Duch_Luver_4ever Digest #1

Started by Duch_Luver_4ever, April 13, 2017, 04:12:40 AM

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royalanthropologist

I rather suspect the royal family were also pleased in hindsight that Charles never actually got serious with Sarah. If she was blabbing to the press on first dates, what would happen if she was fully installed as a consort. Lack of discretion is definitely a very bad quality in a royal girlfriend or wife. Sarah is definitely better off where she is and I am sure Charles has no regrets on that score.

Btw I remember something being written about a spencer girl who said at the entrance of the cathederal on Diana's wedding; "All this could have been mine." Is it a true story and if true, who was it?
"In the past, people were born royal. Nowadays, royalty comes from what you do"...Gianni Versace

amabel

#101
Sorry Royal but please where do you read these things? I've never heard of them and I am fairly well up on the Charles and Di marriage and royal history.. I would be interested to know wherhe you read them.  If such a thing had been said it could only have been sarah S, obviously, anad I'm sure she never thought such a thing.

Double post auto-merged: April 18, 2017, 06:49:30 PM


Quote from: royalanthropologist on April 18, 2017, 12:49:32 PM
@amabel. This is a synthesis of some of the wider issues surrounding that interview. Some of the pages have been turned upside down for some reason but you can use your reviewer to skew them back correctly:

</title> endstream endobj 15 0 obj 17 endobj 16 0 obj [ /Indexed /DeviceRGB 1 17 0 R ] endobj 17 0 obj << /Length 18 0 R >> stream ÿÿÿ endstream


Double post auto-merged: April 18, 2017, 12:53:27 PM


As for Sarah: just goes to show discretion was never a strong quality amongst the Spencers. Why the need to blurb details about your suitor or potential suitor...and to tabloid journalist of all people??? If you are not interested, you just tell the person...not run to the nearest journalist and spill the beans.  I have a wicked satisfaction in knowing that Diana later made her an "extra lady in waiting". Lol :hehe:
I daresay she would have sung another tune if Charles had asked her to marry him.  However I think he wasn't that pushed about her.. IIRC he wasn't too happy to find that she smoked when they were on holiday, and wasn't much of a skier... I think that she was just at best a very mild romance..

sandy

Camilla smoked. So obviously, it was not an obstacle for Charles.

I think Sarah wanted to marry the Duke of Westminster, not Charles. Charles helped her through her illness (anorexia) after her breakup with the Duke. I don't think she wanted to marry Charles.

Double post auto-merged: April 18, 2017, 07:03:37 PM


Quote from: royalanthropologist on April 18, 2017, 05:40:38 PM
I rather suspect the royal family were also pleased in hindsight that Charles never actually got serious with Sarah. If she was blabbing to the press on first dates, what would happen if she was fully installed as a consort. Lack of discretion is definitely a very bad quality in a royal girlfriend or wife. Sarah is definitely better off where she is and I am sure Charles has no regrets on that score.

Btw I remember something being written about a spencer girl who said at the entrance of the cathederal on Diana's wedding; "All this could have been mine." Is it a true story and if true, who was it?

She was darn lucky she did that. She might have married Charles. She got a nice husband instead.

Sarah did not say all this could have been mine. I think that is a myth.

LouisFerdinand

Lady Sarah Spencer remarked, 'I wouldn't marry anyone I didn't love whether he was the dustman or the King of England.'   
The Prince of Wales was certainly not the dustman.


amabel

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on April 18, 2017, 11:38:24 PM
Lady Sarah Spencer remarked, 'I wouldn't marry anyone I didn't love whether he was the dustman or the King of England.'   
The Prince of Wales was certainly not the dustman.
I don't think he was every goig to ask her and certainly not agter she had been so stupd and ill bred as to tlak to the press.

sandy

I think she really did not want to marry him.

LouisFerdinand

Did Lady Sarah consider all the beautiful royal jewels she could have worn if Charles had proposed and marry her? :hmm: :hmm:


Curryong

Probably not. At that time, in the 1970's, the Queen and the Queen Mother were wearing a lot of those beautiful jewels themselves on a far more regular basis than the Queen does now. I just don't think Charles and Sarah S were that seriously involved, though Sarah liked the prestige of being a gf of the Prince of Wales. I don't think either of them were each other's cup of tea, and thinking about acquiring family jewels is no basis for a future marriage, anyway.

amabel

If she had had a chance of marrying him, she would probably have grabbed iwht both hands.. and at the lovely jewellery too.  But she had probalbly worked out  on their holiday that he liked her as a frend but it wasn't goign to go any further than that. I beleive that she wasn't a  good skiier, and she was a heavy smoker.. and he wasn't really quite ready to consider her as a possible wife... it was a few years before he had to really start thinking about that.

sandy

Charles was turned down by other women (Amanda Knatchbull and Anna Wallis and possibly Lady Jane Wellesley) so not every woman wanted him or thought he was a "Catch." Sarah wanted to marry the Duke of Westminster and he broke up with her. She started seeing Charles after that. I don't think she wanted to marry Charles if she did she would not have been careless with the media (it might have been a subconscious or conscious way of ending things. She said he was like a "brother" to her at one point which does not scream wanting to be a wife to him, for obvious reasons. It is not always Charles who was the dumper, sometimes he was the one dumped. I think Sarah lucked out and found the right person for her who was not Charles.

Duch_Luver_4ever

Some good points, Charles relationship was viewed more as consoling her after her prior relationship breakdown, and Diana did mention in the Settlen tapes that Sarah thought it was odd he didnt try to sleep with her. Towards the end the word was getting out among potential suitors of the PoW about the pressure of the press and Camilla and as it dragged on, more girls were waking up and saying "no".

So it leads back into the whole Private Eye thing and how much Diana knew at the start, and what her thoughts were about winning Charles over/changing his mind/heart about Camilla.
"No other member of the Royal Family mattered that year, or I think for the next 17 years, it was just her." Arthur Edwards, The Sun Photographer, talking about Diana's impact.

sandy

I read in one book that Sarah was more concerned about Kanga than Camilla. She dated Charles during the "kanga years" when Camilla was having children with APB and not available for Charles. But I think Charles was a "transitional" for her after her heartbreaking breakup with the DUke of Westminster.

Diana thought Charles loved her, at 19 she thought he courted her and wanted to marry her because he loved her. She told this to Morton. Diana did not travel in Charles' "set" until he started dating her. So she did not know as much about Camilla as Charles' circle (in his age group did). Charles probably did some sweet talking to Diana as well.

amabel

why woudl she be concerned about Dale Tyron if she wasn't interested in Charles?

sandy

Why not find out who wrote it and ask the writer, why ask me?. I am just reporting what I recalled reading.

I still think she did not want to marry Charles. She made a lucky escape. IMO


royalanthropologist

I rather suspect that there were some regrets on Sarah's part. That interview was a real mess-up. It is ridiculous to pretend that girls were not falling over themselves to get married to him. Sour grapes IMO.  Being Charles' wife is nothing to sniff about; otherwise Diana would not have fought tooth and nail to remain his wife. Even at his advanced age now, Charles can still get women if he really puts his mind to it: if for nothing but that pesky little thing called the British crown. Those who claim to have rejected him were really just defeated by the looming presence of Camilla or his refusal to take things further. At least Knatchbull was sensible enough to realize that it was hopeless to try to remove Camilla from Charles' life.
"In the past, people were born royal. Nowadays, royalty comes from what you do"...Gianni Versace

amabel

I don't believe anyone rejected him apart from Amanda Knatchbull and from what I've read that was parlty because  esp after her grandfather's assassination, she was very reluctant to marry someone who would be in the public eye and also IIRC, her mother has said that there was "no spark" between her and Charles.  She probably was too closely related to him to see him as a boyfriend.
I think there were certainly women whom he dated in the 70s who liked him but weren't that serious, and knew he wasn't "that serious" as he was still young and playing the field.. or found that as they got to know him, they didn't have enough in common to make up for the loss of freedom which a royal marriage would demand.  however I'd say that most of his girlfriends were at least likely to be tempted if he made a proposal.  However Sarah Spencers behaviour suggests that she was anxious to draw attenton to herself, chatting to the press and I would say she was not dating Charles just because she liked his company, she also hoped that there was a chance he might propose.  possibly she thought that talking about him might be a quid pro quo to the reporters, and they'd leave her alone and she could then pursue the romance and see if it ended in a proposal.. But it just woud have annoyed Charles..

sandy

#116
Mountbatten had a Gigi scenario, Charles had to wait for Amanda to grow up and come of age until he could court her. In the meantime, Mountbatten advised him to sow wild oats. Mountbatten would take the two on vacations so they could spend time together. Amanda probably did not feel any chemistry with Charles and said no to his proposal. Once Mountbatten died, he could not be around to try to talk his granddaughter into saying yes to Charles. Sarah only dated Charles after she was turned down by the Duke of Westminster, the man she wanted to marry. I don't think Sarah was that interested in Charles. She even said he was like a "brother" to her.


Quote from: royalanthropologist on April 22, 2017, 09:50:31 PM
I rather suspect that there were some regrets on Sarah's part. That interview was a real mess-up. It is ridiculous to pretend that girls were not falling over themselves to get married to him. Sour grapes IMO.  Being Charles' wife is nothing to sniff about; otherwise Diana would not have fought tooth and nail to remain his wife. Even at his advanced age now, Charles can still get women if he really puts his mind to it: if for nothing but that pesky little thing called the British crown. Those who claim to have rejected him were really just defeated by the looming presence of Camilla or his refusal to take things further. At least Knatchbull was sensible enough to realize that it was hopeless to try to remove Camilla from Charles' life.

After finding Mr Right and having children with him, I doubt Sarah has the least thought of what might have been with Prince Charles. It is not ridiculous--Amanda Knatchbull got a proposal from Charles and turned him down. Anna Wallace ditched him and walked away from the relationship. 

Diana did not cling to being Charles wife. If she had wanted to stay with Charles she could have become bff with Camilla, not cared if Charles strayed and not bothered with Andrew Morton and the tell all. She'd just enjoy the perks. She could have become a doormat. Diana had enough of the marriage.

I think the women who want Charles would be sycophants and royalists. Charles has not aged well but the HRH I suppose may hold some attractions for some women...

Amanda Knatchbull did not want to marry Charles. It may not necessarily have had anything to do with Camilla. It is possible for women not to be "mad" over Charles.

Sarah probably is very thankful she did not marry Charles. She has a husband that she's been married to for many years and has had beautiful children. Lucky her.

michelle0187

She may have seen the 1980 private eye mag and thought it wasn't anything deep enough to worry about because it did mention apb being there. I do recall seeing in the A & E documentary that she was somewhat relieved after having a talk between c and c in 1980 or 81',I'm not sure if that was true.

sandy

She told Morton she felt some relief when she found a note from Charles the night before the wedding telling her he was proud of her and looked forward to the wedding. She had the talk with Camilla some years later.

amabel

Quote from: michelle0187 on April 22, 2017, 11:39:23 PM
She may have seen the 1980 private eye mag and thought it wasn't anything deep enough to worry about because it did mention apb being there. I do recall seeing in the A & E documentary that she was somewhat relieved after having a talk between c and c in 1980 or 81',I'm not sure if that was true.
why would she talk to Charles and Camilla in 1980? esp if she allegedly didn't know what was going on until during her engagement and she didn't want Camila or Dale Tyron at the wedding?  As I recall the official story from charles' side was that Diana approacted him about Camilla during the engagement and that he told her that he had loved Camilla and other woman I the past and that now he loved HER...

sandy

If Charles said he loved Diana to her face, I wonder why he had that "whatever in love means" reply when asked by a reporter if he was in love with her? Camilla and Diana were seen together in photographs for a time. I think Diana did not want Camilla at the wedding breakfast (Camilla was at the wedding) because of the gift of the FG bracelet Charles was giving to her. I think Kanga also got a trinket. 

royalanthropologist

Diana did give contradictory messages about whether she believed Camilla had been having an affair with Charles right through the marriage or whether he just left Diana for her after 1986. Some friends report that Diana found it so hurtful that people were saying that he never loved her.  In Panorama she seems to indicate that there was a point at which he left (according to her woman's intuition) which means that for a time at least, he was not in contact with Camilla. In Morton Diana explicitly talks about happy times; so it was not an entirely unhappy marriage, quite contrary to those who insist that Charles never loved her at all and merely used her as a brood mare.

If someone is looking for signs that Charles is a bad man, they will definitely find them. Likewise if someone is looking for signs that he is a good man, they will find them. When you listen to the engagement interview in its entirety, you realize that "whatever love means" was an ironic put down to the reporter who was asking an impertinent question. Those who preferred the story of Charles the cold fish took it to mean that Charles was essentially saying he did not really love his wife. Diana's reaction here is very interesting. She cringes a bit. Another time they were in Wales and Charles joked about two wives. It was a joke and Diana smiled, but she also looked uncomfortable. That tells me that she was already very paranoid about Camilla and any joke would be interpreted as an attack on her.

There is an African proverb that you should not make jokes about feeble bones when there is a lame person nearby (It is a very mangled interpretation so advance apologies) but in this case it applies. The seeds of doubt had been sown and Diana was looking for evidence to support her conclusion. She found that evidence in everything that Charles did and reacted accordingly. He in turn found her entreaties and outbursts exhausting, particularly those that were off the mark.

Messy relationship for sure: one partner suspicious of the other and the other bored to death by the suspicions of their partner. Meanwhile you have the armchair marriage counselors telling you how you should love one another so that you can fulfill their private fantasies of a fairy tale royal romance. It was all headed south due to the toxic mix of third party interference, public scrutiny, media intrigue and the basic incompatibility of the two principals.
"In the past, people were born royal. Nowadays, royalty comes from what you do"...Gianni Versace

sandy

In his confessions to Dimbleby, Charles did admit he preferred Camilla when he married Diana. He never said he loved Diana in all the words he said to Dimbleby. Diana did not claim this, Charles actually admitted it. This was over a year before Panorama.  MOrton never said Camilla was Charles' lover or mistress just a "friend." Later, Charles admitted to Dimbleby she was his mistress. Charles never said publicly he loved DIana. The fact remains. And he and Camilla and his friends were interviewed by Bedell Smith and she Diana gets worse treatment in Smith's book than she did in Dimbleby (I suppose her being alive when Dimbleby's book came out had something to do with it).

Charles did not just plain say "yes" when asked if they were in love.  That fact remains. His silly comment I think showed he was hedging perhaps to please Camilla. Diana did not cringe, she looked at him and just started agreeing with him when someone said they were "two happy people."

Diana was no way paranoid about Camilla. If she were, Camilla would still be happily married to Andrew Parker Bowles and she and Charles never got together. Diana was spot on. Diana was uncomfortable with Charles' jealousy of her during public appearances and mentioned this to Bashir in 1994. I think Charles remark was tasteless.

Diana had every right to be suspicious and she was spot on about Camilla.

amabel

Quote from: royalanthropologist on April 23, 2017, 01:01:13 PM

If someone is looking for signs that Charles is a bad man, they will definitely find them. Likewise if someone is looking for signs that he is a good man, they will find them. When you listen to the engagement interview in its entirety, you realize that "whatever love means" was an ironic put down to the reporter who was asking an impertinent question. Those who preferred the story of Charles the cold fish took it to mean that Charles was essentially saying he did not really love his wife. Diana's reaction here is very interesting. She cringes a bit.
I think that charles' remark was just him trying to sound clever, I don't think that Diana cringes,  but perhaps she was a bit embarrassed by what seemed a rather clumsy remark.. she was used to playing along nicely with the media... whereas Charles was uneasy with them,
and yes she was a bit vague about the early years of the marriage and when it went pear shaped. I don't believe ti was all misery even if the problems were there from early on.  And All marriages even the best have problems. I think they had some happy times when the children were babies, and when she was pregnant, but there was always tension..

royalanthropologist

But you see Amabel, that is precisely why it is so important for some royal watchers to insist on that fiction that Charles was sleeping with Camilla from day one of that marriage. Anything other than that would show them up to be the sanctimonious intruders in that marriage who claim to know more about what happened than the people who were in the marriage. Like any marriage it had ups and downs; with the important difference that Charles gave up trying after 1986 and moved back to his old mistress. 

Diana herself was no longer happy about being portrayed as a victim whose husband never loved her and cheated her from day one. It was just not true and even demeaning to her. I wish she was here to put some of her fans straight. They seem stuck on the "Charles is a very bad man and it is all Camilla's fault" train. I gave up long time ago trying to reason with them. I just say my piece and move on. It is safer that way and less risk of falling foul of the moderators.
"In the past, people were born royal. Nowadays, royalty comes from what you do"...Gianni Versace