Royal Insight Forum

What would you say that the newspapers did for Princess Diana?

Thats a very large question with many answers :D

Would you say that the unrelenting pressure of having to appear in public and be gracious to a press corps wore Princess Diana down?

I would say yes and no, it was very daunting, but it also offered her the method of her freedom, as well as support, and self image, as she wasnt getting that from the Windsors. Especially in the final years of her life, the pace of the photogs was relentless. I spent the 31st rewatching the newsfeeds and the funeral and we forget now 19 years later how intrusive it was for her.

It was a tough way for her to win her freedom, but marrying into what she did there was not much of a precedence for leaving, so if we could ask her she might have been thankful the press was there, but its kinda like that guy who was trapped between rocks and had to cut his arm off, freedom, but at a high price.

Would you say that Princess Diana resented the press speculation about her marriage?

I would say for the most part, at the start, it put her chance of marrying him at risk, like her sister and others, and when you think about it, the press know what it will cost the women if they talk to them, but they prey on the natural human inclination to talk and interact as if almost to invite them to take themselves out of the running. It was part of the game and Diana knew it well, but it was still daunting as she said in 95.

Once married,it added pressure in terms of the windsors felt her press exposure was a problem and had to be neutralized with hateful, false, briefings about her, that caused her to up the ante. Also the exposure weakened Charles glass ego and drove him into Camillas arms to be validated when all she was trying to do was keep pace and adapt to her role, see what she said to Premier Peckford of Nfld in 83.

She was a unique Royal in that the media circus around her wasnt going to end or die down to the level the other royals had to put up with.

It was only once the marriage was basically over that it helped her in terms of being able to expose C&C and fight for a measure of freedom from the RF.

So id say it depended on when in her timeline you chose to look at.

Charles never had to be "driven" back to Camilla. He  never really dropped her. I think she also stoked his ego to help her own agenda. WOrst person to give marriage counseling. Charles jealousy issues caused the problems

Thats pretty much what I was saying :D To be fair, he probably was more emotionally connected to Camilla until at least William was born, seems the high flyers will tend to be physically faithful until they get their male heir to keep the line going, and then all bets are off. When you look at them in the media, theres a big dropoff after Williams first year in terms of him appearing affectionate.

Camilla totally fanned Charles ego to aid herself, she loved the benefits of being APB wife and having children and the status and benefits of bedding Charles. If Charles was more of a man, he would have been secure in Dianas popularity, as it reflected on his good choice of a spouse and her qualities reflecting well on him, the whole behind every good man is a woman thing.

Camilla giving him marriage advice is like the chicken asking the wolf how they should stay safe.  :lol:

When Princess Diana separated from Prince Charles, the headline of The Sun was Charles Forced Diana To Go: Sad Princess Quits Public Life.

Diana never really left public life from the time she got engaged to Charles to her untimely passing.

Well I think for positioning purposes, it was set up that Charles initiated the proceedings. He was the one who wanted someone else, so he should be the one to set the proceedings in motion, also Diana, given her family history did not want to be seen as the one starting proceedings, lest she be labelled as a bolter.

Gym owner Bruce Taylor photographed Princess Diana wearing a leotard and cycling shorts. The pictures were first published in The Sunday Mirror.     
Was The Sunday Mirror desparate for ratings that poor Diana had to be put on the spot?   
   
:nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :lift: :lift: :faint: :faint: :faint: :faint: :faint:

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on January 29, 2017, 08:42:50 PM
Gym owner Bruce Taylor photographed Princess Diana wearing a leotard and cycling shorts. The pictures were first published in The Sunday Mirror.     
Was The Sunday Mirror desparate for ratings that poor Diana had to be put on the spot?   
   
:nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :lift: :lift: :faint: :faint: :faint: :faint: :faint:

She could have gone to the private gyms in Buck Palace, but it was disgraceful behaviour by the gym owner.  Sadly however Diana seemed to be very unlucky in the people that she engaged with.  Even when the man who recorded her talking to GIlby, thougth of warning her that her phone conversations were accessible by any radio ham with a scanner, but didn't, Instead he sold her out for a few hundred pounds..

re: the gym, as i recall she was offered a free membership there, and as the gym owner got into financial problems later on, he resorted to this underhanded tactic.

Thats one of the weaknesses of being royal/famous/etc. they are very eager for free stuff but one has to sometimes question what does the other party want out of it. In later life she taught that to William to be cautious about that, probably some from this experience, but she long had a disdain for ppl making money off knowing/being in contact with her.

Idk what the equipment is/was like at the gyms at BP back in that time, also she by that time wanted to be as far away from there as she could.

She did have some bad luck/one must also ponder sometimes rash/instinctual dealings with people, also she had the added handicap of being the most famous woman in the world and almost everyone wanting to make some money off her.

As for the ham radio guy, it wouldnt have mattered, it was being broadcasted by Intel agencies, I remember seeing some papaers on the type of signal used, etc. that confirmed it, same with camillagate.

If he hadnt done it, someone else would have. His warning wouldnt have done much as the press were, imo for their goals, unbelievable stupid by going straight away to Gilbey for a quote about it rather than trying to do some sleuth work to get a better story. Gilbey in effect delivered that mans warning for him, as he told Diana and she broke contact with him.

QuoteIdk what the equipment is/was like at the gyms at BP back in that time, also she by that time wanted to be as far away from there as she could.

I am guessing that the BP gym like the pool was available for the staff as well as the members of the BRF. However if a member of the BRF arrived to use it, the staff had to exit. Knowing this rule I'd expect that Diana didn't use the gym because it meant that her presence would interrupt their opportunity to use the facility and she'd have to work out alone. Some people go to the gym/cross fit/ and join recreational teams...partly for the social aspect too. Diana was a social person and from what I can tell enjoyed her tennis, ballet and swim team for interaction as well as the exercise. Her sons seem to have a similar feeling toward team activities.

I don't know about that, It says in Tina B's book that the gym at BP wasn't much used, and there's no indication that the staff had to leave if a royal came in. and that the gym Diana DID use was very visible to the public, with a big glass frontage.  So it does not seem a great place from a secrurtiy POV or a privacy POV.

QuoteHousehold staff can join seven sports and social clubs and use the Queen's swimming pool at Buckingham Palace. The rule states that if a staff member is swimming and a royal appears they have to get out of the pool unless invited to stay.

If a staff member arrives to swim and a royal is already swimming, they must not attempt to join them.

Read more: Not in front of the corgis! A new book reveals the intriguing secrets of royal life | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2053510/Not-corgis-A-new-book-reveals-intriguing-secrets-royal-life.html#ixzz4mY1cY7rO)
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This states that they do have to leave the pool unless invited to remain and I'm going to assume that the gym would have a similar rule in place.

Not In Front of the Corgis: Secrets of Life Behind the Royal Curtains: Brian Hoey: 9781849544115: Amazon.com: Books (https://www.amazon.com/Not-Front-Corgis-Secrets-Curtains/dp/1849544115/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=YTKKHJDYGH3A3JAW3TG6)

Possibly, but I'm sure that if the royal (I don't believe that most of the RF are gym bunnies except for Diana at that time) said "stay where you are".. it would be Ok. I mean the queen isn't going to go there, nor IMO were say Anne or Charles likely to do so.
but she coculd have picked a more private gym and not one with a plate glass window in front.  However it goes without saying that her gym owner behaved disgracefully.  But then that was what seemed to happen with Di..
People rushed off to sell stoires or pics.  I don't know if it was the "greed is good" culture of the 80s...

^^^Absolutely agree that she should have considered that she could possibly be photographed in front of the window. Also agree that it was awful that anyone's (public figure or private citizen) workout photos would be taken and published without their knowledge.

In a way it's the same as William and Kate going out on the balcony that time and the nude photos taken. It's the same idea that they "should have known" there might be paparazzi with telephoto lens. I think Diana probably felt it would be OK, sometimes royals and others in the public eye miscalculate. Maybe she liked that gym and she liked getting out of her home  from time to time. Nevertheless, William and Kate and earlier on, Diana took legal action.

Very true @sandy. Quite likely we'll be reading about the next generation of young royals having to deal with paparazzi intrusion in the next decade or so.

What have the newspapers done for Princess Diana?

What did the media  do  for PD?
How about phrasing it that way.
PD  had  charm,  beauty, youth, world stage. All the  needs  that  feed the media.
She was  not  a entertainer . She  was  not a private  person .
Being BRF, she  had  means  for privacy  such as her home, KP,  ....
The  media outside of the palace  may have  made  it  hard. Add  PD did seek the  media  too. Vogue Magazine, Vanity Fair,   ...It was a  give and take. Once  you turn it  own,  you  cannot turn it off. You  cannot  turn  n the media  when  you  like a light switch  if  you turn them  on to you.

NOW, I  will say, I think  she  had  regrets. Who does  not. I think she , had  she lived, would  have  , per her own words, retreated from her  public life to a smaller  public  role and  thus, smaller  public life. Not being PofW  and not having  BRF duties such as  a  tour  in the Commonwealth, etc.,   , that alone  would  have  given her a  smaller place  on the world  stage.   I think , in time,  as  long as she  did not  seek  a  large  public  life,  she  would  have  had a  smaller public life and time moves on. People  change and grow.  Her and her sons.  Their time   is now  for that  public life. They do with  their  public BRF duties, but really  , PW, PH,  have  much  privacy  living  in  the  public world. They  do live  caged  up  behind the palace walls.  I  think you can say,  they can say, thanks  to their mother for showing how  to  live   in both worlds. They  have dated who they wanted, traveled  for  fun,  gone to  public places for  a  social life  in their  college years and  20's.  K, the media  wanted her  to  be  in that fishbowl and give  her private life to them, but  she  does not have that spark  like PD, work ethnic like her, never , thank goodness, had   a soap opera private life  PD's and  so  K has  a  public  life that  is  small and  very big  private  life.


Her public life with the  media could have  and would  waned. 2-3  years  after  her  divorce..it  could  have  with  her  just  staying more private.  Not  being  so  visible, out there.  It  did for PMaragaret.  It did  for  JBKennedyOnassis.

Before this one veers off into unproductive territory, let me clear it up. glass windows and W&K's experience, such have nothing to do with these pics, they were taken via hidden camera put into the ceiling of the gym right over the leg press, not from outside.

It wasnt a security camera like we see everywhere today, back then they wernt as common, this was like the one you see in a movie where the crooked hotel owner tries to blackmail someone, etc.

While Diana had less expectation of privacy than the general public, even she had the legal expectation that secret cameras arent ambushing her. It would have been impossible for her to do many stretches and exercises for her lower body and even some upper body ones if she had to fear for a possible hidden camera everywhere.

The article about BP mentions the pool, which she used frequently, even  in rocky times between her and the palace. I dont know what weight lifting equip was there then, and as rightly pointed out she was the most enthusiastic gym goer of the royals, so there might not have been any at BP, and she did like being around ppl, and I think the act of going to a public gym helped her satisfy her desire to do "normal stuff like normal ppl do".

She used the harbour club for years with no problem, to be sure better vetting and/or staying on top of the fortunes of people in her orbit may have helped, but that in itself could be a full time job to deal with every eventuality.

TBH im surprised it didnt happen sooner and more often, she was lucky it was just those pics. Im amazed they didnt try to get a female to try and snap changing room pics and such. If we were to rewind and she was going through life today with smartphones everywhere it would be a nightmare.

QuoteTBH im surprised it didnt happen sooner and more often, she was lucky it was just those pics. Im amazed they didnt try to get a female to try and snap changing room pics and such. If we were to rewind and she was going through life today with smartphones everywhere it would be a nightmare.

Just recently there was a case of an elderly woman who was photographed while showering at her gym by a younger female member. The photo was put on social media with a mean caption. The woman who posted the photo was taken to court.

Playboy model Dani Mathers pleads no contest in gym 'body-shaming' photo case - LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-playboy-model-dani-mathers-plea-snapchat-20170524-htmlstory.html)

Quote from: TLLK on July 11, 2017, 07:43:17 PM
^^^Absolutely agree that she should have considered that she could possibly be photographed in front of the window. Also agree that it was awful that anyone's (public figure or private citizen) workout photos would be taken and published without their knowledge.

I was thinking more that if she had gone to court on the issue of the photo in the gym, the other side would have made much of the fact that she had chosen a gym where she could easily be photographed (or even injured) through a plate glass big window..and that this would be seen as indication that she wasn't that concerned about privacy.  The gym owner's lawyers would have put it that if she chose a public gym, and esp one that was so open to be seen by the ordiarny passer by, she was in effect "out in public" and could not object to photos being taken.

You guys, this is like the "wine" (orange vodka)taken from highgrove to devon, etc. you're all off your rockers. The pictures in question were taken by a secret camera over the leg press, thats why there was such an issue out of them, aside from the images themselves.

p.s im picking on all of you that are still going with the window idea, ive mentioned it at least once before, if you guys want to keep deluding yourselves that they were snapped from a window from outside, go to it, beam me up, scotty .......... :ugh:

what are you talking about?  I never said tht they were snapped from a window.  Please read my posts

The point in all this is Diana should have been allowed a level of privacy. They gym owner breached her right to privacy all in the fact that he wanted publicity for himself and business but the papers were wrong to publish them as she was off duty and entitled to some private time.

Of course he was in the wrong, disgracefully so.  but if she had goene to court, his lawyer would probably have argued that she was "out in public".. that she knew people were around her and could take photos etc...so that her privacy hadn't been breaeched to that extent.  Even if he had lost the case, his legal people would have made various points..

This sort of thing has been controversial for years. Jackie O. was out in public and sued Ron Galella for taking pictures of her. The same argument could be made that she was in a "public place." Jackie arguably more of a target than Diana should have expected to be able to go out in public and walk without someone arguing that she was "out in public." Jackie also had a job later on and was certainly entitled to her privacy as far as going to work. Frank Sinatra's solution was to have his "people" break the cameras and destroy the photos they took of him.

“Smash His Camera”: The man who stalked Jackie O. - Salon.com (http://www.salon.com/2010/07/31/ron_galella/)

Diana did sue over these photographs taken by the gym owner Bruce Taylor and the case was settled out of court a week before it was to proceed in the courts. The gym owner had to apology and hand over the approximately 300,000.00 pounds he made from there sale which was donated to charity. This was reported in November 1993 by the BBC I just googled it as I was sure that she had sued over this.

Which newspaper published the most news about Diana?

I would say all published much news about Diana. James Whitaker was one of the leading writers of Diana stories

Yes, all the tabloids published articles and photos of Diana, especially the tabloids. I would say the Sun loomed large in those days. The Sun was under Rupert Murdoch's control and journalists there certainly enjoyed themselves during the War of the Wales saga.

Richard Kay was a frequent contributor on her behalf back in the day.

Quote from: sandy on November 25, 2017, 12:38:38 PM
I would say all published much news about Diana. James Whitaker was one of the leading writers of Diana stories

Which newspaper did James Whitaker work for?

QuoteJames Whitaker (1 October 1940 ? 15 February 2012[1]) was an English journalist, specialising in the British royal family.[2]

Born in Cheltenham,[3] he was educated at Cheltenham College. Initially working as an articled clerk in an accountancy firm, in 1963, he became a reporter at the Hounslow, Brentford and Chiswick Post. In 1966, Whitaker scored his first scoop when he went undercover working as a cloakroom attendant in the newly opened Playboy Club in London.[4] In 1967, he moved to the Daily Mail, and in 1971, joined the William Hickey column team at the Daily Express.[5]

In 1975, he joined The Sun, where he struck up a lifelong friendship with Royal photographer Arthur Edwards. As a result, in 1979, he joined the team on the launch of the Daily Star as its Royal reporter. He then moved to the Daily Mirror.

In November 1982, the Daily Mirror assistant editor, Anne Robinson, attended a formal dinner attended by Queen Elizabeth II, at which she noted that Diana, Princess of Wales arrived late. Robinson asked Whitaker to investigate and, after conversations with various sources, including Diana's sister Lady Sarah McCorquodale, confirmed that Diana was suffering from an eating disorder, then identified as anorexia, in a scoop article on 19 November. As a result, the Buckingham Palace Press Secretary, Michael Shea, rang then Mirror's editor Mike Molloy to demand the removal of those involved in the story. Robinson left the paper to start her television career, and it was later confirmed that Diana suffered from bulimia.[6]

Whitaker wrote the book Diana v. Charles which chronicled the deterioration of the relationship between Diana and Prince Charles.

Whitaker was Royal Correspondent for the ITV television programme This Morning. In 2004, he took part in the reality television programme Celebrity Fit Club and was made team captain for the final three weeks and "Mr Fit Club 2004". He was one of three judges on Australia's Australian Princess television programme.

Whitaker was diagnosed with cancer in early 2011. He had operations and chemotherapy.[3][7] Whitaker died the morning of 15 February 2012.[2][8]

@LouisFerdinand From Wikipediahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Whitaker_(journalist)
James Whitaker - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Whitaker_)(journalist)

I thought that the drama was that Diana had arrived at the Festival of Remembrance after the queen, which was unheard of.. and considered very discourteous tot the queen and that she had obviously been losing weight.. so Anne Robinson had asked Whittaker to investigate.

I recall she and Charles had a row and she wanted to stay home then changed her mind...

Quote from: amabel on November 26, 2017, 10:05:02 AM
I thought that the drama was that Diana had arrived at the Festival of Remembrance after the queen, which was unheard of.. and considered very discourteous tot the queen and that she had obviously been losing weight.. so Anne Robinson had asked Whittaker to investigate.

Yes I believe that was the event and not a formal dinner.

Interesting that Sarah was a source for the article....if one knew all the info, their relationship would be an interesting movie. They would have been at home in a Bronte sisters novel.

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