may dislike, disagree or be confused by the opinions expressed regarding William or any other subject of the threads in this forum under our community standards... Anything you would not like to be called is disrespectful. If your opinion includes name calling, then it is not respectful. Let's practice expressing our opinion without negatively classifying other posters and their opinions. [/mod]
Quote from: Rebound on July 20, 2014, 08:28:16 PM
Deeply saddened is how the whole world should feel. There aren't very many words to express that. Anybody find any better words in a Thesaurus or anyplace else that express what you feel? There's a reason for those pro forma sympathy cards we send--there's no better way to say it.
Devastated
Heart broken
Disgusted
Depressed
Crestfallen
Heavy hearted
Mournful
Unhappy
Sorrowful
And I didn't need a thesaurus to come up with plenty of suitable synonyms!
[admin]Please return to the topic - please take any additional off-topic comments to Private Message - thank you![/admin]
Quote from: Jenee on July 21, 2014, 03:24:26 AM
Quote from: Rebound on July 20, 2014, 08:28:16 PM
Deeply saddened is how the whole world should feel. There aren't very many words to express that. Anybody find any better words in a Thesaurus or anyplace else that express what you feel? There's a reason for those pro forma sympathy cards we send--there's no better way to say it.
Devastated
Heart broken
Disgusted
Depressed
Crestfallen
Heavy hearted
Mournful
Unhappy
Sorrowful
And I didn't need a thesaurus to come up with plenty of suitable synonyms!
Am I to believe that people would find it *more* believable that William (or any public figure, really) was devastated, depressed, or heartbroken by the loss of the flight? Frankly, I roll to disbelieve.
If he used most of those adjectives in a speech, my reaction would best be described as "pull the other one, it has bells on".
The Dutch King used the exact same phrase. I didn't realise 'deeply saddened' was such a controversial choice of words.
Just an overused and abused one...
Quote from: Limabeany on July 21, 2014, 03:46:21 AM
Just an overused and abused one...
Yes thank you, that's exactly my point!
I believe the BRF has used some but not all of those synonyms and still do; when Nelson Mandela died they were devastated, when Di died they were mournfully.
On another note, seems like Charles assessment a couple of months ago about Putin is a I told you so.
Quote from: PrincessOfPeace on July 21, 2014, 03:43:58 AM
The Dutch King used the exact same phrase. I didn't realise 'deeply saddened' was such a controversial choice of words.
King Harald of Norway also used those same words. I didn't see any discussion about how inappropriate it was when he said them.
Cindy
Quote from: cinrit on July 21, 2014, 10:44:34 AM
Quote from: PrincessOfPeace on July 21, 2014, 03:43:58 AM
The Dutch King used the exact same phrase. I didn't realise 'deeply saddened' was such a controversial choice of words.
King Harald of Norway also used those same words. I didn't see any discussion about how inappropriate it was when he said them.
Cindy
Oh. Well, in that case, maybe we should have a comparative analysis of the cost of monarchy per capita of each and every constitutional monarchy in Europe, and whether citizens are getting a return on their investment in the context of heirs. That would require a completely different thread though.
I would, but I don't want to write up an entire "TL;DR", since we live in a snippets, soundbites, and short attention span culture thanks to the internet. (No, the irony is not lost on me while typing this out.) If there's legitimate interest, I wouldn't mind it. It seems like a worthwhile, thought provoking discussion.
Quote from: Lady Adams on July 21, 2014, 02:20:41 AM
Excellent observations and analysis, History Girl. I think you're spot on. When I see CP Victoria with her daughter on engagements, I observe someone who sees, and wants to teach, that royal duties are both an obligation and unique joy. With William, I see the polar opposite. And that is, of course, fine. William can give up his titles and live as a private citizen on his trust and salary as an air pilot if he dislikes royal life so much.
There's a proverb that applies here: to whom much is given, much is expected.
Succinct comparison, LA!
I find it interesting that both heir apparents are seemingly polar opposites in terms of how they contribute meaningfully. If the stories of Victoria's rejection from her father are true, they both experienced abandonment in different senses of the word. Victoria's anorexia, supposedly, was a self-induced trial provoked by her father's rejection that she had to confront and overcome. Where as William's trial (I'm not diminishing death, so everyone please dash that notion from your skulls), was met with sheltering and coddling.
Quote from: DaisyMeRollin on July 21, 2014, 04:00:44 PM
Oh. Well, in that case, maybe we should have a comparative analysis of the cost of monarchy per capita of each and every constitutional monarchy in Europe, and whether citizens are getting a return on their investment in the context of heirs. That would require a completely different thread though.
Does that mean I'm to understand that if William did enough of the work you deem he should be doing in order to justify the peoples' contribution to his lifestyle, then it would be okay for him to use the word "saddened"? But if I'm to believe that, then I must also want to believe that the word isn't really the problem.
Cindy
Not even interested in the discussion on semantics and who said what (I did a double-take at myself for this weekend's thread. Wowie! I can admit fault for allowing myself to be wrangled into that song and dance.), but if we're going to bring in quotes of other figureheads around Europe while Will and Harry are working playing with ponies, sure.
But his statement wasn't made while playing hockey or polo. He was attending and speaking at an important engagement.
Cindy
William (IMO) does not have a genuine bone in his body. He is all take, take, and take some more. "Saddened" my arse.
Quote from: cinrit on July 21, 2014, 08:40:22 PM
But his statement wasn't made while playing hockey or polo. He was attending and speaking at an important engagement.
Cindy
Yes, I know.
See, now you're getting hung up on minutia instead of addressing the crux of the problem. If you're going to use quotations from the sentiments expressed by other regal figureheads around Europe as a very simplistic rebuttal, we can talk about their contributions over their lives as a collective in comparison to William, or we can go back to arguing vacuously about semantics and the degenerative qualities of "Na-na na-na boo-boo! Well, so and so said 'X'!" The point is moot.
Do you see where I'm finding fault in this excuse? It's throwing others under the bus in a very LCD way to uphold William.
Quote from: cinrit on July 21, 2014, 08:40:22 PM
But his statement wasn't made while playing hockey or polo. He was attending and speaking at an important engagement.
Cindy
I agree. William was at an official event in Australia House the day after the disaster. I believe 27 Aussies were killed and I think it was entirely appropriate for William to make the comments he did.
Imagine the 'outrage' if he didn't?
I agree with Adrienne. No matter what words William used, he would be criticized. Remember, he was speaking, I assume, for his royal family, or perhaps the nation.
I won't go thru the list of words individually, but do you really think "unhappy" would be suitable? "Disgusted"--too political for the RF; "crestfallen"--he would be mocked over that for sure.
Sometimes simple words are best. I see nothing wrong with "deeply saddened". And I'm a little shocked that people think he has no feelings.
Also, why does anyone need to bring Harry into it?
^^^ :goodpost:
I'd like to take the time to thank our reporters for keeping us informed about this tragedy. :thumbsup: It's not an easy topic to discuss. We've had William's response which IMO was sincere and appropriate to the Australian people. The political leaders of the UK and other nations will have the task of dealing with the Russians and Ukrainians on the ongoing recovery and investigation.
Just an FYI...
The Dutch forum has updates on W-A and Maxima's responses with translations. The Dutch royal website also has a video of W-A's statement to the nation (in Dutch). IMHO this is their' "9-11" if you consider the impact upon this small kingdom when nearly 200 of their citizens were murdered last week.
Also there is an active thread on the disaster to discuss the crash, recovery efforts and updates from the Ukraine, Australia, UK, NL, Malaysia etc... and the world's response to this senseless tragedy.
:cry:
The fifth photograph from the bottom is an exquisite and elegant example of a condolence message, for those who were wondering why 'saddened' felt so overused. And, like this, there are as many ways as there are people to express condolence in a manner that expresses such feelings of sympathy in a uniquely your own. At such a difficult time, this was beautifully expressed.
Quote from: sara8150 on July 23, 2014, 08:14:42 PM
Tears for the MH17 crash victims: Dutch royals and grieving relatives watch as first bodies arrive back in Holland in dignified ceremony that shames (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2702482/The-sad-final-journey-home-Bodies-MH17-victims-loaded-transport-plane-Ukraine-airport-begin-trip-Netherlands-painstaking-identification-process.html)
I agree it's a lovely message. It also would have been totally inappropriate coming from Will, as opposed to the airport from which the plane took off, in the country from which the vast majority of victims came. Deepest sympathy (as in that message) or saddened are, IMO, perfectly good ways of expressing how sad this event is without trying to make it all about yourself.
It is a lovely message. So was Williams.
Cannuck and Macrobug-I agree with the both of you.
If anyone has had the opportunity to view the arrival ceremony yesterday I'm sure that you found it as moving as I did. The cooperation between the NL and Australia with additional help from other nations was a bright spot in a very sad week since this event.
the message from the airport was very well done and yes Will's remarks were a bit cliché but I am sure his remarks were heartfelt. Will definitely does not strike me as being the touchy feely sort - he seems to be of the stiff upper lip type in public so I would not expect anything more from him.
I thought the Netherlands did a superb job - and I especially admired that there were no speeches - just dignified quiet and mourning. Well done Netherlands!
I'm sure all countries that lost people were very grateful and touched by the condolences expressed by every single world leader and representatives of the various countries, regardless of wording or the person expressing it. I'm sure we all feel deeply saddened by these events.
Quote from: Limabeany on July 24, 2014, 10:58:03 AM
The fifth photograph from the bottom is an exquisite and elegant example of a condolence message, for those who were wondering why 'saddened' felt so overused. And, like this, there are as many ways as there are people to express condolence in a manner that expresses such feelings of sympathy in a uniquely your own. At such a difficult time, this was beautifully expressed.
Quote from: sara8150 on July 23, 2014, 08:14:42 PM
Tears for the MH17 crash victims: Dutch royals and grieving relatives watch as first bodies arrive back in Holland in dignified ceremony that shames (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2702482/The-sad-final-journey-home-Bodies-MH17-victims-loaded-transport-plane-Ukraine-airport-begin-trip-Netherlands-painstaking-identification-process.html)
Thanks Lima, that was a very nice example. And it was heartbreaking to look at those photographs, the miles of hearses, the moments if silence at the airport. What a tragedy.
Yes, that was simply heart wrenching. It really brought the point home of all the lives that were lost, one at a time.
I understand that more flights will be met by members of the government as they return to the NL.