Harry & Megan - Part 2

Started by SophieChloe, March 17, 2017, 06:54:43 PM

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dianab

She's a social climber AND publicity hungry as Camilla, Carole, Kate, Pippa as far as I'm corcerned. I dont put any of those 4 woman on a pedestal. I'm Not going to start with Meghan.

sandy

William seemed to want to marry an aristo and dropped Kate so he could pursue one. She turned him down. I think these women are the ones they are stuck with.

dianab

They all know as play their royal men. Meghan is no better or different. Meghan is as smart as Camilla and Carole.

Lady Deb

All of us deserve to have privacy and have control over our own lives, Harry and Meghan included. I'm sure at some time all of us have gone to a wedding and enjoyed ourselves without having our faces plastered all over the press, just because Harry and Meghan are public figures doesn't mean that they shouldn't be able to enjoy themselves in private.

They attended Pippa's wedding together and  hopefully had fun celebrating. When they choose to share some of their private time together with the general public is up to them. Harry has already stated on official palace letterhead that Meghan is his girlfriend, no secret about that. In the meantime they try to enjoy their privacy and there's nothing at all wrong with that, it's their lives. What is so difficult to understand?

LouisFerdinand

If Meghan were to convert to the Anglican faith, would she be baptized and confirmed in the denomination?


Curryong

Yes, of course. She would be baptised then confirmed in private ceremonies after taking instruction in the Anglican faith.

Kate was baptised in the C-of-E as a baby but not confirmed, so in the run-up to the wedding she brushed up on the tenets of the Anglican faith with a senior clergyman, and was then confirmed.

I remember being confirmed in my early teens after weeks of instruction (and years of Sunday School earlier) and wearing a white silk dress for the ceremony which consisted of rows and rows of little girls being brought up to the Bishop of Lincoln for a blessing in Lincoln Cathedral. Meghan's confirmation, like Kate's, will be much more private than that, however.

tiaras

#381
I'm not sure how adult confirmations work but as a child being confirmed (Catholic) in the church is a pretty big ceremony which parents attend.
It's very similar to this:
Quote
I remember being confirmed in my early teens after weeks of instruction (and years of Sunday School earlier) and wearing a white silk dress for the ceremony which consisted of rows and rows of little girls

Anglican confirmations are different as every Christian denomination has their own traditional rites and rituals that are similar but vary slightly. Btw I think Meghan is lovely but he's not going to marry her. He didn't bring her out publicly like Chelsy or even Cress. Is he ashamed to be seen with her? It makes me wonder if he's not sure himself of the relationship.

Curryong

^ I'm not quite sure whether you took any notice of the early dating years of William and Kate, Tiaras, but there were hardly any photos for years. A skiing holiday, the occasional casual walk, no PDAs.

After the more casual years of PDAs and Chelsy, who was pursued constantly by paps, Harry tried a more conservative approach with Cressida after the Verbier photos of them hugging on the ski slopes. I remember the fandom as it was in those days turning on Cressida, calling her names and at the same time hanging for photos! There aren't that many photos of Harry and Cressida either, at weddings or on dates.

Frustrating as I find it, Harry seems to have turned to his brother's dating approach since the Chelsy days and delights in keeping the Press guessing. I don't think it says anything about his feelings for Meghan but certainly a lot about how he feels about the media poking their nose into his private life. I still think they will marry but we aren't likely to get many glimpsing of them out on dates until the engagement announcement, IMO.

TLLK

#383
QuoteI don't think it says anything about his feelings for Meghan but certainly a lot about how he feels about the media poking their nose into his private life. I still think they will marry but we aren't likely to get many glimpsing of them out on dates until the engagement announcement, IMO.

I wholeheartedly agree @Curryong.  I doubt that Harry was happy about the paparazzi intrusion during the last wedding they attended so the couple found a way to cope with it during Pippa and James' wedding.

Double post auto-merged: May 23, 2017, 02:30:22 PM


Quote from: LouisFerdinand on May 23, 2017, 12:49:10 AM
If Meghan were to convert to the Anglican faith, would she be baptized and confirmed in the denomination?
@Curryong is correct because as I understand it Meghan is was not baptized into any Christian denomination. After taking religious instruction she could receive all of her sacraments in one ceremony.

Yale

Their year anniversary is coming up SOON!! Is it this month, June or July?

LouisFerdinand

If she had previously received the sacrament of Baptism in a different religion, is it necessary that Meghan receive Baptism in the Anglican faith?


Curryong

I'm not an expert on the theological requirements of the Church of England.  :D  However, it is my belief that most denominations of the Christian church do require baptism first before a confirmation ceremony can take place. Sometimes people don't know whether they were baptised and where. They then, after asking older family members, can look up the baptismal registry of the church concerned.

In the case of Meghan I have a strong suspicion that she wasn't baptised as a baby. Her parents had a mixed marriage as Tom Markle was or is Jewish. I don't believe Meghan's mother is Jewish, nor do I ever remember reading what religion if any she had when they married. I believe they married civilly as there's been no documentation that they married in a synagogue.

If Meghan wasn't baptised when she was young it's my understanding she could ask for it to be done at the beginning of her confirmation ceremony, after consultation with the clergy involved. That is, if she wishes to convert to the Church of England.

TLLK

QuoteHowever, it is my belief that most denominations of the Christian church do require baptism first before a confirmation ceremony can take place. Sometimes people don't know whether they were baptised and where. They then, after asking older family members, can look up the baptismal registry of the church concerned.

Yes I agree @Curryong that baptism would be required by any Christian denomination before confirmation. AFAIK most of the foreign royals and commoners who married into the family and were of a different Christian denomination were not required to be re-baptized though. However in Meghan's case this would be a necessary first step.

amabel

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on May 24, 2017, 12:23:54 AM
If she had previously received the sacrament of Baptism in a different religion, is it necessary that Meghan receive Baptism in the Anglican faith?
Baptism is only the rite of entry to one relgion, Christianity

Yale

Quote from: amabel on May 24, 2017, 06:32:47 PM
Quote from: LouisFerdinand on May 24, 2017, 12:23:54 AM
If she had previously received the sacrament of Baptism in a different religion, is it necessary that Meghan receive Baptism in the Anglican faith?
Baptism is only the rite of entry to one relgion, Christianity

Why is any of this important?? Meghan does not need to convert to marry Harry so why discuss it? Besides the topic is boring.

TLLK

I disagree @Yale. I do believe that if Harry and Meghan marry that she will choose to join the CoE and would require the necessary instruction to do so.

Curryong

I agree TLLK. I think it would make things very difficult within the BRF and with the public, considering that Harry is high profile, for Meghan to be of another religion or denomination.

Her agent emailed a questioner in April with a denial that Meghan is Jewish. I don't believe she's Roman Catholic. I think Meghan's religious beliefs are fluid and she probably takes bits and pieces from each and maybe from Buddhism too as her philosophy in life.

Charles is interested in other religions and there wouldn't be any problem with Meghan maintaining an interest in Judaism after her marriage if that's how she feels (she attended a synagogue in LA with her dad as a very young woman.) It would just be very much easier for future children and attending church with the family etc, if she is accepted into the Church of England.

Trudie

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on May 24, 2017, 12:23:54 AM
If she had previously received the sacrament of Baptism in a different religion, is it necessary that Meghan receive Baptism in the Anglican faith?

As a practicing Anglican I was baptized as a baby and my confirmation took place during the regular Sunday service with the Bishop of the NY Diocese officiating at the service my best friends mother who was baptized and confirmed Catholic was received into the church as a member. I hope this helps.



amabel

#393
If she's never been baptised or received any formal religious training I think she will be pressed to consider becoming formally a Christian and a member of the Anglican communion.

Double post auto-merged: May 25, 2017, 05:39:16 PM


Quote from: Curryong on May 22, 2017, 06:42:27 AM
^ No person married into the BRF actually knew/knows what it feels like until they are married and in it. Diana didn't know, Fergie didn't, Sophie didn't and Kate didn't. So they were just as inexperienced, just as ignorant of the life style as Meghan will be. She's probably a quick learner. Actors usually are.

Why people are so negative about this woman and think she won't commit, won't adapt, won't do this, won't do that, is beyond me.
because as you've just pointed out Diana and Fergie were both upper class, of courtier background, and TEHY didnt' know much about the monarchy or adapt well to the lifestyle.. so someone from a very different culture, who is clearly ambitious and a career girl, may well have more difficulties.  or may simply feel that the loss of her freedom is too big a price to pay for being iwht Harry or for the social status of being a Princess.

LouisFerdinand

In Anglican Sacraments in Wikipedia.org, it was stated:   
People baptized in other traditions will be confirmed without being baptized again unless there is doubt about the validity of their original baptism.


Curryong

However, Sarah and Diana had other issues going on which we all now know about which eventually impacted on their lives as members of the BRF. Diana was a roaring success in her public life, it was the relationship with Charles and the deadliness of the formal Royal life as it was lived then at BP, Balmoral and Sandringham that she couldn't stand.

For Fergie, the country life lived in the rural Royal homes fitted her down to the ground, even if she found the several changes of clothing a day a pain. It was as a Royal Duchess carrying out her duties in a dignified and restrained way that she found difficult.

And, as I said, there were other issues going on, abandonment for both by their mothers in childhood, the lack of what they felt was any support from the family or TPTB about their troubles fitting into the lifestyle etc etc.

However, things have changed quite a bit since those days. Sophie was allowed to live with Edward, she was allowed to join in holidays, attended family weddings with him etc. Sophie has a happy marriage and attends her royal duties well IMO. Kate was allowed to live with William at Anglesey before marriage. She's been allowed to slip into Royal duties slowly, too slowly IMO, but that's another matter. She is now doing more. With the exception of being as wooden as hell she has been all right, except for several Marilyn moments.

I think we sometimes look at what Diana and Fergie faced in the early 1980's and think nothing has changed. However, the huge formality of private lives lived by senior royals, with the exception of Queen and consort and Prince Charles, has changed. Camilla doesn't live at her private home as she does at CH and Highgrove. Beatrice and Eugenie apparently do their own housework.

The Queen was reportedly very surprised when she visited Anmer to see how much of the Cambridges' life was played out in the kitchen of their home. Now, you can say that is taking 'normality' too far and you wouldn't get an argument from me. However, as far as the Royal family's private lives are concerned I don't think any American would be disturbed by it. In more formal settings I think Meghan knows which fork to use, and for an actress, changes of clothing would be a doddle. She would make an attempt to join in conversations around the dinner table, I'm sure.

As for Royal engagements, I can't see this woman jumping about at an engagement and saying loudly 'Oh, how CUTE! This is sooo OLD' if she visited an ancient building in the course of her travels around Britain!  Like other members of the family she will be given briefings. She's used to reading and absorbing scripts. She can already make speeches and is used to meeting and greeting. Do you think Kate knows reams of British historical facts and can reel them off, or William or Harry for that matter? And when would they do so? It's enough to have an outline and then fill things in yourself according to your interests, like Sophie with military history.

Asking someone if they are well or about their background is no different basically if you're an actress greeting fans than a Royal on walkabout. Meghan has a lovely, cheerful and easy way about her when chatting to people. I've seen many clips of her with the public and haven't seen her lost for words once.

Of course there is a lot to absorb. There is with anyone who marries into the royal family. However, a lot of mistaken assumptions were made about their being able to cope when Diana and Sarah joined the family. The BRF and TPTB have learned since those days. Meghan will learn all about Britain and British ways during her engagement and she will be eased into Royal duties, as Sophie and Kate were, after marriage, not thrown headlong into it, as D and S were.

sandy

As an actress Meghan got voice and public speaking training. I think her speech is better than WIlliam, Harry and Kate. Actors and actresses study speech and voice. I think Meghan will excel at speaking if she joins the royal family.

TLLK

QuoteMeghan will learn all about Britain and British ways during her engagement and she will be eased into Royal duties, as Sophie and Kate were, after marriage, not thrown headlong into it, as D and S were.
:goodpost: It does appear that the BRF and TPTB have learned their lessons regarding the newly married members into the BRF. Also I like that you pointed out @Curryong that Meghan should be given the opportunity to adapt to a new country as well as a new way of life. Mary, Maxima, Stephanie, Marie etc... were given the necessary time and space to adapt to their adopted nations as well. (Fortunately for Meghan she's had a head start on the language.) :wink:

sandy

Kate did not need all that "easing." She had ten years to date William and she was much lauded for her University Degree. Sophie did not get as coddled. DIana's problem was on the domestic front. Sarah had her own issues. I don't think the royals learned a thing if they thought "work" was the root cause of the issues of Charles and DIana.   Meghan if she marries Harry may be starting a family sooner rather than later because theoretically she would be 36 if she marries Harry. Her perspective if she becomes pregnant after the marriage (right away) will be somewhat different. Kate and William waited two years to have their first baby. Sophie had childbearing issues but eventually had two children.

Curryong

^ Yes, indeed, TLLK. I've always thought, probably wrongly, that the Scandinavian languages must be extremely hard to master, the Romance languages perhaps not so much. Therefore I've always had an extra bit of sympathy for Crown Princess Mary in that direction, (as well as going through the Scandi winters!) I remember ages ago meeting a Danish couple who, though they liked Mary, felt she still had trouble with the Danish accent. However, Denmark and Australia. Could two countries be  more different? Did Mary know very much at all about Denmark and Danes when she arrived there? Doubt it!  And yet Mary has thrived, borne children, carried out Royal duties, and is popular!

Charlene of Monaco seems to struggle with French and consequently with some of her Royal duties. Her husband at least is quite used to English and that's their language of choice in private, I'm sure. Perhaps it shouldn't be. Often just plunging into something because you simply have to is the way to go.

I just think that so many of the difficulties that Meghan faces have been overstated. There are Americans (just as there are in all other nationalities) who aren't interested in other nations' culture and way of life. There are other Americans, and I've met several in my lifetime, who are deeply interested. Specifically, Americans who are Anglophiles (and Meghan would be among them as she's dating an Englishman) are usually eager to learn all they can.

As for giving up certain freedoms, Sarah felt it in particular and often travelled to get away, in spite of the fact that she had been used to being around Royal circles (somewhat) before marriage. Meghan isn't used to Royal circles nor the British way of life. However, neither is she Fergie, and there is no reason to think that she will react in the same way.