Princess Charlotte General Chat

Started by sara8150, May 02, 2015, 11:37:23 AM

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TLLK

Does anyone know why QEII waited years to bestow the title on Anne? Elizabeth's aunt Mary who was the last holder of the title had been gone for many years before Anne received it.

Trudie

^ Good question Tllk. The only reason I can think of is that The Queen is not one to bestow an honor just for the sake of bestowing it. Look how long it took for Anne, Andrew and Edward to be made Knights of the Garter and how it was never bestowed on Princess Margaret. Harry has served two tours in Afghanistan and still has not been made a Knight even with current vacancies.



amabel

Quote from: TLLK on February 22, 2016, 12:25:38 AM
Does anyone know why QEII waited years to bestow the title on Anne? Elizabeth's aunt Mary who was the last holder of the title had been gone for many years before Anne received it.
She was probably held back by the fact that Anne's never been very popular.  I think it was done to honour her for her Save the Children work

TLLK

Quote from: Trudie on February 22, 2016, 02:54:34 AM
^ Good question Tllk. The only reason I can think of is that The Queen is not one to bestow an honor just for the sake of bestowing it. Look how long it took for Anne, Andrew and Edward to be made Knights of the Garter and how it was never bestowed on Princess Margaret. Harry has served two tours in Afghanistan and still has not been made a Knight even with current vacancies.
She has chosen to delay those honors when you consider how quickly her predecessors would confer them in the past. I do expect that Harry will have it someday though. I wonder if Charles will follow his mother's example when it comes to titles/honors in the future.

amabel

i think that in today's world,  the King/Queen doesn't want to be seen just handing out honours because they are usually done or the people are related to her.. so she waited with Anne till there was something she could say that A had done... I'd say that Chrles will do the same.

Curryong

Quote from: amabel on February 22, 2016, 08:23:57 PM
i think that in today's world,  the King/Queen doesn't want to be seen just handing out honours because they are usually done or the people are related to her.. so she waited with Anne till there was something she could say that A had done... I'd say that Chrles will do the same.

^ Yes, a bit different to Queen Victoria whose first child Vicky became Princess Royal when she was a newborn.

Trudie

Quote from: amabel on February 22, 2016, 08:23:57 PM
i think that in today's world,  the King/Queen doesn't want to be seen just handing out honours because they are usually done or the people are related to her.. so she waited with Anne till there was something she could say that A had done... I'd say that Chrles will do the same.

I hate to keep pointing this out but Charles cannot bestow the title Princess Royal on his Granddaughter. I have researched the title and the title Princess Royal is within the gift of the Sovereign for their eldest daughter besides safe to say Anne may survive Charles reign anyway but the only way Charlotte can receive the title if A. When Anne passes on and B. Her Father is King.



Curryong

^ Yes. I agree. In the last two hundred years at least the only females to become the Princesses Royal have been the eldest daughter of monarchs. Charlotte will get her turn. William may not become king for another quarter of a century or more. After Anne's death it will come to Charlotte if she wants it.

TLLK

Thank you @Trudie and @Curryong for your research on the matter. So if the title is to be bestowed upon Charlotte it would be William's choice.

Trudie

^ Exactly and even though William loves to pretend he is normal he will most probably want the highest possible title for his daughter.



TLLK

This discussion makes me wonder if the Prince of Wales title will continue for the Heir? Does Wales want the title to continue? Would a female heir be known as Princess of Wales or will it continue to be reserved for the spouse of a male heir? Or will Duke of Cornwall be the new heir designation title?

The monarchies in Spain, the NL, and Belgium have full primogeniture and have now designated the titles for their heirs to be used by either gender. So we know have a Princess of Asturias (Spain), Princess of Orange (NL) and Duchess of Brabant (Belgium).

Curryong

Quote from: TLLK on February 23, 2016, 08:06:46 PM
This discussion makes me wonder if the Prince of Wales title will continue for the Heir? Does Wales want the title to continue? Would a female heir be known as Princess of Wales or will it continue to be reserved for the spouse of a male heir? Or will Duke of Cornwall be the new heir designation title?

The monarchies in Spain, the NL, and Belgium have full primogeniture and have now designated the titles for their heirs to be used by either gender. So we know have a Princess of Asturias (Spain), Princess of Orange (NL) and Duchess of Brabant (Belgium).

^I have thought about this over the years TLLK. I have read that, even with limited Welsh devolution and self rule, the title for William could be subjected to a vote in the Welsh Assembly. Awkward if they say no, which is why I think it will just be given, without any pomp or ceremony such as Charles underwent. It will be some time before the issue of a female heir and possible Princess of Wales is discussed. Unless something ghastly happens to George it would only occur if he has a daughter as a first born.

As we know, unlike some Continental monarchies the BRF has produced boys as first borns in the last three generations. I think the last time it was discussed was when the present Queen reached her majority. The King, her father, was very much against Elizabeth being given the title Princess of Wales as he felt that this should be reserved for the wife of the heir. His advisers concurred. However, as we all know, it's going to be  a very different world that George will be facing as King and if he does have a girl first  I'm sure all the possibilities will have been thrashed out!

TLLK

I agree that this has all been taken care of before George was even thought of by his parents.  :lol:

FanDianaFancy

When Ch  is  King, W and K  will have those titles  of PCharles and Camila  have  now. 
PC  will be King  Charles and Cammill  will be  WILL BE  QUEEN
Queen Consort, still QUEEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Queen  is  in there.

amabel

Quote from: FanDianaFancy on March 12, 2016, 04:35:43 PM
When Ch  is  King, W and K  will have those titles  of PCharles and Camila  have  now. 
PC  will be King  Charles and Cammill  will be  WILL BE  QUEEN
Queen Consort, still QUEEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Queen  is  in there.
yes but waht's this got to do with Charlotte?

LouisFerdinand

Quote from: Curryong on February 23, 2016, 03:36:15 AM
^ Yes. I agree. In the last two hundred years at least the only females to become the Princesses Royal have been the eldest daughter of monarchs. Charlotte will get her turn. William may not become king for another quarter of a century or more. After Anne's death it will come to Charlotte if she wants it.
@Curryong, you mention that the title Princess Royal, after Princess Anne's demise will come to Charlotte if she wants it. Please explain.


Curryong

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on March 13, 2016, 03:40:58 AM
Quote from: Curryong on February 23, 2016, 03:36:15 AM
^ Yes. I agree. In the last two hundred years at least the only females to become the Princesses Royal have been the eldest daughter of monarchs. Charlotte will get her turn. William may not become king for another quarter of a century or more. After Anne's death it will come to Charlotte if she wants it.
@Curryong, you mention that the title Princess Royal, after Princess Anne's demise will come to Charlotte if she wants it. Please explain.

^ Well, it's not really compulsory for Charlotte to accept the styling if her father King William offers it. Anne may live another 30 years or more and it isn't the custom to install a new Princess Royal immediately after the death of her predecessor anyway.

We don't know what sort of a person Charlotte will be as an adult, perhaps a middle aged adult, and we don't know whether William will be the sort of monarch to insist on his children having these sort of titles.

It's just my opinion but I think that this sort of thing is all up in the air really, (the Britain of 20 odd years from now will be so different and the way its royals will operate will probably be quite different, especially if William decides that the core British royal family will consist of himself, Kate, George and spouse and that's it, in the way that many Continental monarchies operate now.)

amabel

I don't see why William should operate the way that Continental royals do and If Charl wants it, as the eldest daughter of the King, I don't see why she should not have the honour..  If Princess Grumpy has been given it (and accepted it for all her grouchy dislike of "Royal fuss", ) I hope that Charlotte will be a likeable and useful person who should be given it

FanDianaFancy

Quote from: amabel on March 12, 2016, 10:35:50 PM
Quote from: FanDianaFancy on March 12, 2016, 04:35:43 PM
When Ch  is  King, W and K  will have those titles  of PCharles and Camila  have  now. 
PC  will be King  Charles and Cammill  will be  WILL BE  QUEEN
Queen Consort, still QUEEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Queen  is  in there.
yes but waht's this got to do with Charlotte?

Posting  too  fast and not  finishing.  Char  will be  Prince Royal, but  that  is  a  long time away  when  W is K. What, 30 years  from now.  QEII, dead. King Charles and  The Princess  Royal, Anne  will  have  to  be dead.

TLLK

Quote from: Curryong on March 13, 2016, 03:57:51 AM
Quote from: LouisFerdinand on March 13, 2016, 03:40:58 AM
Quote from: Curryong on February 23, 2016, 03:36:15 AM
^ Yes. I agree. In the last two hundred years at least the only females to become the Princesses Royal have been the eldest daughter of monarchs. Charlotte will get her turn. William may not become king for another quarter of a century or more. After Anne's death it will come to Charlotte if she wants it.
@Curryong, you mention that the title Princess Royal, after Princess Anne's demise will come to Charlotte if she wants it. Please explain.

^ Well, it's not really compulsory for Charlotte to accept the styling if her father King William offers it. Anne may live another 30 years or more and it isn't the custom to install a new Princess Royal immediately after the death of her predecessor anyway.

We don't know what sort of a person Charlotte will be as an adult, perhaps a middle aged adult, and we don't know whether William will be the sort of monarch to insist on his children having these sort of titles.

It's just my opinion but I think that this sort of thing is all up in the air really, (the Britain of 20 odd years from now will be so different and the way its royals will operate will probably be quite different, especially if William decides that the core British royal family will consist of himself, Kate, George and spouse and that's it, in the way that many Continental monarchies operate now.)
I wonder if we'll see an end to regional titles that are often given to the heirs-to-the-throne ie:Princess of Austurias, Duchess of Brabant, Prince of Wales for a simpler designation ie: Crown Prince in the coming years.

As for the title Princess Royal I'd almost given up on it being bestowed upon Anne until her mother chose to give it to her!

amabel

I really don't know why she did.  Anne used to be one of the RF's greatest liabilities, and IMO she's still noting to boast of. I do rather like territorial titles rather than "Crown Prince", it goes back OT a country's history...

Curryong

^^^ Although I do think that the BRF will follow its Continental cousins and change its composition in the next couple of reigns I can't see the title of Prince of Wales disappearing into the mists of history unless the Welsh nationalists cause a dreadful stink about it when it's given to George. (There'll probably be some protests when William receives it but nothing BP can't handle.) I don't think there'll be ceremonies connected with the granting of the title though. If these centuries old titles like Prince/Princess of Asturias go it will chip away at more of the tradition of monarchy and so I don't think they will be abolished, but that's just my opinion.

TLLK

Thank you for your replies @amabel and @Curryong. :)

Like @amabel I like the old territorial titles instead of Crown Prince(ss). Princess of Orange, Princess of Asturias, and Duchess of Brabant are lovely titles IMHO.

I agree @Curryong that we're not likely to see a repeat of Charles' investiture ceremony in the future when William becomes the Prince of Wales. (Hopefully William will not have to wear that hideous coronet!) :blink:

Curryong

Quote from: TLLK on March 19, 2016, 01:32:00 AM
Thank you for your replies @amabel and @Curryong. :)

Like @amabel I like the old territorial titles instead of Crown Prince(ss). Princess of Orange, Princess of Asturias, and Duchess of Brabant are lovely titles IMHO.

I agree @Curryong that we're not likely to see a repeat of Charles' investiture ceremony in the future when William becomes the Prince of Wales. (Hopefully William will not have to wear that hideous coronet!) :blink:

^ Apparently Lord Snowden designed the coronet, which was very much of its time, as well as much of the surrounding theatre set, er I mean, the ceremonial chair, canopy etc. Even then there were vague murmurings of an invasion by angry Welsh nationalist  protestors but they stayed away. If you look at the film of it now it looks like another age and not something out of the rebellious swinging 1960's either. It harked back to Edward's ceremony before World War One in spirit really.

LouisFerdinand

Charlotte Seymour Spencer, Countess Spencer (1835-1903) was the spouse of John Spencer, 5th Earl Spencer. She would have been a member of Princess Diana's family, the Spencers.   
Do you believe that Princess Charlotte of Cambridge was named after Countess Charlotte Spencer?