Charles’ plan to get Camilla accepted as Queen FOILED after Diana doc

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

Princess Diana documentary foiled Prince Charles' Camilla as Queen plan | Royal | News | Express.co.uk

a bit of clickbait, but should generate some debate, as I think at least there was some concern, hence these have taken so long to be broadcast in the UK.

[Curryong]

Richard Palmer, who IMO is one of the more reliable Royal correspondents was discussing this a bit on his Twitter page after that doco was shown and the article appeared. He inferred that every now and again the issue of Camilla's title when Charles becomes King comes up in discussions with CH officials/aides etc, and he said that the consistent message from them since 2005 has been that Camilla will become Princess Consort.

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

I can't forgive Camilla for way she treated Princess Di | Daily Mail Online

Charles and Camilla?s cloak-and-dagger sunshine getaway | Daily Mail Online

Some sort of related posts, I think both though relate to some of the words by Patrick Jephson regarding his opinion of royalty being changed through the events and about blind loyalty, etc.

Look at the pic of APB, if there isnt a better image of "cucked" I cant think of one (would you like some sandwiches sir, before you roger my wife again????? :lol: :teehee: :lol: ). But besides that, im sure he felt he was doing the "right thing" either by going along to get along, or to give allowance for his dalliances, or he might have felt it was his duty to give blind loyalty to the crown in letting Charles do what he wanted, whereas Jephson when faced with the same situation, albeit different, chose the other path (or so he claims, conveniently after Dianas death, and seeing that the bread is much better buttered on the pro-Diana side, to be fair, or at least grey).

But my point was, it seems at no point did anyone step back and say "hold on, fun is fun and all, but is this really the best thing for the country?" I think the combination of generations of British and upper classes deference to anyone remotely royal, and the at the time seemingly impossible event of a divorce led people to not ask the serious question of what the rendering asunder of this marriage would do.

[royalanthropologist]

I sincerely do hope Camilla finds it in her heart to forgive Amanda Platell for writing innate and hateful articles all these years. That would be the right Christian thing to do...turn the other cheek sort of thing.

The Diana documentaries are a double-edged sword. They make Diana's case very well...but in so doing they also make Charles' case without him having to lift a finger. As Diana reveals and reveals, she inadvertently condemns herself. The stories reveal someone who was brilliant in public with strangers but not so brilliant in private with closer people. It reveals a complex person who frankly many people would struggle to live with, let alone getting married. 

As for the ardent prayers that Camilla will be denied her title, the government has made it absolutely clear: the moment Charles ascends to the throne, Camilla becomes his queen. They are flexible about the title she may use (it is in Charles' gift as a King) but there is absolutely no question of Camilla not enjoying the full titles and privileges of a queen. It would be absolutely scandalous for Camilla to have to courtesy and pay deference to other consorts. I am certain the government would find that totally unacceptable. Even now before she ascends the throne, Camilla is sometimes given precedence over other crown princesses because of her position and age.

I remember when some commentators said that Diana's death had effectively marked the end of the C&C relationship or hope of marriage. Look where that prediction ended? These musings, hopes and predictions will end up the same way. If Charles wants Camilla to be his queen, she will be.

[Curryong]

Yes, wonder how APB felt as the party basked in the Turkish sun. Wondering whether the lovebirds were having a rollicking good time every night? Just handing my wife over for the duration... At least when Mrs Simpson joined Edward in that Adriatic summer holiday in 1935 he had the grace not to invite Ernest as well. Pity Charles chose not to do what Edward did, and go into exile after abdicating his position but no, can't have that. Must have cake and eat it too.

I remember the words of Diana's ballet teacher friend and her recollections of how heartbroken Diana was. Yes, some of us remember, and won't ever forget, or forgive either.

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

I think in terms of day to day life, there will be little difference if they stick with the Princess consort vs Queen Concert. Im sure she has many of the same comforts Diana had minus the PoW title, probably more as Charles is eager to finally have his way now :lol:

Look at DoE, even though we dont call him King Phillip, he gets treated, more or less like that, albeit,a notch less due to him marrying to the position vs HM being born to it.

Also im sure Camilla wont be put out having to show deference to other monarchs, even as a Princess consort, we can all be assured Charles will see to that  :lol: :teehee:.

As for the Diana docs, I dont think they condemn her, they show many sides of her, but the worst in her, so to speak was brought out by some pretty awful circumstances. If you look at the doc with H&W, I could see so much of my own feelings, in the way the men who knew her day in, day out, pre & post wedding, described the first time they saw her, that everyone was in love with her.

I think it was the fact that she had to deal with so much change, with little support, as after all it was her job to be thrilled to watch Charles do paperwork, and maybe shed have come round to that, but I think it was the feeling that she was duped into the whole thing and likely felt made a fool of, for not seeing the C&C thing in time.

While Charles strayed with many over the married years, had his main one not been Camilla, I think it would have gone easier and shed have been easier to deal with. Its likely too late, but I do hope the docs give the UK public a chance to rethink their blind chowderhead return to clapping like trained seals to the RF, but I fear the time for that is too late, if these had come out when they did in the US, the C&C wedding would have been delayed a good 5 years at least.

But maybe this is a better time to get ppl a little riled up just before HM passes, although i doubt the British public has the stones to tell Charles, thanks, but no thanks, its william or we're going republican.


 

[Curryong]

Another poll. Penny Junor comments, Ingrid Seward comments.

Most Brits want Prince William to be the next King... and over a third say Camilla Parker-Bowles should not become Queen if Prince Charles takes the

[FanDianaFancy]

William will be King of England around 2037. His turn is coming, He has a wait
10 years more for QEII and then King Charles and Queen Camilla for another 10.

Polls mean nothing. Various polls from various classes of various Brits mean nothing. Zero. Squat. Nada. Nyet.

It will be King Charles and Queen Camilla as she will be to Euro crowned heads, world leaders, and the aristocracy,nobility of England.

I cannot stand her,. She will use her correct rank, title of Queen.

[Trudie]

 :hehe:Karma and Diana the gifts that keep on giving to Charles and Camilla. Diana only had to live with a crowded marriage for 15 years now Camilla has to live with a crowded marriage until the day one of them departs.

[sandy]

William will be King of England around 2037. His turn is coming, He has a wait
10 years more for QEII and then King Charles and Queen Camilla for another 10.

Polls mean nothing. Various polls from various classes of various Brits mean nothing. Zero. Squat. Nada. Nyet.

It will be King Charles and Queen Camilla as she will be to Euro crowned heads, world leaders, and the aristocracy,nobility of England.

I cannot stand her,. She will use her correct rank, title of Queen.

The thing is none of them know when they will move up. Each have to be prepared and they don't know how long they have to waitl.
Double post auto-merged: August 13, 2017, 10:01:14 PM

I sincerely do hope Camilla finds it in her heart to forgive Amanda Platell for writing innate and hateful articles all these years. That would be the right Christian thing to do...turn the other cheek sort of thing.

The Diana documentaries are a double-edged sword. They make Diana's case very well...but in so doing they also make Charles' case without him having to lift a finger. As Diana reveals and reveals, she inadvertently condemns herself. The stories reveal someone who was brilliant in public with strangers but not so brilliant in private with closer people. It reveals a complex person who frankly many people would struggle to live with, let alone getting married. 

As for the ardent prayers that Camilla will be denied her title, the government has made it absolutely clear: the moment Charles ascends to the throne, Camilla becomes his queen. They are flexible about the title she may use (it is in Charles' gift as a King) but there is absolutely no question of Camilla not enjoying the full titles and privileges of a queen. It would be absolutely scandalous for Camilla to have to courtesy and pay deference to other consorts. I am certain the government would find that totally unacceptable. Even now before she ascends the throne, Camilla is sometimes given precedence over other crown princesses because of her position and age.

I remember when some commentators said that Diana's death had effectively marked the end of the C&C relationship or hope of marriage. Look where that prediction ended? These musings, hopes and predictions will end up the same way. If Charles wants Camilla to be his queen, she will be.

Truly, I don't think Camilla cares about the article.She probably ignored it.

There were no real new revelations about Diana since those tapes were in the public domain for years.

[royalanthropologist]

I doubt the royal family actually watched the program. They may have been briefed about it but I would be surprised if Camilla even watched it. Having said that, I hear she did watch panorama and found it quite theatrical. Today there was a picture of C&C going to Church. They did not look like people who were quaking in their boots about the backlash from the documentary. In fact Camilla seems to be relaxed and smiling. The rest of the family was the same.

The dreams of skipping over or three in a marriage are just that...dreams. They are not going to pass. Those members of the public who do not like C&C are going through a grieving process. Some are at the denial stage while others are at the accommodation stage. Eventually some will just have to accept reality. Barring unexpected deaths, C&C will be King and Queen. It is what it is. Likewise Diana is not in their marriage. They ignored her when she was alive and I am they certainly do when she is dead.

[FanDianaFancy]

Ehhhhh, royal...not really. I agree and have said 100 times, TBRF and C and C could care less about PD.
QEII , I am sure,  and PP even , do not say things or probably anything about PD. W and  H
W and H.
It is all about them
Actually, I am wrong, very wrong.
QEII and PP did nothing to D. They were not married to her and are of a different era.
I bet they have said over the years to W and  H, that their mother would so proud of them for this and that in their lives.

C and C , K and Q, next up , I am sure C has never mentioned D to W and H ..,oh how proud she would be  for you William ....your family... Harry, your work.

Really,Lol👺

The British people, polls none of that matters to C. C , week, he has had pr machines working to revamp her image and him with her as a couple, but their history is still there. Pretty it up with tiaras and diamonds  and years, still it was what it was.

So yes, Diana still is in the present at every turn.

Whywhywhy...can people not move on? People have. Fans of Diana's have. No one is grieving for her. Her sons miss their mother every day and think of her.
Nothing unusual there,
Don't we all miss our loved ones and think of them talk of them yet we have moved on and lived on.

Yes sandy, no one knows the when any of them will pass away, but my point is that these people do live long lives and usually die of natural cause. They have best health care and no life stresses like regular people  and these BRF are waited on hand and foot. Look for C andC to live well to 90 and longer.

Diana  on  being the gift that keeps on giving...this August was anniversary of her passing and her sons wanted to talk.
No matter what, C is not , will never be QueenMother. MOTHER.
H andW did not fall out of the sky and PC did not reproduce like an amoeba.

sandy and royal, only time will tell about C andC if he dies beifore King.

If so , I predict Camilla will have a nice elderly life at Raymill House, her personal home bought for her by PC  and be Queen Camilla to her children and grandkids. She already is to them. No formal title , coronation needed, lol.
I predict if PC dies before being K, King William and Queen Catherine and Prince Henry, Duke of whatever, won't be seeing her.
I predict Highgrove is willed by PC to his godson, Thomas PB.  They have their trust funds from Sir.
I predict if Charles is K and dies first, C will be ,of course, titled Dowager,,,,but stilll, I bet King Willian the Henry, Duke of whatever will have nothing to do with her.

[royalanthropologist]

The longevity of the Windsors and Camilla's smoking in her early days probably mean Charles will outlive her. If at that time, they are already crowned; it will be very tempting for Charles to abdicate. I cannot see him continuing alone without her. Their fates are so entwined that it is unlikely that he would want to go on engagements alone. She has quite simply been his anchor right from the time he met her.  I tend to see that with long term couples: when one dies, the other soon follows.

If she becomes a queen dowager, I can see Camilla retiring back to her private residence at Raymill. There are children and grand children to consider and plus she will not want for anything in material terms. The lack of engagement in state occasions will not be that important to her when Charles is not here.  She might attend the coronation of W&K if invited and will certainly have a state funeral as a wife of a king.

Camilla has never struck me as someone who likes the bright lights or the media intrusion. Her role has always to stick up for Charles and prop him up when he needs to be propped up. Even the engagements she does to day are mostly focused on supporting Charles. She has indicated no desire for an independent public role.

[sandy]

I do think Charles would continue without Camilla. I doubt he would even think of abdicating.

Camilla to me appears to like the attention and is always looking for and finding the cameras.  Camilla has to work not just "support" Charles. She does solo engagements. I don't think Charles needs propping up. He managed before he even met her. CHarles has insecurities and complains but he never needed propping up when he did his work and I doubt ever will.

[TLLK]

If she becomes a queen dowager, I can see Camilla retiring back to her private residence at Raymill. There are children and grand children to consider and plus she will not want for anything in material terms. The lack of engagement in state occasions will not be that important to her when Charles is not here.  She might attend the coronation of W&K if invited and will certainly have a state funeral as a wife of a king.

I agree @royalanthropologist  that a quiet retirement to Raymill would be perfect for Camilla should Charles predecease her. I suspect that her osteoporosis will likely impact her activity level too.
Yes I do believe that she'd be invited to William and Kate's coronation but attendance might be conditional based upon her health at that point in time.

Now I'm not sure if Camilla would even want a state funeral if she were to be Queen or Princess Consort.  She could indicate that she'd prefer something quieter ie: Funeral  at St. George's and a private internment beside her spouse when the time comes.

Forgive me for going a bit off topic but I was wondering about this inevitable episode. Having recently toured St. George's, I'm curious as to where the next burial sites ill be. Among the more recent monarchs: George VI, Queen Elizabeth and Princess Margaret's ashes are in the small chapel on the side. George V and Queen Mary are in the nave. Edward VII and Queen Alexandra are closer to the altar. Does anyone know what the future plans are for QEII, DoE etc...?

[Curryong]

^ I don't think anyone knows about the future burial sites of members of the BRF. I do know that I read that the Royal burial ground at Frogmore is full. They could maybe squash a hedgehog in there, certainly nothing larger.

Of course there are various Royal chapels in cathedrals and chapels associated with the Royal family in and around London. It may come down to cremations for the Queen and Prince Philip and their ashes put near her parents.

On the other hand, perhaps Prince Philip would prefer open air. In theory I suppose both could be buried quietly at Sandringham. Not Balmoral, I think, too remote and Scotland may split away in the future. I think both would like simple unshowy funerals and then internment in some quiet Royal Chapel, so it is likely to be St George's IMO.

In Queen Victoria's reign some of King George III's children and grandchildren opted for burials in the then new and fashionable cemeteries that were springing up, like Kensal. The BRF has been getting so large that probably only sovereigns and their immediate families will be buried in any Royal burial grounds or Chapels in the future, and the rest will be buried elsewhere.

[TLLK]

@Curryong-Good points regarding future sites. Perhaps QEII and the DoE will be squeezed into St. George's but after that who knows? The BRF doesn't really have a long established resting place for all of the monarchs like the Spanish, Dutch, and Danish families.  I did find this article from a few years ago and one poster suggests that the Queen and DoE will be with her parents eventually. Where will she rest in peace? | Queen Elizabeth II and The Duke of Edinburgh | Forum | Unofficial Royalty
My husband and daughter kept me busy trying to explain the timelines and order of succession for  English, Scottish, and British monarchs on our recent trip. Fortunately audio guides from Westminster Abbey and American travel host Rick Steve, made that task a little easier. Was very appreciative of the docent at St. George's chapel who was able to guide me back to Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville's graves. Can't believe that I'd missed them on the first round and I felt like a salmon swimming upstream against a large group of Chinese tourists.  :D

[royalanthropologist]

Really @sandy re: Camilla looking for Cameras? That is not the impression I get from the press corps. Camilla is friendly with them and will pose how they want her to pose but I have never heard anyone in the press accusing Camilla of courting or liking media attention. For the most part, she is a very private person who typically says very little no matter what the provocation is.

Doing solo engagements does not mean that Camilla is interested in jostling for an independent role. She is merely undertaking her duties in support of the queen and her husband.

Even when the Sun came up with that made up story of the bread rolls in Wiltshire, Camilla did not bother to correct them. It was much, much later that the Sun journalists admitted that they had made up the story in the feeding frenzy. And they know of course that the royals rarely respond or sue; so they can pretty much write all the rubbish they want.

And yes, Charles himself admits how much of a support she has been to him; particularly at a time when it seemed that the entire world was against him (of course it wasn't but that is the impression you get when you read some of the gossipy tabloids). That is why I think he would be unlikely to carry on if she passed on in their old age. I may be wrong, but that is my prediction based on how close their relationship has been all these years.

Even when they were not married, Charles always went back to Camilla and relied on her unconditional support. When they were married in 2005, Charles remarked that "I always knew she was the girl for me". Of course, I could go into why he didn't marry her when he could but that is another thread.

[Curryong]

Oh, TLLK, I'm sure you had no trouble at all keeping those monarchs and dates in your head! Isn't St George's an absolutely stunning church? If Harry marries there I will be very happy. The place absolutely oozes history.
I think Victoria possibly had the right idea in building a mausoleum for herself and her beloved husband, though it was a bit of a surprise that she insisted on a mausoleum for her mother too. She was obsessive in planning the details of these two buildings and their interiors. However, long term perhaps not such a great idea as they haven't been kept in good repair at all really.

It is a shame that there is no one building for all, as in Spain, Denmark etc., though of course quite a few early English monarchs fought and died in France and were buried in French abbeys. It's very odd though that King George I was allowed to be interred in his home in Hanover. I just wonder whether a mausoleum or two for future monarchs, near Victoria and Albert's, would be the way to go. Of course there would be questions of expense and ongoing maintenance though.
Double post auto-merged: August 14, 2017, 04:07:47 PM

Delete Double Post

[sandy]

Really @sandy re: Camilla looking for Cameras? That is not the impression I get from the press corps. Camilla is friendly with them and will pose how they want her to pose but I have never heard anyone in the press accusing Camilla of courting or liking media attention. For the most part, she is a very private person who typically says very little no matter what the provocation is.

Doing solo engagements does not mean that Camilla is interested in jostling for an independent role. She is merely undertaking her duties in support of the queen and her husband.

Even when the Sun came up with that made up story of the bread rolls in Wiltshire, Camilla did not bother to correct them. It was much, much later that the Sun journalists admitted that they had made up the story in the feeding frenzy. And they know of course that the royals rarely respond or sue; so they can pretty much write all the rubbish they want.

And yes, Charles himself admits how much of a support she has been to him; particularly at a time when it seemed that the entire world was against him (of course it wasn't but that is the impression you get when you read some of the gossipy tabloids). That is why I think he would be unlikely to carry on if she passed on in their old age. I may be wrong, but that is my prediction based on how close their relationship has been all these years.

Even when they were not married, Charles always went back to Camilla and relied on her unconditional support. When they were married in 2005, Charles remarked that "I always knew she was the girl for me". Of course, I could go into why he didn't marry her when he could but that is another thread.

I've seen plenty of photos where Camilla looks for the cameras and grins while Charles and others in the film look ahead or talk among themselves. That's something she does. I stand by my post. At the White House visit she was turning around grinning and lost her place so she separated from the others. Then First Lady Laura Bush had to guide her to the door.

I'm not saying Camilla wants to do separate duties. She is supposed to do both. She can't just trail after her husband, she got training and instructions by Bolland and others on how to approach her role and what is expected of her. She even gives speeches.

Camilla gave an interview recently and apparently cooperated with Junor on the biography, I don't consider the wife of the heir to the throne a "private person." She is supposed to be out there and well known.

Charles has PR to deal with negative press and courtiers to advise him on it. He has "people" to work on his image.

I think Charles will continue to work if Camilla predeceases him. Some long term marrieds who mourn for their wives up and remarry. And it is a surprise to those who knew the couple.  If they are lonely, some men do remarry. Not saying Charles would necessarily do it but it does happen in life. Woodrow Wilson for instance was married for a long time with grown daughters and mourned his wife remarried in a relatively short time after her death.

Even Queen Victoria became close to Mr Brown after Albert's death. She did not remarry but he became her companion (the nature of the relationship is subject to speculation).

[TLLK]

Camilla looking for Cameras? That is not the impression I get from the press corps. Camilla is friendly with them and will pose how they want her to pose but I have never heard anyone in the press accusing Camilla of courting or liking media attention. For the most part, she is a very private person who typically says very little no matter what the provocation is.

I've noticed that many royals are accused of "looking for the camera" ie: Letizia, Maxima, Mary, Rania etc... However when you watch video, you'll typically see that they've turned their heads when their name is called by members of the press or by people who have gathered to see them arrive or exit an event.

[sandy]

My impression. And I'm sticking to it.

[TLLK]

Oh, TLLK, I'm sure you had no trouble at all keeping those monarchs and dates in your head! Isn't St George's an absolutely stunning church? If Harry marries there I will be very happy. The place absolutely oozes history.

IMHO it is the loveliest of the churches associated with the BRF-WA and SP so I'm on "Team St. George" but it is a tad small.

[dianab]

I doubt the royal family actually watched the program. They may have been briefed about it but I would be surprised if Camilla even watched it. Having said that, I hear she did watch panorama and found it quite theatrical. Today there was a picture of C&C going to Church. They did not look like people who were quaking in their boots about the backlash from the documentary. In fact Camilla seems to be relaxed and smiling. The rest of the family was the same.

Charles actually looked odd/weird...

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/08/13/12/433781B300000578-0-image-a-36_1502624877809.jpg

[sandy]

He does not look well. She looks at cameras and grins. Two different moods in one car