Is Kate a Role Model?

Started by PrincessOfPeace, April 23, 2014, 04:24:41 AM

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cinrit

^^ The taxpayer doesn't pay for her lifestyle, so no worries there. :thumbsup:

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

Princessinwaiting

Quote from: cinrit on April 24, 2014, 04:29:02 PM
^^ IMO, that's all very harsh.

Cindy
Yes it is . .
I did not go to a Catholic school but I am Catholic and was brought up with very strict values , none if which I really follow today I think it's a sorry excuse to push something in your children in order to prove another person's lifestyle is wrong it's not only against anything feminist it's also going lead them to want to grow up and get the hell out of your old fashioned home that's what I did  :wellduh:  don't think your children won't grow up and remember you shoving things down their throats they will and they will hold grudges most of the time and swear to never raise their children that way ...
Btw I don't believe most of what a certain somebody says but  .....    . ....it reminded me of my close minded school  :blahblahblah:

PrincessOfPeace

What's with all the stay at home mum stuff? Kate has the same workload as any of the British Royals of her generation. Its too vague to say she is a senior royal with out qualifying the statement.
All the Queens children and grandchildren are senior royals, with her grandchildren coming ahead of most of her children in succession but not precedence.
It is 100 percent clear that the Queen's own children are the 'working royals' of her reign with grandchildren playing a supporting role and this seems obvious to me.

There is no precedent anywhere for having adult grandchildren so high up in succession. The last time it happened was during Queen Victoria's reign.
For some this means they should be working royals. The Queen's and the Prince of Wales' income is independent of how many working royals there are or how many engagements they carry out.

If the Queen had no grandchildren or if Harry carried out 1000 engagements a year the Sovereign Grant will still be the same 15 percent, meaning no one is on a salary, so Kate isn't receiving a £150.000 pay cheque from the government.

If Kate's generation of royals were all 'full-time' and Kate wasn't doing her share I'd say people on this board have an argument but Kate does as much or more than her peers in the BRF.
Since her wedding she is the second most active royal of her generation. She raises £millions for charity has given the House of Windsor a new heir. I can't speak for the Queen but I'm sure she is tickled pink.

I find it all very disingenuous to isolate Kate without taking all the royals of her generation into context.

sandy

Kate has had a lot of time off, she does below the minimum and by no means has a "full" work schedule and it doesn't even reach "part time." Plus there are vacations and shopping that she can have time to do. Considering that William's grandmother is 88 , his grandfather is in his nineties and his dad is 66, would not a grown man and woman in their thirties be expected to take up the slack of the older generation? I don't see any rule book that these too should sit back and do nothing because he is "only"  heir to the heir. The man is two heartbeats away from being King and he doesn't know that time will come. If some are satisfied with his slacking off and her slacking off so be it, but to me it seems selfish of them in their prime to watch the oldsters carry off the work without helping out.

Limabeany

 :goodpost:
Quote from: sandy on April 24, 2014, 03:07:44 PM
Nobody knows how much or how little she worked there. She was on call for William and I doubt her parents would make her stay and work. Lots of flexibility.

Working before marriage would  not have done Kate any harm, she is supposed to work as a royal and could have developed better work habits.

Children grow up just fine in a dual career household. Working women should not be made to look like ogres.

Kate is supposed to be a working royal and I doubt George will become a delinquent if she does more with her work time.
She certainly was willing to leave him to go on vacation for a week, why not to work a few hours a day???
"You don't have to be pretty. You don't owe prettiness to anyone. Not to your boyfriend/spouse/partner, not to your co-workers, especially not to random men on the street. You don't owe it to your mother, you don't owe it to your children, you don't owe it to civilization in general. Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked 'female'." Diana Vreeland.

cinrit

There are no written rules, as far as I know.  But there is precedence.  It is ancient and it is understood by all the Royals.  William has stated in an interview (with Katie Couric, maybe?) that they've asked the Queen to slow down and let them help, and she's said "no".  What more can they do?

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

Limabeany

Find their own work to do as Every Royal Before Them Has Done... Elizabeth's charities aren't the only ones in England and he is not taking them all or even a large amount when she dies, perhaps a few, she has her interests and agenda and William will have his if he ever decides to work which is what these grown adult man and woman in their thirties should be doing...   :shrug:
"You don't have to be pretty. You don't owe prettiness to anyone. Not to your boyfriend/spouse/partner, not to your co-workers, especially not to random men on the street. You don't owe it to your mother, you don't owe it to your children, you don't owe it to civilization in general. Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked 'female'." Diana Vreeland.

TLLK

^^^ Well he could stage a coup and banish Granny and Grandpa to Balmoral/Sandringham then the problem would be solved.

I don't envy the position that HM, the PoW and DoC are in right now. Everyone is "stuck" in their current role and likely will be for some time.

Limabeany

Or he could work on his own charities and take on a few more?  :yesss: A coup, I think the thought of Liz dying and him having to take on more responsibilities and work more when that happens is responsible for the thinning hair.  :lol:
"You don't have to be pretty. You don't owe prettiness to anyone. Not to your boyfriend/spouse/partner, not to your co-workers, especially not to random men on the street. You don't owe it to your mother, you don't owe it to your children, you don't owe it to civilization in general. Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked 'female'." Diana Vreeland.

TLLK

#59
^^^IMHO the last thing that the senior royals want is for the focus to go off of HM, DoE, PoW and Camilla after they have spent over a decade trying to rebuild "Brand Windsor." Keep showcasing that the heir-to-the-heir is  competent and ready then you risk requests that Charles could be "skipped." The last UK Government poll still doesn't have numbers that show the vast majority of people are in favor of him being the next King. (38% believe it should go to William which is quite a significant number.) There are still legitimate concerns about him being too involved in politics which is a difference between HM and the PoW. (Personally I don't believe Charles should be skipped over in favor of his son and I don't think that they want that outcome either. There have been cases in the past where this has happened in other monarchies, but this doesn't warrant it IMHO) Also HM appears to want her children in the forefront during her reign.

PrincessOfPeace

#60
^^^ I agree 100 percent. We've already seen headlines during this tour describing The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and Prince George as the 'new Royal Family'

The last thing the Queen and Charles want is to turn around and make the Cambridges the public face of the Royal Family and add fuel to the fire when William is still only the heir to the heir or the 'understudy's understudy' as Robert Jobson called him


sandy

#61
Quote from: TLLK on April 24, 2014, 06:24:11 PM
^^^IMHO the last thing that the senior royals want is for the focus to go off of HM, DoE, PoW and Camilla after they have spent over a decade trying to rebuild "Brand Windsor." Keep showcasing that the heir-to-the-heir is  competent and ready then you risk requests that Charles could be "skipped." The last UK Government poll still doesn't have numbers that show the vast majority of people are in favor of him being the next King. (38% believe it should go to William which is quite a significant number.) There are still legitimate concerns about him being too involved in politics which is a difference between HM and the PoW. (Personally I don't believe Charles should be skipped over in favor of his son and I don't think that they want that outcome either. There have been cases in the past where this has happened in other monarchies, but this doesn't warrant it IMHO) Also HM appears to want her children in the forefront during her reign.

So they can't work because people will think they are the "face of the royal family." I see this as just another excuse made for them They are supposed to be ambassadors of the Queen and it is not the Borgias where people try to take over. Working more does not mean they have ambitions to oust the Queen and make people forget Dad and Stepmother.

And this brand stuff does include William, Kate and Harry as they were on the balcony during the Jubilee.  This is the first time that I heard that their working more is a "threat." I think it is more of a threat if they don't work and let the oldsters do the work. And isn't William supposed to be trying to learn. If he just sits back and does  little or nothing he will be woefully unprepared.

It doesn't matter if the press says Charles should be "skipped." That is just not going to  happen. And I see this as another excuse for William not working. And WIlliam has made it clear he does not want to take over. So by working more Junior is a threat to Daddy and Grandmother. I seriously doubt that. 

Double post auto-merged: April 24, 2014, 07:09:48 PM


Quote from: cinrit on April 24, 2014, 06:09:53 PM
There are no written rules, as far as I know.  But there is precedence.  It is ancient and it is understood by all the Royals.  William has stated in an interview (with Katie Couric, maybe?) that they've asked the Queen to slow down and let them help, and she's said "no".  What more can they do?

Cindy

I don't think laziness is a "rule" for the royals.  William does very little as it is. I seriously doubt Elizabeth would turn down William doing more work. Another excuse.

Double post auto-merged: April 24, 2014, 07:11:28 PM


Quote from: TLLK on April 24, 2014, 06:15:17 PM
^^^ Well he could stage a coup and banish Granny and Grandpa to Balmoral/Sandringham then the problem would be solved.

I don't envy the position that HM, the PoW and DoC are in right now. Everyone is "stuck" in their current role and likely will be for some time.

Huh! That would be the last thing William would ever do in a trillion years. He is workshy and he relies on various excuses made by his fans and the list of excuses is growing every day.

William is not "stuck" if he wanted to expand his charity work I doubt the Queen would stop him. He just is workshy.

Double post auto-merged: April 24, 2014, 07:14:37 PM


Quote from: Princessinwaiting on April 24, 2014, 04:50:49 PM
Quote from: cinrit on April 24, 2014, 04:29:02 PM
^^ IMO, that's all very harsh.

Cindy
Yes it is . .
I did not go to a Catholic school but I am Catholic and was brought up with very strict values , none if which I really follow today I think it's a sorry excuse to push something in your children in order to prove another person's lifestyle is wrong it's not only against anything feminist it's also going lead them to want to grow up and get the hell out of your old fashioned home that's what I did  :wellduh:  don't think your children won't grow up and remember you shoving things down their throats they will and they will hold grudges most of the time and swear to never raise their children that way ...
Btw I don't believe most of what a certain somebody says but  .....    . ....it reminded me of my close minded school  :blahblahblah:

The point is Kate is not a role model. In the real world, women develop themselves and need job skills to help and support their families and provide a future for their children. Kate does the bare minimum of work and uses George as an excuse not to work but when it comes to fun George is with the nanny.

Rebound

I think some people aren't being very realistic about the condition of the workplace for women today. Women make far less money than men, and are disproportionately employed in low wage jobs. The cost of living has risen much higher than wages, so it is impossible to keep up with the cost of living, even with two income workers.

If a higher income family wants to improve monetarily, they often must follow the man's career because he makes more money and has to work long hours, and the woman finds whatever job she can. If they have children, it is difficult to find affordable child care.

I realize this is not Kate's position, but stay-at-home mothers should not be put down to make a negative point about Kate. All women make choices based on the needs and welfare of their families, and generally make sacrifices out of love, not because they are lazy. I've heard that argument about myself, and it couldn't have been more wrong or hurtful.

sandy

It all depends on the couple. Sweeping statements cannot be made about earning power of a couple or each one in the marriage. There are cases of a man getting laid off and the wife earning the money. Sometimes the husband has to "follow" the wife. This happened during the Financial Crisis a few years ago with reports of the husband losing his job and the wife supporting the family. And some couples DO earn more than enough to support the family. Nobody is putting down stay at home mothers--I see more putting down of women who work and how it is "bad" for the children. The couple earn money to pay for children's medical costs, education expenses, etc.  Kate married into an institution where the royal wife is supposed to pull her weight and she is a senior royal. Also, her husband is not exactly a ball of fire in the work dept. either so both appear to be workshy which is not just a debate about whether women should work or not.

Rebound

Of course it all depends on the couple, but in general women earn less than men and the cost of living is rising faster than wages. These are facts women can't afford to ignore. Young people today will not stay in the same jobs they start with, and must learn to plan their university studies wisely to cope with many different positions.

I did say this is not Kate's issue. For her, the issues have been and continue to be how to accommodate the needs and circumstances of her family--her WHOLE family, including the other royals. I don't see either her or Will being, as you say, work shy. I think they are supporting the needs of their families, and these may be needs we don't see or understand, just as we don't understand other families' needs. It's a situation they have to judge by themselves, just as we judge our own situations.

Limabeany

#65
Quote from: Rebound on April 24, 2014, 08:06:50 PM
I realize this is not Kate's position, but stay-at-home mothers should not be put down to make a negative point about Kate. All women make choices based on the needs and welfare of their families, and generally make sacrifices out of love, not because they are lazy. I've heard that argument about myself, and it couldn't have been more wrong or hurtful.

Stay at home moms are not put down to make negative points about Kate, but they certainly are used to excuse Kate's, who is NOT a housewife and never will be, barely working in her thirties. Since Kate's work history up to her thirties has been nonexistent to dismal, and her child is only 8 months old, this choice, in her case, is simply a matter of convenience and preference, this has been a pattern her entire adult life and for a public servant, it is not a good one, I don't see why people who defend Kate always and unfailingly bring housewives and stay at home moms as an argument in Kate's defense when, by virtue of marriage, she is neither...  :shrug:

Double post auto-merged: April 24, 2014, 09:44:54 PM


Quote from: Rebound on April 24, 2014, 09:34:11 PM
For her, the issues have been and continue to be how to accommodate the needs and circumstances of her family--her WHOLE family, including the other royals. I don't see either her or Will being, as you say, work shy. I think they are supporting the needs of their families, and these may be needs we don't see or understand, just as we don't understand other families' needs. It's a situation they have to judge by themselves, just as we judge our own situations.
The problem with that theory is that Kate has never held a full time job in 32 years, if this had started after she married...  :blank:
"You don't have to be pretty. You don't owe prettiness to anyone. Not to your boyfriend/spouse/partner, not to your co-workers, especially not to random men on the street. You don't owe it to your mother, you don't owe it to your children, you don't owe it to civilization in general. Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked 'female'." Diana Vreeland.

PrincessOfPeace

Quote from: Rebound on April 24, 2014, 09:34:11 PM
Of course it all depends on the couple, but in general women earn less than men and the cost of living is rising faster than wages. These are facts women can't afford to ignore. Young people today will not stay in the same jobs they start with, and must learn to plan their university studies wisely to cope with many different positions.

I did say this is not Kate's issue. For her, the issues have been and continue to be how to accommodate the needs and circumstances of her family--her WHOLE family, including the other royals. I don't see either her or Will being, as you say, work shy. I think they are supporting the needs of their families, and these may be needs we don't see or understand, just as we don't understand other families' needs. It's a situation they have to judge by themselves, just as we judge our own situations.

:goodpost: I agree completely

Trudie

 I like Kate I think she is  smart and beautiful but, as I have said previously as a Private citizen Kate could be held up as a role model a dutiful daughter, wife and mother who is the epitome of what is known as family values. As a wife who married into the BRF a very public family who's role is very high profile in setting the tone for work ethics charity fundraising, hands on work etc. IMO the only role models currently in the BRF are HM, The DOE, The POW and The Princess Royal. If I were to hold anyone up as a role model it would have to be Princess Anne who not only raised well balanced children but her hands on work with Save the Children is legendary for her it was not all Tiara's and ballgowns. :thumbsup:



FanDianaFancy

I  like to bring it in the MIDDLE.

You guys have so mmany conversations going on.

HOUSEWIFE. Catherine, Duchess of  Cambridge, etc., is NOT A STAY at home mom and housewife.
She  is  not married to Billy Wales.
Her name is not Kaitlyn  Wales.

C,DofC, has duties  per her position. A postition in her country.  To her subjects.
The trade off  for  their  FINANCIAL SUPPORT  via  taxes  and other ways  is  for  her  to support them in charities, causes, bring awareness  to  issues, etc. Represent  THEIR country, hers and theirs, aboard.

C,DofC, has  a  network of people to guide her in the mundane, housewife things in life: cooking, cleaning, childcare, errands of going to the gorcery, bank, dry cleaners, etc.
She has  doctors  on call  ASAP 24/7, nannies, drivers, bodyguards, gardeners, deocroators, etc. Anything   she wants is  at her her disposal.

She can be a rolemodel  for her work in her country, but  it  is  a rather  thin diary  of work.
---------------

As for her youth  and young adulthood, she can be a role model in that her  parents  are ,were proud of her. She  made  good grades. Got active in the right kinds of extracuricular activities like sports.
As a young adult, mid adult, she  carried herself  with some  class. No scandals. Stupid antics.
-------------------------------
As a wife and mother, not that  any  young girls should really  be thinking about  at their age, yes she is a role modle. She loves her husband. He loves her  . She  is a good mother. They  have a good  , tight  family unit with respect , etc.
----------------
If  adult women want to  see K, DofC as a role model, fine.
------------------------
Stay-at-home  moms are great!!!!
Fine. If that is what works for you and your family, then do it.  It is the right way and only way  for her and her family. HOWEVER, one must  be prepared   to have, UNLESSTHEY ARE AND HEIRESS  and/or MARRIED TO An HEIR,  the  educational background, talents, drive, work history before marriage, or during in charity work, to  find employment if the husband  should  leave.  Die. Get  laid off.
Ex. Laura  Bush, a Middle Class  girl was a school teacher. She married George Bush. She retired  from that career. If  he would  have died, she  would have had  for her girls, his  trust...support some kind of way  set by his parents.
If he would ahve  divorced her, at least she  would have child support and  alimony.
I am talking about long before he was president.
I picked her  because she is a woman of modern  times.
--------------------
If a woman wants to work outside of the home  and be a wife and mother too, FINE. GREAT!!!! What  works  for her and her family is BEST!!!! It  is the right way and the  only way for her and hers.
Ex. Jenna Bush  chooses  to work  outside  of  being  a wife and mother.
------------------------------------------------

TLLK

^^^Thank you PoP.

I should have clarified that the 38% number came from a government poll taken in summer 2013. 42% want the PoW to follow HM with the remaining numbers made up of those who would like the monarchy to end and those who just didn't know.

IMHO HM, the DoE and PoW would likely want to see that 38% become a part of the group who wants Charles to succeed HM. Yes by tradition he will become King when her reign comes to an end, but people can and will share their opinions on the subject. To promote the understudy's understudy doesn't seem like the right plan when the PoW's and Camilla's popularity could still use some help. I do believe that the PoW and Camilla are very ready to take on their future roles though.

FanDianaFancy

This %  want that and that %  wants this.
Thing is  , none of it matters.
it  is not up for vote.
Providing the BRF  has not done somethong illgeal  or  something  jsut  too much for the people  to  bear  as in the Edward -Wallis  case, it  is  as  it will be.
With the BRF, C is king next. Camilla The  Rottweiler  WILL BE  titled/styled QUEEN CAMILLA.
That will be in about  8-10 years.
QEII  dying...when?
Next up, King William and Queen Catherine in 15-20 years.

(Queen Consort-formal term.)

TLLK

^^^ But it does give an indication of whether or not the BRF has regained its popularity with the people who will ultimately decide if they wish to keep a monarchy or not. :)

Lady Adams

I'm so glad I don't have a daughter. I do have a son, a furry puppy, and he can look up to Lupo. Whatevs. :teehee:

Look, I've been observing this thread as it's gotten very heated  :catfight: and it's rehashing the same arguments made over and over (most recently in the Marie Antoinette thread), but now with a lens of feminism now.

Some of us believe Kate has done very little work; others believe that Kate's primary work is as a wife and mother. They're opinions; they're valid... can we all just move on?  :hug:

(PS: there's new photos of Princess Estelle and Princess Leonore in the Swedish thread. I swear the cuteness will make everyone feel better  :flower: )
"To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, and be nothing." --Elbert Hubbard, American writer

good221

Quote from: Princessinwaiting on April 24, 2014, 04:50:49 PM
Quote from: cinrit on April 24, 2014, 04:29:02 PM
^^ IMO, that's all very harsh.

Cindy
Yes it is . .
I did not go to a Catholic school but I am Catholic and was brought up with very strict values , none if which I really follow today I think it's a sorry excuse to push something in your children in order to prove another person's lifestyle is wrong it's not only against anything feminist it's also going lead them to want to grow up and get the hell out of your old fashioned home that's what I did  :wellduh:  don't think your children won't grow up and remember you shoving things down their throats they will and they will hold grudges most of the time and swear to never raise their children that way ...
Btw I don't believe most of what a certain somebody says but  .....    . ....it reminded me of my close minded school  :blahblahblah:
quote] You may teach your kids they way you want and that is your own problem, as for me the way the will be raise will be own path I am not going to shoving things down their throats just the hell of it but it will be to help them make better decision or better path in life. As I said before kate is no role model and for any  mothers out there  that put her high above the rest that prove there is   something wrong  with their mental  judgments. their is nothing WOW or  Jaw Dropping she had done for the past 32 yrs. of age. No I don't means getting married, having a baby or getting a college degree they are now more woman who have accomplish all that before 25 so there is nothing so magical about all that.  So let stop trying to justify all her action for the past 32yrs because non of them is worth the glory or praises to be a role model. P.S  last month people magazine said Kim Kardashian was a role model for girl, Now Kate wales is a role model and I am so  Disappointed that kids now set the bar so low for their future picking these women next up Paris Hilton or Lindsay lohan .this is utterly tearful and sad that the future generation is going down hill full force :fuming:

sandy

#74
Quote from: TLLK on April 24, 2014, 11:10:46 PM
^^^Thank you PoP.

I should have clarified that the 38% number came from a government poll taken in summer 2013. 42% want the PoW to follow HM with the remaining numbers made up of those who would like the monarchy to end and those who just didn't know.

IMHO HM, the DoE and PoW would likely want to see that 38% become a part of the group who wants Charles to succeed HM. Yes by tradition he will become King when her reign comes to an end, but people can and will share their opinions on the subject. To promote the understudy's understudy doesn't seem like the right plan when the PoW's and Camilla's popularity could still use some help. I do believe that the PoW and Camilla are very ready to take on their future roles though.

Polls are taken all the time and none will ever keep Charles from the throne (only his death or incapacity would be the cause). And no way would William want to displace his father--he runs from work not towards it.

Hiding WIlliam away will decidedly not make C and C more popular and it could well have the opposite effect.

William and Kate are supposed to work for the royal family and also be the Queen's ambassadors and assist her.And C and C are not getting any younger and two able bodied people in their thirties should definitely help out.

To me this is another excuse for their laziness. I don't see hiding them out as the right plan. They do very little anyway and if they stepped up they would not "outshine" C and C. Charles is the one who does most of the work and Camilla does the minimum. Charles is not Superman and can't do it all by himself.