How The Duchess of Cornwall Won Our Hearts

[cate1949]

obviously just my opinion .....

if PC leaves before Cam - W and H will treat her with the greatest respect at the ending rituals etc - and then she will disappear into her private life.  No more invites.

Cam's kids will not play any sort of big role in the BRF if she becomes Queen.  It will be all about PC and his heirs.  Of a necessity.

If PC makes it to the throne - and personally - after all his waiting - I hope he gets his moment - the coronation ceremony will be more low key less elaborate perhaps than the Queen's - so perhaps the issue of Cam's role may not be so big an issue.  She may end up as Queen consort - but not necessarily be "crowned" at the coronation of PC.  Such an approach will mollify those opposed to Cam as Queen but still give her the honor he wants her to have.

I do not know if she ever aspired to be Queen - but she sure was determined to exercise a very big role in his life - more than one's average mistress.  I think she was a dominant figure in his life - he is often indecisive - she is the decider.  She - even when he was still married - was a big figure in his "court" - their group of friends and social events.  They went to parties together - Diana was excluded.  She was hostess at Highgrove. They used to meet at that club Annabel's.  That sort of thing.  So while she may not have hoped to be Queen in those days - she sure liked her status and asserted it.  As in "I may be the mistress but I am still number 1".  I wonder if she had been more circumspect - Charles too - if Diana would have gone so ballistic

Look at W and K wedding footage - parts where Cam looks distraught - on the verge of tears - very upset.  Don't know why - but maybe she pays a price we do not see or know of.  She may not enjoy "winning" as much as we think.

[sandy]

Camilla still grins for the cameras and poses in bling. I don't think she has any regrets.

Camilla knew Diana was upset from the get go and her sending the cufflinks to Charles was to show Diana who was boss. IMO anyway. APB was well trained to be civilized but obviously Diana was not willing to "share." If she were she'd play the game and make nice with Camilla and think it an honor that Charles chose HER and let Charles have his fun with Camilla and they all could Play Nice.  According to the Settlelen tapes she asked Charles why that woman (Camilla was always around). I don't think it would have made any difference if Camilla was "circumspect". Diana told Bashir that well meaning friends told her about Camilla and her relationship with Charles and Diana talked about her instinct making her aware her husband was cheating.  Camilla had no business being hostess at Highgrove. She usurped Diana's place and even undermined Diana. Lily Langtry and other mistresses of Edward VII never dared to do this nor did they insult the royal wife.

Charles also would not spend megabucks (beginning ca. 1997) to hire a spin doctor to work on Camilla's image--to keep her as a mistress. She knew darn well the promotion to wife was the object of the PR.  Even in Diana's lifetime, a documentary was prepared about Camilla's life and Charles had planned to escort her to a charity event that Fall.

Bradford wrote that unlike straying husbands who feel guilty and are nice to their wives, Charles was more hostile to his wife when he went back to Camilla.

[cinrit]

APB was not trained to be civilized .... he was cheating on Camilla long before she cheated on him.  He knew how to play the game because he initiated it.

For anyone who thinks, or hopes, that Camilla would fade into the background should Charles predecease her, that might be fine for William and Harry, though I would hope they wouldn't drop her like a hot potato.  I think they were both raised better than that.  But let's don't forget that it's not just William and Harry anymore ... there's a child to be considered now.  Hoping that Charles has many more good years here on Earth, there will probably be more than one child, and those children will have spent time with Camilla and possibly have gotten close to her.  Were she to simply drop out of sight, they'd probably miss her.  She's a step-grandmother, absolutely ... but, without disrespect to Diana, she's still a grandmother figure that they will have known from birth.

Cindy

[sandy]

There were advantages for him to be "civilized." Camilla was not apparently "miserable" enough to divorce APB and she could have. The civilized relationship suited them fine. And APB accepted it--it is subject to speculation how and why he accepted it. He could have been "trained" or "encouraged" by the "perk": of being "in" with the Prince of Wales and his circle. APB and CPB cheated on each other rampantly during their courtship so the outcome of their marriage should not have come as much of a surprise to either of them. Although she did her duty and had the two children for him.

Camilla has her own grandchildren to get close to. She is not George's grandmother and I think Wiliam and Harry will talk about their mother to their children. Since she never raised William and Harry Camilla can't talk to the children about how she raised their parents. The boys will talk about how they were raised by Diana, the childrens' grandmother.  There is no "child" to consider for Camila--she has many of her own to spend time with. The children will have a grandmother figure who is an actual grandmother: Carole Middleton and the mother of Harry's future wife.  And I don't doubt the children will  be proud to be Diana's grandchildren and learn all about ther.

George IMO will be a lot  closer to his grandmother Carole since IMO William is a whole lot closer to Kate's family than he ever will be with stepgrandmother Camilla.

Camlla I doubt will try to play grandmother with Diana's children. I hope so anyway. 

[Eri]

I guess if Chuck dies first it's not like Will and Harry will pull a Charles Spencer and Di and get  physical with her but it will be telling if they "ice her out" ... that would certainly make them liars and hypocrites if they change their behavior towards her ...

[sandy]

Hypocrisy lives in that family. Camilla was nice and friendly to Diana as long as she did not complain about the "friendship" she had with Charles. The boys will be polite but I doubt it is one big love fest with Camilla.

[FanDianaFancy]

APB was trained to be  civil and accept  Cam with PC.It  was most benefical to him too.   Just  like it  was an honor  to be mistress #12  as Alcie  Kreppel was and  her  husband and family  gained  good  rank/prizes, LOL,  because of it.  APB  liked Cam being   with PC. Cam did not mind  APB had   his girlfriends , including her late  friend which he married.... Rosemary.

APB and Cam are good friends. 
Always  was. Always  will be. Their  divorce was nothing  close to PC and PD.

This  is  not  my opinion , but FACTS.

How  will  W and H  treat  Cam  if  PC dies first, we  shall  see. Personally, I  think she will be  make  it  to QCamilla  and  bury  KCharles.
THEN,  she  will be  Dowager Q  is it?
Where will she  live?

See  Trudie 's post .



I think, Trudie if  you will, start a new thread  about that. Very interesting.

[Trudie]

^ I think I will Fan

[amabel]

APB was not trained to be civilized .... he was cheating on Camilla long before she cheated on him.  He knew how to play the game because he initiated it.


Cindy

Re Andrew PB, I think that he did act in a civilised manner after the manner of his class in pursuing his affairs, post marriage, keeping them away from home and when Cam took a lover, he kept his distance and ignored it. And he stood by Camilla, although I think he would have preferred a divorce, earlier, because he knew that if they split up, it would leave her exposed as Charles' mistress. He only went for a divorce when the affair was publicly outed and Charles Had admitted that Cam was his lover and there was the implication that if her marriage broke up, he would look after her and marry her. and he and Cam seem to have remained good friends after the divorce. And all in all I think that he and She have handled the situation of being divorced parents and her being remarried quite well.  I am sure that Will and Harry have had their bad times with the idea of her replacing their mother, but it seems to me that they are over that now and get along with her well enough and that she and Charles will be around with little George..adn other children that Willa adn Kate or harry and his wife may have.  And if Ch predeceases Cam, they will remain on friendly terms with her.. I don't know why they should not.

[sandy]

Not everybody in APB's "class" behaved that way and cheated.  Civilised seems to be a polite word for cheating in those that followed the practices of APB and CPB.

[amabel]

In hindsight it would have been better for Diana to have taken her mother's advice to heart and not marry Charles. Frances appeared to have a better understanding of the BRF's expectations in the early 1980's and more likely knew about Charles' feelings for Camilla. Charles should have not pursued someone with very different interests from his own.  :(

I don't believe her mother made any real attempt to dissuade her.. what has been said sounds half hearted, "are you sure you're not marrying him because of who he is"... and as for charles, I believe that he thought that Di shared many of his interests.  She claimed ot like country life, she seemed to enjoy Balmoral, She watched him shooting and IIRC playing polo. If Diana didn't share his interests why did she go out with him?  She must have realised she didn't realy like country life, shooting etc, so why not turn down invites when she must have known that she didn't like the same tings?

[Curryong]

In hindsight it would have been better for Diana to have taken her mother's advice to heart and not marry Charles. Frances appeared to have a better understanding of the BRF's expectations in the early 1980's and more likely knew about Charles' feelings for Camilla. Charles should have not pursued someone with very different interests from his own.  :(

I don't believe her mother made any real attempt to dissuade her.. what has been said sounds half hearted, "are you sure you're not marrying him because of who he is"... and as for charles, I believe that he thought that Di shared many of his interests.  She claimed ot like country life, she seemed to enjoy Balmoral, She watched him shooting and IIRC playing polo. If Diana didn't share his interests why did she go out with him?  She must have realised she didn't realy like country life, shooting etc, so why not turn down invites when she must have known that she didn't like the same tings?

Possibly because Diana, who had never had a serious relationship, was a very young 19 at the time. I believe she was in love with a Disney-style prince, a Barbara Cartland-type older man who would sweep her away to his palace and always love her, always protect her, make the pain of her childhood memories go away. It wasn't the real flesh and blood man she was in love with at all. With her engagement reality started to dawn.

[cinrit]

^^ In other words, she was in love with "who he was"....?

Cindy

[Curryong]

^^ I don't think the young Diana was in love with Charles in a 'gold-digger' type way, Cindy, even though her sister Sarah had tried and failed to win him, and sibling rivalry perhaps played a part. I believe that Diana saw Charles almost as a sanctuary, because a Prince of Wales would never, never divorce, and she would therefore be safe and loved for ever.

[TLLK]

^^^Hadn't thought about it that way. I would have found it surprising for a P and P of Wales divorcing too so this could be taken by her as a sign that she'd always be married.

[cinrit]

^^ I don't think the young Diana was in love with Charles in a 'gold-digger' type way, Cindy,

I don't think so, either, Curryong.  But I think the fact that he was/is the Prince of Wales was quite head-turning.

Cindy

[sandy]

^^ I don't think the young Diana was in love with Charles in a 'gold-digger' type way, Cindy, even though her sister Sarah had tried and failed to win him, and sibling rivalry perhaps played a part. I believe that Diana saw Charles almost as a sanctuary, because a Prince of Wales would never, never divorce, and she would therefore be safe and loved for ever.

Sarah I don't think really wanted to marry Charles. If she really wanted to marry him she would never ever have spoken to the press.  She had come out of a disappointing relationship where a man did not propose to her when she started dating Charles. She said publicly that Charles was like a "big brother" to her a phrase that does not scream romance.

Charles it should be recalled had at least two young women turn him down. He was looking for a suitable wife so he could have the heir and spare. Diana filled the bill since he was looking for an attractive, blue blooded young woman who was fertile and had no past.
Double post auto-merged: September 15, 2014, 12:03:33 AM

In hindsight it would have been better for Diana to have taken her mother's advice to heart and not marry Charles. Frances appeared to have a better understanding of the BRF's expectations in the early 1980's and more likely knew about Charles' feelings for Camilla. Charles should have not pursued someone with very different interests from his own.  :(

I don't believe her mother made any real attempt to dissuade her.. what has been said sounds half hearted, "are you sure you're not marrying him because of who he is"... and as for charles, I believe that he thought that Di shared many of his interests.  She claimed ot like country life, she seemed to enjoy Balmoral, She watched him shooting and IIRC playing polo. If Diana didn't share his interests why did she go out with him?  She must have realised she didn't realy like country life, shooting etc, so why not turn down invites when she must have known that she didn't like the same tings?

Diana's mother had an authorized biography. Frances said that she had misgivings about Charles but never tried to talk to Diana frankly re these misgivings. She said it was "time" for Diana to get married and did not want to get involved.

Diana always watched Charles pay polo throughout the marriage even when they had their marital issues. She never pretended to like to shoot or ride. Everybody in the run up to the engagement knew Diana fell from the horse and did not like riding (this was in all the profiles about her pre wedding). She did watch Charles go fishing and stalking.

Charles did not marry Diana for her possible hunting or riding skills--he saw her as filling the bill as the blue blooded wife who could provide the heir and spare for him.

[amabel]

^^^Hadn't thought about it that way. I would have found it surprising for a P and P of Wales divorcing too so this could be taken by her as a sign that she'd always be married.

Yes it was, but it was she who chose to GET  a divorce.  She did fall in Love with an idealised Charles, and yes it was a factor that he was POW and could not get a divorce, but all the same, She was the one who in spite of knowing that the Princea and Princess of wales were NOT supposed to divorce, wanted out of the marriage.  She said she didn't want to infliect the pain of divorce on her children, but she did do so.  She then got involved with a married man who had kids, and wanted HIm to leave his wife and children for her...
Double post auto-merged: September 15, 2014, 06:09:19 AM

^^ I don't think the young Diana was in love with Charles in a 'gold-digger' type way, Cindy,

I don't think so, either, Curryong.  But I think the fact that he was/is the Prince of Wales was quite head-turning.

Cindy

Yes of course it was. I think it blinded her to the fact that she and C did nto share many interests and that she wasn't really ready for the whole "royal routine" thing...

[sandy]

Diana was told to get a divorce by the Queen, she did not initiate it.

Hoare never confirmed or denied an affair took place. Diana said goodbye to him and he is still with his wife.

Charles inflicted pain on Diana and was not the ideal husband: preferring another woman to her and letting her know, being emotionally abusive to her, and ditching her after she gave birth to his heir and spare. Diana probably would not have wanted out  if Charles met her halfway and dumped Camilla and stopped contacting her. And Diana did say publicly she did not want a divorce.

Charles did more than his share of inflicting pain.

If C and C had "many interests" then Charles should have stayed with her as her lover or forced a divorce of the PBs. Charles is no saint. He married Diana to get the heirs and did not want to risk his place in line of succession and apparently felt Camilla was not "good enough" to have royal children.

The key interest that Diana and Charles did not have in common was the presence of Camilla. She is the elephant in the room that some don't want to see.

[cinrit]

Camilla is not the elephant in the room that some don't want to see.  Everyone agrees that Camilla was the catalyst for the split between Charles and Diana.  But she wasn't the only reason.  And ultimately, if Diana didn't want a divorce (and I tend to believe she probably didn't), what did she think the Panorama interview was going to accomplish?  The Queen let things go, hoping the Wales' could work things out, but when Diana went on international television and criticized her son, who is going to be the next monarch, she had no choice but to call a halt to it the best way she knew how, a divorce.  The Panorama interview was the straw that broke the camel's back; it's what caused the divorce.

Cindy

[sandy]

So how come some keep saying the marriage would have broken up without Camilla around and keep talking about the two not having the same interests. Camilla is absolved. Penny Junor even preached in her Harry book that Camilla had nothing to do with the breakup. She does not want to see the elephant inthe room either.

The marriage was pretty far gone when Charles told his biographer he felt "pressured" to marry Diana.  Diana wanted to give her side of the story. What Charles said to his biographer was a slap in the face to Diana.  Charles went on international television too saying he cheated on his wife. And the next day his secretary said he cheated with Camilla. 

I disagee that the Panorama interview alone caused the divorce. There was Charles blabbing to his biographer and forced the divorce of the PBs. Once Camilla was divorced Charles became pretty much obligated. I don't get why Charles Dimbleby book and interview are just glossed over. Charles did much damage with that interview.

[cate1949]

has anyone read or looked at the Dimbley book or interview lately? I did - the video.  It is not as shocking as the Panoram interview.  The revelations while they may have been shocking at the time - are not as sensational as what the Panorama interview reveals - ie - self harm etc

Charles actually makes efforts in the Dimbley interview to say good things and to accept the blame for the marriages failure.  He certainly doesn't imply Di was a bad mother or an unwilling PoW or any other such thing.

Diana I suspect did the panorama interview in part because her love letters to Hewitt were about to be released so she controlled how that info came out also I think - and her friends verify this - Diana was in that apartment - alone - kids away at school - much less charity work - and she would sit around going over all the wrongs done to her and the people she wanted to get even with - becoming obsessive so those obsessions and all that dwelling drove her to do the interview.  And just as she later regretted doing the Morton book (she said this) I bet she regretted doing the panorama interview.  She repeatedly said she did not want a divorce but the Panorama interview - which all of her advisors and friends were against - did her in.  Diana could be impulsive and then regret later.

[sandy]

I read the Dimbleby book (re read it) and yes, I found it shocking. It was full of self pity and he had nothing good to say about his own parents and Diana. Diana confessed to Morton about the self harm she talked about the "rampant" bulimia to Bashir.

Charles never had anything good to say about Diana in his book, not even saying he was fond with her. And the ultimate insult was that he felt "forced" to marry her and preferred Camilla to Diana. It was not a harmless book since Charles confessions forced the PB divorce and Camilla's father asked Charles what was he going to do about Camilla now. Charles broke with royal tradition of not outing the mistress.

There were wrongs done to Diana. And she did accomplish things, she did not sit in her room she got out and about and actually received honors for her charity work. I think you forget the Anti Landmine Campaign, among other things.

Diana never said publicly she regretted the Morton book.

I think making Diana seem like the "bad person" in this is just wrong on many levels.

Charles did spend much time wallowing in self pity and it shows in the Dimbleby book and interviews. He even whined about how the boys in school were "mean" to him and remembers the time his parents missed his birthday party.

The Dimbleby book did not make Charles look good. It showed a petulant self pitier who blamed others for his own mistakes.

[TLLK]

has anyone read or looked at the Dimbley book or interview lately? I did - the video.  It is not as shocking as the Panoram interview.  The revelations while they may have been shocking at the time - are not as sensational as what the Panorama interview reveals - ie - self harm etc

Charles actually makes efforts in the Dimbley interview to say good things and to accept the blame for the marriages failure.  He certainly doesn't imply Di was a bad mother or an unwilling PoW or any other such thing.

Diana I suspect did the panorama interview in part because her love letters to Hewitt were about to be released so she controlled how that info came out also I think - and her friends verify this - Diana was in that apartment - alone - kids away at school - much less charity work - and she would sit around going over all the wrongs done to her and the people she wanted to get even with - becoming obsessive so those obsessions and all that dwelling drove her to do the interview.  And just as she later regretted doing the Morton book (she said this) I bet she regretted doing the panorama interview.  She repeatedly said she did not want a divorce but the Panorama interview - which all of her advisors and friends were against - did her in.  Diana could be impulsive and then regret later.

What a very sad existence for Diana. I'm sorry that she didn't heed the advice that was given to her regarding the Panorama interview.

[sandy]

I think the "sad existence " is very much exaggerated.

Charles had his friends leak stories about Diana hence Diana striking back with the Morton book. Then Charles had the DImbleby book.