Philip's letters to Diana

[LouisFerdinand]

Prince Philip wrote letters to his daughter-in-law Diana. He wrote he wanted Charles and Diana to stay together but living separate lives while continuing their duties.

[Curryong]

Philip was somewhat sympathetic to Diana but a lot of his advice to her just wouldn't work. If she had been a Queen Sylvia type, keep on smiling through your surgically adjusted face while your husband stomps on your self respect, then it probably would have. It may have if Diana had behaved like Philip's own wife and ignored any adultery, always pretending everything was fine. However, Diana wasn't the sort to put up with being humiliated.

Diana and Charles should have both have found a discreet professional marriage counsellor following Harry's birth. As they were both needy, both diametrically opposed characters, it probably wouldn't have improved things much. But if they had seen a professional at least Mrs PB might not have been able to slither in for good. By the time Philip made his attempt to help it was just too late.

[TLLK]

Diana and Charles should have both have found a discreet professional marriage counsellor following Harry's birth. As they were both needy, both diametrically opposed characters, it probably wouldn't have improved things much.

:goodpost:At the very least this might have given the couple the opportunity to determine if they really had a chance of working together to make their marriage work A qualified therapist who would be able to gently share with each what issues they needed to address regarding their relationship and that their tactics of whining, accusing, hiding and threatening would not improve their relationship. Hopefully they would have decided that if they couldn't stay married, that at least to part in a more civilized manner than what was on display during the War of the Wales.

[royalanthropologist]

If someone has been a royal consort for as long as Phillip, you had better listen to his advice when he gives it. There are no perfect marriages. It is just that unlike C&D, couples do not run to the press to complain about their lot. Phillip was doing the right thing and Diana was a fool not to at least consider his thoughts. She ended up turning on him. Advising or counselling Diana was a thankless task. Charles was like that took. I doubt anybody could do it.

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

While I agree with most of that, Phillip did whinge quite a bit back in the day about changing things at BP, going on his hissy fit boat trip, and the worst IMO was the whinging over the last name for the kids. Crikey, you knew what you were getting into when you "groomed" (sorry, but I know it wasnt thought of that then, but now, if it wernt royals it would be described as a creepy older man grooming a young girl for a life of servitude, only difference was the confinement area was a golden palace rather than a trailer park crawl space) Elizabeth to be married to her. Also he brought the press into the RF's life with that movie in 68/69 starting off the whole media/monarchy love affair. In many ways Phillip was more Diana than hed care to admit, especially as time tends to make us gloss over our faults.

Just like Diana, he didnt do his homework, and then kicked up a storm when it didnt go as planned. I do agree that when Diana had her head set on something, the wisest yogi on earth couldnt sway her, and that his years as a consort were a resource worth tapping into.

It seems a shame that Phillip seemed to lose his teeth with Charles once the marriage happened. The man whose mere letter suggesting that he make sure Dianas reputation not be sullied moved Charles, shotgun wedding style down the aisle, seemed either unable or im guessing unwilling to use his sons considerable fear of his parents to make him come around. Also with his playing around, he wouldnt want too much scrutiny, or if Diana was able to bring Charles around, maybe it would give Elizabeth ideas he wouldnt want her to have....

[royalanthropologist]

You make interesting points @Duch_Luver_4ever. The difference with Phillip is that he eventually carved a role for himself that did not cause too much fuss. Even his mother-in-law began tolerating him as part of the institution. The wife was happy to let him rule the roost in family matters but would restrict his access to state issues.

I think deep down QEII and Phillip know that they were not particularly good or effective parents to Charles. That may make them feel guilty about their failings.  Guilty parents sometimes try to over-compensate for past errors by just letting the kids do what they want. Besides Charles had become so distrustful of his parents that he would never tell them any thing about his life. All that he told his grandmother.

I understand the queen was somewhat perturbed that in all moments of crisis in his life, Charles never once went to her for advice or support. Instead he confided his grandmother. It is telling that a report about Poundbury noted that he had erected monuments to two of the most important women in his life: QM and Camilla. I am sure he deeply respects the queen but his mother in the emotional sense was the QM.

His relationship with Phillip was even worse. It is also important to note that someone once said it was Phillip who told Charles that he could give the marriage a try for five years and then go back to Camilla if it didn't work. The reality is that Charles did exactly that so maybe he was following his father's advice literally.

An author has said that the queen and Phillip tried to do marriage counselling but Charles only said "You want everything I say here to be posted in the press tomorrow. No thank you". That ended their part in marital counseling. Another time it is reported that the queen was asking Charles to be a bit patient with Diana and he shouted at her: "Don't you know she's mad, mad". That was apparently the first and only time he has shouted at his mother as an adult up to that point.

Even if they had wanted to do marital counseling, it is unlikely Charles would confide in them. Likewise Diana was horrendous at taking advice or counselling. So they just watched that car crash of a marriage and hoped for the best which never came. Ultimately the queen decided that Diana had to go in order to manage the situation. Her order to divorce was as a queen and not really as a parent. The thing that annoyed her in Panorama was the impertinence to speak of the succession. Everything in that interview she could forgive but that.

[LouisFerdinand]

When did Prince Philip first write to Diana about the marriage?

[TLLK]

^^^ I don't believe that information has been shared by anyone.

[amabel]

You make interesting points @Duch_Luver_4ever. The
I understand the queen was somewhat perturbed that in all moments of crisis in his life, Charles never once went to her for advice or support. Instead he confided his grandmother. It is telling that a report about Poundbury noted that he had erected monuments to two of the most important women in his life: QM and Camilla. I am sure he deeply respects the queen but his mother in the emotional sense was the QM.

His relationship with Phillip was even worse. It is also important to note that someone once said it was Phillip who told Charles that he could give the marriage a try for five years and then go back to Camilla if it didn't work. The reality is that Charles did exactly that so maybe he was following his father's advice literally.

An author has said that the queen and Phillip tried to do marriage counselling but Charles only said "You want everything I say here to be posted in the press tomorrow. No thank you". That ended their part in marital counseling. Another time it is reported that the queen was asking Charles to be a bit patient with Diana and he shouted at her: "Don't you know she's mad, mad". That was apparently the first and only time he has shouted at his mother as an adult up to that point.

Even if they had wanted to do marital counseling, it is unlikely Charles would confide in them. Likewise Diana

oh this is all nonsense. THis was one of Diana's "blame Charles" things that she put out, that Philip had told C that he could tyr his marriage for 5 years and then return ot a bachelor life.
.  and I've never heard that the queen was bothered that Charles did not turn to her for advice. I think that back years ago, she would have hated to be asked for advice because she did "ostrich" and try to avoid conflict and problems. She only intervened very late in the day when their scandalous war in the papers was  causing so much trouble that she had to do  or say something...
It was far too late to "do marriage counselling" and if Charles did say thse things about the idea, IMO he was right.  Diana by then would have leaked what was said and done to the Press (I think she was more discreet in her early years) and she was IMO then very messed up and not at all thinking logically and there was little use hten in trying to preach calm and sensible behaviour to her....

[TLLK]

While I agree with most of that, Phillip did whinge quite a bit back in the day about changing things at BP, going on his hissy fit boat trip, and the worst IMO was the whinging over the last name for the kids.

Actually it was highly unusual that the children were not automatically Mountbattens IMHO. As in most European countries, children take the name of their father and  most recent British Prince Consort which was Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha had his name given to his children and to the royal house. Windsor as the name of the royal house didn't happen until WWI when it was deemed best not to have such a Germanic sounding name for the British royal family. Knowing what had happened with his great-grandparents, Phillip would have expected that his family name of Mountbatten would have been passed on to his descendants. It was TPTB that prevented this from happening at the beginning of their marriage and after Charles' birth.

[amabel]

very True TLLK.  I think that Philip did have a point, but it was also understandable that since the queen was the Queen, it was considered preferable to keep the Royal House as Windsor.  (and of course Mountbatten's ambitions - I don't think it was desirable to encourage them...).  But Philip had a point.  I think it is a tribute to his great strength of character that he found himself a role, worked hard as the queens' support, modernised the Royal Household... If he wasn't the best father in the world, he was well meaning and hes been the queen's "rock and support" for 70 years.

[TLLK]

(and of course Mountbatten's ambitions - I don't think it was desirable to encourage them..

Yes this seems to be an attempt to keep Dickie Mountbatten "in his place," rather than a reflection upon Phillip. Though I do understand that there was a need to keep the situation in the nation as steady and stable as possible in the early post-war years, it does seem very unfair that this was determined after the marriage and not before.

@Duch_Luver_4ever -Here is a little more information on the Mountbatten name controversy.
From Wikipedia

In 1952, on the accession of his wife as Queen Elizabeth II, there was some dispute regarding the dynasty to which descendants of Elizabeth and Phillip would belong. Queen Mary (the new Queen's grandmother) expressed to Prime Minister Winston Churchill her aversion to the idea of the House of Mountbatten succeeding the House of Windsor as the royal dynasty.[4] Winston Churchill raised the matter in Parliament where it was decided that the name of the Royal House would remain Windsor, as decreed in perpetuity by Queen Mary's husband, King George V.[citation needed]

[sandy]

oh this is all nonsense. THis was one of Diana's "blame Charles" things that she put out, that Philip had told C that he could tyr his marriage for 5 years and then return ot a bachelor life.
.  and I've never heard that the queen was bothered that Charles did not turn to her for advice. I think that back years ago, she would have hated to be asked for advice because she did "ostrich" and try to avoid conflict and problems. She only intervened very late in the day when their scandalous war in the papers was  causing so much trouble that she had to do  or say something...
It was far too late to "do marriage counselling" and if Charles did say thse things about the idea, IMO he was right.  Diana by then would have leaked what was said and done to the Press (I think she was more discreet in her early years) and she was IMO then very messed up and not at all thinking logically and there was little use hten in trying to preach calm and sensible behaviour to her....

Diana did not "put it out" about the 5 year plan. Oddly enough, Ingrid Seward said Camilla taunted Diana and informed her about the five year plan. And Seward is a Charles person. This seemed to come from sources other than Diana.

The time to do the counseling was before they got engaged and Charles should have put all his cards on the table and told Diana what he expected of her. And everything and all he expected.
Double post auto-merged: November 02, 2017, 06:09:27 PM

If someone has been a royal consort for as long as Phillip, you had better listen to his advice when he gives it. There are no perfect marriages. It is just that unlike C&D, couples do not run to the press to complain about their lot. Phillip was doing the right thing and Diana was a fool not to at least consider his thoughts. She ended up turning on him. Advising or counselling Diana was a thankless task. Charles was like that took. I doubt anybody could do it.

Philip called Charles "precious." He was not happy with Charles blabbing to Dimbleby about his "abusive" upbringing.

So how come Charles is not castigated for ignoring his father? He twisted his father's words. His father said to let Diana go if he did not love her and did not want to marry her. Wise advice.
Double post auto-merged: November 02, 2017, 06:12:17 PM

You make interesting points @Duch_Luver_4ever. The difference with Phillip is that he eventually carved a role for himself that did not cause too much fuss. Even his mother-in-law began tolerating him as part of the institution. The wife was happy to let him rule the roost in family matters but would restrict his access to state issues.

I think deep down QEII and Phillip know that they were not particularly good or effective parents to Charles. That may make them feel guilty about their failings.  Guilty parents sometimes try to over-compensate for past errors by just letting the kids do what they want. Besides Charles had become so distrustful of his parents that he would never tell them any thing about his life. All that he told his grandmother.

I understand the queen was somewhat perturbed that in all moments of crisis in his life, Charles never once went to her for advice or support. Instead he confided his grandmother. It is telling that a report about Poundbury noted that he had erected monuments to two of the most important women in his life: QM and Camilla. I am sure he deeply respects the queen but his mother in the emotional sense was the QM.

His relationship with Phillip was even worse. It is also important to note that someone once said it was Phillip who told Charles that he could give the marriage a try for five years and then go back to Camilla if it didn't work. The reality is that Charles did exactly that so maybe he was following his father's advice literally.

An author has said that the queen and Phillip tried to do marriage counselling but Charles only said "You want everything I say here to be posted in the press tomorrow. No thank you". That ended their part in marital counseling. Another time it is reported that the queen was asking Charles to be a bit patient with Diana and he shouted at her: "Don't you know she's mad, mad". That was apparently the first and only time he has shouted at his mother as an adult up to that point.

Even if they had wanted to do marital counseling, it is unlikely Charles would confide in them. Likewise Diana was horrendous at taking advice or counselling. So they just watched that car crash of a marriage and hoped for the best which never came. Ultimately the queen decided that Diana had to go in order to manage the situation. Her order to divorce was as a queen and not really as a parent. The thing that annoyed her in Panorama was the impertinence to speak of the succession. Everything in that interview she could forgive but that.

His grandmother was not a good influence either, she made him think himself "special" and the Center of the Universe. That eroded his ability to relate to people IMO and it encourage his sense of self entitlement and was upset he was not the Center of the Universe on appearances with his first wife.

Diana did get effective counseling from Lipsedge. Charles brought quacks in to talk to her.

Charles' failures are primarily of his own making.

[amabel]

I do understand that there was a need to keep the situation in the nation as steady and stable as possible in the early post-war years, it does seem very unfair that this was determined after the marriage and not before.

@Duch_Luver_4ever -Here is a little more information on the Mountbatten name controversy.
From Wikipedia

Oh I think it was very wise to keep Mountbatten in his place.  But I have a great admiration for Philip.  he's a real old trouper, and I think that he HAS indeed beene the queen's rock and support for all their marriage and She does depend on him.  But if she were to say that to him, he'd problaby say "don't talk rubbish" because he'd be embarrassed.
So I think that the compromise that was achieved was probably for the best, that the chidlrne who needed to use a surname would be Mountbatten Windsor and the "House name" would remain windsor

[sandy]

You make interesting points @Duch_Luver_4ever. The difference with Phillip is that he eventually carved a role for himself that did not cause too much fuss. Even his mother-in-law began tolerating him as part of the institution. The wife was happy to let him rule the roost in family matters but would restrict his access to state issues.

I think deep down QEII and Phillip know that they were not particularly good or effective parents to Charles. That may make them feel guilty about their failings.  Guilty parents sometimes try to over-compensate for past errors by just letting the kids do what they want. Besides Charles had become so distrustful of his parents that he would never tell them any thing about his life. All that he told his grandmother.

I understand the queen was somewhat perturbed that in all moments of crisis in his life, Charles never once went to her for advice or support. Instead he confided his grandmother. It is telling that a report about Poundbury noted that he had erected monuments to two of the most important women in his life: QM and Camilla. I am sure he deeply respects the queen but his mother in the emotional sense was the QM.

His relationship with Phillip was even worse. It is also important to note that someone once said it was Phillip who told Charles that he could give the marriage a try for five years and then go back to Camilla if it didn't work. The reality is that Charles did exactly that so maybe he was following his father's advice literally.

An author has said that the queen and Phillip tried to do marriage counselling but Charles only said "You want everything I say here to be posted in the press tomorrow. No thank you". That ended their part in marital counseling. Another time it is reported that the queen was asking Charles to be a bit patient with Diana and he shouted at her: "Don't you know she's mad, mad". That was apparently the first and only time he has shouted at his mother as an adult up to that point.

Even if they had wanted to do marital counseling, it is unlikely Charles would confide in them. Likewise Diana was horrendous at taking advice or counselling. So they just watched that car crash of a marriage and hoped for the best which never came. Ultimately the queen decided that Diana had to go in order to manage the situation. Her order to divorce was as a queen and not really as a parent. The thing that annoyed her in Panorama was the impertinence to speak of the succession. Everything in that interview she could forgive but that.

Charles shouting like a banshee about his wife being mad makes him look weird himself.  What a nasty thing to say. It shows the source of the "mad" Diana spin. Shame on him.

Charles trashed his parents over a year before Panorama, something that is always ignored.

Charles needed counseling. Big Time.

[TLLK]

^^^I believe that it is fair to say that both Charles and Diana had personalities that were more similar than dissimilar IMHO. Knowing this about his son and daughter-in-law likely made this a challenging task for Phillip and Elizabeth as they knew that neither would be receptive to advice from others.   Both Charles and Diana are/were capable of kindness, generosity, persistence and loyalty, but at the same time coupled with low self-esteem, a near constant need for approval and a tendency to whine. There was also episodes in which both would treat those around them very badly and on occasion act violently towards others.  Charles found a few people in his life who were able to boost his moods but who also indulged his behavior until it bordered upon petulance. Diana was able to find this support from a few as well, but others tended to leave if her behavior became too clingy, erratic and needy. It's a shame that she wasn't able to find a romantic partner who was able to provide what she needed. It's also a shame that so many people ended up being hurt by the adultery that was being engaged in by so many.:Charles, Camilla, APB, Diana, Oliver Horare etc..:no:

[amabel]

I think they're very different as personalities..  which is why they didn't understand each other.
And I've never heard of them acting violently towards anyone. ?  The only thing I can think  of is that Diana allegedly hit Charles iwht a bible when he was saying his prayers.. and i'd tend to be dubious about whether that's true or not.
yes they did treat other people badly, at times but most people do that, for varous reasons (unless we're saints).   It IS true that Charles and DI problaby did get away with more selfish behavior at times because of their positions, but I think that's inevitable when people are rich and privileged.

[sandy]

Smith told that little gem. Probably another tall tale from one of Charles' pals. I did not see the Bible part just the claim that Charles was "attacked." The Housekeeper said that Charles pulled a sink out in Highgrove in a fit of rage. That story was quoted in various books talking about Charles and his gnashes.

Charles had a philosophical idea of marriage which was not realistic in practical terms. Too much consultation with Van Der Post IMO.

[amabel]

I don't know who Smith is, but I can't see how Charles pulling out a sink in his rage is being violent towards anyone...

[sandy]

Bedell Smith. The Housekeeper witnessed it. Junor and Seward and others used it in their books.

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

^^^I believe that it is fair to say that both Charles and Diana had personalities that were more similar than dissimilar IMHO. Knowing this about his son and daughter-in-law likely made this a challenging task for Phillip and Elizabeth as they knew that neither would be receptive to advice from others.   Both Charles and Diana are/were capable of kindness, generosity, persistence and loyalty, but at the same time coupled with low self-esteem, a near constant need for approval and a tendency to whine. There was also episodes in which both would treat those around them very badly and on occasion act violently towards others.  Charles found a few people in his life who were able to boost his moods but who also indulged his behavior until it bordered upon petulance. Diana was able to find this support from a few as well, but others tended to leave if her behavior became too clingy, erratic and needy. It's a shame that she wasn't able to find a romantic partner who was able to provide what she needed. It's also a shame that so many people ended up being hurt by the adultery that was being engaged in by so many.:Charles, Camilla, APB, Diana, Oliver Horare etc..:no:

:goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost: Excellent Insight @TLLK  as always, like two north poles of a magnet, they ended up repelling each other. :no: I also wish shed have found a partner who could give her the comfort that Charles was able to find outside the marriage.

[michelle0187]

I need to see the receipts for those letters. It's gossip and guesses  to me until then.

[sandy]

Diana apparently told Burrell about the letters and he got access to them after she died and used a few of them in his first book about Diana. I think there were more letters. Maybe the Spencers got them away from Burrell.

[TLLK]

@amabel- We know that Diana was capable of violence towards other people because she shared that information herself. I do find that Charles pulling the sink out of the wall to be violent but at least no one was injured unlike Raine.

[sandy]

Once again, Raine and Diana became friends.  Charles had a temper. DIana did not "injure" Raine and she did not go to the hospital.   Charles threw things in Diana's direction according to the housekeeper. He also called Diana names like having a "simple mind."  I would be frightened of a man who pulled out a sink in a fit of temper. I'd leave the premises. Fast.