British Royal Titles and the Laws of Sucession in the UK

[LouisFerdinand]

                     
A thread to discuss the royal titles for the British Royal Family and the laws of Succession in the United Kingdom. This discussion also includes conversation on the titles of those who marry into the British Royal Family.  :happyuk: :crown:

The Laws of Succession in the United Kingdom explained here as well as the current order of succession to the throne.

Succession | The Royal Family

The first ten people in order of succession who are in line to inherit the throne.

1. The Prince of Wales

2. The Duke of Cambridge

3. Prince George of Cambridge

4. Princess Charlotte of Cambridge

5. Prince Louis of Cambridge

6. The Duke of Sussex

7. Master Archie Mountbatten-Windsor

8. Miss Lilibet Mountbatten-Windsor

9. The Duke of York

10. Princess Beatrice, Mrs. Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi

The basis for the succession was determined in the constitutional developments of the seventeenth century, which culminated in the Bill of Rights (1689) and the Act of Settlement (1701).

When James II fled the country in 1688, Parliament held that he had 'abdicated the government' and that the throne was vacant. The throne was then offered, not to James's young son, but to his daughter Mary and her husband William of Orange, as joint rulers.

It therefore came to be established not only that the Sovereign rules through Parliament, but that the succession to the throne can be regulated by Parliament, and that a Sovereign can be deprived of his/her title through misgovernment. The Act of Settlement confirmed that it was for Parliament to determine the title to the throne.

The Act laid down that only Protestant descendants of Princess Sophia - the Electress of Hanover and granddaughter of James I - are eligible to succeed. Subsequent Acts have confirmed this.

Parliament, under the Bill of Rights and the Act of Settlement, also laid down various conditions which the Sovereign must meet. A Roman Catholic is specifically excluded from succession to the throne.
The Sovereign must, in addition, be in communion with the Church of England and must swear to preserve the established Church of England and the established Church of Scotland. The Sovereign must also promise to uphold the Protestant succession.

The Succession to the Crown Act (2013) amended the provisions of the Bill of Rights and the Act of Settlement to end the system of male primogeniture, under which a younger son can displace an elder daughter in the line of succession. The Act applies to those born after 28 October 2011. The Act also ended the provisions by which those who marry Roman Catholics are disqualified from the line of succession. The changes came into force in all sixteen Realms in March 2015. 

What titles will Camilla and Catherine have?   
                          Future of the British Crown 2/4: What will the Next Queens be Called? - YouTube

[LouisFerdinand]

Queen Camilla could be a Queen Dowager but not a Queen Mother. This is obvious because Camilla is the stepmother of Prince William (King William V).

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

I think we did this already in another thread about the whole queen regent thing, while im on the fighting side of "he11 no" to Camilla being Queen regent, I dont have the energy to do it again.

[royalanthropologist]

It is not he who uses the title but who exercises it that is important here. Queen regent is not a recognized title in the British system. One can only be a Prince or Princess regent. Camilla can be a princess regent if her husband is a prince regent (possible if the Queen becomes infirm or unable to carry out her duties before passing away). If Charles dies before her and before ascending to the throne (the sorrow of the Queen would most certainly kill her if such an unfortunate event happens), Camilla will be the Dowager (add all her titles Princess of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall etc.).

Upon Charles' accession Camilla will be Queen Consort.   Whatever title or style she chooses (Princess Consort is not a recognized titled and parliament has already stated that Camilla will be queen consort regardless of her personal wishes or even those of her husband) ; Camilla will have precedence and eminence over all women in the United Kingdom and Commonwealth. She will only be required to defer to her husband the King and nobody else. If she survives her husband she will be Dowager Queen or just Queen Camilla, ranking just behind the reigning Queen consort.

[amabel]

I think we did this already in another thread about the whole queen regent thing, while im on the fighting side of "he11 no" to Camilla being Queen regent, I dont have the energy to do it again.

how could she be queen regent????

[TLLK]

 

Queen Camilla could be a Queen Dowager but not a Queen Mother. This is obvious because Camilla is the stepmother of Prince William (King William V).

And I believe that the title was used to distinguish between the two Queen Elizabeths and Queen Elizabeth did not care for the term Queen Dowager.

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

Meant to say consort, was up too late and too little coffee. As far as I recall around the time of their wedding it was announced that Camilla would use not use the Queen Consort(?) title, much like she hasnt used the Princess of Wales title.

What will happen once things are set in motion we'll have to see.

[amabel]

The queen mother didn't like "queen mother" either but it was to distinguish her from QE II. I rather like Dowager myself, it has an implication of being an older lady who has power.
But I think that Camilla will be styled QUeen Consort, in spite of what was said 10 years ago....

[Trudie]

Camilla will become Queen Consort whether anyone likes it or not. Camilla doesn't use the Princess of Wales title because of it's association with Diana the mother of the future King and because of the past. Diana never will be associated with that title and Diana's popularity and reputation as the hardest working Princess of Wales will for ever overshadow Camilla and or future Princess of Wales though it was Camilla that brought down the marriage of The Prince and Princess of Wales and no one forgets that.

[LouisFerdinand]

Will Queen Catherine be called Queen Kate?   
Queen Kate vs. Queen Catherine: The royal name dilemma - today > news - The Royals - TODAY.com

[Curryong]

IMO the media will continue calling Kate Kate Middleton until she becomes Princess of Wales. They will then switch (incorrectly) to 'Princess Kate', I believe. When she becomes Queen Consort I think Kate will be referred to as 'the Queen' most of the time, though I think the media might well refer to her on official occasions as Queen Catherine. Here, whenever the Cambridges, or royals in general, come into the conversation (which is not very often) the Duchess of Cambridge is called Kate. I've never heard anyone call her Catherine, actually.

[TLLK]

I've only heard William refer to her as Catherine when he's giving a speech or when during interviews.

[Curryong]

^ I meant ordinary people in conversation here and in England seem to refer to the Duchess as Kate and I've never heard anyone call her Catherine.

Actually it appears it was interchangeable at one point. Someone spoke to her about this on an engagement when she was due to marry William, and she more or less stated that she answered to both. In biographies I've read she was known as Kate among school friends and other pals as she grew up.

It's said that her family called her Catherine when she was growing up but, in truth, I can't see a mouthful of a name like Catherine not being shortened in some way by family members. Catherine certainly sounds more regal but 'Kate' has stuck with people now and I would be surprised if it changes, honestly.

[royalanthropologist]

Queen Kate sounds so tabloidy. It somehow seems undignified. The same applies to princess Kate. In the UK, people tend to prefer their aristocratic titles to princely titles when they have both. So Prince Phillip is often referred to as DOE.

[TLLK]

^ I meant ordinary people in conversation here and in England seem to refer to the Duchess as Kate and I've never heard anyone call her Catherine

Sorry I misunderstood. I agree that I've never heard her called Kate in normal conversation. LIke you said @Curryong when the time comes they'll be called "the King" and "the Queen," by most people.

[LouisFerdinand]

Camilla will be Queen and not styled Queen Consort.   
The Reason Camilla WILL Be Queen And Not Styled 'Princess Consort' - Discover The Truth - YouTube

[TLLK]

Unless there is a drastic change I believe that they'll continue to be called HM Queen _______ as per tradition.

[TLLK]

The official British monarchy website has been updated with the order of succession, but there's been no changes made at this time for titles ie: William is still listed as the Duke of Cambridge.

https://www.royal.uk/succession   :crown: :happyuk:

There are some title changes that I see possibly happening in the coming weeks, months, year.

William and Family[/b]-Currently "Duke, Duchess, Prince, Princess of Cornwall and Cambridge" as well as the Scottish "of Rothsey" title. Likely change to " The Prince, Princess of Wales with the children adding "of Wales."

Edward and Family[/size]-Currently Earl, Countess of Wessex with James as Viscount Severn. Possible change to Duke, Duchess of Edinburgh with James becoming Earl of Wessex. I believe that Louise would remain Lady Louise Mountbatten- Windsor.

Sussex children are currently Master Archie and Miss Lillibet Mountbatten-Windsor. -The Letters Patent of 1917 would see them becoming HRH Prince Archie and HRH Princess Lilibet of Sussex as the grandchildren of the monarch in the male line. I am curious to know if their parents would want them to have the royal titles or will they do like Edward and Sophie and decline them for their children.

Also now that their father is king, wouldn't his sons now become The Prince William and The Prince Henry?  Charles' siblings Andrew would remain the Duke of York and Anne would likely retain the title Princess Royal until her passing.

Any thoughts on these possible or likely changes???

[wannable]

Roya Nikkhah, Royal Editor for The Sunday Times wrote a very interesting and lengthy article today.

Dr Craig Prescott, an expert in constitutional law, said: ''We are really in uncharted waters here, the Prince Harry situation is not something the law easily allows for. The idea of the second son of the King choosing a life away from royal duties is not something the law has thought about and I can imagine that Buckingham Palace would be concerned by that. The King had the chance to remove him with the counsellor of state legislation last year, but chose not to.''

Roya also added some gossip from two clashing sources from the 2 existing households; 1. Harry and Meghan will very soon have a Kensington Palace place/domicile in the UK. and 2. Roya's source at BP says it's not true.  Roya thinks it will happen, interesting she believes (I mean weighing her interviewed options) on source #1 than #2.  Anyway for those who are curious, IF it comes out to be true, it will NOT be Nottingham Cottage, this has been given to a senior staff member. It will very likely be next door to the POW's Apartment.


Here's the gossip part related to H counsellor of state and Charles not taking him or Andrew out.  His advisors told him to give his son a ''domicile'' in the UK

According to well-placed royal sources, courtiers have discussed leasing a property on the royal estate to Harry and Meghan to try to resolve the counsellor-of-state conundrum. One option understood to have been considered is accommodation at Kensington Palace, where the Prince and Princess of Wales have a home and their private office. They spend few nights there, having moved their family to Windsor.

It would also kill two birds with one stone

If Charles was to offer Harry the use of a property within the secure perimeter of one of the royal estates, it would resolve the grey area around his role as a counsellor of state and also help to address the issue of the Sussexes' security, which is subject to an ongoing legal challenge brought by Harry against the Home Office.

[Nightowl]

Seriously  does anyone really think Harry and Meghan would move back to the UK let alone to KP near William and Catherine?  I believe from what I see of Meghan never setting foot in the UK again as she knows how much she is disliked there (besides that was not what Meghan wanted when she met Harry, she played her game and got right
where she wants to be......Hollywood)..Harry, he goes by the seat of his pants in life.........no real thoughts on how his decisions will affect him and those around him or anyone else, he just does what he wants when he wants something without any thought whatsoever.  And Meghan had her sights set on a rich man when she came to the UK, boy did she latch onto a rich royal prince of all things....

[Curryong]

Seriously  does anyone really think Harry and Meghan would move back to the UK let alone to KP near William and Catherine?  I believe from what I see of Meghan never setting foot in the UK again as she knows how much she is disliked there (besides that was not what Meghan wanted when she met Harry, she played her game and got right
where she wants to be......Hollywood)..Harry, he goes by the seat of his pants in life.........no real thoughts on how his decisions will affect him and those around him or anyone else, he just does what he wants when he wants something without any thought whatsoever.  And Meghan had her sights set on a rich man when she came to the UK, boy did she latch onto a rich royal prince of all things....

I don?t know about ?latch on? to a rich royal Prince. The two of them have actually been married for four and a half years (together for over six years) and have two children together. If Meghan was that money hungry or crazy for a billionaire husband she would have passed on the bearing of any children and have been gone by now, considering what the two of them have faced together from the media.

[TLLK]

The post about Graham Norton's opinion on the Sussexes has been moved to this thread.

Team Sussex: The Sussex Family General Chat Part 1

[TLLK]

Roya Nikkhah, Royal Editor for The Sunday Times wrote a very interesting and lengthy article today.

Roya also added some gossip from two clashing sources from the 2 existing households; 1. Harry and Meghan will very soon have a Kensington Palace place/domicile in the UK. and 2. Roya's source at BP says it's not true.  Roya thinks it will happen, interesting she believes (I mean weighing her interviewed options) on source #1 than #2.  Anyway for those who are curious, IF it comes out to be true, it will NOT be Nottingham Cottage, this has been given to a senior staff member. It will very likely be next door to the POW's Apartment.


Here's the gossip part related to H counsellor of state and Charles not taking him or Andrew out.  His advisors told him to give his son a ''domicile'' in the UK

It would also kill two birds with one stone

Ooohh I wish that we could find an archieved version of this article!

Interesting that the King is not going to remove his son or brother at this point in time, however I wonder if he might simply replace them with Anne and Edward?

Having the Sussexes stay in the empty Apartment 1 seems like a practical solution for the rare times that the Sussex family are in the UK. Kensington Palace would provide a secure location for the family. This also gives Harry an opportunity to show his children where he grew up and provide them with the chance to learn about their British heritage.  Also it is close to Clarence House, so it would give Charles and Harry the opportunity to visit more easily.   Apartment 1 is the largest of the KP residences, so it will have plenty of space for the family, any staff and their security team.

As for the Wales family being next door. Keep in mind that their primary residence is now Adelaide Cottage.  KP's Apartment 1A is currently their office space and occasional place to spend the night. They're not likely to encounter the Sussexes if they were there.