Sarah, Duchess of York General Chat

[Curryong]

Does anyone know why Sarah, having been provided with ?500,000 from the Queen in her divorce settlement to buy a new house didn't do so? Instead she rented a home.  A friend and I were talking about this the other evening and my friend said she had to pay off her mother Susan Barrentes debts and property in the Argentine.

Fergie only received a small settlement compared to Diana's because of Andrew's then inconsiderable earning power. However, mother aside, surely her first duty was to secure a home for herself and her daughters. Within a fairly short amount of time the settlement had virtually dissipated (apart from the York girls' trust funds) and Sarah was broke. Just how much did her bolter of a mother cost?

[royalanthropologist]

I really do think they stiffed Sarah good and proper. Once they realized she had lost the moral high ground (who could recover from pictures of the toe-sucking?), the men in grey suits set to work on her.  She negotiated probably one of the worst royal divorce settlements, mainly because she was so embarrassed and panicked by the media expose.

Half a million pounds was not enough to find a suitable house for the queen's grand children. Sarah is also not good at finances so that added to the chaos. It is a miracle she did not end up auctioning herself.  Then she made all that money from weight watchers and blew it all away. It is a bit like yo-yo personal finances.

Diana was in a very different situation. She was the wronged woman and she had the ammunition to make their lives a nightmare so they tread carefully. In the end though, she too was stiffed. Her divorce settlement was no where as high as it could have been had she not been dealing with the palace. They put a gagging order on her and she would forever be subject to the whims of the monarch in residence when it came to her public duties.

[Curryong]

Sarah wasn't subjected to a gagging order apparently, hence the books and interviews afterwards. And, although her statement that she only wanted friendship from the Queen no doubt warmed the cockles of her mother in law's heart, if her lawyers had asked for just another half a million she could have helped her mother AND had some extra money to play with.

I have to say, the Queen/TPTB were remarkably trusting. This woman was a walking disaster area as far as keeping to any sort of budget, rather exuberant and talkative in her private life and was left with no gag order! Yikes!

[oak_and_cedar]

But why couldn't they have been provided with houses on one of the queen's estates? After all they were the mothers of her grandchildren. And Sarah did get a low sum but after her affairs she didn't have the upper hand anymore. Why Diana wasn't provided with an country estate as a mother of the heir is beyond me. They both were left to fend for themselves it seems. Quite callous if you ask me.

[royalanthropologist]

In my view, indecisive or weak people can be incredibly cruel when they eventually act. Everything was left to the very last minute and the queen just did not want to get her hands dirty. Unfortunately when she did actually act, the axe was too heavy in some instances and too light in others.

In hindsight Sarah needed even more gagging orders than Diana but they let her be and she rewarded them with a series of very un-royal stuff. Diana needed to feel that they valued her because her self-esteem was not always there, but they made it absolutely clear that they were rejecting her. In contrast, Sarah who was and is a very naughty girl, has always always had a warm welcome and it would not surprise me if they remarried after the demise of DOE. 

A little bit of good will could have turned Diana into an asset for them even after the divorce, but they blew that as well. Had they treated Diana as warmly as they treat Sarah, I think she would have reciprocated. They would be no more awkwardness about Diana's legacy like there is today (she is person non-grata in royal biographies and they only mention her with gritted teeth).

[Curryong]

Yes, it's a bit odd the way the Queen responded to Fergie from the beginning. I suppose it was the bounciness, the lack of artifice as well as the ease with country life. The Queen is a very shy person and I suppose she's used to people behaving in a very exaggerated way with her, either extremely stiff and thunderstruck or overly deferential. Someone once described Fergie as sitting at Balmoral with her legs apart, cheerfully telling dirty jokes (which apparently the Queen doesn't mind!) It would have been a very different experience.
Double post auto-merged: February 27, 2019, 02:11:07 PM

But why couldn't they have been provided with houses on one of the queen's estates? After all they were the mothers of her grandchildren. And Sarah did get a low sum but after her affairs she didn't have the upper hand anymore. Why Diana wasn't provided with an country estate as a mother of the heir is beyond me. They both were left to fend for themselves it seems. Quite callous if you ask me.

I really don't know why Sarah wasn't given a Sandringham country property like Wood Farm. My only guess is that after the toe sucking episode Philip (who was in charge of the Sandringham and Balmoral estates at the time,) didn't want her anywhere near him. Fergie's great love is Switzerland and the ski slopes anyway. They would have been better buying her a holiday chalet she could rent out when she wasn't using it.

As for Diana, I think they thought her brother would provide a home for her, and if not, well she had all that generous divorce settlement. Estates cost the earth to maintain and I just don't think she would have been able to afford it. She didn't like the countryside much anyway.

[amabel]

But why couldn't they have been provided with houses on one of the queen's estates? After all they were the mothers of her grandchildren. And Sarah did get a low sum but after her affairs she didn't have the upper hand anymore. Why Diana wasn't provided with an country estate as a mother of the heir is beyond me. They both were left to fend for themselves it seems. Quite callous if you ask me.

Why should they be?  Diana didn't like country living and didn't want a country estate.  She got a handsome divorce settlement, and it was a good idea to make sure she didn't talk, as her propensiity for talking was what had cuased the whole divorce.  If the 2 women watned to walk away from the RF, I can't see why the RF should keep them in luxuriy for life.
Double post auto-merged: February 27, 2019, 06:07:45 PM

In my view, indecisive or weak people can be incredibly cruel when they eventually act. Everything was left to the very last minute and the queen just did not want to get her hands dirty. Unfortunately when she did actually act, the axe was too heavy in some instances and too light in others.

In hindsight Sarah needed even more gagging orders than Diana but they let her be and she rewarded them with a series of very un-royal stuff. Diana needed to feel that they valued her because her self-esteem was not always there, but they made it absolutely clear that they were rejecting her. In contrast, Sarah who was and is a very naughty girl, has always always had a warm welcome and it would not surprise me if they remarried after the demise of DOE. 

A little bit of good will could have turned Diana into an asset for them even after the divorce, but they blew that as well. Had they treated Diana as warmly as they treat Sarah, I think she would have reciprocated. They would be no more awkwardness about Diana's legacy like there is today (she is person non-grata in royal biographies and they only mention her with gritted teeth).

It was Diana who wanted out of the RF.  She woudl not stay when invited to Christmas Lunch.. she wnet back to london.. and she coudl hardly expect a very warm private welcome from them when she had behaved teh way she did. 

[LouisFerdinand]

Did not Sarah's father Ronald help to pay off Susan's debts?

[Curryong]

Ronald was divorced from Susan, who had left him decades before for Hector Barrentes, an Argentinian polo player. Ronald had remarried and had a second family. He also had his own money troubles  Divorced people don't usually pay off their ex's debts. Hector should have left enough money for his widow but they had both lived up to their income throughout their married life.

[amabel]

Did not Sarah's father Ronald help to pay off Susan's debts?

? 
Double post auto-merged: February 28, 2019, 06:32:31 PM

Ronald was divorced from Susan, who had left him decades before for Hector Barrentes, an Argentinian polo player. Ronald had remarried and had a second family. He also had his own money troubles  Divorced people don't usually pay off their ex's debts. Hector should have left enough money for his widow but they had both lived up to their income throughout their married life.

Its one of Fergie's good qualities that she loved her mother.. but she's hopeless with money.  If it hadn't been helping her Mum, she would have spent the money on something else..
I think the queen has forgiven her by now, but esp at the time of the divorce she was nto in a mood to be very tolerant and she knew Im sure that however much money Sarah got, she'd fritter it away.  the queen wasn't going to give her a very generous settlement.. She provided for the children and let Sarah sort out her own finances

[oak_and_cedar]

Did Fergie have an education? Or did she go to finishing school and the like?

[Curryong]

Hurst Lodge school, an independent boarding school near Ascot in Berkshire was where Fergie was educated. It wasn't in the top rung of girl's schools but was described as 'turning out jolly chalet girls with not too many O levels'. Like Diana's school I don't think that the teachers there would be throwing themselves off the roof if the pupils didn't achieve distinction in their exams. (Chalet girls were girls from this sort of background who lived and worked in Switzerland helping guests in chalets in ski resorts learn to ski and having a boisterous social life in the evenings with lots of cocktails.)

Fergie didn't go to finishing school but to secretarial college at eighteen. Her father's family and his ex wife's had all the connections in the world, knew royalty, but there was no money left in the family coffers, only a farm, and Major Ferguson's prestigious position at a leading polo club. Fergie worked in a gallery and then for an art publishing firm before she married Andrew.

[oak_and_cedar]

Did the upper classes have something against educating their girls? I don't get it. 'not too many O levels' Why not? Goodness.

She had OK jobs it seems. However, it won't keep you afloat after a divorce to a prince I suppose.

[amabel]

Not if you develop the extravagant tastes that Sarah did....

[Curryong]

Some girls went on to university but not a lot. Some girls' boarding schools had very good O and A level results, others just coasted along. If you look at Camilla's schooling it was the same thing. Don't forget this was forty odd years ago, and more for Cam's generation. It was just felt by upper and middle upper class parents everywhere that their daughters would marry and therefore education for tertiary studies wasn't vital. On the other hand Jane Spencer, Diana's sister got eleven O levels and could have got into university if she'd wanted. Instead she worked for Vogue for a while.

[amabel]

I would have said that education would be wasted on Sarah.. She was never going to get into University..

[LouisFerdinand]

When did Lady Diana Spencer first meet Sarah?

[oak_and_cedar]

When did Lady Diana Spencer first meet Sarah?

I Think Sarah said when they were about 15. I saw it in a Youtube interview with her. Are we allowed to post links to Youtube?

[amabel]

I think that Dianas father dated sarah's mother at one stage..   And Sarah was a cousin of Robin Fellowes who was a friend of the Spencers and then married Jane S.

[sandy]

Diana's father did not date Fergie's mother. He did have an aristo fiancee that he dropped after he met Frances.

Why should they be?  Diana didn't like country living and didn't want a country estate.  She got a handsome divorce settlement, and it was a good idea to make sure she didn't talk, as her propensiity for talking was what had cuased the whole divorce.  If the 2 women watned to walk away from the RF, I can't see why the RF should keep them in luxuriy for life.
Double post auto-merged: February 27, 2019, 06:07:45 PM
It was Diana who wanted out of the RF.  She woudl not stay when invited to Christmas Lunch.. she wnet back to london.. and she coudl hardly expect a very warm private welcome from them when she had behaved teh way she did. 

And she would not have given them a warm welcome when THEY behaved the way they did.

[amabel]

They were the ones inviting HER to stay for Christmas.. but I think she didn't feel comfortable with them..and knew that she was not that popular among the RF and was only invited for the sake of the boys.

[wannable]

Look at Fergie to date, she is in a wonderful situation versus 75% of humans in the planet (the other 15% are middleclass, upper middleclass, the super billionaires living la vida loca) :P

The BRF minus Camilla, looked gleeful at Eugenie's wedding, with the help of mom Sarah. The woman tweeted TMI (Too Much Info)  :hehe:

Honestly, Andrew and her daughters will never let Fergie live under the bridge or all to pot.  She must be skiing, hosting their Verbier 'cottage' (laugh, huge mansion in the slope) as we speak.

Reading some old articles of long gone staffers about the York's,  everyday a 'buffet' is laid out, and sometimes goes 'untouched'.

[sandy]

There are limits to Fergie's being let in. William did not invite he to his wedding and Fergie publicly expressed her unhappiness.

[amabel]

There are limits to Fergie's being let in. William did not invite he to his wedding and Fergie publicly expressed her unhappiness.

She should be glad at the degree of acceptance she has received....

[wannable]

^ Well said.

William would have rolled his eyes continuously, especially (long time royal watchers/seasoned royal correspondents) having the know about loyalty/allegiance, and keep my shite private.
She would probably had tweeted from Nov 2010 to May 2011 (she is very excitable) a bunch of 130 character quasi vom inducing...