Diana's emotional health

sandy · July 22, 2017, 09:56:06 PM

Quote from: amabel on July 22, 2017, 04:36:09 PM
She didn't cope well with life within the RF. She was ill and bulimic on her honeymoon, and they were worrying about her, and she was seeing a psychiatrist from early on..
She didn't fit in well with the RF at leisure, even if she was good at the public side of the job.

Yes, that is right. She was mostly stressed over Camilla and spending the honeymoon with the inlaws.

But that said. Remarkably, despite all the tension she excelled in royal duties. She had some moments of panic when she was about to get out of the car on the first walkabout in Wales. Then when she got out, she just pitched in and worked and the public took to her. On one of the appearances it was raining and she was asked by security if she would like to get back in the car. She said well if they (the crowd) can stand it so can I. With all the inner tensions, she still was able to excel in royal appearances. Once she got out of the honeymoon with the in-laws and she and Charles took went to the Caribbean that Winter, the photographs (they were photographed unawares) showed them happy and relaxed.

amabel · August 05, 2017, 07:59:21 AM

She didn't fit In well in private. She didn't like Balmoral. She hated Charles going shooting. She didn't like the formality or the way that Charles deferred ot his mother and grandmother, even ifi it was quite correct to do that, as they were queens and in addition they were oldier ladies. She found the formality of the house party daunting and the queen said that she'd "have to get used to it".
She did do the public part of the job well, but it was stressful to her and I think she would really have preferred to be at home preparing for her baby.

sandy · August 05, 2017, 11:43:09 AM

Diana went there every year until the separation. She also knew the boys liked Balmoral. I know she did not like shooting and stayed away from participating or watching.

amabel · August 05, 2017, 12:26:04 PM

Quote from: sandy on August 05, 2017, 11:43:09 AM
Diana went there every year until the separation. She also knew the boys liked Balmoral. I know she did not like shooting and stayed away from participating or watching.

She had to go there every year, for goodness sakes. Why do you keep saying this that she went to Polo or went to Balmoral all the time as if it was evidence that she liked these things? She didn't. Once she was separated from C she gave up going because she no longer was expected to put in an appearance. She only showed up at royal things that she still HAD to show up at, once she had split up with Charles. she went to Sandringham for Xmas church but could not even face lunch with the family for the sake of her sons.

amabel · August 06, 2017, 08:00:07 AM

we are not talking about whether she complained or not. The fact is that she didn't enjoy most of the things that most of the RF enjoy, and that back then were considered mandatory for any royal wife to join in iwht such as long holidays at Balmoral, country sports, etc.
I've pointed out, that Diana didn't like this stuff, and she only joined in it because it was part of what was expected of her as a royal wife. When she didn't have to go to royal events in the country, she didn't go. This is an indication of how she didn't fit in with the RF in their private life, which was at the time considered very important. The queen is now I think more relaxed about members of the family turning up for Christmas, she allows members of their birth families ot join in if they want to or for couples to spend a few days at Sandringham and other days with the partner's family. Back then however, it was expected that the RF would socialise in a big bunch at Shooting times, or Christmas and they didn't usually spend much time at important festivals with say the wife's own family.
Diana however clearly was not at all happy all through her married life at the trips to Balmoral, weekends spent watching polo or hosting shooting parties. Once she was free of that marital/Royal obligiation she virtiually never went.

sandy · August 06, 2017, 10:15:53 AM

She did fit in with RF life, she had two royal sons. She knew they liked outdoor sports so she went with them and Charles. It was not just because she "had to." Of course she'd want to be with her family. When she separated from Charles, it was not mandatory and she opted not to go. (she was not given a warm welcome and Charles was there with his friends, who had provided safe houses for him and Camilla). The first year at Balmoral was no pleasant because she had morning sickness and this was an entirely new experience for her---she literally had her honeymoon with Charles and his family. Even Princess Elizabeth had time away from the family when she married Prince Philip.

amabel · August 06, 2017, 11:45:58 AM

By the time the boys were at an age to get seriously into country sports, she was separated from C... and she simply DID NOT like the country sports, the country life etc. As she said to Rosa Moncton, when away on holiday with her, the boys were out "killing things", with their father, and she was away on a sunshine holiday.
Her lack of tolerance for the country life was bound to put her at odds wit the RF. Why do you keep insisting that because she went, it meant she wasn't that far apart from her in laws? She was. She only went to shoots etc because it was obligatory as Charles' wife.. She only went to Balmoral for the same reason.
she didn't like it there not just on the first visit, but ever after. And they didn't "spend their honeymoon" there. They spent several weeks there, after they had had 3 weeks on the Royal Yacht. Most people don't get suc a long honeymoon and for a royal the privileges are mixed in with the social duties.

TLLK · August 09, 2017, 01:19:40 AM

Quote from: amabel on August 05, 2017, 07:59:21 AM
She didn't fit In well in private. She didn't like Balmoral. She hated Charles going shooting. She didn't like the formality or the way that Charles deferred ot his mother and grandmother, even ifi it was quite correct to do that, as they were queens and in addition they were oldier ladies. She found the formality of the house party daunting and the queen said that she'd "have to get used to it".
She did do the public part of the job well, but it was stressful to her and I think she would really have preferred to be at home preparing for her baby.

I agree @amabel that Diana didn't care for the country life and its traditional activities:stalking, hunting, fishing etc.. While she faithfully appeared for the annual Balmoral trips, it's easy to see that she didn't care for the lengthy holidays in the Scottish Highlands. She and Charles were staying in their own place on the estate in order to escape some of the rigidity expected at the main house. Diana's preferred holiday spots were the sunny and warm climates of the Caribbean and the Mediterranean where she could indulge in swimming, tennis, and sunbathing.

Unfortunately for Diana the stress in attending these types of events with the extended BRF was exacerbating her bulimia episodes.

amabel · August 09, 2017, 04:45:05 AM

Exactly, She didn't have any choice about the spending a lot of their leisure time with the RF, or doing the country sports things. Charles loved shooting hunting and fishing and polo, and horsey stuff. He loved the country. Diana had to put up iwht it as that was expected of her as his wife. Nowadays the queen does not seem to insist on the same everyone turning up at country locations for holidays to enjoy blood sports and country life.. so younger royal wives don't have to endure so much of it if they don't like it. in later years, Diana had to take the boys to Highgrove for weekends, to see their father, but she hated it and spent a lot of her time on the phone to friends or in her room, watching TV and trying to avoid being there.
And I think that she was very good at the public side of her job, but still in the early years she found t very stressful and wished she didn't have to do so much of it... but she was so popular with the public that the RF were keen for her to be seen out doing engagements. I think she would have been happier in the first few years of marriage if she could have been a full time mum, looked after the kids herself with an occasional bit of help from a Nanny and not done the public engagement she had to do. I think she really only began to take on more work and enjoy it when her children were a little older and she began to find the work side of life a welcome escape from an increasingly difficult marriage.

dianab · August 10, 2017, 08:26:27 PM

Quote from: sandy on August 06, 2017, 02:05:05 PM
When they were small they did like the outdoors. There was that Christmas card where they were going together on a picnic in the country. They were children and doing the country pursuits. Charles himself quit hunting for a while because one of his girlfriends Zoe Sallis was a vegetarian. Diana did not grouse to Morton about how horrid it was Each Year that she went to Balmoral. The woman could not have those candlelit dinners that newlyweds have because she would have dinner with Charles and all his relatives on their honeymoon. The Balmoral trip was the last stop on the honeymoon before Charles and Diana's work on a tour of Wales. It has been referred to as part of the honeymoon: Broadlands, the Britannia Cruise, then Balmoral.
OT: Pippa had a long honeymoon and she's not a royal, just a relative of one

She said as it was the most stressful time of year as far as she was concerned.

sandy · August 10, 2017, 09:03:27 PM

She also said finding out about Charles and Camilla brought on the "rampant bulimia." She did get it under control with help of Dr Lipsedge. I think being with the boys brought some comfort when she went to Bulimia. the one who probably had the most discomfort at Balmoral (arguably) was Sarah Ferguson in 1992, when those headlines came out (with her financial adviser) when she was staying at Balmoral with Prince Andrew . The Queen summoned her and she had to pack up and leave ASAP.

TLLK · August 10, 2017, 10:19:52 PM

Quote from: dianab on August 10, 2017, 08:26:27 PM
She said as it was the most stressful time of year as far as she was concerned.

Understandably so @dianab. I'm glad for Diana that she finally was receptive to the fact that she required psychiatric care to help her with her eating disorder.

Duch_Luver_4ever · August 11, 2017, 03:08:42 AM

Quote from: TLLK on August 10, 2017, 10:19:52 PM
Understandably so @dianab. I'm glad for Diana that she finally was receptive to the fact that she required psychiatric care to help her with her eating disorder.

Me too, but im very upset that they didnt use him straight away, especially with the whole Sarah situation, and that Charles was aware of it. But they thought the palace and their docs knew best, shades of downton abbey with the father wanting to use the "proper" doctor.

Wasted a lot of precious time...which we now know was at a premium for her.

TLLK · August 11, 2017, 11:28:03 AM

I understand what you are saying @Duch_Luver_4ever but I do believe that Diana was in denial about her eating disorder for years and treatment with Lipsedge or anyone else wasn't going to be effective until she was ready to accept it. (Sadly it is common for those affected by this form of mental illness to deny that there is a problem and to refuse treatment.) From what I have read one of her friends more or less threatened to expose her problems to the press unless she agreed to seek help. Interventions aren't pleasant for all involved but sometimes they are necessary to save someone's life.

royalanthropologist · August 11, 2017, 11:39:45 AM

Plus the aristocrats have a very bad history of dealing with mental illness. They tend to want to lock them up until they die. It was in Diana's interest never to be diagnosed as having a mental illness so she had to put up appearances and live in denial for as long as possible.

sandy · August 11, 2017, 12:11:01 PM

Diana did not get the right help for her bulimia nervosa. Bulimics are not "hidden away" even during Diana's time. She was not a Zelda Fitzgerald in and out of institutions. She got the bulimia under control with the right doctor. Her sister Sarah got her anorexia under control. Diana's eating disorder never was at the level of Karen Carpenter's. Diana had morning sickness. Did the royals think that made her "mentally ill" just because the women in the family never experienced it?

Double post auto-merged: August 11, 2017, 12:14:02 PM

Quote from: TLLK on August 11, 2017, 11:28:03 AM
I understand what you are saying @Duch_Luver_4ever but I do believe that Diana was in denial about her eating disorder for years and treatment with Lipsedge or anyone else wasn't going to be effective until she was ready to accept it. (Sadly it is common for those affected by this form of mental illness to deny that there is a problem and to refuse treatment.) From what I have read one of her friends more or less threatened to expose her problems to the press unless she agreed to seek help. Interventions aren't pleasant for all involved but sometimes they are necessary to save someone's life.

Diana had the wrong sort of help early on. Why Sarah did not phone her and tell her to see Dr. Lipsedge is beyond me. Sarah got the right help;. Diana was just fed valium which accomplished nothing. Diana did not refuse treatment early on, but had the wrong kind of "help" and apparently the wrong doctors. Charles even sent Van Der Post to her which it seems was pretty useless.

TLLK · August 11, 2017, 12:22:07 PM

QuoteDiana had morning sickness. Did the royals think that made her "mentally ill" just because the women in the family never experienced it?

While both can involve vomiting they're two entirely different things. Bulimia is a form of mental illness and morning sickness is a well-known side effect often occurring during the first trimester in a pregnancy. While QEII and some of her family members might not have been afflicted by it, most people are aware that other women can experience it and wouldn't consider it to be a form of mental illness. I'm not sure why you are comparing the two.

royalanthropologist · August 11, 2017, 12:40:38 PM

Yes I agree with TLLK. Morning sickness is entirely different from bulimia. I doubt anyone would classify morning sickness as a mental illness but bulimia definitely is.

sandy · August 11, 2017, 06:46:21 PM

Quote from: TLLK on August 11, 2017, 12:22:07 PM
While both can involve vomiting they're two entirely different things. Bulimia is a form of mental illness and morning sickness is a well-known side effect often occurring during the first trimester in a pregnancy. While QEII and some of her family members might not have been afflicted by it, most people are aware that other women can experience it and wouldn't consider it to be a form of mental illness. I'm not sure why you are comparing the two.

She had a double whammy so to speak. She had a difficult pregnancy with William and felt really sick from it plus the bulimia. I am comparing the two because the royal ladies reportedly did not understand why she felt sick from the pregnancy since none of them had morning sickness. So they did not "understand" plus the hormonal reactions to pregnancy did not help matters. The bulimia and the morning sickness together were horrendous for her and so she said to Morton. She said she felt "sick as a parrot. I'm comparing the two because she really had a bad time with both combined. That first time at Balmoral must have been awful for her. It was a combination of this that most likely caused her not to want to come down to formal dinners being sick to her stomach and all that.

I am not understanding why the royals would feel they did not understand it because Diana's sister Sarah had anorexia another eating disorder. On Charles' part he should have had some understanding of it since supposedly he helped Sarah through it.

tiaras · August 11, 2017, 07:04:11 PM

Can you have bulimia while being pregnant?

Quote
since none of them had morning sickness

All pregnant women have morning sickness. It's because of the change in chemicals in the blood. So high HCG levels cause MS and its healthy as long as it's not excessive. (note: I've never been pregerss so correct me if I'm wrong). I think you're referring to post natal depression that is quite rare and most royal women didn't understand that because most women wouldn't naturally understand that as it's not that common.

sandy · August 11, 2017, 07:28:20 PM

No she said she had bad morning sickness with William and the bulimia too. It's in the Morton book. The bulimia apparently came first because she got the treatment and the doctors gave her valium. When she found out she was pregnant, she had to stop taking the valium. Then the morning sickness came. She had indicated the other royal ladies did not have the morning sickness (unless she meant severe morning sickness) and did not understand what was wrong. She had the post natal depression and bulimia also. She looked her worst with her looking unhealthily thin a few months after William was born. She indicated the pregnancy was easier when she was expecting Harry.

amabel · August 11, 2017, 08:07:23 PM

Nonsense,whatever Diana may have said, the RF know about morning sickness and were not comparing it with bulimia.

TLLK · August 11, 2017, 08:15:25 PM

Can you have bulimia while being pregnant?
All pregnant women have morning sickness. It's because of the change in chemicals in the blood. So high HCG levels cause MS and its healthy as long as it's not excessive. (note: I've never been pregerss so correct me if I'm wrong). I think you're referring to post natal depression that is quite rare and most royal women didn't understand that because most women wouldn't naturally understand that as it's not that common.
[/quote] Yes you can still have an eating disorder: anorexia, bulimia, binge eating while pregnant which can harm mother and the developing fetus. Pregnancy and Eating Disorders | National Eating Disorders Association
As for all pregnant women having morning sickness I'd have to say that isn't the case. Yes there are elevated HCG levels, but not every pregnant woman experiences nausea and/or vomiting which are the typical symptoms related to the condition. And trust me it is not just limited to just the morning and for some unlucky mothers can last the entire pregnancy. :( One thing can surprise first time mothers is the fatigue that occurs in the first trimester.

Post natal hormone fluctuations can affect many mothers and continue for months after the baby's birth. Some moms are a little weepy aka "baby blues," others can have post-natal depression like I had after my second child was born and the most severe form is post-natal psychosis.Postnatal Depression

amabel · August 11, 2017, 08:20:52 PM

Of course you can have bulimia, while pregnant. Its a mental disorder caused by - well no one really knows at present.
Diana was under serious stress, it is possible that as well as the nausea that often comes with pregnancy, she was deliberately making herself sick. And while not all pregnant women have it, I can't imagine that most women don't know about morning sickness and how It can affect women in the early months of pregnancy.. and the Royal women are no different. They almost certainly would not have known about bulimia, but I'm sure they knew about both morning sickness and post natal depression.

sandy · August 11, 2017, 08:22:13 PM

Quote from: amabel on August 11, 2017, 08:07:23 PM
Nonsense,whatever Diana may have said, the RF know about morning sickness and were not comparing it with bulimia.

She said they did not understand. I'm just referring to the Morton book and I am only the messenger. I did not say they were comparing it with bulimia. Just that she was really sick from the pregnancy and bulimia combined. She said she could not stand up without feeling nauseous.