Transition to Prince Charles' Reign

Started by Curryong, September 16, 2017, 01:38:26 AM

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Curryong

The Fail has an interesting piece here on the transferring of Royal duties, as the Queen ages, to Charles. There is also a bit of background on the rivalries between CH and the Palace and why the Queen allowed her Private Secretary to resign. Of course it's a rip off from the Times, but that particular newspaper is behind a paywall anyway. Interesting times ahead I think, with Charles already the oldest ever Heir to the Throne.

Queen's top aide 'is ousted in power struggle' | Daily Mail Online


TLLK


sandy

Charles should  have  realized that in all likelihood he'd have a long wait. His mother gave birth to him when she was 22. She became Queen at a young age.  He kept busy with causes and charities as Prince of Wales and has done many appearances.  It was more unlikely he'd become King at a young age.  This is his world.

Elliee

I find it interesting how none of the offices work together. I think KP is a mess, and nobody can reign them in (thus make them work and pick up the slack); then we have Charles who quite rightly does want more influence imo because he's the one stepping into his mother's shoes and will be doing more work for her, so if BP wasn't working with CH I get why he was upset but to push Sir Christopher out is kinda shady. I wonder how true any of this is.

Curryong

The Times article behind the paywall states that KP got on well with Sir Christopher and had nothing to do with him being ousted.

It had to do with Charles and Andrew teaming up and going to the Queen to complain about him. The Times says that Andrew found it a good opportunity to dislodge a man whom he holds responsible for the loss of his Trade Envoy job. He also apparently blocked some helicopter flights and jet flights Andrew wished to use.
The Queen ultimately agreed because at 91 she 'wants a quiet life'.

Charles's staff believed Sir Christopher was 'going above his station' when he announced Prince Philip's retirement as he did. Sir C also wanted BP and CH to work as one but Charles and his staff balked at that. They want to do things their way.

The Times is probably Britain's most prestigious paper. It has great contacts. The latest BBC report seems to confirm that Sir Christopher was pushed to resign.

royalanthropologist

I have to say that senior members of the royal family are entitled to sack or accept the resignations of employees who are no longer up to their requirements. That is what virtually every employer is entitled to do. I also think that the queen is gradually handing over the affairs of state to Charles as she gets older and realizes that the succession may come at any moment.
"In the past, people were born royal. Nowadays, royalty comes from what you do"...Gianni Versace

TLLK

Quote from: Curryong on September 16, 2017, 05:11:42 PM
The Times article behind the paywall states that KP got on well with Sir Christopher and had nothing to do with him being ousted.

It had to do with Charles and Andrew teaming up and going to the Queen to complain about him. The Times says that Andrew found it a good opportunity to dislodge a man whom he holds responsible for the loss of his Trade Envoy job. He also apparently blocked some helicopter flights and jet flights Andrew wished to use.
The Queen ultimately agreed because at 91 she 'wants a quiet life'.

Charles's staff believed Sir Christopher was 'going above his station' when he announced Prince Philip's retirement as he did. Sir C also wanted BP and CH to work as one but Charles and his staff balked at that. They want to do things their way.

The Times is probably Britain's most prestigious paper. It has great contacts. The latest BBC report seems to confirm that Sir Christopher was pushed to resign.
I agree @Curryong that I would trust The Times' information regarding the involvement of KP in the ouster of Sir Christopher over anything implied by their tabloid competitors. If their article points to the actions of CH (PoW) and BP(DoY) being the primary reasons for his removal, then I believe it is valid.

royalanthropologist

Whatever the rights and wrongs of this, if indeed Sir Christopher sanctioned the briefings by those anonymous sources then probably the queen was quite right to accept the resignation. Any time an employee becomes the story, it is time to say good bye. Besides, it is a very foolish person who would imagine that the queen would ever take their side against her son and heir. Many people who have tried that tack have ended up outside the royal family.

Having said all that, it might just be a case of bored people coming up with made up stories for the idle and ignorant to feast on.
"In the past, people were born royal. Nowadays, royalty comes from what you do"...Gianni Versace

Curryong

I'm sure that Sir Christopher was approached and said No. However, like all bureaucracies the Royal Household is an absolute hotbed of gossip verifiable or otherwise. Nevertheless, the Times has the highest reputation for filing reports with substance behind them and I'm inclined to believe the Times on this occasion as well.

The announcement of Prince Philip's retirement, however, was not well done. The hurried nature of it, the fact that members of the Queen's Household were bussed in from all over the country, the meeting in the middle of the night at which the announcement was made, was highly dramatic.

Of course, as was inevitable, the tabloids and foreign and British media sites got into a lather of anticipation and excitement for hours about PP's possible sudden death. A few memos and a quiet BP press release would have been much much better. I'm inclined to think that it was that schmozzle, if Sir C was responsible for it all of course, that hoisted him on his own petard.

DaFluffs

Even though PC & PA were behind the ouster, I suspect both had very different motivations.  PC is seeking more managerial control, PA is seeking access to money.  These differences in motivation between the princes are going to come to a head someday. 

Its a shame that Sir Christopher resigned.  They way I read the article is that he served as a buffer to the Monarchy in preventing the personal motivations of the princes ruin the purse and management of the Monarchy.

Now that the position is vacant (I noticed that his assistant resigned too), who on earth would WANT that job?



royalanthropologist

But he should have known that being on the wrong side of the queen's heir was just a ticking time bomb. Of course they will get recruits. It is a well-paid and prestigious job. You just have to ensure you do not cross the queen's children or else you are out. I think that pretty much happens in most families.
"In the past, people were born royal. Nowadays, royalty comes from what you do"...Gianni Versace

amabel

If he was responsible for the whole Hoo ha of announcing that Philip was stepping down, he DID do a bad job.  I should say that the queen realises this. and yes, of course they will get people wanting the job.  Its well paid, its highly desirable tio be working for the queen or POW.  and if you really don't like it after a bit you can leave

LouisFerdinand

Do you think that Prince Charles would be allowed to let Prince William see the Red Boxes while Elizabeth II is The Queen?


Izabella

Red...yellow...green...translucent...blue..polka-dot boxes why not?!  :lol:

TLLK

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on November 12, 2018, 01:09:48 AM
Do you think that Prince Charles would be allowed to let Prince William see the Red Boxes while Elizabeth II is The Queen?
That would be QEII's decision not Prince Charles. I would expect that the government would also have some say in the matter as well.

Curryong

Yes, it's mainly a decision of Cabinet as to who sees documents in the red boxes. Charles has seen copies of what his mother sees for many years. William occasionally sees copies if it's regarded as very important or relevant, for instance if an international crisis blew up or some decision of government affected Duchy of Cornwall holdings in the future. I would imagine William would have been briefed on certain Cabinet decisions pertaining to the Middle East for example before his recent trip out there. However, until he's POW he won't be seeing the lot, just a selected few.

Princes Charles and William given access to confidential government papers ? Royal Central

TLLK

^^^ :goodpost:@Curryong. I would expect that William has known about the purpose of the red boxes for a long time, but reviewing the actual contents of the boxes is different.

QuoteThe government only allows a select few to see the information that addresses sensitive topics, such as national security, constitutional reform, economic affairs and Europe. The list of recipients includes ?The Queen, the Prince of Wales, all members of the Cabinet, any other Ministers in charge of Department (or to be treated as in charge of Departments) the Attorney General and the Chief Whip.?

LouisFerdinand

Has Prince Philip ever seen the contents of the Red Boxes?


Curryong

No, never. The Queen is the template for a constitutional monarch and Philip isn't on the list of people that Cabinet wishes to view the papers. It's restricted to the monarch and direct heirs.

Admittedly Albert the Prince Consort took over perusing the red boxes for Victoria during her first couple of pregnancies (though she still had to sign the bills into law) and continued afterwards. However, Britain in the 1840s was a very much male-dominated society, and Cabinet approved. Even the 1950s when Queen Elizabeth succeeded was a very different kettle of fish.

(Funnily enough, Edward VII encouraged his son George to show his wife the contents of the red boxes that were sent to him as he valued Mary's judgement.)

LouisFerdinand

Did King Edward VII have to stipulate in writing that he wanted Prince George to show Princess Mary the contents of the Red Boxes?


Curryong

I doubt Edward put anything in writing. That would have made things official. If George called Mary into his study periodically and said ' Take a look at these, May, and tell me what you think' handing some papers over, what Cabinet Member or Govt MP was ever going to find out? They were an extra discreet couple.