The new royal titles for Archie and Lilibet 2023

[HistoryGirl2]

@HistoryGirl2 and @Amabel2 - I doubt that Charles would have denied them the titles, but the option did remain. As to the announcement, I have read that the Sussexes have requested to not have the monarchy speak on their behalf, so" the ball was in their court" so to say  as to when they wanted to shared the news. With all the publicity activity that the couple had going into November, December and January for the docuseries and Spare, I can see why they'd want to wait on the announcement of the children's titles. Waiting until the publicity died down and then they could share fresh news in the late winter and early spring seems logical to me.

Gotcha. Yes, he could have denied them. But that would involve an entire library?s worth of books from Harry, so I think don?t think Charles was interested in hearing the complaints from now to eternity.

[FanDianaFancy]

Catching up reading your posts
1.   HRH Prince Archie and HRHPrincess Lillbet are their birthright titles since the day they were born. These are their birthright titles since before they were born. These are their birthright titles since 1917 ok., and even before that.  There is nothing new or shocking that their grandfather formally did this as it was known and expected when he became K of E.
The Q of E was not  Prince Archie and Princess Lillbets grandparent.

2.     KC and TPTB handled it properly by not commenting. Do not comment on Sussex. Sussex speak for themselves. On everything, anything.

3.      Yes Megan and Henry lied in Oprah , but that is Sussex way. Lie. Imply. Throw your hands up and let others run with racists stories against BRF ( #1 enemies Charles and William) and anything else ( Camilla and Catherine).

[TLLK]

Catching up reading your posts
1.   HRH Prince Archie and HRHPrincess Lillbet are their birthright titles since the day they were born. These are their birthright titles since before they were born. These are their birthright titles since 1917 ok., and even before that.  There is nothing new or shocking that their grandfather formally did this as it was known and expected when he became K of E.
The Q of E was not  Prince Archie and Princess Lillbets grandparent.

2.     KC and TPTB handled it properly by not commenting. Do not comment on Sussex. Sussex speak for themselves. On everything, anything.

3.      Yes Megan and Henry lied in Oprah , but that is Sussex way. Lie. Imply. Throw your hands up and let others run with racists stories against BRF ( #1 enemies Charles and William) and anything else ( Camilla and Catherine).

@FanDianaFancy -Thank you for pointing this fact out. Yes the late QEII was not the grandparent of young Archie and Lilibet. She was their great-grandmother.
The Sussex children were not meant to have the titles of Prince or Princess until their grandfather ascended to the throne.

I also agree with those who agree that the BRF should honor the alleged request from the Sussexes to not speak on their behalf.

[Amabel2]

Catching up reading your posts
1.   HRH Prince Archie and HRHPrincess Lillbet are their birthright titles since the day they were born. These are their birthright titles since before they were born. These are their birthright titles since 1917 ok., and even before that.  There is nothing new or shocking that their grandfather formally did this as it was known and expected when he became K of E.
T

No,  it was not Archie's title from the day he was born, only from the day his grandfather became King

[TLLK]

Why Do Prince Harry and Meghan Markle Want to Use Royal Titles?
Considering how the Sussexes appear to have negative feelings associated with royal titles, I've been curious as to why the couple have been eager for their children to have them and to declare that they will use them in a formal setting for their little ones, Archie and Lilibet.

Like her husband, the Duchess of Sussex  has stated that she believes that the royal titles have the potential to cause pain. Personally if I was in their place, I would have issued a joint statement with monarch that  an agreement had been reached that the children do have them but that the titles would not be used during their childhood and adolescence. I would also clarify  that the children could make their own decision when they reach adulthood. However that's my own opinion and it clearly doesn't align with the Sussexes' at this point in time.

Meghan expressed major doubts about the impact of having a title during their 2021 Oprah Winfrey interview: "It's not our decision to make, right? Even though I have a lot of clarity on what comes with the titles, good and bad?and from my experience, a lot of pain. I, again, wouldn't wish pain on my child, but that is their birthright to then make a choice about."

One possible reason:

Harry and Meghan?despite quitting royal life?continue to style themselves the Duke and Duchess of Sussex and will seemingly also now refer to their children as Prince Archie and Princess Lilibet in formal contexts.

One reason for this may lie in a statement their spokesperson released on Thursday: "The children's titles have been a birthright since their grandfather became Monarch. This matter has been settled for some time in alignment with Buckingham Palace."

In other words, they may have mixed feelings about the impact of titles but are perhaps more certain about their desire to stop their children losing what they are rightfully owed by a hereditary monarchy.

However, the decision still comes with reputational risks as American public opinion has swung sharply away from believing the couple should have titles.

Are the couple sending mixed messages to the public when their previous statements regarding the monarchy and the BRF strongly implied that they believed that the titles were something negative? Yes I have to agree that their messages are mixed and a tad confusing.

As recently as December 5, 43 percent of Americans wanted them to keep their titles, while 27 percent wanted the Sussexes stripped of them in polling by Redfield & Wilton for Newsweek, showing how fast the tide has turned.

Edward Coram James, chief executive of PR agency Go Up, told Newsweek: "On the one hand they are saying they don't know whether they are going to go to the coronation, and yet on the other hand they are styling their children prince and princess.

"Of course, they can do what they want with their children's titles but its just another example of inconsistent and slightly confusing messaging from the Sussexes.

"Confusing messages don't usually play well with the public and that is why we have seen their popularity tank.

"The implications are obvious, which is that they recognize that their only currency is being royal. Their optics are all over the place and it just shows such a lack of consistency in their messaging.

"Do they want to be royal or do they not want to be royal? Do they respect the royal family as an institution or do they think it's a relic of the past and a symbol of racism and colonialism?

"Essentially they need to work out what it is they actually believe and what it is they feel."
Meghan Markle at Queen's Funeral
Meghan Markle is seen at Queen Elizabeth II's funeral at Westminster Abbey in London on September 19, 2022. Marko Djurica - WPA Pool/Getty Images

There is another potential issue for Harry and Meghan in their messaging too. One criticism leveled at the couple after their Netflix docuseries was that their royal story can sometimes feel one-sided and relentlessly negative, giving too little time to the positive aspects and privileges of their royal lives.

In that respect, it is perhaps striking that the Sussexes would level such damaging allegations at the royal family over the issue of titles when speaking to Oprah Winfrey in March, 2021, and then leave it six months following Charles' accession before revealing that their children are in fact prince and princess after all.

The long silence was followed by a confusing announcement that forced both sides to clarify the situation, creating a tense public and media atmosphere.

Not the first time, Charles' monarchy appears to be offering an olive branch while Harry is seemingly unwilling to acknowledge it, nor to offer any positivity in return.


   

[Amabel2]

Did you honestly think that they would fail to use the titles for the children? 

[TLLK]

I believe that the couple will choose to use them. However I shared my own opinion as to how I would handle the situation if I was in their position.

A recent YouGov UK poll released on Monday 3/13/23  found that the majority of those polled didn't approve of  the children having the royal titles even though they considered to be Prince and Princess through the Letters Patent of 1917.

Archie and Lilibet titles: poll shows most Britons don't approve

A YouGov poll released on Monday showed that 51% of all respondents thought that the Sussex children shouldn't have the titles, compared with 25% who thought they should. 24% of those polled, didn't know.

[Amabel2]

Well i suppose most of the public who were polled feel that if they complained so much about genetic pain etc, why would they want thier kids to have titles from that family, esp when thye are living in the US.

[HistoryGirl2]

You wanna know another word for confusing and inconsistent? Hypocritical.  It doesn?t really matter to me whether their children have titles or not, but I think the majority of the public sees through their hypocrisy and doesn?t like it.

Harry: ?I?m so glad I?m finally free. Meghan saved me from the awful monarchy!!?

Also Harry: ?My children have a birthright to those titles. How dare the monarchy think they can deny them?!?!?!?

It?s the typical wanting to have your cake and eat it, too. How could whining about not having a the best and biggest royal property or not having the light hit perfectly in your palace apartment go down well in the middle of a recession?

[Amabel2]

well yes Im sure that whatever Charles might have said, if he had made a statement, he would have been attacked by the couple.   If he had said in last September that the children were now HRH Prince and Pss Lilibet he would be accused of dragging the children into a world of pain..
and if he had, as he could have, issued LPs that the children were NOT now oging to be HRHs, well he'd be a  monster and a racist.

[HistoryGirl2]

Did you honestly think that they would fail to use the titles for the children?

Honestly, I?d forgotten all about them and assumed that after Harry?s comments recent comments about the monarchy, it wouldn?t be that big of a deal. I continue to try to give them the benefit of the doubt that they?re not being self-serving and continue to be disappointed each and every time.

[FanDianaFancy]

No,  it was not Archie's title from the day he was born, only from the day his grandfather became King

yes. And you are correct to be technical. I am not disputing you.
   Ok. Then. It was his title waiting for him since the day he was born .

[FanDianaFancy]

well yes Im sure that whatever Charles might have said, if he had made a statement, he would have been attacked by the couple.   If he had said in last September that the children were now HRH Prince and Pss Lilibet he would be accused of dragging the children into a world of pain..
and if he had, as he could have, issued LPs that the children were NOT now oging to be HRHs, well he'd be a  monster and a racist.

Exactly. Good move by KingCharles and TPTB. Say nothing on Sussex.

They ( Sussex) have a right to an attorney. Anything you( KC)  say can and will be used against you in a court of woke , on line, social media law, lol.

[Amabel2]

yes. And you are correct to be technical. I am not disputing you.
   Ok. Then. It was his title waiting for him since the day he was born .

Only if his grandfather became king.  It was pretty likely that Charles would become king, but at the time of his birth he was Archie Harrison Mountbatten Windsor, who had the right to the courtesy title of Lord Dumbarton.

[PrincessOfPeace]

Note: Let's try and keep the conversation on titles for Archie and Lilibet as best we can.

Comments, articles and quotes that provide context are fine but let's not go off on too many tangents or the thread will get off track.

Also there's to be no personal comments directed towards individual members questioning their motives. If anyone thinks a comment violates our rules and standards, you can report it to moderation.

[PaulaB]

Yes it?s their birthright.  The thing is harry keeps going on about the toxic and racist royal family and how he escaped it so why does he want them to be associated and have titles especially when they live in @ country where they are meaningless

[Amabel2]

He is trying to get noticed because the Coronaton is coming up, and he wants to show that he and his kids are part of the family.  If the Coronation came up and the kids weren't at it and were still being mentioned as non titled, it woudl be clear that he was being gradually cut loose from the family.  So he had to emphasise his connextion by deciding to have Lili christened, and by using her title.

[TLLK]

This thread has been cleaned up.
The discussion of Prince Harry's army career  has been moved to the appropriate thread. [/url]
The discussion of Prince Harry's relationship with his family members has been moved to the Sussex general chat thread.


Prince Harry's army career

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