Fox hunting

Elizabeth · July 30, 2006, 08:49:23 PM

Several times I have encountered that fox hunting was banned and was pretty astonished to hear that it is allowed to hunt foxes but without hounds.
I wanteds to ask you all what do you know about fox hunting, how do you feel about it and what do you think about the royal family's eager participation on this point???
It would be nice if experts of both sides (pro and against hunting) could serve us with core information. :thumbsup:
I hope a nice debate could be held.

With kind regards,
Liz :flowers:

polo_pony · July 30, 2006, 08:59:34 PM

SAY NO TO HUNTING! fur kills.

Anyway, I am totally against foxhunting. I don't care if your Prince Charles, or Benny-Jim from the grocer down the road. It's wrong. Killing, anything, but KILLING a defenceless animal! a fox in no means can outrun a hunting dog, or defend from the slashing of a hunter's dog's mouth tearing the fur off, making them being thrashed about, having blood spurted everywhere. It's wrong. Why, have we come to the point that killing is okay, oh yes, killing is a game. No! We don't have to resort to killing , we can find an alternative to enjoy ourselves. Would you say that a fox is a mammal? Would you? Would you say, HEY! Lets go kill Jon Doe, he's an stupid defenceless kid. Were bored, we need something to do. Boo hoo. No, humans, are mammals. Foxes are mammals. Like it or not, we share this earth with animals, we have no right whatsoever to kill a small animal to enjoy ourselves. No. The foxes have a right to live there life, just like we do. if WE deserves rights on this WORLD, so do foxes. Foxes have a place, and yes, play a part in this world. it's wrong. Killing=wrong. You wouldn't kill me ( i hope) , so why kill an fox? Why, being an animal, make it suddenly OKAY to kill them? because..they are orage? bushy-tailed? cute? defenceless? yes, this may be an age old sport, but not anymore. Not anymore. As a proud supooter of PETA, Fox hunting is wrong.

( not directing this at anyway, this remains my opinion! :) )

Stix Chix · July 30, 2006, 11:03:49 PM

i'm not against hunting but i do have some reservations about it if ur not eating what ur shooting, fishing or trapping. and certainly i'm against any sort of excessive hunting....meaning the animal goes extint.

that said i was sorry to hear fox hunting was getting banned in England. hypocritical i kno since the fox isnt eaten afterwards! i was sorry to hear it partly bcuz of the tradition attached to it and partly bcuz culling animals is sometimes necessary (for the good not only of human intrests but for the health of the environment as well...and often other animals.) and if people want to dress up and blow horns while they do it...well....ok weird but go for it! :laugh:

QuoteKilling, anything, but KILLING a defenceless animal! a fox in no means can outrun a hunting dog, or defend from the slashing of a hunter's dog's mouth....

a fox has more defenses then a dog. mainly its brain. they dont say "sly as a fox" for nothing. ;) foxes and dogs come from the same family and r a lot alike. the same things that help a dog find a fox help the fox get away from the dog. they can and often do out run the dogs. plenty of foxes have saved themselves simply by tireing out the humans and horses who must call back the dogs from the chase. most foxes arent killed by the dogs but get shot by the human hunters after the dogs have tracked or chased it to its burrows. although they do send a terrier down the hole to corner it. most foxes die this way. the hunters will give the dogs the dead fox as a reward. its not pretty but few things in nature are when you get right down to it. :shrug:

QuoteIt's wrong. Why, have we come to the point that killing is okay, oh yes, killing is a game. No! We don't have to resort to killing , we can find an alternative to enjoy ourselves.

killing has always been ok. like you said we're all mammals. red in tooth and claw. there r microscopic things in you, on you and all around you fighting to the death right now. eating meat is what gave humanity its complex brain. we'd b pray if we hadn't become omnivores....actually we're still pray! people still get killed and eaten by carnivores. and thats just the fellow mammals. there r poisonous insects and reptiles that'll kill you just as quickly. trust me no carnivorous animal will ever chose to become vegetarian or decide it's immoral to kill and eat a human--or anything else--if they are hungry enough to go after one. that sort of thinking is a strictly human privilege. :happy: it's not as likely for most humans to b killed and eaten by an animal. but it does happen every year. crocodiles, sharks, hyenas, hippo! give em all space!

but back to foxes!

Quoteso why kill an fox? Why, being an animal, make it suddenly OKAY to kill them? because..they are orage? bushy-tailed? cute? defenceless? y

bcuz foxes are a predator which inconveniences human intrests. simple as that really. farmers started killing foxes bcuz foxes were killing their livestock. chickens, geese etc. and lambs mostly. farmers mostly trapped or poisoned them. then the upper classes started running out of deer (they'd already run out of wolves and boar) and made fox hunting the new "exclusive" sport. farmers werent allowed to kill them anymore but they didnt care, at least the rich people were doing it for them. that was centuries ago and nothing has changed really. people still enjoy the chase and will pay out the nose to do it. and farmers still need to keep their livelyhood safe from predators. even if it's banned farmers will continue to kill foxes bcuz foxes will continue to go after their easy prey livestock. but farmers wont give the foxes a fair chance to outrun their hunters. they'll just use traps or poison like they did before. frankly i'd rather have a pack of dogs after me then die foaming at the mouth from poison....if i were a fox that is. ;)

wow. that was rather long! :happytears: sorry! :blush:

Wombat · July 30, 2006, 11:28:46 PM

IMHO...I agree with Stix...hunting for pure enjoyment rather than for necessity is not good.

That said..if the element of neccessity is combined with sport then I also have nothing against it. So long as it is not done in a cruel and inhumane fashion.

I loathe foxes. They are a huge pest here. They cause major distress to our native wildlife not to mention farmers stock. They were an intrroduced species to Australia and therefore IMHO they should be hunted and wiped out. They have upset the natural eco processes and have nearly eradicted some forms of small native marsupials.

Baldwin Spottingham could probably tell us more about this issue. ;)

polo_pony · July 31, 2006, 12:23:25 AM

Okay, foxes are smarter than dogs, but obviously can't outrun them. I think it's cruel and necessary, to today's standard's to kill anything, for sport. Hunting, and fox hunting are wrong, if foxes are eating your chickens, too bad so sad, put up a fence.

But today, I think they can dress up and blow horns, just don't kill the foxes. i mean, I would never EVER be able to kill something. I can't even bring myself to kill a bug. They're are 'mock' hunts, when you drag a scent, but there is just no fox.

Foxes may be a nuisance, but you don't have to kill them. Brutally. I mean really, who enjoys a fox being ripped apart by hounds? Who enjoy's killing something? If foxes eat other things, thats nature, it's not human nature to kill something that doesn't need to be killed.

Become Anti-torture

QuoteEvery part of a fox hunt is cruel - from the chase, to the dig-out, to the kill. There is no 'quick nip to the back of the neck' in hunting. Lead hounds will snap at any part of the running fox, before the pack rip it to pieces. If the fox manages to go to ground, then it will be forced to fight with terriers for hours before being hauled out and, if lucky, shot.

Copper the fox made national headlines. After being chased, and caught, by the Chiddingford, Leconfield and Cowdray Hunt hounds, he managed to bolt down a rabbit hole. Luckily, Hunt Saboteurs were close by and physically blocked the hounds from Copper, using a policeman's helmet.

Copper had suffered bite wounds to his rear flanks and was losing blood from his penis due to kidney damage caused during the stress and exhaustion of the long run from the hounds. The vet was able to offer scientific evidence that hunted foxes undergo pathological stress, a level of suffering so intense that they can die even if they succeed in escaping the jaws of the hounds. He was quoted as saying 'I have never seen such trauma in a dog, even a badly injured one.'

Post-mortems commissioned by the Home Office on four foxes killed by hunting revealed that there was evidence of multiple bite wounds to the face, head, rib cage, heart, lungs and stomach. (The Observer, 11/6/00)

yep, this is just an opinion of a tree-hugger. In no means is this directed at anyone. :)

heather · July 31, 2006, 12:32:55 AM

Fox hunting is a "blood sport", in much the same way as cock fighting, dog fighting , bull baiting etc.
In my family the men and women all went to "the shoot" and killed hundreds of pheasants et al.
Tradition.......you know.
Other old traditions included locking up "not quite right in the head" members of the family, the Laird having first go at a bride to be, kicking off entire families from the estate, if one of them crossed a line in familiarity.
Aaaaaaaaah the good old days!
when children and were stuffed up a chimney, and grateful to be there! 8)
Heather :hiya:

polo_pony · July 31, 2006, 12:34:07 AM

I don't see fox hunting as a tradition anymore... :(

heather · July 31, 2006, 12:34:45 AM

.........in saying the above.......I wonder how we all might feel if they changed it to "RAT" hunting? :shrug:

polo_pony · July 31, 2006, 12:35:18 AM

oh sorry, I didn't know. :flowers: What's RAT hunting? :hmm:

heather · July 31, 2006, 12:44:36 AM

:)

If the animal they were chasing down and tearing apart was a rat, would be people get all worked up about it? :teehee:

polo_pony · July 31, 2006, 12:47:19 AM

yes, I think so. Animals are animals, make that a fox, rat. Mammals are mammals. Some people might regard animals 'lower' or 'higher' then others, but really we are all the same. If rats were extinct, our 'web of life' would suffer the consequences. they do torture rats too, in laboratory's. But, I''ll stay on topic and only refer to foxes. :)

Stix Chix · July 31, 2006, 12:53:01 AM

terriers were originally bred to hunt rats i think. just like fox hounds were bred to hunt foxes. and just like polo ponies were bred to play polo. it all depends on ur perspective on wether its useful or not. or moral or not. or cruel or not. or fair or not. so there r a million different opinions and no single answer. ;)

polo_pony · July 31, 2006, 12:55:36 AM

True. But this is a friendly debate. I know I'm a nuisance, but we don't start a polo_pony hunt. :teehee:

Stix Chix · July 31, 2006, 01:00:32 AM

^ naw! you're not a nuisance. :) it's just a difficult question to answer easily. i understand your point of view and agree with some points but i cant completely agree with it. u kno? :happy:

polo_pony · July 31, 2006, 01:52:41 AM

of course. We all have our different views on everything! :) :happy:

M · July 31, 2006, 06:15:17 AM

I like foxes, unless they're in the hen house. :happy:

Elizabeth · August 01, 2006, 01:15:05 PM

I have read all your replies and do thank you so much that some of you answered.
A common statement many farmers do give on this subject is that in order to keep the foxes under control (and aways from their hens,etc.) it is vitally needed to hunt.
How about that? And on the other hand isn't hunting somehow a God.given right to mankind ? :hmm:

polo_pony · August 01, 2006, 02:21:54 PM

Well, I don't think it's a God given right to kill. But, I don't know, if it was in the bible, the bible was written a long time ago. :shrug:

Yeah, some farmers might want them hunted, but I think, hey, foxes will always be around. yes, kill one that is the seemly pest, but more will come. I think farmers, landowners, -whatever- would be best advised to put up a fence, a good one, to keep all unwanted pesks at bay. Killing shouldn't be the easy way out to a simple solution of a fence, make that a high fence. :)

heather · August 01, 2006, 11:23:43 PM

The fox is quite adept at digging under fences! :teehee:

blue eyes · August 03, 2006, 04:50:41 AM

I know some of you are going to get upset and that is not my intent... :flowers: my opinion is
ps. I didn't read anyone elses post before writing, I just went off of what I think
Nothing seperates us from the other mammals on this earth except our mentality. We seem to think that we are the superior being. Well, we aren't. We are part of the food chain, sometimes we are on top and sometimes we aren't. From a farming stand point, fox hunting is good. In a country where you are not allowed to own a gun, trained dogs are your only line of defense from predators who want to eat your livestock (sheep, goats, calfs, ect..). What is the difference in having a hunting party go out and hunt compared to a farmer turning out his sheep dog or hounds in the middle of the night to do the same job. Are we going to outlaw dogs next. I most certainy have not seen the anti-hunters offering to replace the livestock that are lost. I also don't see them camping out at night trying to protect the livestock that get mamed or eaten. Call it a sport, call it a game...whatever. It does have it's purpose and can be a useful tool to prevent loss. The people who feed this world are the least respected and it makes me sick. Everyone seems to have a cause to fight for and very few have solutions.

Okay off of my soapbox..I think fox hunting should be legal, I eat meat but don't wear fur because I think it is ugly..you just look like you need to shave or pluck or wax whatever :rolleyes:

hippie_cyndi · August 03, 2006, 05:51:46 AM

i agree with you blue eyes...i think 'fox hunting' is a rich man's sport...it has little 2 do with actual farmers...i know how 2 hunt...learned it from a young age...i can shoot anything i wanna get rid of...or kill....but 2 argue its a matter of opinion...whether fox hunting is 'cruel'...is like arguing 'torture' is a matter of opinion :rolleyes: cus we are really speaking on behalf of the hunted/tortured...in this case...fox...which when he's trapped by the dog...is ripped 2 pieces...quite disgusting if you've ever been on one....its inhumane...&..i think a way for lazy ass men 2 feel like men...instead of going out 2 wars :gaah:

i'm all for hunting...as long you eat what you kill...besides...respect for nature...&...animals.... doesn't mean being a vegan....but it means...respecting living species...understanding...we are on their territory...we are the intrudors...not the other way around...&...if alot of these pro-fox hunting has all the energy...2 break into the parliament...line up for hrs...protesting against the ban...maybe they shoudl use same energy....on helping the farmers...suffering from lose of their cattles/sheeps thanks 2 MC....&.....FD...or even lifting a finger...doing a decent labor ones in their life.

Quote from: heather on July 31, 2006, 12:32:55 AM
Fox hunting is a "blood sport", in much the same way as cock fighting, dog fighting , bull baiting etc.
In my family the men and women all went to "the shoot" and killed hundreds of pheasants et al.
Tradition.......you know.
Other old traditions included locking up "not quite right in the head" members of the family, the Laird having first go at a bride to be, kicking off entire families from the estate, if one of them crossed a line in familiarity.
Aaaaaaaaah the good old days!
when children and were stuffed up a chimney, and grateful to be there! 8)
Heather :hiya:

:lmao: kewl :lmao:

blue eyes · August 03, 2006, 06:34:03 AM

I guess I don't see the differece in the foxes being allowed to rip sheep, goats and calves limb from limb...and a hunting party going out and hunting down a fox. If shooting is humane then what happens when the animal doesn't die right away...
A sheep dog will do the same thing that those hunting dogs do.

I think this has little to do with torture and protecting animals. I more think it has to do with young people feeling like they need a cause. So they start with what the upper crust of society does that they don't do and say "Look at those barbarians" "They are so misguided, lets change them and their way of life to suit our way of life"....I think that if more people tended to their own business then we as a society would have less problems...People now days are to busy talking about what the other guy is doing wrong...to do right themselves.
I remember watching as the verdict was read about banning fox hunts....a lady who had been campaigning for the ban cheered as the decision was handed down...At first I was like "Score one for the tree huggers" but the I noticed she was wearing a wool suit...I had to laugh ...it dawned on me that she has obviously had a bad experience with a sheep or a sheppard broke her heart :shrug: I lmao
I don't think it has to do with them feeling like men or war or whatever...because women go tooo and there are ex military and current military as well as civillians on the hunts.I do agree it is for the wealth, but most of the time anyone can come...

blue eyes · August 03, 2006, 06:36:01 AM

PS

I think the ending is gross too Hippie C
:gaah:

Jenee · August 03, 2006, 03:11:16 PM

Quote from: hippie_cyndi on August 03, 2006, 05:51:46 AMwe are on their territory...we are the intrudors...not the other way around

What?! Why on earth do you think that?! It isn't like we came down from space and invaded Earth!! We have a right to be here, just like everything else!

We also have a right to feed ourselves, and if that means having to kill foxes, either to eat (:shrug:) or to stop them from destroying another food source, then that is our RIGHT.

M · August 03, 2006, 05:18:24 PM

Do they eat the fox? :blink:

I don't think I'd like to eat a fox. :unsure: