Titles of Diana

sandy · August 23, 2014, 01:45:32 AM

Charles rightly so was worried that he would be blamed. And he was the surviving parent and represented their sons. I was disappointed that Diana's mother could not be more involved in this.

Charles problem was that he did not follow up on the kindness and less than a year later he was using William to promote the Camilla Campaign. And he never truly made the mother of his sons non-negotiable so there were some hatchet jobs on her from his own relatives and sympathizers. And yes, he could have discouraged the trashing by making it clear Diana was non-negotiable.

Frances Shand Kydd apparently did not think Charles so benevolent and put it into her will that he not go to her funeral.

I think Diana's sons should not be overlooked. I think they were the key people--from what I read they spoke up for their mother. Charles was not the sole voice of this.

Curryong · August 23, 2014, 02:55:36 AM

I think the boys, especially Harry who was so young, were probably numb with grief and just wanted their mother. I honestly can't see them sitting in on the arrangements to bring Diana home, or indeed with Palace officials on the funeral ceremony. I know that William was in two minds as to whether to walk in the funeral procession but was persuaded by his grandfather.

I believe it's certainly true that in the immediate aftermath of Diana's death, Charles fought for her much harder than he had ever done in her lifetime.

amabel · August 23, 2014, 03:02:01 AM

I think he was upset, Charles, shocked by Di's suddne and horrible death, and wanted to do the best he could, and he had tio make decisions for the boys who were too young. and he knew that while they might not greatly like a public funeral, the public wanted it and it was the right thing to do to give the people a chance to say goodbye to Diana.

sandy · August 23, 2014, 12:08:48 PM

Quote from: Curryong on August 23, 2014, 02:55:36 AM
I think the boys, especially Harry who was so young, were probably numb with grief and just wanted their mother. I honestly can't see them sitting in on the arrangements to bring Diana home, or indeed with Palace officials on the funeral ceremony. I know that William was in two minds as to whether to walk in the funeral procession but was persuaded by his grandfather.

I believe it's certainly true that in the immediate aftermath of Diana's death, Charles fought for her much harder than he had ever done in her lifetime.

From what I read William put in his two cents as well. And certainly Harry could have too.

That's the problem I have with Charles, he could have fought for her in her lifetime. He was in the midst of pushing Camilla in a big PR campaign when Diana died. Also, he just sat back and did not make his late ex non-negotiable and still does not. I don't see him as heroic I think he was afraid he would be blamed for it all.

amabel · August 25, 2014, 08:43:17 AM

Quote from: Curryong on August 23, 2014, 02:55:36 AM
I think the boys, especially Harry who was so young, were prob.

I believe it's certainly true that in the immediate aftermath of Diana's death, Charles fought for her much harder than he had ever done in her lifetime.

I agree about the boys,. I thin that the RF tried to keep them away from remdiners of Di's death, keeping them out walking and not watching TV or upsetting them by talking about what had happened.so I cant imagine them being involved in funeral discusosns,.
I don't really see about his "fighting for Diana" during her lifetime. I think he tried ot support her at first when he realised that she was in poor mental and physical condition, but he did not probably keep that up for long. he took her on sunny holidays, stayed home with her and the babies, but I think that he felt he was doing his best and she wasn't responding, . so gradually hel gave up. and she grew away from him and gradually became hostile to him and did not want to fit in with the way the RF did things... so hes hardly likely to "fight for her", if she's fighting against him. by the later years of her marriage, Di was using the boys against him, briefing journalists, authorising a book to put him down. Why would he "fight for her"? The RF were justifiably angry with her over this and naturally Charles was too.

Curryong · August 25, 2014, 09:25:34 AM

^^I suppose what I meant by that statement in my previous post 'Charles fought for her in death as he never had in life', amabel, was that Diana was never 'non-negotiable' to Charles in the way that Camilla was to be. (I'm not talking so much about the years when it was all going downhill fast but in the early years of the marriage.) She never felt secure in his heart, I feel, as most young brides feel.

It might well have been the result of her great neediness, and I'm sure Charles tried to reassure her, but I think she knew in her heart that she was never number one, always a distant number two.

It was a bad marriage, they had little in common and Charles was only 50 percent to blame for the failure of the marriage. In my view his greatest mistake was in listening to others, not his own heart, and marrying Diana when he didn't love her. It was there that he let Diana down and ultimately himself

tiaras · August 25, 2014, 09:44:37 AM

Quote from: amabel on August 25, 2014, 08:43:17 AM
Quote from: Curryong on August 23, 2014, 02:55:36 AM
I think the boys, especially Harry who was so young, were prob.

I believe it's certainly true that in the immediate aftermath of Diana's death, Charles fought for her much harder than he had ever done in her lifetime.
I agree about the boys,. I thin that the RF tried to keep them away from remdiners of Di's death, keeping them out walking and not watching TV or upsetting them by talking about what had happened.so I cant imagine them being involved in funeral discusosns,.
I don't really see about his "fighting for Diana" during her lifetime. I think he tried ot support her at first when he realised that she was in poor mental and physical condition, but he did not probably keep that up for long. he took her on sunny holidays, stayed home with her and the babies, but I think that he felt he was doing his best and she wasn't responding, . so gradually hel gave up. and she grew away from him and gradually became hostile to him and did not want to fit in with the way the RF did things... so hes hardly likely to "fight for her", if she's fighting against him. by the later years of her marriage, Di was using the boys against him, briefing journalists, authorising a book to put him down. Why would he "fight for her"? The RF were justifiably angry with her over this and naturally Charles was too.

:goodpost:

Limabeany · August 25, 2014, 12:00:21 PM

:goodpost: I agree. The fact does remain he entered this marriage with his brain and not his heart as a future King and not a besotted husband...

Quote from: Curryong on August 25, 2014, 09:25:34 AM
^^I suppose what I meant by that statement in my previous post 'Charles fought for her in death as he never had in life', amabel, was that Diana was never 'non-negotiable' to Charles in the way that Camilla was to be. (I'm not talking so much about the years when it was all going downhill fast but in the early years of the marriage.) She never felt secure in his heart, I feel, as most young brides feel.

It might well have been the result of her great neediness, and I'm sure Charles tried to reassure her, but I think she knew in her heart that she was never number one, always a distant number two.

It was a bad marriage, they had little in common and Charles was only 50 percent to blame for the failure of the marriage. In my view his greatest mistake was in listening to others, not his own heart, and marrying Diana when he didn't love her. It was there that he let Diana down and ultimately himself

sandy · August 25, 2014, 02:37:53 PM

Charles never publicly said he held any responsibility for the breakup of the marriage. Diana spoke for herself.

Charles had great neediness IMO. He needed a wife to have his heirs and he needed to have something on the side for his ego and for his hormones. I don't know why Diana is the only one "credited" with neediness. Her neediness came from not wanting to have to share Charles' affections with another woman. I don't blame her.

Charles and Diana should have gotten marriage counseling. Charles whining to Camilla and his pals did not help matters.

I think Charles was so self entitled he did not have to listen to his heart he thought Diana would play ball and cooperate and be civilized like APB and so did apparently Camilla.

TLLK · August 25, 2014, 03:28:46 PM

:goodpost: I agree curryong.

amabel · August 25, 2014, 07:24:51 PM

Quote from: Curryong on August 25, 2014, 09:25:34 AM
^^I suppose what I meant by that statement in my previous post 'Charles fought for her in death as he never had in life', amabel, was that Diana was never 'non-negotiable' to Charles in the way that Camilla was to be. (I'm not talking so much about the years when it was all going downhill fast but in the early years of the marriage.) She never felt secure in his heart, I feel, as most young brides feel.

It might well have been the result of her great neediness, and I'm sure Charles tried to reassure her, but I think she knew in her heart that she was never number one, always a distant number two.

Charles' words about Cam being non negotiable are form much later though. When his relationship with Camilla was a settled part of his life and he wanted to keep her, even thought there were problems about the divorce situation and wehtehr he could marry her or not. I think that he always loved her, and probably felt that even if he loved Di, in the Early years of the marriage, Cam was still very important to him and he wanted to keep up some kind of friendship with her. but Di must have been aware of his relationship with Cam, because it had re started according to Charles, and other accounts not too long after the birth of Laura in 1979 so it was going on just fairly soon before he started courting Di. and she didn't seem to mind, that he had been this woman's lover - a married woman - soon before he started to court her. So if she had a problem with Charles having feelings for Cam or keeping up a warm friendship with her, that was the time to worry about it.. but she does not seem to have. I don't believe that Charles was always in touch with Cam, he may have kept up some phone calls and so on, in the early years of the marriage, but i don't think that he saw her except at the odd social function... but I think that Di could not be reassured.. and often someone being jealous all the time DOES lead to their partner finally ending up being unfaithful.
I agree that probably Di DID feel that she was always a second best, but given that everyone knew that Charles had special feelings for Cam, the time to worry about that, about whether she was Charles's "big love" or a second best love, were before she got engaged and married.
I think that the patterns of Di's love life, later on show a need for a lot of reassurance. I think that when she embarked on a love affair, she would usually NOT see any obstacles and plunge into it, but then she was needy and wanted someone who was there for her 24/7. she wanted the same kind of full time love from Hasnat Khan a busy surgeon.. and with Ol Hoare, she seems to have wanted him to leave his wife, for her, to have been jealous when he went to see his daughter,...and possibly the attraction of Dodi Fayed was that he was not busy at any job, and could devote himself to her, al the time.

sandy · August 25, 2014, 08:08:26 PM

Once Charles outed Camilla in 1994 via Dimbleby and the revelation of Charles secretary that the other woman was Camilla and forced the APB divorce I think he was obligated. Her father got angry at him.

Charles had no business trying to have a "friendship" with the married mistress. He knew darn well they could not stay friends. No wife likes another woman as the husband's "friend."

Diana felt Camilla and Charles were "over." Diana was not in Charles circle being a lot younger and I doubt she knew Charles was bedding Camilla as late as 1979-80. She may have thought they were "over" in the early seventies. Charles passed her off as his safe married friend. I doubt that Diana would have been so trusting as to hang around with Camilla if she knew she only recently left Charles' bed.

Diana did not "drive" Charles back to Camilla. This is exactly what Penny Junor claims and she is very sympathetic to Charles. It is the oldest story in the book and excuse for straying hubbies to say the wife "made him" cheat.

Charles proposed to Diana, why is he absolved and Diana "asked for it" by saying yes to him.

Dodi and Diana were dating. Why read all this psychological stuff into it.

I think Charles shows he needed a lot of reassurance, a mistress and a wife were needed by the Great Man.

Again, more free passes for Charles and Camilla.