Diana and Charles honeymoon

Started by Duch_Luver_4ever, November 22, 2017, 06:09:25 PM

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Duch_Luver_4ever

Someone has posted in another thread something which made me think of this, although its been kind of mentioned before. It was said of C&D's Caribbean trip where Diana was photographed pregnant, there was lots of fun and affection in the pictures (and they wernt aware they were being snapped) that maybe they should have done this for their honeymoon.

What is everyones ideas about the reasons for the honeymoon going the way it did, and not more along the lines of the "traditional" honeymoon which would be more like the above mentioned Caribbean trip.

With so many British colonies,dependencies and current and former commonwealth destinations both in the worlds tropical areas, they had a variety of areas to choose from.

My own thoughts are that with Charles trip to Oz, the wedding planning and whatever other trips he had in the 12 months prior to the wedding, he was looking more to have a vacation from his workload more than having a stretch of uninterrupted time with his new wife in a secluded location, which we could speculate was or was not as a result of his heart having divided loyalties, or his inexperience in changing his bachelor ways.

There also was the issue of state functions like the dinner with the Sadats, while one can see why the grey suits would like to economize by having Brittania do double duty as stat host as well as honeymoon houseboat, perhaps it might have been better to just fly to a single location like Necker island, etc. what do you think?
"No other member of the Royal Family mattered that year, or I think for the next 17 years, it was just her." Arthur Edwards, The Sun Photographer, talking about Diana's impact.

Curryong

I doubt that Diana was asked about honeymoon locations, whether she'd like to stay in the one location etc etc. To the BRF the Britannia represented escape. It always had done, and other BRF members had been on the Yacht for their honeymoons before the Wales. (Notably on Anne's honeymoon there had been remarkably high and stormy seas for days, a portent perhaps.)

The BRF in those days had remarkable tunnel vision about their year and important events. For instance June= Ascot and a house party and carriage ride along the course, August = Balmoral, Xmas= Windsor or Sandringham and no inlaws of course, --- and the honeymoon followed this template.

'You want to get away for a nice honeymoon, here take the Britannia, it will be perfect', would be the Queen's reasoning, and fond of it as she was she probably couldn't imagine anything nicer. And don't forget, the Press was already crazy about Diana and peddling the love affair for all they could get so the Yacht offered a great measure of privacy.

We know what Charles's vision of his honeymoon was (and don't forget he'd grown up with the Yacht as an extra home) and that was painting, reading and discussing what he'd read with his bride and perhaps instructing her on it all. It wasn't Diana's cup of tea but I don't believe that dawned on him until they were actually at sea, when all the dreams of long discussions on the philiosophies of Jung over meals just evaporated.

Just as August meant Balmoral, so the Caribbean offered to the BRF lots of warm weather, private little atolls, friendly folk, in spite of some independence movements and therefore a measure of security perhaps a single European location couldn't offer.

You will note that I don't include Charles in much of this honeymoon planning. That is because, aside from the plans to paint etc, I believe he took the choice of route of the Britannia and therefore the location of his and Diana's honeymoon from the recommendations of his older relatives. Not that I think that Necker would have been any better as a choice. Charles would still have taken his books and paints there, and the boredom with each other might have been twenty times worse.

The Sadats just came on board the Britannia for lunch as a courtesy gesture. It was probably arranged by the Foreign and Colonial Office when the Britannia route was decided. Charles as the heir to the British throne was obliged to host the lunch, just like his wedding it was a matter of obligation to the duties of his position. It wasn't a State occasion, a banquet or anything. I believe Diana became tongue-tied (not being used to foreign dignitaries) and kept mentioning the fruit the Sadats had brought as a gift which was whipped up into a fruit salad dessert for the four of them.

How the honeymoon rolled out was as a result of their two very different personalities, writ large when they were near each other for any length of time, in spite of swims on warm tropical beaches and frolics in the waves.

Nightowl

If I had  had a honeymoon like that then we should have a very long talk or divorce would be next....... :no:

royalanthropologist

Even then, the honeymoon must re-emphasized the fundamental and fatal incompatibility of the couple. Charles had his own ideas and she had her own. Neither was willing to compromise so it got off to a bad start. Meanwhile Charles was still pining for the woman he really loved. He found Diana tedious, needy and boring. She found him stuffy, inattentive and uninspiring.

Contrast that with the honeymoon for the second wedding. Go to Birkhall with your new wife and sister in law. No Caribbean but things go smoothly. A location does not make a honeymoon. It is the relationship that does. You could go to mars for all we care but if you don't love one another, it will not be a great honeymoon.
"In the past, people were born royal. Nowadays, royalty comes from what you do"...Gianni Versace

Curryong

Now Royal, I don't have an ulterior motive by asking this, honest! but I'm curious,

Put yourself in Charles's shoes. Despite inner reluctance you have just married a young woman who is years your junior, and you know nothing really of her likes and dislikes (because you haven't asked or she hasn't volunteered, or both) and you are now sitting on the quarter deck of the good ship Britannia as it sails away from Britain into the sun (hopefully.)

You have brought your painting things, (though you know Diana doesn't draw or paint,)  and your weighty books. How would you, as Charles, plan a programme for say a week at a time that would bring enjoyment to your young bride, engage her and bring both of you much closer together (besides the obvious, of course!) What would you talk about and what would you do?

royalanthropologist

I think I would not be in that position because I am very unlikely to ever accept a proposal from someone who I get hints is not into me and is only marrying me because Daddy insists.  :hehe:

But on a serious note: I don't think Charles put much effort or thought into planning the honeymoon. I suppose that just like he had been brought up, he expected Diana to fit in with his lifestyle and make life as comfortable for him as possible because he was the star of this particular show.  That was not what I consider to be a honeymoon but I am so far removed from that lifestyle. 

And yes I can totally understand why a young girl would be confused by it all. It was more like a state occasion with occasional private moments for the obligatory sex before Charles went back to his normal habits.

I know from experience that it can be very awkward talking to someone that is into you but you are not that interested. My default position is extreme politeness until they get a hint. Charles just feigned a bit of interest and went back to his own stuff.
"In the past, people were born royal. Nowadays, royalty comes from what you do"...Gianni Versace

Curryong

It's interesting, I think, as to whether Diana ever got to know about Prince Philip's note (or presumed ultimatum) to his son during the time she was married and living with Charles, and if she did, when.

royalanthropologist

To be honest, I think Diana suffered a series of increasingly serious psychological and emotional blows right from the proposal. It was a gradual realization of things getting worse and worse by the day. I think that is why it took her such a long time to realize that Charles was never really in love with her and was never going to love her, at least not in the way he loved Camilla.

By then she had suffered so much mental torture, doubts, hopes, dreams and setbacks which scarred her for life. There is nothing more frustrating than a lover who blows hot and cold. You cannot really break it off because it it seems that just at the moment he is gone forever, he comes back again and there is Harry. It is a drip, drip of false starts with each blow doing more damage than the previous one. At least if he is brutal throughout, you can call it a day and know it was hopeless. Charles is the kind of man to keep you hoping but never quite committing.

I suppose Charles was convincing in private when he turned his attention to courtship and proposal. This is what Diana had dreamed off and it was happening. She was going to marry her prince forever. Everything was lined up correctly. She was young, beautiful and of "the right stock". Charles came across as a sensitive and kind older man who would protect her forever. What could possibly go wrong?

As she unwrapped her new gift, it did not seem quite shiny. She then started to make a few compromises in order not to disappoint everyone, not least herself. "Ok I will ignore the cuff links, ok I will tolerate the passionate calls. Ok I will put up with the long absences, Ok I will believe him when he unconvincingly tells me that Camilla is the past". She was getting married to this man although it would appear he was not all he seemed. There was another woman who knew so much and controlled so much it seemed. No matter: she would be sweet, obliging and beautiful. Charles said he had given her up and Diana thought it would be fine.

Then bit by bit it all started getting revealed in all its ugliness. The proposal had not been entirely voluntary, papa had suggested it. Charles was pining for Camilla and Camilla was not going away. The friends and family all knew but kept quiet just to get her to the altar and produce those heirs. On her wedding she knew that Camilla was surveying it all with some cynicism and contempt.  There was nothing Diana could do. Maybe she could stop Camilla's son being part of the wedding party of even her attending the wedding part...but deep down Diana knew these were Pyrrhic victories. Charles was hooked Camilla and there was nothing she could do about it. She tried to fight to distract him and keep him focused on her but he just kept slipping away.

That is what I think happened. Phillips letter came much, much later as she was surveying the ruins of her marriage and thinking what she could have done better or how they could have done this to her.
"In the past, people were born royal. Nowadays, royalty comes from what you do"...Gianni Versace

sandy

#8
Charles proposed, Prince Philip was not CHarles' ventriloquist. It was Charles own decision to propose. Why is this man made to be seen as a helpless baby to defend him. It makes Charles friends and family look all the more evil condoning a marriage where another woman was involved in it. Shame on them.



Quote from: royalanthropologist on November 23, 2017, 10:46:11 AM
I think I would not be in that position because I am very unlikely to ever accept a proposal from someone who I get hints is not into me and is only marrying me because Daddy insists.  :hehe:

But on a serious note: I don't think Charles put much effort or thought into planning the honeymoon. I suppose that just like he had been brought up, he expected Diana to fit in with his lifestyle and make life as comfortable for him as possible because he was the star of this particular show.  That was not what I consider to be a honeymoon but I am so far removed from that lifestyle. 

And yes I can totally understand why a young girl would be confused by it all. It was more like a state occasion with occasional private moments for the obligatory sex before Charles went back to his normal habits.

I know from experience that it can be very awkward talking to someone that is into you but you are not that interested. My default position is extreme politeness until they get a hint. Charles just feigned a bit of interest and went back to his own stuff.

What about blaming Charles for being the one to propose to her? If he had not proposed then DIana could not have accepted. He admitted later he did not love his first wife and preferred Camilla

I doubt Charles when he proposed told Diana I am only marrying you because my father insists on it. She would have run for the hills. And what sort of a man blames others for his own choices. Prince Philip told him that if he did not want to marry her to drop her. And it was common sense advice. Not forcing "wimpy" Charles to marry Diana. Charles was 32 not 12.

What sort of a man does not have give and take in his marriage and just expects the woman to automatically be wildly interested in Van Der Post on the honeymoon?

Double post auto-merged: November 23, 2017, 01:06:39 PM


Quote from: Curryong on November 23, 2017, 10:52:53 AM
It's interesting, I think, as to whether Diana ever got to know about Prince Philip's note (or presumed ultimatum) to his son during the time she was married and living with Charles, and if she did, when.

Seward claims Diana found out a few years into the marriage.

Double post auto-merged: November 23, 2017, 01:08:08 PM


Quote from: royalanthropologist on November 23, 2017, 06:46:53 AM
Even then, the honeymoon must re-emphasized the fundamental and fatal incompatibility of the couple. Charles had his own ideas and she had her own. Neither was willing to compromise so it got off to a bad start. Meanwhile Charles was still pining for the woman he really loved. He found Diana tedious, needy and boring. She found him stuffy, inattentive and uninspiring.

Contrast that with the honeymoon for the second wedding. Go to Birkhall with your new wife and sister in law. No Caribbean but things go smoothly. A location does not make a honeymoon. It is the relationship that does. You could go to mars for all we care but if you don't love one another, it will not be a great honeymoon.

Camilla was Charles' mistress for years. Different scenario than for the first wife. Yes, a relationship makes the honeymoon, Charles married DIana knowing he did not love her. But maybe Charles is a great actor, those photos on the Caribbean showed plenty of PDA with Diana.

Duch_Luver_4ever

Quote from: royalanthropologist on November 23, 2017, 11:48:27 AM
To be honest, I think Diana suffered a series of increasingly serious psychological and emotional blows right from the proposal. It was a gradual realization of things getting worse and worse by the day. I think that is why it took her such a long time to realize that Charles was never really in love with her and was never going to love her, at least not in the way he loved Camilla.

By then she had suffered so much mental torture, doubts, hopes, dreams and setbacks which scarred her for life. There is nothing more frustrating than a lover who blows hot and cold. You cannot really break it off because it it seems that just at the moment he is gone forever, he comes back again and there is Harry. It is a drip, drip of false starts with each blow doing more damage than the previous one. At least if he is brutal throughout, you can call it a day and know it was hopeless. Charles is the kind of man to keep you hoping but never quite committing.

I suppose Charles was convincing in private when he turned his attention to courtship and proposal. This is what Diana had dreamed off and it was happening. She was going to marry her prince forever. Everything was lined up correctly. She was young, beautiful and of "the right stock". Charles came across as a sensitive and kind older man who would protect her forever. What could possibly go wrong?

As she unwrapped her new gift, it did not seem quite shiny. She then started to make a few compromises in order not to disappoint everyone, not least herself. "Ok I will ignore the cuff links, ok I will tolerate the passionate calls. Ok I will put up with the long absences, Ok I will believe him when he unconvincingly tells me that Camilla is the past". She was getting married to this man although it would appear he was not all he seemed. There was another woman who knew so much and controlled so much it seemed. No matter: she would be sweet, obliging and beautiful. Charles said he had given her up and Diana thought it would be fine.

Then bit by bit it all started getting revealed in all its ugliness. The proposal had not been entirely voluntary, papa had suggested it. Charles was pining for Camilla and Camilla was not going away. The friends and family all knew but kept quiet just to get her to the altar and produce those heirs. On her wedding she knew that Camilla was surveying it all with some cynicism and contempt.  There was nothing Diana could do. Maybe she could stop Camilla's son being part of the wedding party of even her attending the wedding part...but deep down Diana knew these were Pyrrhic victories. Charles was hooked Camilla and there was nothing she could do about it. She tried to fight to distract him and keep him focused on her but he just kept slipping away.

That is what I think happened. Phillips letter came much, much later as she was surveying the ruins of her marriage and thinking what she could have done better or how they could have done this to her.

:goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost: One of the best posts describing things, I really enjoyed it, @royalanthropologist

I also liked @Curryong  point about Charles and the planning of the honeymoon. There was likely some of planning by committee and assumptions by the RF about what would be enjoyable probably came into play.

It was likely a sign of the times, that Diana's wishes would not be foremost in the planning of it. To me its interesting to factor in if Charles choice of activities and the relative crowded conditions of the yacht vs a secluded holiday were to not be stuck having to be around her all day, and how much the honeymoon was more for Charles a vacation from the tours and activities of the year vs carving out a block of time to be alone with his young, beautiful wife. 
"No other member of the Royal Family mattered that year, or I think for the next 17 years, it was just her." Arthur Edwards, The Sun Photographer, talking about Diana's impact.

sandy

They went to Broadlands first as a royal "tradition" the Queen and Prince Philip honeymooned there. But rather perversely Mountbatten lent Broadlands to Charles and Camilla in the early seventies so Charles could sow wild oats.

I think CHarles had only  a "philosophic" view of marriage and did not consider the human elements.

royalanthropologist

Quite shockingly I agree with @sandy's last post. Charles failed to consider Diana as a human being with hopes, thoughts, feelings and expectations. He treated her as if she was just another of his props. Now if you are paying me well or giving me a prestigious job, I can put up with that. However, it is a very different proposition if I am married to you.
"In the past, people were born royal. Nowadays, royalty comes from what you do"...Gianni Versace