Kind of early, but question on kids...

Started by Duch_Luver_4ever, December 02, 2017, 07:36:12 PM

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Kritter

Quotecourtesy titles of Viscount and Lady Louise....

Those are considered titles.

Eri

^ It is reported that Edward was promised his father's Title ... it's ironic ... one Day his son might end up having a grander and a more significant Title than Harry can dream of ... I really hope Chuck goes through with his promise to Edward ...

Kritter

^ Charles is not good on promises as he has proven in the past.

Eri

^ If he promised so to his father and that is his father's wish I am sure he will do good on that promise ... Edward deserves it for being the better son out of the three ... he better flip if Harry is treated special ... Harry deserves nothing more or nothing less than what Edward and Anne got ... Chuck also promised a slimmed down Monarchy so he better make good on that promise also ... Harry dreams of living in Africa ... I say let him ... see how much Megan wants him then ...

TLLK

#54
Quote from: amabel on December 16, 2017, 12:05:18 PM
They do not have or rather do not use Royal titles.  They are not considered as Prince and Princess, even though as grandchildren of the monarch they are automatically entitled to be Prince and Princess.  But they've chosen for the children to just have the courtesy titles of Viscount and Lady Louise....
Harry's children will be great grandchildren of the monarch.. so theyre not automatically Prince and Princess...
Very true @amabel-It will be interesting to see what happens when the couple starts their family. There is always the possibility that HM will issue a new Letters Patent for Harry's children but then again they couple might wish to follow Edward and Sophie's example. :xmas15:

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There is speculation that Charles would like to "slim" down the working pool of BRF members with his reign. This may mean limiting the number of HRHs and Princes/Princesses among his descendants. Currently among the European royal families the title of Prince/Princess is limited mostly to the  children of the monarch's sons though Sweden is an exception.  The Netherlands has restricted that to just the children of the heir to the throne with the monarch's other's grandchildren being titled with Count/Countess.

sandy

#55
Quote from: Eri on December 16, 2017, 12:39:09 PM
^ If he promised so to his father and that is his father's wish I am sure he will do good on that promise ... Edward deserves it for being the better son out of the three ... he better flip if Harry is treated special ... Harry deserves nothing more or nothing less than what Edward and Anne got ... Chuck also promised a slimmed down Monarchy so he better make good on that promise also ... Harry dreams of living in Africa ... I say let him ... see how much Megan wants him then ...

Charles made nasty comments about Edward. Like when there was a terrorist threat and everybody else but Edward was there, Charles made a dismissive comment about Edward becoming King.

Harry deserves titles and perks befitting of the second son, and he is well above Edward in line of succession. Even if he did not marry Miss Bonas. His wife Meghan will get titles and rank of Duchess and the HRH when married to him.

Harry will not live in Africa with Meghan. He is living at Kensington Palace.

Charles made it plain Harry would be part of his slimmed down monarchy when Harry stood on the balcony with Charles, Camilla, the Queen, Kate and William at the Jubilee. The tots can't do royal duties so unless there are no child labor laws, Harry will do work for the scaled down monarchy.

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Quote from: Eri on December 16, 2017, 12:29:31 PM
^ It is reported that Edward was promised his father's Title ... it's ironic ... one Day his son might end up having a grander and a more significant Title than Harry can dream of ... I really hope Chuck goes through with his promise to Edward ...

Edward's son will be a minor royal and so will his sister Louise. They will be comparable to the Phillips title or no title. Unless Edward son's marries an heiress presumptive like Philip did, he will not have any significant role nor be "ahead" of Harry's future children. Though you may not wish it, Harry's children will have titles.

TLLK

#56
Quote from: Eri on December 16, 2017, 12:29:31 PM
^ It is reported that Edward was promised his father's Title ... it's ironic ... one Day his son might end up having a grander and a more significant Title than Harry can dream of ... I really hope Chuck goes through with his promise to Edward ...
IMO It's significant now because of the current title holder, however it wouldn't be more significant than other older and more often granted titles held by royal dukes in the past ie: Clarence,Cambridge, Sussex etc... Edinburgh's relatively new and has only been issued three times since the 18th century.

The most important royal dukedoms are Lancaster and Cornwall but also significant-York which has been given to the monarch's second son for centuries since Edward IV granted it to his second son Richard. After the royal dukedoms would be  Norfolk as the premier dukedom in the UK.

amabel

Quote from: TLLK on December 16, 2017, 11:14:06 PM
IMO It's significant now because of the current title holder, however it wouldn't be more significant than other older and more often granted titles held by royal dukes in the past ie: Clarence,Cambridge, Sussex etc... Edinburgh's relatively new and has only been issued three times since the 18th century.
True Edinburgh is not really any kind of "special title".  It is only important to the queen because Its  Philip's title.. and I think at the time of Ed's wedding, when the RF was in a PR low, she didn't want to give Edward a dukedom, in case it set off any more criticism of the RF in the press.  So she gave him the Earl of Wessex which was really quite an odd title, and said that he would in due course be Duke of Edinburgh.  But that doesn't mean that the children will use their prince titles at a later stage.
ANd Harry is in a rather similar positon to Edward, he's a younger son and even if he's a working royal, wont be as important, now that Kate has 2 children and will soon have 3...

sandy

No, Harry is the second son like Andrew is. Edward was the third son and down further in "status."  Kate's children cannot work until about 20 years of now factoring in their education. Harry needs to work, the tots can't work now.

Eri

I think Liz will blow everyone's mind and Harry will get what Edward got ... let's analyze ... the problem with Edward was there were no Dukedoms left he basically was tolled to make up a Title for himself ... with Harry it will be the same not many Dukedoms he can take ... as for his children ... no way they will be treated as Princes , Princesses ... that would be absurd as that was an issue even for George ...

Curryong

Well, we'll see on the wedding day won't we, Eri. As for no Dukedoms left, Harry is likely to get Sussex or Clarence or the Queen can do as Victoria did for her sons and give a new territorial title  if she wishes. And you know very well, or should by now, that Edward got an Earldom because he will inherit his father's Dukedom one day.

Some isolating,  :lol:  as Harry remains close to the Cambridges, has double dated with Eugenie and Jack and his family are paying for the wedding, as they did with the wedding of William and Kate!

Eri

^ Yes we we'll see ... personally I think if they won't keep the promise to Edward no way should Harry get a Dukedom ... that would be absurd ... I seriously can't see Harry get anything Edward didn't given how this wedding is being treated ...

amabel

#62
Quote from: Eri on December 17, 2017, 03:16:17 PM
I think Liz will blow everyone's mind and Harry will get what Edward got ... let's analyze ... the problem with Edward was there were no Dukedoms left he basically was tolled to make up a Title for himself ... with Harry it will be the same not many Dukedoms he can take ... as for his children ... no way they will be treated as Princes , Princesses ... that would be absurd as that was an issue even for George ...
nonsense.  the queen can choose any title. These are not Dukedoms with land and estates attached, they are just titles, marks of seniority.
She didn't give Ed a Dukedom because (as I've said repeatedly) the whole Edward wedding was low key, as the RF were not that popular at the time.. and (b) she problaby wnted the Edinburgh title to go to one of Philips sons, and that was the best way of doing it...
There are several dukedoms that have been used before, that Harry can take, Sussex, Clarence, Kendal.. and she can choose somethtig else... it is essentially just a name iwht a royal connextion.
As for its being an issue about George beig a prince it was never in doubt. He woudl not have teh title automatically becuase in law he is the queen's great grandson in the male line....not her son or grandson, who would have the title Prince automatically.  But it was never likely that he woudl be left not a prince..
As Harry is going to be a working Royal, his children will almost certianly made Prince/ess,


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Quote from: Eri on December 17, 2017, 04:00:05 PM
^ Yes we we'll see ... personally I think if they won't keep the promise to Edward no way should Harry get a Dukedom ... that would be absurd ... I seriously can't see Harry get anything Edward didn't given how this wedding is being treated ...
what does that MEAN???  The wedding is being treated the same as any other royal wedding.  It is not as big as Willaims or Charles', because Harry is a second son..


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Quote from: Kritter on December 16, 2017, 12:20:12 PM
Those are considered titles.
They are not Royal titles, Viscount is a noble title.  Lady is a courtesy title for the daugthers of Dukes, Marquises and Earls....

sandy

Quote from: Eri on December 17, 2017, 03:16:17 PM
I think Liz will blow everyone's mind and Harry will get what Edward got ... let's analyze ... the problem with Edward was there were no Dukedoms left he basically was tolled to make up a Title for himself ... with Harry it will be the same not many Dukedoms he can take ... as for his children ... no way they will be treated as Princes , Princesses ... that would be absurd as that was an issue even for George ...

Why was it an issue for George? Or Charlotte for that matter? I think Harry's children will be princes and princesses. Why wouldn't they be? It doesn't matter if he did not marry an aristo. Kate's not an aristo herself.

wannable

Perhaps it's because William and Kate's children are and will always above Harry in the line of succession, and it they are emulating the Queen and vying for 4, well Harry and his kids will slip further down.

And since there's the alleged sliming down the monarchy. Who knows, I guess we will find out a few days or same day of wedding date the peerage title, if any.

I don't think there is any monarchy worldwide with so many titled people related to the sovereign as in the UK. They stay with their lower prince, princess, lord, lady.

The Wessex future dukedom will be like the Kents, nobody are interested.


TLLK

#65
QuoteWhy was it an issue for George? Or Charlotte for that matter? I think Harry's children will be princes and princesses. Why wouldn't they be? It doesn't matter if he did not marry an aristo. Kate's not an aristo herself.

It actually had to do with the way the Letters Patent had been written and not the mother's place in society. Had the Letters Patent been followed then only the eldest son of the Prince of Wales' eldest son would have been titled as "Prince ______." If those LPs been followed then Charlotte had been the first child she would have been known as Lady Charlotte Windsor.

Because the law of succession had been changed to disregard male primogeniture and  allow the first child of either gender to be the next in the line of succession, new Letters Patent were written specifically for the Cambridge baby.

Queen Issues Letters Patent To Make Royal Child ?Princess? If Girl ? Royal Central

QuoteToday, it has been announced that Her Majesty The Queen has issued a special letters patent confirming that the first child of the Duke and Duchess Of Cambridge, if it?s a girl, will be an HRH and a Princess, clearing up the confusion from the 1917 Letters Patent which would see only the eldest son (if there is one) of the Duke and Duchess hold the title of Prince.

The Queen has taken the opportunity to issue this special order after the succession to the crown bill has now been put into motion.

Before this special order was given, the 1917 Letters Patent decreed that only the first son of the son of the Prince Of Wales would hold the style of Royal Highness and Prince, meaning otherwise, the child would have just been ?The Lady?. This was always the intention to issue this order for The Queen as this child will be King/Queen one day and to not give it a title would almost seem to be denying it its dignity.

At this point in time we don't know what QEII will plan to do for any future children for Prince Harry and Meghan. :snowflake:

amabel

I think it is a fair guess that the queen will want them to be Princes/ss, she is pretty traditional.  at the time of his marriage Edward was't planned to be a working royal, and he was the 3rd son and 4th child, and there were plenty of royals on te working roster, and there was the fact that the RF weren't that popular.  So as his children were unlikey to be "working", I think it made sense for them to not use Prince titles. 
But Will and Harry, while their children don't automatically get prince titles, are both goig to be working royals and sons of the Monarch... so I think the queen would want them to have the dignity of Prince/ss.. and if in 20 or so years time, they are not interested in royal work and want a fairly normal life, tehre's nothing to stop them getting ordinary jobs, and calling themselves by their surname and leading a fairly quiet life.. just using their titles on formal occasions.

Eri

#67
^ And Edward is what? The postman? Edward IS the SON of the Monarch and IS A WORKING Royal ... he better flip if Harry is treated special ... Harry better show the humility his uncle and aunt showed or he will enter Andrew territory ... not many will like his children having Titles ... they won't be working Royals either ... that is absurd ... Willy will have THREE children ... NO way should Harry's children be treated as anything else as the Aristos they will be ... by the way ... Edward has always been a working Royal and by the way during his marriage the two spoiled brats weren't working Royals and didn't plan to be ... or I would consider them to be now ... Edward works more than they do ...

amabel

Edward has not always been a working royal, he had his business interests andit was only when he and Sophie made a massive hash of them, ending in losing massive amount of money, that the queen got him doing full time royal duties.
Wiliam and Harry have not been full time working royals in the past, but William has now moved on to full time royal work, gradually phasing out his other job.. and Kate has been doing more, except when pregnant.  (and I recall a lot of people knocking HER for not being a full time working royal)...
Harry will start to undertake full time royal work now that he is getting married and Meghan will also move into the same job.
And its up to the queen to decide what titles Harry's children should have and I'm sure that as a traditionalist she will want them to be Prince and Princess....

Eri

^ She was a traditionalist when the best of her three sons got married also ... Edward and Anne showed humility because they knew their place and have great press and respect by the public for it ... Harry better follow their example or his future will be very grim ... I have never heard of the tradition the Monarch grands her grand grand children Titles but not her grandchildren by the way  :blink: ...

Kritter

^ Harry could leave the Monarchy & still not face a grim future.     :nurse:

dianab

the children of Margaret also dont have titles (and she was sister of monarch)... i think harry's children will be the same

amabel

#72
Quote from: Eri on December 18, 2017, 10:02:12 AM
^ She was a traditionalist when the best of her three sons got married also ... Edward and Anne showed humility because they knew their place and have great press and respect by the public for it ... Harry better follow their example or his future will be very grim ... I have never heard of the tradition the Monarch grands her grand grand children Titles but not her grandchildren by the way  :blink: ...
eri this is nonsense  Anne has not "shown humility" she ha generally been considered arrogant, rude and not popular..  She has become better liked because she worked fairly hard but never really top of the list for popularity..
I don't know what you mean about the Monarch giving titles. Her grandchildren in the male line will have the title Prince automatically, as Harry and William did from birth, because that's the law.  Great grandchildren DONT have the title automatically, so the queen has granted it to Pss Charlotte..
Prince Mic of Kent is   a prince because his grandfather was the king but his son is only Lord Frederick Windsor..

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Quote from: dianab on December 18, 2017, 10:36:45 AM
the children of Margaret also dont have titles (and she was sister of monarch)... i think harry's children will be the same
They are not tentitled to Royal titles because as a woman Margaret does not pass her rank down to her chlldren

sandy

#73
Quote from: Eri on December 18, 2017, 09:34:25 AM
^ And Edward is what? The postman? Edward IS the SON of the Monarch and IS A WORKING Royal ... he better flip if Harry is treated special ... Harry better show the humility his uncle and aunt showed or he will enter Andrew territory ... not many will like his children having Titles ... they won't be working Royals either ... that is absurd ... Willy will have THREE children ... NO way should Harry's children be treated as anything else as the Aristos they will be ... by the way ... Edward has always been a working Royal and by the way during his marriage the two spoiled brats weren't working Royals and didn't plan to be ... or I would consider them to be now ... Edward works more than they do ...

Edward will never be ahead of Harry in line of succession nor expected to do as much royal work as Harry. He did not stand on the balcony during the Queen's Jubilee but Harry did. No matter what, Edward is lower down in line of succession than Harry and William. That's the way it is. Edward would not show humility if he carped about Harry being ahead of him. Harry's future children will be well ahead of Edward's children in line of succession. IT does not matter if William has 3 or 20 children they need to grow up before they can do any royal work. Harry is doing this now. George can't carry on royal duties now unless it counts going to school.

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Quote from: wannable on December 18, 2017, 01:46:06 AM
Perhaps it's because William and Kate's children are and will always above Harry in the line of succession, and it they are emulating the Queen and vying for 4, well Harry and his kids will slip further down.

And since there's the alleged sliming down the monarchy. Who knows, I guess we will find out a few days or same day of wedding date the peerage title, if any.

I don't think there is any monarchy worldwide with so many titled people related to the sovereign as in the UK. They stay with their lower prince, princess, lord, lady.

The Wessex future dukedom will be like the Kents, nobody are interested.



Kate may well want to stop after this one. She had a more severe case of the "morning sickness" this time around. I don't think the two are "competing" with the Queen's number of children. It would be a silly reason IMO to bring children into the world as sort of a "competition."  Kate herself came from a family of three and may want that for herself and does not care how many the Queen had.

The little ones can't do royal work for a while now. They don't instantly get up and do royal duties as tots. Harry has to take on the work now since they can't. When they grow up they will do more but that will not be for a while yet.

wannable

#74
So at one point the spares and extras, like Edward were relevant (aprox. a relevancy life span of 25 years tops, as tots will be age 25) when Charles kids were tots, once the tots came of age and graduated from University and the younger from Military, the spares and extras of the Queen become a nuisance to the Sovereign Grant and DOL, as they aren't " seen " working, aka picture taking from the royal press pack for the commoners to read/see in the e-papers (internet). Charles and his grown children with their foundations are the news, but when William's tots become of age, same thing will happen to Harry.

Perhaps that is why Charles alleged sliming of the Monarchy (emulating their European counterparts), and the Queen passing already the baton in major areas of her responsibilities. I am sure HM and Charles have discussed many things that will possibly change in time.