Author Topic: Yet another poll about succession 8/12/17  (Read 561 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TLLK

  • Forum Royalty
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,307
  • Activity:
    92%
  • Gal power!!!!!!
Yet another poll about succession 8/12/17
« on: August 12, 2017, 09:11:52 PM »
Most Brits want Prince William to be the next King... and over a third say Camilla Parker-Bowles should not become Queen if Prince Charles takes the

From the Sun... :shrug: Poll was conducted by ICM-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICM_Research

I had a giggle at the "cartoons" for Charles, William, Harry and Camilla especially the generous hairlines for the men.  :hehe:
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 09:15:13 PM by TLLK »
 


Offline FanDianaFancy

  • Aristocrat
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,925
  • Activity:
    18%
Re: Yet another poll about succession 8/12/17
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2017, 10:29:33 PM »
King Charles and Queen Camel. It is not open for vote. Various polls can show various results.. The Aristide,nobility,landed gentry, world leaders, zero nobility are the only people who matter to Cameala
 Add  9 to 10 more years for QEII. Then KingC and QCammulla for at least 10 years taking them to 87/88 and 90. Add a few more years before Charles dies. I believe he'll die first.
K and W will be around 55.
Year 2037.

My predictions anyway. These people do not die. They all live well into their 90s first.

 

Online Curryong

  • Forum Nobility
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,051
  • Activity:
    58%
    • Favorite royal: The Queen and Prince Harry
Re: Yet another poll about succession 8/12/17
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2017, 05:47:15 PM »
This is yet again bad news for Charles in this Prospect poll.

Young people shun Prince Charles as king - with most wanting William to take over according to new poll - M...

And, before anybody does the old 'succession to the British throne is not a popularity contest' thing again, I think everyone on this forum knows that.

Also, personally, although I don't like Charles I'm distinctly underwhelmed by the Cambridges, so I haven't really got a dog in this race.

However, I am a long time admirer of the Queen and as a history buff of the history of the BRF. So it gives me no pleasure to observe that Charles's polling figures among the young are awful. As the editor of Prospect writes, they virtually collapse among those under 25. Not only that, they also promote anti-monarchical and even republican feelings.

You can say all you want that popularity doesn't matter to a monarch. I not only vehemently disagree but would say that someone on the throne who actually promotes republican feelings in a sector of the British public is a decided negative.

I was always against the Queen abdicating. However, had she done so twenty years ago and given her son a chance to reign before retirement age that may well have been the right decision, even if none of us knew it at the time.
 


Offline royalanthropologist

  • Aristocrat
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,191
  • Activity:
    20%
  • Fair and Balanced...to an extent
    • Favorite royal: Camilla Shand, Duchess of Cornwall
Re: Yet another poll about succession 8/12/17
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2017, 07:10:06 PM »
I do think the succession polls have an agenda. It is a bit like asking: do you support the kids getting the family silver now or later? Someone that asks that question is looking for something.

Now...why would a young person choose an elderly person over another young person? Why would a millennial prefer a monarchy to a republic after they have been taught all their lives that unearned privilege is immoral?  Who introduced the idea that polls must be taken on which member of a particular family is more popular than the other? The answers to those questions are telling.

The agenda is being pushed that Charles is so bad for the monarchy that we had better leapfrog him. I actually believe that Charles is not bad for the monarchy. He does his job very well and has actually elevated it. His crime is not buying into the fantasies of what a prince should be like. He has also committed the cardinal sin of having opinions and sharing them.

Any attempts to unseat or pressurize Charles are in my view always ultimately Republican in nature. What those people are saying is that we want to choose our head of state.  I consider that to be a fatal, fatal mistake for the monarchy and the royal family. If William has a shred of insight, he would put paid to that nonsense pronto. The moment that monarchy is decided by the love or dislike of a particular section is the moment republicanism wins.

I know that many republicans in the media are masquerading as concerned royalists in an attempt to create a crisis of succession. Charles is in their sights at the moment because they think he is easy long hanging fruit. I bet my last dollar that if William were to take the throne by pushing his father out of the way; they would turn on him with a venom that has never been seen before.

The family dynamics are very important. Imagine this: Charles is forced to abdicate in favor of William and moves abroad. His supporters (and there are many) are left with a very bitter test. William is seen as the ultimate Macbeth figure who has been plotting against his own father.

We would be inundated with psychoanalysis of the ultimate family betrayal. Of course there would be opinion polls to support the notion that the entire thing should be abolished. I am also quite certain the rest of the royal family would also be outraged. The dreams of a happy young monarchy would be shattered in the ensuing recriminations.

I do admire Charles for one thing though (despite his many weaknesses)...he has refused to play the popularity contest game. He will not give up his right to ascension and will certainly not be running after the polls. I admire that in him, particularly when many told us he was a very weak person. That weak person has completely refused to follow the dictates of the populist movement.

There will be polls and polls. One can say that these polls actually show that the future of the monarchy is well secured with young people taking an interest in the heir of the heir. One can also say that Charles should be removed for failing to get the youth vote. Just goes to show, you can interpret data as you like as long as it is there.
"In the past, people were born royal. Nowadays, royalty comes from what you do"...Gianni Versace
 

Offline TLLK

  • Forum Royalty
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,307
  • Activity:
    92%
  • Gal power!!!!!!
Re: Yet another poll about succession 8/12/17
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2017, 08:46:03 PM »
Personally I feel very badly for father and son every time one of these polls is taken and published. It's been going on for about 15 years or so. Even if both say to each other to ignore them or that they're not bothered by the outcome, it has to impact their relationship in a negative manner.
 
The following users thanked this post: royalanthropologist

Offline royalanthropologist

  • Aristocrat
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,191
  • Activity:
    20%
  • Fair and Balanced...to an extent
    • Favorite royal: Camilla Shand, Duchess of Cornwall
Re: Yet another poll about succession 8/12/17
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2017, 08:53:48 PM »
I totally agree with TLLK. If a person insults and belittles Charles, they may find a very frosty reception from his sons. Liking William as a person or as a prince is not an insult to Charles. Indeed it is a credit to both parents that they brought up such a child despite their marital difficulties.

Saying that William should leapfrog Charles is in no way advantageous to William and I am certain that he is repulsed by the suggestion. Nobody likes to make their parent uncomfortable.
"In the past, people were born royal. Nowadays, royalty comes from what you do"...Gianni Versace
 

Offline LouisFerdinand

  • Aristocrat
  • ****
  • Posts: 4,775
  • Activity:
    52%
    • Favorite royal: King William IV of Great Britain
Re: Yet another poll about succession 8/12/17
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2017, 06:27:56 AM »
Let Charles be the Monarch. If William were to become William V, would there not be comparisons of what his father might have done if he, Charles, had become the Sovereign?

 


Offline sandy

  • RIF Veteran
  • Forum Royalty
  • ****
  • Posts: 24,953
  • Activity:
    30%
Re: Yet another poll about succession 8/12/17
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2017, 11:26:06 PM »
This is yet again bad news for Charles in this Prospect poll.

Young people shun Prince Charles as king - with most wanting William to take over according to new poll - M...

And, before anybody does the old 'succession to the British throne is not a popularity contest' thing again, I think everyone on this forum knows that.

Also, personally, although I don't like Charles I'm distinctly underwhelmed by the Cambridges, so I haven't really got a dog in this race.

However, I am a long time admirer of the Queen and as a history buff of the history of the BRF. So it gives me no pleasure to observe that Charles's polling figures among the young are awful. As the editor of Prospect writes, they virtually collapse among those under 25. Not only that, they also promote anti-monarchical and even republican feelings.

You can say all you want that popularity doesn't matter to a monarch. I not only vehemently disagree but would say that someone on the throne who actually promotes republican feelings in a sector of the British public is a decided negative.

I was always against the Queen abdicating. However, had she done so twenty years ago and given her son a chance to reign before retirement age that may well have been the right decision, even if none of us knew it at the time.


Twenty years ago was when Diana died and all the fallout. It would not IMO have been an opportune time. Charles was working on Camilla's PR then so if he wanted to marry her it might have been more difficult if he had been King when he tried to do so.  The Queen Mother was still alive and she also might have strongly prohibited any thought of her daughter abdicating.  Also if she had abdicated then a precedent  was set, Charles would be under a lot of pressure to retire for the 30 something William.
 
 

Offline TLLK

  • Forum Royalty
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,307
  • Activity:
    92%
  • Gal power!!!!!!
Re: Yet another poll about succession 8/12/17
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2017, 01:13:39 AM »
Let Charles be the Monarch. If William were to become William V, would there not be comparisons of what his father might have done if he, Charles, had become the Sovereign?
Comparisons between William and any former monarch are inevitable but I agree that there would be quite a bit of speculation about father and son if Charles is skipped over in favor of William.

As I stated earlier I believe that this has to put a strain on the relationship between Charles and William with Harry being impacted as well.
 

Offline Duch_Luver_4ever

  • Aristocrat
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,341
  • Activity:
    22%
    • Favorite royal: Diana, Princess of Wales
Re: Yet another poll about succession 8/12/17
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2017, 07:43:19 AM »
Let Charles be the Monarch. If William were to become William V, would there not be comparisons of what his father might have done if he, Charles, had become the Sovereign?

Well its interesting as if Charles was skipped over, then William would face wilting comparisons to his mother, esp by the oldest Britons, early in his reign. But if Charles was allowed to have say 10 years or so of mixed at best support, the bar would be set low for William when its his turn.

But with some of the other posts, I do think HM did not properly plan for her long lifespan, and she should have had a sliding scale of more responsibilities given to Charles, to both give him experience, sublimate some of his frustration he had in his late 30s and 40s over the throne, and to lighten her load, so that by now, she could just trot out for trooping the color and parliament, and such, and Charles could do the heavy lifting of monarchy, and William could be put to work on the Duchy and Princes trust so he gets ready for being PoW.

I think like monarchs now plan to not have a C&D marriage situation, they should also plan not to have a HM&C situation with 7 plus decades to wait for the throne having to come up with a role. Think of a family business you wouldnt have the son work in the mail room and then on retirement day, promote him to CEO.

Some of these traditions came from the time when rulers had to worry about their offspring killing them for the crown, which is likely rare today (that reminds me of the simpsons when they called the police and the IVR said "youve selected regicide, if you know the name of the king or queen murdered  please say it now") and so they need to come into the modern world a bit more in how succession is handled.
"No other member of the Royal Family mattered that year, or I think for the next 17 years, it was just her." Arthur Edwards, The Sun Photographer, talking about Diana's impact.
 
The following users thanked this post: TLLK

Online Curryong

  • Forum Nobility
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,051
  • Activity:
    58%
    • Favorite royal: The Queen and Prince Harry
Re: Yet another poll about succession 8/12/17
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2017, 10:02:33 AM »
The Nepalese royal family had a bit of a problem in 2001, one that led to a republic.

Nepal's crown prince murders royal family | World news | The Guardian

I think there really has been a bit of a bottleneck because until their nineties the Queen and Prince Philip kept in good health and kept up a cracking pace in terms of numbers of engagements. If either had been filing in health in their 70s and 80s I think advisers would have been questioning whether enough was enough.

However both have led a healthy outdoor lifestyle, plenty of hobbies, good food, the best of medical care etc and psychologically they weren't ready to retire. I think PP especially equated retirement with stagnation. The Queen has inherited her mother's constitution, who was fishing for salmon up to her thighs in Scottish streams at 85, and  on with the pearls and inspecting one of her regiments at almost 100.

It's a bit difficult to advise an energiser bunny to retire especially when, as Queen, you have a Coronation oath and a famous speech to the Commonwealth at 21 dedicating your life to your people and Empire in your background.

It's all caught up with everyone now, of course, and at 96 Philip especially is living on borrowed time. Charles has seen the red boxes and has performed inaugurations for years. He has also represented his mother all over the Commonwealth on countless important occasions.

I really am in two minds about abdication, btw. I am proud that the Queen has had such a long time on the throne. However, it means that an elderly King will inherit the throne next, followed by possibly a man in his late 50s, a rather uninspiring prospect for a lot of people.

Moreover, I do think about Juan Carlos's remark when he handed the throne over to Felipe that he didn't want his son 'withering on the vine' like the Prince of Wales. I can see the advantages in having a youngish and attractive couple as monarch and consort, especially ones with a young family.
So I can see both sides in this.

 I post on other Royal forums as most of you know, and was surprised/shocked even when a rather traditional older crowd of posters on a particular other  forum started seriously debating the pros and cons of skipping Charles in the wake of those polls which dismayed some of them. This is a group who are knowledgable about protocol and the Constitution, and realise that such a move is extremely unlikely, but were looking at the thing with fresh eyes and from the British population's POV. As I've said, it surprised me a great deal.
 

Offline TLLK

  • Forum Royalty
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,307
  • Activity:
    92%
  • Gal power!!!!!!
Re: Yet another poll about succession 8/12/17
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2017, 10:37:31 PM »
Great posts @Curryong  and @Duch_Luver_4ever with many of QEII's peers having chosen abdication for a variety of reasons, I would hope that the people of the UK would be open to the idea of her turning most of her duties over to her heir or simply abdicating.  IMHO she has fulfilled her vow that was made in the late 1940's when the average lifespan did not see people living into their nineties. I would hate to see the type of turmoil that is currently facing Emperor Akihito who really would like to step down.

If I was a citizen of the UK, I'd be open to the possibility that a monarch could choose to abdicate due to age and/or health related issues.
 
The following users thanked this post: Curryong

Offline sandy

  • RIF Veteran
  • Forum Royalty
  • ****
  • Posts: 24,953
  • Activity:
    30%
Re: Yet another poll about succession 8/12/17
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2017, 01:45:44 AM »
I think she should stay on as long as she is physically and mentally sound. There would then be immense pressure on Charles to abdicate, maybe sooner than he would want to. I think it would set a bad precedent.
 
 


Offline TLLK

  • Forum Royalty
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,307
  • Activity:
    92%
  • Gal power!!!!!!
Re: Yet another poll about succession 8/12/17
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2017, 09:49:58 AM »
Charles? popularity ?slumps before Diana anniversary? | Metro Newspaper UK The YouGov poll was requested by the Press Association.

Quote
THE number of people who believe Prince Charles has made a positive contribution to the royal family has fallen in the run-up to the 20th anniversary of the death of Princess Diana.

Some 36 per cent of the British public think the prince has been beneficial to the monarchy, a YouGov poll finds, compared to 60 per cent in 2013.

Meanwhile, 27 per cent think he has had a negative impact on the royals, in contrast to 15 per cent four years ago.

The Duke of Cambridge (below) was the royal seen as having the most positive contribution. Ranked in order, 78 per cent thought William had a positive impact, with 77 for Harry, 73 for the Duchess of Cambridge, 36 for Charles and 18 for the Duchess of Cornwall

Only 14 per cent of the public want Camilla to become queen when Charles is king.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 09:53:35 AM by TLLK »
 

Offline royalanthropologist

  • Aristocrat
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,191
  • Activity:
    20%
  • Fair and Balanced...to an extent
    • Favorite royal: Camilla Shand, Duchess of Cornwall
Re: Yet another poll about succession 8/12/17
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2017, 01:03:00 PM »
That is not a shock poll at all. For the last month, the media has run a concerted campaign against Charles. I would also add that anybody who says Catherine and William have contributed more to the monarchy than Charles is not someone whose opinion should ever be considered when choosing a head of state.

I really do hope Charles is not persuaded to retaliate or placate the media. Just get on with the job. They will soon poll themselves to exhaustion. The constant stories of Diana's woes will soon begin to tire the public as they are wont too. I would also advise holding a very tight ship with no information to the media. Let them continue making up stories or rehashing them. Charles is not a politician or a celebrity star and should not attempt to be one.

I remember when we were told that Trump was never getting anywhere near the Republican nomination, let alone the White house. Although I am not into Trump's politics, but I took great satisfaction in seeing those smug pollsters on election night. The same thing with the Brexit vote and the UK election. Plus the media that thinks they can destroy people's lives and reputations for their own selfish ends. They were once again showed up to be out of touch.

I am certain that on C&C's coronation, they will realize that there are many of us who actually like them but can't be bothered to post on the likes of DM.
"In the past, people were born royal. Nowadays, royalty comes from what you do"...Gianni Versace
 

Online Curryong

  • Forum Nobility
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,051
  • Activity:
    58%
    • Favorite royal: The Queen and Prince Harry
Re: Yet another poll about succession 8/12/17
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2017, 05:20:55 PM »

This latest poll is a YouGov one, not conducted by the Daily Mail. I have a lot of time for YouGov which was pretty accurate with regard to the Brexit vote, coming within a couple of percentage points of accuracy. It's  certainly regarded as the most accurate of the polling companies.

It's just continuing a trend. Since his sons have become young men Charles, in no polling that I've seen and I take an interest in such things, has come within a length (in racing parlance) of William and Harry, and his mother the Queen. That's just a fact of life, and no amount of rationalising these or past results makes any difference. Camilla has always finished last among the senior royals, usually behind the Wessexes.

All it does is prove, in survey after survey, that Charles has never regained even the popularity he had as a young man, and it certainly shows that the British public haven't been drinking the KoolAid as far as Camilla is concerned since she joined the BRF in spite of massive rehabilitation campaigns.
 

Offline sandy

  • RIF Veteran
  • Forum Royalty
  • ****
  • Posts: 24,953
  • Activity:
    30%
Re: Yet another poll about succession 8/12/17
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2017, 05:46:03 PM »
I think Junor's unsubtle book about Camilla also did them in. It was so ludicrous and over the top making up more stories about Diana based on hearsay and calling Camilla the "savior of the monarchy." I think it just stirred up old memories. Camilla also gave that very unwise interview, and up until then she kept her mouth shut about the past.
 
 
The following users thanked this post: Curryong

Offline royalanthropologist

  • Aristocrat
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,191
  • Activity:
    20%
  • Fair and Balanced...to an extent
    • Favorite royal: Camilla Shand, Duchess of Cornwall
Re: Yet another poll about succession 8/12/17
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2017, 06:07:01 PM »
All very true but it means zilch. A bunch of people you don't know and whom don't really know you say that they do not like you...so what? Do you sit home and have a good cry about it or do you just go about your business? I would choose the latter and I think that is what Charles is doing.

Clearly the judgments made about him have absolutely nothing to do with his work since his workload far, far exceeds the popular Cambridge. If that is the case, he is better off ignoring it as a fact of life that some people do not like him.

I am all for negative polls about Charles as long as they do not change the succession. The succession must stand or else we slide into an X-factor Republic. 

If Charles had committed a heinous crime which is unheard of among his people, I would be persuaded that he deserves to be punished in a special way. However since what he did is what many of his future subjects do: this is nothing more than hypocrisy, self-righteousness and an inability to let go of things. Nothing he can do about it at this point.  As Anne Boleyn used to say "Let them Grumble"
"In the past, people were born royal. Nowadays, royalty comes from what you do"...Gianni Versace
 

Offline TLLK

  • Forum Royalty
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,307
  • Activity:
    92%
  • Gal power!!!!!!
Re: Yet another poll about succession 8/12/17
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2017, 02:05:04 AM »
Quote
I am all for negative polls about Charles as long as they do not change the succession.
:nod:
 

Offline FanDianaFancy

  • Aristocrat
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,925
  • Activity:
    18%
Re: Yet another poll about succession 8/12/17
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2017, 06:42:02 AM »
QEII, then KC and QueenCamilla, then King William and Queen Catherine.
This is how it works. No regency, etc.
 

Online Curryong

  • Forum Nobility
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,051
  • Activity:
    58%
    • Favorite royal: The Queen and Prince Harry
Re: Yet another poll about succession 8/12/17
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2017, 06:54:44 AM »
Or rather 'Charles the Unwanted' followed by 'William the Unwilling', as a poster on Richard Palmer's Twitter page recently observed. I thought that was rather witty, not to mention accurate, myself!
 

Offline Duch_Luver_4ever

  • Aristocrat
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,341
  • Activity:
    22%
    • Favorite royal: Diana, Princess of Wales
Re: Yet another poll about succession 8/12/17
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2017, 10:15:30 AM »
"If Charles had committed a heinous crime which is unheard of among his people"

Im surprised no one took that opening and ran with it @royalanthropologist  :lol: :happy17: :lol:
"No other member of the Royal Family mattered that year, or I think for the next 17 years, it was just her." Arthur Edwards, The Sun Photographer, talking about Diana's impact.
 

Offline royalanthropologist

  • Aristocrat
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,191
  • Activity:
    20%
  • Fair and Balanced...to an extent
    • Favorite royal: Camilla Shand, Duchess of Cornwall
Re: Yet another poll about succession 8/12/17
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2017, 10:23:22 AM »
I hear you @Duch_Luver_4eve as always. He he. Questionable taste in women, emotional blindness, an addiction to dirty telephone conversations and chronic indecision are not heinous crimes against humanity....YET :hehe: :teehee:

Diana was a stunning woman, even in her final moments the doctor commented on how stunning she looked. The thing is Charles was looking for something else. Each to their own, I say :lol: :teehee:
"In the past, people were born royal. Nowadays, royalty comes from what you do"...Gianni Versace
 

Offline sandy

  • RIF Veteran
  • Forum Royalty
  • ****
  • Posts: 24,953
  • Activity:
    30%
Re: Yet another poll about succession 8/12/17
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2017, 04:02:17 PM »
Charles should not have married Diana if he cared more for someone else.  It shows he looks out for Number One and too bad if others don't like it. He got to have his cake and eat it too.
 
 

Offline amabel

  • Forum Royalty
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,380
  • Activity:
    20%
    • Favorite royal: Anne Boleyn
Re: Yet another poll about succession 8/12/17
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2017, 09:11:45 PM »
if that's the case then he need not worry.  he's going to be King, almost certainly Camila will be queen
 

 

Royal Insight Forum is not responsible for the content of external sites