Princess Diana curtseyed

[royalanthropologist]

I agree. Diana pushed until she got the wrong answer. She was not compromising and many people admired her for it but ultimately I think she was better off in the family. Getting out of the BRF started a downward spiral that ended in tragedy. I cannot ever imagine she would have been in Paris had she played the Sophia route of pragmatism.

Some of her decisions were puzzling to me at least. She was having affairs with not a hoot from the BRF then she decided to go for the wronged woman routine. Even then, they left her to her own devices but then she decided to take it up a notch with Panorama. Then when the final divorce came, she was quite sad about it. What did she honestly expect...that they would just let it pass again and welcome her back in the fold or that she could continue damaging them without a response? The whole thing was based on emotions, not strategy.

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

Wow, you guys were busy while i was at work and slept LOL. Lets see if I can catch up. I do respect your opinion on it @TLLK but I also think that was part of the very reason he was attractive to her, in the same way Oliver Hoare was.

One could even argue theres a bit of that in the selection, if not necessarily the attraction to James Hewitt (both different imo) in that it was borne out of learning to ride, and all thats involved with that with Charles and the country life, and its use as a means to hook up with Camilla, etc. she might have delighted in the irony of that, even hewitt mentioned that Charles mentioned in hed have her hunting shortly.

As for some of the more histrionic comments, im not suggesting shes a nymphomaniac who'll chase anything, nor that she was looking for a great romance, and I think theres some projection of this persons opinion of JC vs the reality that Diana was attracted to older men in a father type role, being prominent was even better. On that score JC was exactly what shed be looking for to be reassured of her desirability in the wake of Charles going back to Camilla, and to also fight back at her husband with her choice of suitor.

I must say im must be onto something if I can get amabel and sandy to be on the same side of an argument LOL. As usual, I disagree with you, amabel, how does it make me any less of a Diana fan to suggest such a thing, compared to the things we know about(panorama, the morton book, hewitt, phone calls, the other topless photos in spain in 95, etc.),how much worse really is it? I find your defense of Diana disingenuous at best and quarrelsome at worst.

I just dont view her with blinders on, or in a dogmatic fashion like so many of you. She was a young, beautiful, desirable woman who deserved to be loved, and/or experience physical attention. While I do think shed have had a much stronger hand if she hadnt had affairs, once Charles made it clear Camilla was going to rule his heart, the case for her to be faithful flew out the window.

As for the while learning to love and trying to understand each other, the onus was on charles from a practical perspective, being the older, more mature person at the time of the marriage coupled with his knowledge of the royal system compared to Diana's, if one had to sort of bend to reach the other person. Also, and harder to pinpoint and I think the source of the hostility towards him, is that from an emotional, touchy/feely perspective he also should have as well given how she made not just men but everyone else feel(see the doc the boys did about their mum).

As for the whole standing by your man thing, Sofia vs Hillary, Ill have to concede to ppls Sofias knowledge as mine isnt strong, but my Hillary knowledge is very strong, and id wager that Sofia didnt have the raw, naked ambition for power and would be willing to do just about anything to gain and hold it like Hillary did. she stayed with Bill as he was the "connecter" he was the people person that had the charisma, she needed him to appear human, and he needed her strength and tenacity to keep away the mistakes Bill made. Check out "Clinton body count" or a recent movie "American Made" of one of his more famous bodies, Barry Seale.

I dont want to rehash 2016 and send the thread off in a tangent, but look up the case where she defended rapists and Juanita Broderick, what happened to Monica was chump change compared. 

You guys are typing faster than I can get this out, I also agree with the "Half a loaf" as i've said before about the lack of ppl that should have educated her about that possibility. Its one thing if she still wanted to hold out for the whole loaf, but my issue was that no one told her that life could be anything less than a whole loaf of fairytale goodness and set her up for disaster.

[sandy]

I would like to call the attention to the "histrionics" of some of the commentators  in the Daily Mail.  Diana is trashed like she sleeps with everybody in pants and check out the DM comments. Yes, she is accused of nymphomania. Some make really crude comments which I will not repeat here.

Yes, Diana had extramarital affairs. She sought comfort elsewhere beginning with Hewitt. But what I don't get is that a man flirting with Diana would have instantly made her leap into bed. Diana was a beautiful woman she had self esteem issues because of put downs by Charles and because he preferred another woman. When she got involved with Hewitt he made her feel desirable and during the relationship her friends said he was "good for him." I think it would be rather depressing to her self esteem to respond to a man who was a notorious womanizer. No future in the relationship at all and certainly Juan Carlos was not madly in love with her, she was just a "body" to him. She wanted more than that. She wanted a family and someone who loved her.

I agree 100 percent with you about Hillary.
Double post auto-merged: September 28, 2017, 10:10:32 PM

I agree. Diana pushed until she got the wrong answer. She was not compromising and many people admired her for it but ultimately I think she was better off in the family. Getting out of the BRF started a downward spiral that ended in tragedy. I cannot ever imagine she would have been in Paris had she played the Sophia route of pragmatism.

Some of her decisions were puzzling to me at least. She was having affairs with not a hoot from the BRF then she decided to go for the wronged woman routine. Even then, they left her to her own devices but then she decided to take it up a notch with Panorama. Then when the final divorce came, she was quite sad about it. What did she honestly expect...that they would just let it pass again and welcome her back in the fold or that she could continue damaging them without a response? The whole thing was based on emotions, not strategy.

Diana's leaving the royal family did not lead to tragedy. She was in an accident and got killed. Unfortunately the "rules" in France kept her from getting to a hospital in time.  JFK Jr, James Dean and others died in tragic accidents at a too young age. Diana's divorce did not lead to her accident.

Diana was looking forward to the future. Her friends said so. Of course a divorce is traumatic. To anybody. But she got busy with regrouping, she was dating Hasnet Khan and did so much in her last year of life.

Diana was not tossed out of the family she would always be involved in events involving the sons she had with Prince Charles.

Think about it. IF Diana had taken the Sofia route, she could never have left the sham marriage, she could have had affairs maybe a long term one. Suppose she fell in love with the man and wanted to marry and have a family with him. She was still young. I think she could have gotten depressed and felt hopeless if she were stuck in a marriage where the man increasingly showed contempt and he may even have housed Camilla in the same residence as Diana.  Juan Carlos had no Camila in his life. He had many mistresses.

[TLLK]

Wow, you guys were busy while i was at work and slept LOL. Lets see if I can catch up. I do respect your opinion on it @TLLK but I also think that was part of the very reason he was attractive to her, in the same way Oliver Hoare was.

No worries @Duch_Luver_4ever as it would be a dull place if we all agreed.

I agree that Sofia was not ambitious for herself in the same way that most politicians are, but I honestly believe that to Sofia/JC the return of the monarchy helped to move Spain away from Fascism and towards democracy. She'd witnessed the rise/fall of the monarchy in Greece and the return of the one in Spain.  As mother to the heir, she was tasked with helping to raise Felipe to be a modern monarch who would ultimately do his best in his future role as head of state. IMO JC and Sofia should be satisfied that they achieved that goal in their lifetime.

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

Well, I didnt say that no one at all ever thought that about her, I would hope by now you would recognize the difference between here and the DM, and that when you respond to us here like that, it causes the conflict that happens here from time to time. If you would moderate your responses to the intended audience it would make everyones life here a lot easier. :flower:

You were responding to me/my posts in a way that implied that I thought that Diana was that way, and you should know by now thats not true. Despite our disagreements about number of stairs, etc. and other things in her life, I would hope you would understand  my feelings about Diana and wanting the best for her, even though I can look at what happened and what she did with an objective eye.

Think back to for example the 86 holiday in spain, Diana is feeling not very attractive due to the bulimia and charles going back to Camilla (remember she knew that 5 years after the marriage that he went back like PP's advice). Hes seperated from her on the holiday except for photo ops, Hewitt may or may not have happened physically then, but shes at least entertaining the idea of sleeping with another man.

Then heres this charismatic man whos has power, prestige, etc. and shes in an atmoshpere where he is the top dog. Who knows what hes saying to her, but its not a stretch and certainly not a lie if he said how beautiful she was. Those old Cartland books rattling in her head....

Obviously im not a woman, but even I can see where she would find that appealing. It doesnt make her a bad person if she wanted a fling. god knows she gave up her late teens early twenties, I think given C&C, she was entitled to one or two.


As for the divorce, the accident, life after Charles, etc. Unless she got Hillary to invest in the futures market for her(look up that scandal/Diana was bang on with her assessment of Hilary/glad theres something we agree on  :friends:) she wasnt going to have the money to keep the press away, be secure, etc. and thus free to marry just anyone.

Hasnat was a pipe dream, especially given his immature and petulant behaviour for again, a supposed older mature man :thumbsdown: . She needed to marry a Teddy or forget Dodi, she needed Mohammad Al Fayed/Gulu Luvani/ etc. to keep her in the lifestyle she would need to keep all the nutters & press away.

Its unfortunate, but practically she was better off staying married and having royal protection, and lifestyle, while finding her own version of Camilla. Also she was 36 by the divorce, and past her peak of child bearing, yes her health and medicine could have allowed to likely have a child for another 10 years but with risks she knew well from her friend Rosa Monkton, so the second family was likely a dream unless it was going to be step children.

We dont like to think that our choices have lasting effects, but sadly, her walk down the St. Pauls had sealed her fate in terms of unlimited choice being taken off the table, and once the WoW heated up, her choices got very few and far between. Ill say it again, if someone had stepped in and did their duty to her while she was growing up, a lot of this wouldnt have happened, or shed have gone in with open eyes, and proper expectations, and wouldnt have upset the apple cart.

Hi @TLLK saw your post as im making this, I do agree with you on the whole move of Spain away from fascism, as most of my Spanish knowledge is from the civil war period (although im a pro Catalonia separatist). Despite JC's faults she should be pleased she was part of Spain getting rid of fascism. I think shes a great example of female power in the sense that (im assuming) she took the long game of making sure he son was well placed to have the throne, and saw a bigger prize than just having her husbands loyalty, that whole hand that rocks the cradle thing.

While the Spanish and English situation were very different, it would have been interesting given Dianas thoughts on Williams role, if she and Sofia ever talked about that.

[dianab]

Also she was 36 by the divorce, and past her peak of child bearing, yes her health and medicine could have allowed to likely have a child for another 10 years but with risks she knew well from her friend Rosa Monkton, so the second family was likely a dream unless it was going to be step children.

Disagree. Many women after-35 can have healthy children. And it's not just a benefit of the famous/rich women.

[sandy]

And of course  Diana would not have been a first time mother if she had another baby with the hypothetical second husband. She already had two children. She could have had children at 40 and over. She might have had just one or two more children with the second husband.

[dianab]

Caroline of Monaco had her youngest child aged 42. It happened in 1999. IIRC Queen Sylvia had her youngest child Madeleine after 35 - it was in early 1980s!

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

Im not saying it was guaranteed she have a hideously disabled baby, just that the odds were much higher, look up the stats on it, spare me the one off examples. Also by the time she found, was sure, married, got pregnant and delivered a baby would have been at least 38, likely over 40.

There were few men with the means, that were available, and would be a good romantic match and then to top it off a good father, it was a tall order to fill.

There were many more men who could have given her emotional and physical support, but without having the burden of keeping her safe and secure and in the lifestyle she was accustomed to.

[TLLK]

@Duch_Luver_4ever- 36 wouldn't be considered too old for Diana who was already the mother of two, but yes the risk of certain genetic disorders does increase over 35. And  yes  there are more mothers having children at a later age, but I wouldn't be surprised if some especially the over 40's are having help via IVF, donor eggs etc... There are more options available for couples who are experiencing difficulty with fertility now than there were 20 years ago.

Yes it would have been interesting to see what might have occurred between the Wales and their children had Diana chosen an option like Sofia.

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

Exactly, thats all i was saying, and given the resources she had, she would have access to top notch care, but for someone looking to and perhaps a bit over eager to start her new life after 16 years with "the germans" it would be a big strain on whatever new serious relationship she might have had, vs when she was 20 and had "all the time in the world" so to speak.

Imagine if a relationship lasted a couple years and didnt end in marriage and kids, it would be a much bigger thing to recoup from then vs 20 or even 30, thats what im talking about. Aslo to consider like you said, had she taken the Sophia route, it might have been feasible that theyd have had more kids, as the level of conflict would have been far less, and all that really would have been needed from Charles would have been the "donation" LOL.

[amabel]

I
Some of her decisions were puzzling to me at least. She was having affairs with not a hoot from the BRF then she decided to go for the wronged woman routine. Even then, they left her to her own devices but then she decided to take it up a notch with Panorama. Then when the final divorce came, she was quite sad about it. What did she honestly expect...that they would just let it pass again and welcome her back in the fold or that she could continue damaging them without a response? The whole thing was based on emotions, not strategy.

They opted for the usual response which was to avoid getting pulled into a war with her, and to try and treat her with "total ignoral".. and hope the public would get fed up with her and hse would lose her platform for complaining.  But she went a step too far,with Panorama and the queen decided that the damage doen by a divorce would be less than te damage done by the war of the waleses going on.  And they cut her loose..
They didn't approve of her affairs but they were willing to tolerate them, provided she was discreet and put up a fornt of pleasant behaviour in public with Charles and in private at family gatherings.  that's how you're supposed to play it as a royal if you have a bad marraiage.   Diana didn't know what she wanted, whether she wanted to get free of the RF nad be a "normal person" again and be free to remarry or get away from them or to stay in the RF and hope that she could find a role as "Queen Mother" to William.  however, Its unlikely, even had Charles given up his position, that Diana would have favoured as an adviser to her son, among the family.  THey were aware of her volatile side and I think as time passed the public became aware of it and were less sympathetic.  And in any case her time of being "queen mother" was likely to be very far in the future. So Diana floundered around, didn't know what she wanted and eneded up divorced, treated as an outsider and left to find her life outside the RF...

[sandy]

Charles took a step too far with his Dimbleby interview and book. Trashing his parents, forcing the PB divorce by his blabbing about his cheating, and he should have just limited the interview to his work as Prince of Wales, as the interview was supposed to be. He blamed DImbleby and courtiers for his making the confessions which showed a lot about his character or lack of it. Diana responded to it. And if the Queen had not intervened I think there would have been another riposte from Charles (although there have been many responses from his circle even after Diana died).

William would make the call about his mother when he became King. Why wouldn't he be able to get advice from his mother had she lived?

The other issue is Charles having more and more contempt for his wife.

Charles has a volatile side and a temper. He was not superman and he floundered about himself.  I would not speak for the 'public'. Many did and do not like Charles and his own actions.

Diana knew she did not want to be in a marriage where the husband had contempt for her, the mistress was calling the shots and there was no real future. Having affairs would not solve anything, she wanted a real marriage and family not affairs where there could not possibly be any sort of future.

She was not an outsider. She died one year after the divorce. Too soon to doom her to misery. She was carving a role for herself. What "floundering"? She did more in her last year than many do in ten years. Selling her gowns for charity and the anti Landmine Campaign and planning her future. Her friends did not say she was "floundering."  She would always have been an insider having things to say about her sons' upbringing along with Charles, and appearing at events involving their sons.

If they did not "approve" of her affairs then they should not approve of Charles. The QUeen heard complaints about C and C before Diana came along and did nothing about it.

Charles did not behave "pleasantly" in front of his wife. Why not blame him for it?  Why is Diana the one blamed for everything?

[LouisFerdinand]

Princess Diana's first curtsey to Queen Elizabeth II as The Princess of Wales   
Princess Diana's First Curtsy To Queen Elizabeth II As The Princess... News Photo | Getty Images

[Trudie]

Well, I didnt say that no one at all ever thought that about her, I would hope by now you would recognize the difference between here and the DM, and that when you respond to us here like that, it causes the conflict that happens here from time to time. If you would moderate your responses to the intended audience it would make everyones life here a lot easier. :flower:

You were responding to me/my posts in a way that implied that I thought that Diana was that way, and you should know by now that's not true. Despite our disagreements about number of stairs, etc. and other things in her life, I would hope you would understand  my feelings about Diana and wanting the best for her, even though I can look at what happened and what she did with an objective eye.

Think back to for example the 86 holiday in Spain, Diana is feeling not very attractive due to the bulimia and Charles going back to Camilla (remember she knew that 5 years after the marriage that he went back like PP's advice). Hes seperated from her on the holiday except for photo ops, Hewitt may or may not have happened physically then, but shes at least entertaining the idea of sleeping with another man.

Then heres this charismatic man whos has power, prestige, etc. and shes in an atmoshpere where he is the top dog. Who knows what hes saying to her, but its not a stretch and certainly not a lie if he said how beautiful she was. Those old Cartland books rattling in her head....

Obviously im not a woman, but even I can see where she would find that appealing. It doesnt make her a bad person if she wanted a fling. god knows she gave up her late teens early twenties, I think given C&C, she was entitled to one or two.


As for the divorce, the accident, life after Charles, etc. Unless she got Hillary to invest in the futures market for her(look up that scandal/Diana was bang on with her assessment of Hilary/glad theres something we agree on  :friends:) she wasnt going to have the money to keep the press away, be secure, etc. and thus free to marry just anyone.

Hasnat was a pipe dream, especially given his immature and petulant behaviour for again, a supposed older mature man :thumbsdown: . She needed to marry a Teddy or forget Dodi, she needed Mohammad Al Fayed/Gulu Luvani/ etc. to keep her in the lifestyle she would need to keep all the nutters & press away.

Its unfortunate, but practically she was better off staying married and having royal protection, and lifestyle, while finding her own version of Camilla. Also she was 36 by the divorce, and past her peak of child bearing, yes her health and medicine could have allowed to likely have a child for another 10 years but with risks she knew well from her friend Rosa Monkton, so the second family was likely a dream unless it was going to be step children.

We dont like to think that our choices have lasting effects, but sadly, her walk down the St. Pauls had sealed her fate in terms of unlimited choice being taken off the table, and once the WoW heated up, her choices got very few and far between. Ill say it again, if someone had stepped in and did their duty to her while she was growing up, a lot of this wouldnt have happened, or shed have gone in with open eyes, and proper expectations, and wouldnt have upset the apple cart.

Hi @TLLK saw your post as im making this, I do agree with you on the whole move of Spain away from fascism, as most of my Spanish knowledge is from the civil war period (although im a pro Catalonia separatist). Despite JC's faults she should be pleased she was part of Spain getting rid of fascism. I think shes a great example of female power in the sense that (im assuming) she took the long game of making sure he son was well placed to have the throne, and saw a bigger prize than just having her husbands loyalty, that whole hand that rocks the cradle thing.

While the Spanish and English situation were very different, it would have been interesting given Dianas thoughts on Williams role, if she and Sofia ever talked about that.

Perhaps you should go read about this trip in Ken Wharfes book. That holiday was just that a holiday and no she didn't have an affair with JC if she had Wharfe would have been sure to put that in his book and he wasn't shy in alleging Diana slept with Hoare because he spent a night at KP and could have stayed there as just a guest after all he was a close friend of Charles and had offered up his services as a marriage counselor. I don't think Diana was a saint but I don't allege or hint that she had an affair with JC in fact in the 90's it was alleged that Diana had designs on Prince Felipe not his father.

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

I remember his take of the trip, and yes she was candid with him about Oliver, but she also had little choice, with Ken responding to the smoke alarm with him outside her room with just a towel on smoking a cigar.

[royalanthropologist]

I have to say I have a completely take on this one. The moment Diana was abandoned by her husband, she had every right to find love wherever she could find it. I find it so depressing that in this day and age, women who like sex are somehow ostracized as being S***s.  Diana was effectively a free agent and could do as she pleased. It is nobody's business, including the queen.

My only problem with her was going for married men after the stink she had raised about C&C. Other that all her unmarried lovers were fine by me. She was having fun and making up for lost time. Charles would only bring himself to the plate once every three weeks so it was not as if she was saturated with romance in her own marriage. The woman had a right to live as she wanted.

[sandy]

Diana did not cheat on Charles until he cut her loose and made it clear that he preferred Camilla and left her bed (after he got his heirs). She was not running around on him while he was not having the affair with Camilla.  Hoare thankfully never spoke of the nature of the relationship with Diana and probably never will. He is still with his wife so no marriage was broken up.

Carling denied an affair took place.

Diana was in effect leading a separate life from Charles after he ditched her for Camilla. And he never really was out of touch with Camilla the entire time he was married to Diana.

Charles even encouraged Diana to invite a guest to a party both were attending, he obviously knew about Hewitt and did not raise a fuss when she invited him.

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

I have to say I have a completely take on this one. The moment Diana was abandoned by her husband, she had every right to find love wherever she could find it. I find it so depressing that in this day and age, women who like sex are somehow ostracized as being S***s.  Diana was effectively a free agent and could do as she pleased. It is nobody's business, including the queen.

My only problem with her was going for married men after the stink she had raised about C&C. Other that all her unmarried lovers were fine by me. She was having fun and making up for lost time. Charles would only bring himself to the plate once every three weeks so it was not as if she was saturated with romance in her own marriage. The woman had a right to live as she wanted.

:goodpost: thats my thoughts on both parts @royalanthropologist  she lost a lot of the goodwill and high ground with some of the choices(or rumored choices) Barry, Oliver, Will,Dodi,Bryan were all either married or engaged/seriously attached (we've already talked about Juan Carlos so ill leave him out  :lol: ). Had she stuck to unattached men, she wouldnt have had to do panorama.

[TLLK]

My only problem with her was going for married men after the stink she had raised about C&C. Other that all her unmarried lovers were fine by me.

:nod: I agree.

[royalanthropologist]

@sandy. It is no use denying those affairs. Pretty much everybody in the know agrees they happened. That in my view was Diana's only mistake in terms of lovers. As far as I am concerned she could take her pick of single men she liked.

The royals would have no business trying to control her life. She had desperately wanted to be the perfect wife for them and they threw it back in her face. Thereafter she could do as she pleased. Even saying Dodi was unsuitable for the royal family was a bit rich in my view. If Charles had taken on Camilla (who was once considered unsuitable) then so could Diana take on Dodi.

The "Muslim step children" thing was just ridiculous as if they were still trying to control her life. You can't reject someone and then try to tell them who to love. Even if it was a fling, it was her fling and God she was entitled to it after that starvation diet in her marriage.

[amabel]

are you seriously comparing Dodi fayed (with his father in the background pushing him forward?) To Camilla??
I don't care what lvoers Diana took . it was her business, but if she complained that Charles had hurt HER desperately, by pursing a friendship with Camilla durng the early years of the marriage how come she did the same to Jul Carling??
and if she was so unhappy that Camilla was sleeping with Charles, within a few years, how come she did the same thing to Diane Hoare?

[royalanthropologist]

No they are not comparable and I did not intend to suggest that they were. My point was that Diana was a free agent after being abandoned in the family home. She could love anyone she like in any quantities and number she liked. My only criticism was when she was linked with married men. Other than that, I make no moralistic judgement about how many lovers she had. That seem a sticking point for some people who call her names because she apparently had 6 or 7 lovers in her lifetime. That figure is quite tame for most modern women at 36 years of age.

[amabel]

well true that the RF could not do anything about her marrying Dodi, if she had wished to.  But I think that it would have been a very bad thing for the RF to be connected however nebulously to the Fayed family.. and I'm sure they weren't happy iwht it. And it would also have been very bad for Diana. I think her reputation would have suffered, the more that was known about Dodi, I think that the public would have really cooled on her had she married into this nouveau riche family, with the ambitious, ruthless and vulgar MAF at its head.
I don't mind what lovers she took, it was up to her.  If she had affairs with married men fine, but make sure the wives were complacent.. and while I think D Hoare was complasaint up to a point, she didn't like the Diana affair because she was afraid that it would end iwht Hoare leaving her for Diana, and she put a stop to it.
ANd Diana was stupid to complain about C and Camilla doing the very things she did herself.  She "interfered" in other women's marriages.. and tried to break them up...
She went on pursuing Hoare after he had ended his affair with her and returned to his wife.. and that blew up in her face and she was seen as hypocritical.
And whiele I don't think that Dodi's girlfriend was his fiancée, he clearly had a relationship iwht her that predated his starting one with Diana, and I think he tried to juggle the two at first.. at least.  Diana may not have cared because she didn't intned the Dodi affair to be a serious one... but it didn't look good for her that she was involved iwht a man who was lightweight, selfish and irresponsible.. and who was still involved with another woman.  Had she married him, I think that a messy divorce would have been in the offing within a few years and that would have looked even worse for her reputation with the British public,

[sandy]

HOare had a longer term relationship with another woman pre Diana. Diane Hoare most likely felt that there was little chance that Diana would have bolted and lost custody of her children. Also, Diana and Hoare probably both realized they could not up and divorce their spouses without serious repercussions, including Diana's losing custody.

Dodi's father was a friend of John Spencer so there was a history there.  The royals knew this too.

@sandy. It is no use denying those affairs. Pretty much everybody in the know agrees they happened. That in my view was Diana's only mistake in terms of lovers. As far as I am concerned she could take her pick of single men she liked.

The royals would have no business trying to control her life. She had desperately wanted to be the perfect wife for them and they threw it back in her face. Thereafter she could do as she pleased. Even saying Dodi was unsuitable for the royal family was a bit rich in my view. If Charles had taken on Camilla (who was once considered unsuitable) then so could Diana take on Dodi.

The "Muslim step children" thing was just ridiculous as if they were still trying to control her life. You can't reject someone and then try to tell them who to love. Even if it was a fling, it was her fling and God she was entitled to it after that starvation diet in her marriage.

No I am stating facts. Hoare never confirmed or denied an affair and probably never will. He's still with his wife, in any case. So no marriage was broken up (fact). Diana never spoke publicly about what went on and it went with her to her grave. It is a fact based on observations of Jephson and Wharfe that HE pursued Diana and she was not a stalker. He should be held accountable especially since the Prince was his friend yet Diana is the only one blamed.

Carling denied there was an affair.

Diana was only dating Dodi. The nature of their relationship went with them to their graves.