The Tudors 1485-1603 Henry VII -Elizabeth I

cinrit · June 01, 2013, 12:01:03 PM

I haven't read any of the recent novels about Anne Boleyn. The last novel about her that I read was nearly 15 years ago (oh, how time flies!!), "The Secret Diary of Anne Boleyn". I tend to get most of my books these days from amazon.com, from the "used" lists. I've had great luck ... when the seller says the books is "good" or "very good" condition, it has been.

Cindy

Izabella · June 24, 2013, 05:44:25 PM

Interesting. I guess, She gets to keep her head. Has a son named Thomas. Who throws England (or keeps it ) in a state of turmoil like a bad narcissistic Roman emperor. Henry succumbs to diabetes, but how will they know? Being obese and having an ulcerated leg is a good guess. Still?! Must read to find out.... :lol: Thanks, Sandy!

HereditaryPrincess · June 28, 2013, 08:45:49 PM

I haven't read it but I'd like to. It sounds like an interesting read. :)

cinrit · January 26, 2014, 11:51:40 AM

With the exception of Catherine of Aragon, all of Henry VIII's wives were commoners. The 2nd Duke of Norfolk was Anne Boleyn's grandfather, and the 3rd Duke of Norfolk was her uncle. Personally, of all Henry VIII's wives, Anne Boleyn is my favorite.

Cindy

Eri · January 26, 2014, 12:20:53 PM

I just don't get why over hype their relationship she was a goner when he understood he couldn't get what he wanted form her he DID NOT love her and I doubt she was crazy about the old man either ...

cinrit · January 26, 2014, 01:06:38 PM

One reason she's made a big deal over is because Henry VIII formed the Church of England in order to annul his marriage to Catherine of Aragon. Also, without Anne Boleyn, England would not have had Elizabeth I, one of it's greatest monarchs. Henry finally got his legitimate son with Jane Seymour, and he became Edward VI, but he died at the age of 16.

Thanks for starting this thread, Eri. A very interesting subject. :flower3:

Cindy

Eri · January 26, 2014, 01:39:47 PM

^ He did not do that for Ann he did that because :

a. He wanted a son

b. He was sick having to answer to the Pope ( Henry liked to do as he pleased)

He did NOT do all of that because he was crazily in love with Ann LOL !!!

cinrit · January 26, 2014, 01:52:59 PM

He was definitely crazy in love with Anne. The fact that he wanted a son is part of it, but if it were for a son alone, he would have annulled his marriage to Catherine a few years before he ever met Anne. Have you ever read the letters that he wrote to Anne? :o :hehe: Henry was a romantic. Except for Anne of Cleves, he married all his wives for love.

Henry VIII liked getting his way, but he was a devout Catholic. His title, Defender of the Faith, was given to him by Pope Leo X, for having written a defense of the sacraments, which was dedicated to the Pope. Had it not been for his desire to annul his marriage to Catherine, he would have been content to bow to the Pope for the rest of his life.

On the other hand, if Catherine had given him a son, it's unlikely he would have had the marriage annulled. But if Anne had agreed, he'd have had her for a mistress.

Cindy

Eri · January 26, 2014, 02:39:18 PM

^ LOL !!! A tyrant like Henry a romantic? He beheaded her because she wouldn't give him a son ... that is all she was goof for (in his view) ... Ann was more like his middle age crisis the typical husband leaves wife of Years for younger girl story ... Henry turned hold and cold very fast ...

cinrit · January 26, 2014, 03:07:48 PM

Henry was only 32 when he became infatuated with Anne Boleyn. That's not middle-age. Was he a romantic? He was in love with all his wives, except for Anne of Cleves:

He married Catherine of Aragon when he was barely 18, he was head over heels for her.
He became infatuated with Anne Boleyn when he was 32 ... read some of his letters to her to determine if he loved her.
He married Jane Seymour when he was 44 ... he was buried with her (but then, she died before he could get tired of her).
He married Anne of Cleves when he was 49 ... no love match, this one. He said of her, "I like her not!" And Thomas Cromwell lost his
head over that contract.
He fell madly, crazy in love with and married Katherine Howard (a cousin of Anne Boleyn) the same year he annulled his marriage to
Anne of Cleves. He sobbed when he learned she'd cheated on him. She was also beheaded.
He married Katherine Parr when he was 52 ... she wanted to marry Thomas Seymour, but Henry was insistent that she marry him. He
died before he had a chance to tire of her, but there was one incident when he'd actually signed papers to send her to the Tower.

Cindy

Eri · January 26, 2014, 04:06:05 PM

^ Henry ran hot and cold pretty fast like you described ... too bad it's all about Ann he had incredibly interesting wives especially Katherine Parr ...

cinrit · January 26, 2014, 04:44:50 PM

Anne Boleyn stands out from the other wives, but there are dozens of books about all his wives, some all together and some books about each individual. Anne is most well-known because she was the first Queen to be beheaded, and because Henry VIII broke off from Rome to marry her. And because Elizabeth I was her daughter. Personally, I think Anne of Cleves was maybe the most interesting of Henry's wives, and probably the one with the most "street smarts".

Cindy

TLLK · January 27, 2014, 03:24:16 AM

IMHO I believe Anne of Cleves was happy to leave the Duchy of Cleves, but would have likely had some reservations about a man like Henry.

Of Henry's wives I'm partial to Catherine of Aragon and Anne of Cleves.

Eri · January 27, 2014, 08:06:04 AM

^ I am team Queen Jane some say she was submissive I say she was smart :lol: ... she is the only wife that was taken from him and he couldn't "break up" with and gave him a son so I believe he stayed partial on her all his life ...

cinrit · January 27, 2014, 12:34:16 PM

Jane was "lucky" in that she not only delivered a son (who didn't live very long, sadly), but she died before Henry could tire of her. There were stories that his eye was already beginning to wander while she was pregnant. Romantic that he was, Henry VIII was no sentimentalist. Neither was Jane, who knew that Anne would be killed and didn't lift a finger to try to save her.

I feel sorry for Katherine Howard. She was too young, too impetuous, and too loosely brought up. The Duke of Norfolk did her a great disservice by bringing her to court and putting her in front of the King.

TLLK, I agree ... I believe Anne of Cleves was happy to get out of Cleves, but she couldn't have been very happy when she finally saw Henry in the flesh, nor heard of his reputation.

Cindy

Eri · January 27, 2014, 02:30:41 PM

^ What could Jane do for Ann really? Die with her?

cinrit · January 27, 2014, 03:05:33 PM

^^ She couldn't have done anything. But she didn't protest, either, meaning she didn't care that much. Other of Henry's wives spoke up when they saw his injustices. It didn't change his mind, but at least it showed they cared. I think Jane was a lot more cunning than she seemed to be.

Cindy

Eri · January 27, 2014, 04:42:11 PM

^ Ann got what she deserved ( you live by the bed you die by the bed) given how she treated QUEEN Katherine of Aragon she acted horribly she wasn't exactly a woman's woman so I don't get why Jane should have done anything for her at least she wasn't rude to her like Ann was to Katherine ... Jane spoke her mind too that is why Ann's fate was reminded to her by Henry ( he knew how to end an argument with his wife) ...

Lothwen · January 27, 2014, 04:51:26 PM

Anne was certainly more brash and upfront about her dislike for Catherine, but at least she was honest about what she was after

Princessinwaiting · January 27, 2014, 04:52:04 PM

He was a mad man for sure.

Eri · January 27, 2014, 05:20:20 PM

He lived at a time where Kings were Gods on Earth to us he might look crazy but he wasn't he was just a guy who lived in his era ... with this I am not excusing or downplaying the horrible things he did I am just putting them in the contest of the times he lived in ...

Lothwen · January 27, 2014, 05:36:56 PM

Henry knew his claim on the throne was weak, and he needed a son (or so he thought) to help secure his dynasty. Remember, before Mary, no English Queen had inherited the crown

Eri · January 27, 2014, 05:41:13 PM

^ Poor Mary I blame Henry for all of it ... she was more subject to his cruelty than Elizabeth ever was ...

cinrit · January 27, 2014, 06:07:59 PM

Anne Boleyn was surely a handful. She spoke her mind, she was haughty, and she tended to bouts of hysteria. But the majority of historians, as well as her contemporaries, agree that she was innocent of the charges against her. Henry knew she was innocent, which is why he at least ordered a swordsman for her execution, which was swifter and more "merciful" than the ax ... which is something he didn't do for Katherine Howard, whom he knew was guilty of the charges against her. The only crime Anne Boleyn committed was not to have produced a son that lived ... and the fact that Henry was getting tired of her.

As for him living in his times ... I don't think so. When he was looking for a wife after Jane Seymour died, he was turned down by several noble women who were approached about marriage to him. One went so far as to say she'd rather be his mistress so that she could keep her head. Henry is as well-known as he is because he wasn't like the other monarchs of his time.

Elizabeth was also mistreated by Henry. The worst thing he could have done to her, he did ... he had her mother killed when she was a little more than three years old. Is it any wonder that Elizabeth I never married? When she died, it was discovered that she had a special ring that opened. On one side was a miniature painting of herself, on the other side was a miniature painting of Anne, her mother. She didn't forget....

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4javt1rs61rso3iso1_500.jpg

Cindy

Princessinwaiting · January 27, 2014, 07:28:27 PM

I Don't know much about them , just basic history :orchid: but even from that Henry seemed crazy :Lothwen: even for his time .