How The Duchess of Cornwall Won Our Hearts

[FanDianaFancy]

FDF-IMO Charles and Diana did not have much in common except for their love for their two sons. Their music tastes, friends, interests, education and real life experiences were very different IMO.

What do you believe were interests that they shared?

In common, and I  have said  sometimers in post they had NOTHING inn common.
Actually, they did have in common: two kids and could  have had another son or daughter because  she  def  would  have, if things were different  gone  for  a  third pregnancy so it has been said by thosein the know.
Love of the Arts- She studied  piano as all good girls of her rank and file should  at least know one  musical instrument.
Rank and file of the nobility-Both  patriots  of their country and were of the  nobility/aristos world and knew it well.
Love of the Arts- she  studied ballet   as  a girl adn did well, enjoyed it.
Love of Arts-attending plays.
Work and Duties of BRF-They both  wporked and put  work and their duties  before their  dislike for each  even in the bitter  , final end.
BRF ceremonial things-Ascot, Troooping , etc.
The Beauty and The Brains- well, it could have  a  real superpower couple. She reeling them in and he taking over after that.  See Pres. JFK and JBK-Jack and Jackie.JBKO was formaly educated and spoke  seeral languages though.
Love-She  lovedloved him. Wanted him to love her. When he  broke his arm or whatever, it  was said  she  wanted him and he  , well, Mamma  Camilla was to tend to  her man.
Polo-the game of the nobility/arisots. No, she did not play  or  went riding even, but she went to  Polo games to support him early on.
Conutry and city life-Highgrove wa scoun try life. Where  she grew up was  country life. KP  was their city home. They had both places  but none  for   12 months a year.
Friends/entertainers- if you want to say friends ok, but not really freinds. More of  . Elton John for exa,mple is very  close , freinds with PC andCammila NOW too. He  could have been nin the entertainment friends/socially speaking acquantice  circle  for them for  things like PC  Trust. So really, these kind of people were not really friends-friends .
Some history-She met him when she was really young when he dated her sister and she played with PAndrew.
History-Her birthplace was QEII's estate  ..something like that.
Sports-Swimmer-She was  on school swim team.
Sports-love of skiing in Swiss, skiing
And this is  all we know.
They had somethings, somethings at least to start from, to grow from. It  was not totally a  mismatch, nothing in common.
I  have posted that they  had NOTHING in common as well.


Double post auto-merged: July 07, 2014, 03:48:19 AM

Just some points  to echo what some of you said....
cinritCindy, I did not misread , misunderstand  your post. I will not list the pics BUT THERE IS  NOT ONE, ONE single  photo  in PW  AND PH AND K  are NOT all happy,smily with  PCamilla in the picture.
PH and PW  WILL NOT, and have not ,and WILL NEVER SAY  said anything negative about PCamila in public ESP while QEII is living and PC is living. Then when QEII dies, King C and Queen C  will be and THEY WILL NEVER go against in public with any happy  looks.

Theirs is  a united  front.
NOW if  PCHar should die before QEII dies... we might see some different things.

YES, H and W  love their father. Nicole Simpson kids love OJ and KNOW he did not kill their mother. We ll know he and he knows he did, but do not believe that.
The  Donald Trump children by Ivanna  love their sister by  MarlaMaples and  supported their dad, loved him, was happy as young children as they  could be when he  AND Marla  cheated Ivanna and  BOTH publically  ridicued Ivanna  to the press. It was ugly and even the  )(*(e  said awful things about the Mrs. esp. when she confronted the Mrs. on the Colorado  slpopes.
Thre children were young like H and W  but kids still love their parents and accpet  as much  as they can , at least  on the surface  and esp when that parents is in control, money, power. NO, Ivana NEVER had her choose.  PD did not make her kids choose when she was a live; her or their dad.
That  maraige ended and the  half sister moved with her mother to CA. They  get along with the new wife adn all three kids by Ivanna are  leading , working with their father in his empire. 

YES, many  regular folks  who are wronged by the spouse  really  take that anger  and hurt on the kids and pit them against the other parent. Worst thing to do. Some  regular kids  side  with one over the other of the own choosing as well.


To sandy, others, YES, Fred C and Gladys  C are very happy together. There is no doubt about that.

YES, Camila The Rotweiller is the WINNERRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  She won it ALLLLL: the throne, the titles, the jewels,palaces, castles ,  place in her country's history,  and the love of her subjects  for they like QEII and PP and  all RBF  MUST accept her. It  is a done deal. When they married, it  was done.
Her ancestor ,Alice Kreepel is onnthe other side and so proud of her  Little girl.   Camila  restored rank and file and  and all for her  family  name, and that of her desendants .

They lived with PC and Cam. Well, the  princes then had  boarding school. TPTB and QEII and PP were there to guide them. Teh house was a castle  or palace with  wings and staff.

I do not  , my op, think  it  was breakfast and dinner with Daddy and Cammy  and Cammy's kids. One big happy family. A Brady  Bunch. His, hers=theirs.

Oh, now I do think and once again, H AND W  will not, have not and will never say anything publically  nor be anything but   smiliy with Cam in public  pictures  and that is when  QEII finally dies and K C and Q C reign, look for her  kids to be at  Balmoral , Sandringham, the Buck Balcony, etc.
Downsizing the BRf  family, well,   future Lady  Lopes can take over duties and Mrs. TBP  can do things as well as K and PH's wife.
The children of THE QUEEN are the BRF. Domyou really think Queen Camilla is going to levae her kids  and not be with them at Balmoral Christamas, etc. I think not. She is the QUEEN and  the QUEEN rules.
All that being said, PH adn PW  HAD BETTER be smiliy face .What can they do? Nothing but be smiliy face when it comes to Cammla, Queen of England.

PC paying for K adn W  ...yeah, he better be  nice nice to the  Daddy's second wife because SHE  is NOT one you want to cross. I think it sae to say that.
NEWSLFASH, wifey  runs the show. Ex. K and W. Cammila adn PC. Regular folks, when the daddy takes a second wife, first set of kids usually  get shut  out  or  have or worst  , spilt with her kids  be them his or not.  WIFE rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
She won!

Winnnig  her  subjects hearts? yes, no,maybe?  Some of them . Who really cares? It does  not matter.  It is irrelevant!!!!

[Canuck]

While this is obviously all guesswork on our parts, I personally believe that Will and Harry get along fine with Camilla.  In part because Camilla and Kate are reported to be fairly close, and I don't think there's any chance that would be the case if Will secretly disliked the woman and was just putting on a good face for public appearances. 

I would think they both had some resentment towards Camilla (and their father, and probably Diana as well) when they were growing up with all that mess, but it sounds like after Diana's death Charles handled things well -- he introduced Camilla to them slowly, and didn't push them to accept her more quickly than they were ready for.  I think that probably went a long way toward the boys accepting her.

[sandy]

It is only "reported" that kate and Camilla are "close." Kate has a family that she is close too and I doubt she is anywhere as "close" to Camilla as she is to her family. I think there was some spin going on and the "closeness" reports have not been reported since about two years ago. Camilla has her own family, two children and several grandchildren and she spends time with them at Raymill away from the royals.  I think William and Harry are polite to Camilla but they did not grow up with her--she is no "Carol Brady" to them. They also were adults when their father married Camilla and did not live with the couple--they went to schools and military academies and have their own apartments in royal housings.  They will never say anything bad about Camilla and only be polite and cordial to her. But close? I doubt it. As a matter of fact I believe William is a lot closer to the Middletons than Camilla. He spends a lot more time with them and even called Michael Middleton "dad."  I doubt he would ever even think of calling Camilla "Mummy." Harry I think is also cordial to her but the man has his own life now. She is the woman who married their father and fortunately did not have any  hand in raising them.

Harry was 12 when his mother died and a "tween" I doubt he would have any resentment towards his dead mother. Angry that she died perhaps but "resentful" I doubt it. I also doubt William harbors resentment. Why on earth would Diana's two boys resent her--they will never see her again. They mourn her and are sad she can't be with them anymore.

I do think they realize what Camilla did and the role she played and they are not going to be Lovey Dovey with her.

Charles is their father and they respected his wishes about marrying her and did this for his sake IMO.

Charles did not introduce them "slowly"--Diana was not dead one year before the William invites Camilla to tea stories came out. Harry and WIlliam also a little over a year attended the Highgrove party where Camilla attended (but not the Queen or Philip). I do think they had no choice but Charles should have given them more time--it was not as if he was in any hurry to marry Camilla to have more children. Also Charles did not make t heir mother non-negotiable. Charles cousin trashes Diana to the media; an elderly lady in waiting bashed Diana in 2002 on a documentary about the Queen's jubilee year; Penny Junor and Ingrid Seward wrote poison pen books about Diana. Seward and Junor adore Charles so I don't buy the excuse that Charles could do nothing about them. He made Camilla non-negotiable and should have done the same for Diana at least for his sons' sakes.

You don't know how "ready" the boys were to meet their future stepmother. I think it did cause some issues. William and Harry were devoted to their mother and all of a sudden after less than a year Charles not only introduced them but made it very public with all media outlets picking up the "tea" story. I think that perfectly dreadful.

[Canuck]

I agree that Kate is closer to her own family than to Camilla.  I didn't think I was suggesting otherwise.   :hmm:  But Kate and Camilla had what sounded like a very friendly lunch shortly before the wedding, and they are often pictured talking and laughing at events.

The resentment I mentioned was not about Diana's death, but about the very public fight between their parents.  Lots of people connected to the Royal household have said that Diana used to tell the boys more than she perhaps should have about the issues between her and Charles, and both Charles and Diana were going to the press (directly or through surrogates) to tell their side of things.  I would expect that Will and Harry did not particularly enjoy seeing their parents splash those issues all over the papers.  That's why William chose not to invite either of his parents, instead inviting Tiggy Legge-Bourke, to speech day at Eton in 1997.

Obviously things changed when Diana died.  But the boys are from all reports still quite close to their father.  My opinion, for the very little it's worth, is that they are not constantly faking their feelings but are instead exactly what they seem to be -- close to their father, and happy to see him with a woman who makes him happy.

[sandy]

I think a lot of the "friendly" lunch was for PR purposes. The press appeared to have been tipped off.  And Camilla put on quite the show talking in a loud voice giving Kate advice. It was  "happy families"  PR IMO. I think Kate has enough brains not to listen to advice given by Camilla. She has her own family for support and advice.

I don't think Kate and Camilla are close. But they are obviously going to be polite and cordial in public and at various family events. William and Kate spend a lot of time with her parents and I think they are more comfortable with them than they are with Camilla. Kate is not going to rock the boat and be snippy with Camilla--as another poster indicated her father in law is footing many of the bills.

Diana told Harry nothing about Camilla. He was too young. Diana did confide in William but was not the "monster mother" that Charles sympathizers want her to be. She told William things ahead of time that would happen and did stress to both of her sons that she and "Papa" loved each other but could not live together anymore.  Charles OTOH told his autobiographer he felt "forced" to marry their mother. Not a word of love mentioned.

I still think Charles should have made his sons mother non-negotiable after she died. And not used William in Harry in the "happy families" spin about Camilla. Diana is accused by her detractors of "using her sons." But Charles using his sons to try to get the public "accept" Camilla in PR was very wrong.

I think it not commendable of William to invite Tiggy. I think he was cruel to his mother and I think it very wrong that he did this He behaved like a brat. He might for all you know deeply regret this and the guilt about it is with him to this day. He can't invite his mother anyplace anymore and probably would have moved heaven and earth to have had a do-over and invited his mother.

Of course they are close to their father. But this "making their father happy" is a bit much--why can't they think of who their father made happy or makes happy. It feeds into their father's narcissistic behavior--I don't think they had much of a choice re: Camilla.

Harry was said to have started drinking at age 13 at the party for Charles in 1998. I think it was very difficult for him and he was left by his father at Highgrove and had access to the liquor cabinets.

Charles loves his sons but I think he always put the mistress first.

Charles pals started deriding Diana to the press before the Morton book. And Diana feared the nasty stories would cause damage to the degree that she would lose custody of their sons. I blame Charles more for not putting Diana first and dropping the mistress.

[amabel]

While this is obviously all guesswork on our parts, I personally believe that Will and Harry get along fine with Camilla.  In part because Camilla and Kate are reported to be fairly close, and I don't think there's any chance that would be the case if Will secretly disliked the woman and was just putting on a good face for public appearances. 

I

don't know about Kate, but I think hat Will gets on well enough with a country hearty type like Camilla. He was always fond of Tiggy L Bourke, who has similar tastes, and I'm sure he's now over the pain of the break up of his parents marriage.
Double post auto-merged: July 07, 2014, 05:19:36 PM

It was tasteless and insensitive to publish this on the day of Diana's birthday -

I also think that all three of them - Charles Diana and Camilla lived rather carelessly - as if what they did might not have consequences.  The whole thing was horrendous.  The divorce was public and nasty  and of course ends with the death of Diana.  I do not feel sorry for Camilla nor do I admire her.  She made her choices and they were never choices and those choices were never going to have an easy happy ending.  Behavior has consequences.  But I do not wish her any harm nor do I discount that she seems quite personable.

Charles is likely to be King - Camilla is likely to be Queen Consort.   I hope that if Diana had lived she would have made her peace with Charles, Camilla and inside herself.  I think she had become so disenchanted with the RF that she did not want to be Queen - she wanted only to be the mother of the King.  As for Harry and Will - who knows - they have a complicated situation - they live with Charles and Camilla - Diana they have only memories of.  I would think that supporting their father - especially for Harry - would be the important thing for them.
   

No more complicated than any people who have a divorced father who has remarried.  They don't live iwht Charles and Cam, and Diana is I'm sure very much alive to them and they still love her.  They just are able to get on with Camilla as their father's wife.

[sandy]

William likes expensive island vacations. He does not strike me as a country type. He likes hunting but likes the pleasures outside the limits of Balmoral.

I think nobody really gets over a parent's death or their parents' breaking up.l

I don't think he's close to Camilla in the least. He spent a lot of time with Kate's family since they dated. He is more their type than Camilla's.

He loves his father so he accepted Camilla but I don't think he is lovey dovey with Camilla. I think he does have some loyalty to his mother's memory and is not going to get all close with Camilla.

[Canuck]

I'm sure Will felt guilty after Diana's death about not inviting her to one of his last school events she could have attended, but that doesn't mean he was wrong to leave his parents out.  I think it's pretty unfair to call that bratty when he was the kid and his parents were the ones waging public battles with one another without much regard for what it was likely to do to their kids. 

I am in no way a Diana detractor -- I think she was a very admirable person -- but I am realistic about her role in things and don't think of her as a saint.  I agree with those who think that Charles restarted things with Camilla before Diana cheated on him, and that she likely cheated only after finding out.  I also agree with those who think Diana put more dirt in the press than Charles did, though both behaved pretty badly in that regard.  And I do think Diana was incredibly nasty to Tiggy Legge-Bourke, who had done nothing to deserve it, including by publicly insinuating that she'd had an abortion and by insisting that she be left out of the boys' events because she was jealous of how close they were to Tiggy.

I think Will and Harry loved both their parents and that following Diana's death, Charles really stepped up to provide them with support and be as involved as possible in their lives.  I think both of them genuinely love him and want the best for him, and that although they may not have been fans initially, they're now fine with him and Camilla being together. 

As for Charles making Camilla happy, I think it's pretty clear he does.  People can debate whether she deserved the public anger she received or not (my feeling: she did not behave well in carrying on an affair with Charles, but the level of vitriol she received was hugely out of proportion to her "crime", especially after Diana died and the public grief about that sort of got grafted onto everyone's feeling about Camilla).  But if she didn't really love Charles I don't think she would have stuck it out through all the anger and viciousness from the press and public.  She was with him for years where it seemed impossible he would ever be able to marry her or she would ever become Queen, so I don't think she was doing it with the expectation of those things down the road.  I think she just loves him, and is happy they're now married to one another and able to just be together.
Double post auto-merged: July 07, 2014, 05:46:09 PM

As for Kate and Camilla, I have often seen photos of them animatedly talking or laughing at public events.  I think if she was just being polite so as not to upset Charles, she would be doing just that:  being polite and nothing more.  What I've seen has convinced me that Kate does actually like Camilla.  Your opinion may be different, of course.

[sandy]

Of course they talk animatedly but that does not indicate what goes on in both their heads and how they think. It is all speculation how exactly they feel about each other. Kate does have her own family for support and advice though I believe she is polite to Camilla.

You have an opinion about William on that day. I have mine. I think he was bratty and did not do this for 'noble purposes.' His parents despite divorcing adored William and felt the sun rose and set on him. I see him as an ingrate. These are his parents. And his father is still supporting him and Kate.

Tiggy was incredibly nasty to Diana deriding her parenting to the media and calling William and Harry 'her boys'. She had an incredible nerve. She is no saint in her feud with Diana.

I doubt the boys had much choice re: their Dad and Camilla. They are polite and cordial to her but she is not like a "mummy' to them.

Camilla and Charles helped themselves to happiness for years despite the fact they are married to others. I think Charles great love is himself and Camilla's great love is herself.

It was possible for Charles to marry her in the 1970s but he could not be bothered telling her to wait for him. Charles spent big bucks on her "rehabilitation" so he was not doing this to keep her as mistress. She undermined the first wife and got most of what she had. I don't care for her and the way she got where she is today. Charles also named her publicly so her father was furious with him and APB divorced Camilla. I think marriage was inevitable after that  and Charles was going to do as he pleased anyway.

[Canuck]

You have an opinion about William on that day. I have mine. I think he was bratty and did not do this for 'noble purposes.' His parents despite divorcing adored William and felt the sun rose and set on him. I see him as an ingrate. These are his parents. And his father is still supporting him and Kate.

Of course you're entitled to your opinion.  But *my* opinion is that that is awfully harsh on a kid who was 15 years old at the time, caught between two adults he loved who were behaving badly. 

[KaTerina Montague]

We'll if William was actin  bratty he learned from two parents who were great at bein bratty. I believe this event at Eton was during the war of the Wales' and I don blame him one but for not wanting the two instigators at a special school day, everyone who be focused on Charles and his wanting to love in Camilla's pants and Diana getting personal "riding lessons" from James Hewitt.

[Macrobug]

I'm sure Will felt guilty after Diana's death about not inviting her to one of his last school events she could have attended, but that doesn't mean he was wrong to leave his parents out.  I think it's pretty unfair to call that bratty when he was the kid and his parents were the ones waging public battles with one another without much regard for what it was likely to do to their kids. 

I am in no way a Diana detractor -- I think she was a very admirable person -- but I am realistic about her role in things and don't think of her as a saint.  I agree with those who think that Charles restarted things with Camilla before Diana cheated on him, and that she likely cheated only after finding out.  I also agree with those who think Diana put more dirt in the press than Charles did, though both behaved pretty badly in that regard.  And I do think Diana was incredibly nasty to Tiggy Legge-Bourke, who had done nothing to deserve it, including by publicly insinuating that she'd had an abortion and by insisting that she be left out of the boys' events because she was jealous of how close they were to Tiggy.

I think Will and Harry loved both their parents and that following Diana's death, Charles really stepped up to provide them with support and be as involved as possible in their lives.  I think both of them genuinely love him and want the best for him, and that although they may not have been fans initially, they're now fine with him and Camilla being together. 

As for Charles making Camilla happy, I think it's pretty clear he does.  People can debate whether she deserved the public anger she received or not (my feeling: she did not behave well in carrying on an affair with Charles, but the level of vitriol she received was hugely out of proportion to her "crime", especially after Diana died and the public grief about that sort of got grafted onto everyone's feeling about Camilla).  But if she didn't really love Charles I don't think she would have stuck it out through all the anger and viciousness from the press and public.  She was with him for years where it seemed impossible he would ever be able to marry her or she would ever become Queen, so I don't think she was doing it with the expectation of those things down the road.  I think she just loves him, and is happy they're now married to one another and able to just be together.
Double post auto-merged: July 07, 2014, 05:46:09 PM

As for Kate and Camilla, I have often seen photos of them animatedly talking or laughing at public events.  I think if she was just being polite so as not to upset Charles, she would be doing just that:  being polite and nothing more.  What I've seen has convinced me that Kate does actually like Camilla.  Your opinion may be different, of course.

:goodpost: Couldn't have said it better  :notworthy:  As you said.  He was 15.  We  are all kids at that age.  It is unfair to criticize someones adult character by extrapolating  from their adolescent behaviour

[Limabeany]

Kate is an outsider as much as Camilla, she needs all the friends she can get.

[sandy]

Kate has a support system--she has her family. Camilla also has her own children and sister. Her sister is Charles interior decorator.  I doubt Kate and Camilla are close.  I think the two on the surface act all palsy walsy but I think they are not close.
Double post auto-merged: July 07, 2014, 10:50:30 PM

I'm sure Will felt guilty after Diana's death about not inviting her to one of his last school events she could have attended, but that doesn't mean he was wrong to leave his parents out.  I think it's pretty unfair to call that bratty when he was the kid and his parents were the ones waging public battles with one another without much regard for what it was likely to do to their kids. 

I am in no way a Diana detractor -- I think she was a very admirable person -- but I am realistic about her role in things and don't think of her as a saint.  I agree with those who think that Charles restarted things with Camilla before Diana cheated on him, and that she likely cheated only after finding out.  I also agree with those who think Diana put more dirt in the press than Charles did, though both behaved pretty badly in that regard.  And I do think Diana was incredibly nasty to Tiggy Legge-Bourke, who had done nothing to deserve it, including by publicly insinuating that she'd had an abortion and by insisting that she be left out of the boys' events because she was jealous of how close they were to Tiggy.

I think Will and Harry loved both their parents and that following Diana's death, Charles really stepped up to provide them with support and be as involved as possible in their lives.  I think both of them genuinely love him and want the best for him, and that although they may not have been fans initially, they're now fine with him and Camilla being together. 

As for Charles making Camilla happy, I think it's pretty clear he does.  People can debate whether she deserved the public anger she received or not (my feeling: she did not behave well in carrying on an affair with Charles, but the level of vitriol she received was hugely out of proportion to her "crime", especially after Diana died and the public grief about that sort of got grafted onto everyone's feeling about Camilla).  But if she didn't really love Charles I don't think she would have stuck it out through all the anger and viciousness from the press and public.  She was with him for years where it seemed impossible he would ever be able to marry her or she would ever become Queen, so I don't think she was doing it with the expectation of those things down the road.  I think she just loves him, and is happy they're now married to one another and able to just be together.
Double post auto-merged: July 07, 2014, 05:46:09 PM

As for Kate and Camilla, I have often seen photos of them animatedly talking or laughing at public events.  I think if she was just being polite so as not to upset Charles, she would be doing just that:  being polite and nothing more.  What I've seen has convinced me that Kate does actually like Camilla.  Your opinion may be different, of course.

:goodpost: Couldn't have said it better  :notworthy:  As you said.  He was 15.  We  are all kids at that age.  It is unfair to criticize someones adult character by extrapolating  from their adolescent behaviour

Adults and children can behave badly. And WIll was at a rebellious stage. I do think there is some arrogance in William. Despite it all, he was well loved by his parents and really should not have snubbed them that way.
Double post auto-merged: July 07, 2014, 10:52:03 PM

You have an opinion about William on that day. I have mine. I think he was bratty and did not do this for 'noble purposes.' His parents despite divorcing adored William and felt the sun rose and set on him. I see him as an ingrate. These are his parents. And his father is still supporting him and Kate.

Of course you're entitled to your opinion.  But *my* opinion is that that is awfully harsh on a kid who was 15 years old at the time, caught between two adults he loved who were behaving badly. 

William knew he was loved by his parents. They had no differences with him. In his circle, many of his peers experienced divorce of their parents.

Diana was very hurt by what he did. And used the lunch she packed to take Harry on a picnic.

I don't think children should punish parents that way.

[Trudie]

For what it is worth at public events where they speak animatedly at each other and show smiles all around one has to remember that this is a very public royal family who have to lead by example it simply wouldn't do to show real feelings to the very people you represent at home and abroad. I remember during the so called war of the Wales Diana and the Queen Mother sharing a carriage at Ascot it was speculated at the time the Queen Mother was not enchanted with Diana but acted the part. When Sarah was undergoing bad press and rumour's about her marriage she and Andrew were aboard a ship ready to greet the Queen and Sarah was visibly nervous and the Queen gave her a kiss on the cheek well we all know how long it really has been since Sarah has been seen with the RF only her former husband. Whether Camilla is loved by the family no one really knows but has Camilla won hearts only to those who are IMO sycophants

[sandy]

I'm sure Will felt guilty after Diana's death about not inviting her to one of his last school events she could have attended, but that doesn't mean he was wrong to leave his parents out.  I think it's pretty unfair to call that bratty when he was the kid and his parents were the ones waging public battles with one another without much regard for what it was likely to do to their kids. 

I am in no way a Diana detractor -- I think she was a very admirable person -- but I am realistic about her role in things and don't think of her as a saint.  I agree with those who think that Charles restarted things with Camilla before Diana cheated on him, and that she likely cheated only after finding out.  I also agree with those who think Diana put more dirt in the press than Charles did, though both behaved pretty badly in that regard.  And I do think Diana was incredibly nasty to Tiggy Legge-Bourke, who had done nothing to deserve it, including by publicly insinuating that she'd had an abortion and by insisting that she be left out of the boys' events because she was jealous of how close they were to Tiggy.

I think Will and Harry loved both their parents and that following Diana's death, Charles really stepped up to provide them with support and be as involved as possible in their lives.  I think both of them genuinely love him and want the best for him, and that although they may not have been fans initially, they're now fine with him and Camilla being together. 

As for Charles making Camilla happy, I think it's pretty clear he does.  People can debate whether she deserved the public anger she received or not (my feeling: she did not behave well in carrying on an affair with Charles, but the level of vitriol she received was hugely out of proportion to her "crime", especially after Diana died and the public grief about that sort of got grafted onto everyone's feeling about Camilla).  But if she didn't really love Charles I don't think she would have stuck it out through all the anger and viciousness from the press and public.  She was with him for years where it seemed impossible he would ever be able to marry her or she would ever become Queen, so I don't think she was doing it with the expectation of those things down the road.  I think she just loves him, and is happy they're now married to one another and able to just be together.
Double post auto-merged: July 07, 2014, 05:46:09 PM

As for Kate and Camilla, I have often seen photos of them animatedly talking or laughing at public events.  I think if she was just being polite so as not to upset Charles, she would be doing just that:  being polite and nothing more.  What I've seen has convinced me that Kate does actually like Camilla.  Your opinion may be different, of course.

:goodpost: Couldn't have said it better  :notworthy:  As you said.  He was 15.  We  are all kids at that age.  It is unfair to criticize someones adult character by extrapolating  from their adolescent behaviour

We'll if William was actin  bratty he learned from two parents who were great at bein bratty. I believe this event at Eton was during the war of the Wales' and I don blame him one but for not wanting the two instigators at a special school day, everyone who be focused on Charles and his wanting to love in Camilla's pants and Diana getting personal "riding lessons" from James Hewitt.

Camilla could not stand Tiggy. She was instrumental in having her fired and called her "the help." Charles was very touchy feely with Tiggy and wanted to show Diana the boys did not need her. Tiggy opened her big mouth and slammed Diana's mothering skills to the media and called William and Harry"her boys." This was like waving a red flag in front of Diana.  She was stupid or had a nasty streak--I think it was a combination of  both. Tiggy should have had the tact to talk to WIlliam about snubbing his parents and discouraged the idea of his inviting her.

I do think Camilla did not like the young woman around Charles and Tiggy did not invite Camilla to her wedding--just Charles and his sons. Only the boys showed up since Camilla was not invited.

Tiggy was of comfort to Harry especially after his mother died.

But I think it was wrong for WIlliam to do that.

[cinrit]

Camilla could not stand Tiggy. She was instrumental in having her fired and called her "the help." Charles was very touchy feely with Tiggy and wanted to show Diana the boys did not need her. Tiggy opened her big mouth and slammed Diana's mothering skills to the media and called William and Harry"her boys." This was like waving a red flag in front of Diana.  She was stupid or had a nasty streak--I think it was a combination of  both. Tiggy should have had the tact to talk to WIlliam about snubbing his parents and discouraged the idea of his inviting her.

How do we know Tiggy didn't have a tactful talk with William about not inviting his parents?  How do we know she didn't try to discourage him from his not inviting them?  There's a lot of talk here about how stubborn William is, so who knows ... maybe she tried, and maybe William said he'd do it his way.  In any case, if Diana didn't like Tiggy calling William and Harry "her boys", or for any reason, she also should have had a tactful talk with Tiggy, asking her not to do so anymore.  Walking up to her in front of several other people and making an extremely embarrassing comment was a hit below the belt.

I do think Camilla did not like the young woman around Charles and Tiggy did not invite Camilla to her wedding--just Charles and his sons. Only the boys showed up since Camilla was not invited.

There was no reason to invite Camilla to her wedding, since they were not friends and Camilla was not married to Charles, not even engaged.  Tiggy did, however, allow her son to serve in William's wedding, and therefore be in Camilla's company that day, and probably many days before that, since surely there were rehearsals.

Cindy
Double post auto-merged: July 08, 2014, 12:09:52 PM

cinritCindy, I did not misread , misunderstand  your post. I will not list the pics BUT THERE IS  NOT ONE, ONE single  photo  in PW  AND PH AND K  are NOT all happy,smily with  PCamilla in the picture. 

Yes, exactly!  That's exactly why I posted those pictures ... they are happy, they look like they're enjoying each other's company.  It was to disprove the post that said William never hides that he dislikes Camilla.  It had absolutely nothing to do with anyone but William and Camilla.  I'm sorry if you still don't understand, but that's okay. :hug:

Cindy

[Trudie]

The logical answer Cindy dear was Tiggy allowed her son to serve in Williams wedding because William asked. Camilla had nothing to do with the wedding aside from playing step mummy grinning like a Cheshire cat sitting with the royal family. I hardly doubt Camilla spoke with the children aside from her own granddaughter. Tiggy is close to William and also Barbara Barnes and Jessie Webb also former nannies were invited. This wedding was all about William and Kate not about Camilla.

[cinrit]

I didn't say the wedding was about Camilla.  I said that the child was in Camilla's company quite frequently during that time.  And he didn't look any the worse for wear.  I don't know why you would think Camilla didn't talk to any of the children but her own grandchild.  She's not an ogre.  Children don't run from her on first sight! :lol:

Cindy

[TLLK]

I'm sure Will felt guilty after Diana's death about not inviting her to one of his last school events she could have attended, but that doesn't mean he was wrong to leave his parents out.  I think it's pretty unfair to call that bratty when he was the kid and his parents were the ones waging public battles with one another without much regard for what it was likely to do to their kids. 

I am in no way a Diana detractor -- I think she was a very admirable person -- but I am realistic about her role in things and don't think of her as a saint.  I agree with those who think that Charles restarted things with Camilla before Diana cheated on him, and that she likely cheated only after finding out.  I also agree with those who think Diana put more dirt in the press than Charles did, though both behaved pretty badly in that regard.  And I do think Diana was incredibly nasty to Tiggy Legge-Bourke, who had done nothing to deserve it, including by publicly insinuating that she'd had an abortion and by insisting that she be left out of the boys' events because she was jealous of how close they were to Tiggy.

I think Will and Harry loved both their parents and that following Diana's death, Charles really stepped up to provide them with support and be as involved as possible in their lives.  I think both of them genuinely love him and want the best for him, and that although they may not have been fans initially, they're now fine with him and Camilla being together. 

As for Charles making Camilla happy, I think it's pretty clear he does.  People can debate whether she deserved the public anger she received or not (my feeling: she did not behave well in carrying on an affair with Charles, but the level of vitriol she received was hugely out of proportion to her "crime", especially after Diana died and the public grief about that sort of got grafted onto everyone's feeling about Camilla).  But if she didn't really love Charles I don't think she would have stuck it out through all the anger and viciousness from the press and public.  She was with him for years where it seemed impossible he would ever be able to marry her or she would ever become Queen, so I don't think she was doing it with the expectation of those things down the road.  I think she just loves him, and is happy they're now married to one another and able to just be together.
Double post auto-merged: July 07, 2014, 05:46:09 PM

As for Kate and Camilla, I have often seen photos of them animatedly talking or laughing at public events.  I think if she was just being polite so as not to upset Charles, she would be doing just that:  being polite and nothing more.  What I've seen has convinced me that Kate does actually like Camilla.  Your opinion may be different, of course.

:goodpost: Couldn't have said it better  :notworthy:  As you said.  He was 15.  We  are all kids at that age.  It is unfair to criticize someones adult character by extrapolating  from their adolescent behaviour

I agree. Excellent summary Cannuck.

[sandy]

Camilla could not stand Tiggy. She was instrumental in having her fired and called her "the help." Charles was very touchy feely with Tiggy and wanted to show Diana the boys did not need her. Tiggy opened her big mouth and slammed Diana's mothering skills to the media and called William and Harry"her boys." This was like waving a red flag in front of Diana.  She was stupid or had a nasty streak--I think it was a combination of  both. Tiggy should have had the tact to talk to WIlliam about snubbing his parents and discouraged the idea of his inviting her.

How do we know Tiggy didn't have a tactful talk with William about not inviting his parents?  How do we know she didn't try to discourage him from his not inviting them?  There's a lot of talk here about how stubborn William is, so who knows ... maybe she tried, and maybe William said he'd do it his way.  In any case, if Diana didn't like Tiggy calling William and Harry "her boys", or for any reason, she also should have had a tactful talk with Tiggy, asking her not to do so anymore.  Walking up to her in front of several other people and making an extremely embarrassing comment was a hit below the belt.

I do think Camilla did not like the young woman around Charles and Tiggy did not invite Camilla to her wedding--just Charles and his sons. Only the boys showed up since Camilla was not invited.

There was no reason to invite Camilla to her wedding, since they were not friends and Camilla was not married to Charles, not even engaged.  Tiggy did, however, allow her son to serve in William's wedding, and therefore be in Camilla's company that day, and probably many days before that, since surely there were rehearsals.

Cindy
Double post auto-merged: July 08, 2014, 12:09:52 PM

cinritCindy, I did not misread , misunderstand  your post. I will not list the pics BUT THERE IS  NOT ONE, ONE single  photo  in PW  AND PH AND K  are NOT all happy,smily with  PCamilla in the picture. 

Yes, exactly!  That's exactly why I posted those pictures ... they are happy, they look like they're enjoying each other's company.  It was to disprove the post that said William never hides that he dislikes Camilla.  It had absolutely nothing to do with anyone but William and Camilla.  I'm sorry if you still don't understand, but that's okay. :hug:

Cindy

Tiggy could have turned down the invitation. This is the same woman who criticized Diana's parenting to the media. I think she got a sort of thrill about replacing Diana.  I think what Tiggy did was below the belt. Tiggy had no business criticizing Diana's parenting publicly.

Why would Tiggy's son hang out with Camilla. Rehearsals are just that going through a practice run of the wedding. Actually Pippa was the one who had to take the children down the aisle.  It was a private wedding but Tiggy did not invite Camilla. Camilla called her the "help" and did not like her. It is on record that Camilla was not invited.

Cindy, why would Harry and William be rude to Camilla in public? The royals are about appearances and happy families. Taking out photos does not really show how they think or feel about her. It's all speculation. Fergie sat at the breakfast table at Balmoral as if nothing happened when her topless photos were in the papers, according to eyewitness accounts.

I think William prefers being with Kate's family than he does being with Camilla.

[cinrit]

Why would Tiggy's son hang out with Camilla. Rehearsals are just that going through a practice run of the wedding. Actually Pippa was the one who had to take the children down the aisle.  It was a private wedding but Tiggy did not invite Camilla. Camilla called her the "help" and did not like her. It is on record that Camilla was not invited.

I love how my posts get blown out of proportion. :thumbsup:  I never said that Tiggy's son would "hang out" with Camilla.  I said he would be in her company during the wedding and rehearsals.  Hopefully, he was a polite young man and interfaced with everyone in the wedding party.  Surely, he didn't sit in a corner by himself the whole time, in fear that he'd run into Camilla.

Cindy, why would Harry and William be rude to Camilla in public?

I never said that, either. :D   In fact, I said quite the opposite.  I posted pictures to prove just the opposite.  End of story for me.  I guess those who don't want to get it, won't get it no matter if I type until my fingers are blue. :lol:

Cindy

[Canuck]

I think William prefers being with Kate's family than he does being with Camilla.

Something we agree on!  Will clearly loves being around Kate's family -- I think that's because, although he loves both his parents, his childhood was not a very stable one.  I'm sure it is refreshing to him to be around a tight-knit family where the parents have (as far as we know) a happy marriage.

[sandy]

Cindy, Being in someone's company does not mean they get close. I doubt Tiggy's son has been in contact with Camilla since then. Camilla and Tiggy did not like each other according to various sources and Tiggy did not invite Camilla to her wedding even as a plus one for Charles.  Nobody ever said he was scared of Camilla just that the two are not close. Why would they have any reason to be. He's a child and already has doting parents and other relatives of his own.

Pictures do not project into people's heads and tell us how they feel or think.  As Trudie said the Queen Mother and Diana looked friendly to each other but that was not really the case. It is possible to keep up appearances.

[cinrit]

Cindy, Being in someone's company does not mean they get close. I doubt Tiggy's son has been in contact with Camilla since then.

Oh, good heavens!  I did not say that they got close.  Let's let it go, okay?  Sometimes, I can't help but wonder if this is done on purpose. :happy15:

Cindy