Diana's True Love, by Her Closest Friend

Started by cinrit, October 15, 2013, 11:59:03 AM

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Kate

I agree with Sandy regarding Camilla.. Had Camilla been a true honest feeling person, she would have moved off, once Charles became engaged!.I don't believe that Diana was an "angel" by any means. However, I do believe that she was an innocent upon entering the marriage. After witnessing her husbands mistress having such a hold over Charles, Diana became a pupil of " the game", whereas Charles and especially Camilla were the teachers of the "Game".
Their experience in manipulating, lying and with the support of their mutual friends (leaving Diana out) Diana honed the skill very well...IMO, only against her husband and his mistress!

Limabeany

 :notworthy: :notworthy: :goodpost: :notworthy: :notworthy:
Brilliantly put!
"You don't have to be pretty. You don't owe prettiness to anyone. Not to your boyfriend/spouse/partner, not to your co-workers, especially not to random men on the street. You don't owe it to your mother, you don't owe it to your children, you don't owe it to civilization in general. Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked 'female'." Diana Vreeland.

SophieChloe

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me

amabel

Quote from: Kate on October 31, 2013, 10:18:38 PM
as Charles and especially Camilla were the teachers of the "Game".
Their experience in manipulating, lying and with the support of their mutual friends (leaving Diana out) Diana honed the skill very well...IMO, only against her husband and his mistress!

I think that Diana was no stranger to lying either or to manipulation.  She managed to carry on affairs with more than one man, and  at least one married man with such skill that the press didn't find out til she lost her head and pursued him with phone calls.  She was able to get O HOare to leave his wife.  If it was wrong for Camilla to keep up an affair with Charles wasn't it wrong for Diana to have an affair with Hoare and get him to leave his wife?  Did she really think that it awas OK to do that, because her marriage had failed?  Don't you think that she might have felt "I was hurt when my marriage went wrong and when Camilla spent too much time iwht my husband causing him to neglect me, so I am not goig to do that to another woman?"

Limabeany

She did that after Charles and Camilla were done spitting her out, let's not pretend she was the one who got married with a liver on the wings...
"You don't have to be pretty. You don't owe prettiness to anyone. Not to your boyfriend/spouse/partner, not to your co-workers, especially not to random men on the street. You don't owe it to your mother, you don't owe it to your children, you don't owe it to civilization in general. Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked 'female'." Diana Vreeland.

cinrit

There's a special dispensation that says it's okay to break up a marriage if someone broke up yours? 

(According to Sarah Bradford's biography [which I was encouraged by some at this forum to read, as it being highly accurate] as a child, Diana had a "reputation for lying":

"She had a strong streak of fantasy and self-dramatization in her make-up, and as a child had a reputation for lying: one day on the school run, a local vicar's wife told her: 'Diana Spencer, if you tell one more lie, I'll put you out of the car.'  Even her brother Charles  Spencer later agreed that as a child she had a tendency to lie."  Page12, Sarah Bradford, Diana )

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

amabel

Well I think that was just childish silliness, but I think she was quite good at telling lies and manipulating, when she was older and it was more serious.  She and Gilbey discuss how she's going to pretend that she has to go to London for back treatment,  so that she can meet him, and she was clearly no strange to marital deceptions...
If she did indeed "learn this" from Charles, you might say that she surpassed her teacher.  She managed to have quite a few relationships that didn't get into the press until she over played her hand.  The press weren't aware of the Hoare affair till she pursued him with the phone calls, and it became a police matter.  She was with Khan for a while witout the press getting hold of it. 
And I agree, the fact that she felt that Camilla had destroyed HER marriage by being in touch with Charles in the early days and sleeping wit him later, is hardly an excuse for her doing the same to another woman.

cinrit

That, from Sarah Bradford's book, was only the first reference.  There are references on several other pages, easily found in the index, of other examples, when Diana was an adult and separated from Charles.  I didn't want to type them all.

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

amabel


cinrit

Without going back and re-reading each one, I'd say "exaggerations of certain events".  In the Index, it's listed as "lying and embroidery of facts - pages 12,75,,223, 278-9".  I suppose most of us tell at least little white lies in our lifetimes.  But it's unfair to call one spouse a liar, and ignore the fact that the other spouse was guilty of the same.

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

amabel

I don't think that the sort of lies that C and Di told each other in relation to covering up tehir infidelities is that big a thing.  Unless they were going to be very "upfront" about it, they were bound to lie and say "I'm going to X's for a few days" when they were actually spending time with their lovers. I think that that's understandable and  rather better than talking TOO openly about these matters. 
But in respect of Di's "embroidering" that was a slightly different thing.  I think that if Di had been a "smarter liar", she would have been less prone to being called out on it.  But I agree that she did dramatise her unhappiness and say a lot of emotional things that ended up being contradicted by OTHER things she said.. like the "I don't want a divorce" in her Panorama interview.  Or the story about falling down the stairs when pregnant.. etc.  I think that she was prone to overegg what she said, and forget that she'd said someting different on the subject at another time..and people then remembered what she had said and complained about her being dishonest or inconsistent.. But if she had been cleverer at it, she#d have made sure hers stories were more consistent.

Eri

There is no proof of The Prince having anything other than the close friendship he always had with Cam before 1986 which is the Year ALL PARTIES in that mess AGREE the cheating started ... Di had no right to demand he gave up his friends especially since she made 0 effort to be his "best friend" having him go elsewhere ... I agree it was COLD HEARTED of Di to destroy other people's marriages just  because she wasn't happy in her life ... especially after all the whining about C & C  :orchid: ...

amabel

Actually Diana gave different times for when she thought the affair re started.  One was between the births of Will and Harry.  However I think she had a right to say she wasn't too Happy with Charles maintaining a close friendship with his ex mistress.  I don't think it helped at the start of their marriage that they lived close to Cam and she knew that Ch was still emotionally drawn to Cam.  But equally, she should have backed off when the wives of her male Friends were unhappy with her being "too close" to them. 

Eri

^What efforts did she make to make him forget Cam? If anything she send him back to Cam RUNNING ... Di as unfair as it seems was in a position to have to win over her husband and she wasn't willing to do that to the contrary ... it's amazing though how she did the same thing she whined and whined about Cam doing to other women it's true ...

Limabeany

He never left Camilla, so how could she have sent him back to the woman he was always with?????????????????? :wellduh:
"You don't have to be pretty. You don't owe prettiness to anyone. Not to your boyfriend/spouse/partner, not to your co-workers, especially not to random men on the street. You don't owe it to your mother, you don't owe it to your children, you don't owe it to civilization in general. Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked 'female'." Diana Vreeland.

amabel

Quote from: Eri on November 02, 2013, 01:19:55 PM
^What efforts did she make to make him forget Cam? If anything she send him back to Cam RUNNING ... Di as unfair as it seems was in a position to have to win over her husband and she wasn't willing to do that to the contrary ... it's amazing though how she did the same thing she whined and whined about Cam doing to other women it's true ...

what exactly was she supposed to do??  She was herself, Unfortunately she and Charles had Little in common and both of them had not found that out, during their courtship.  Diana was not the same type of person as Camilla, naturally country loving and horsey.  She was a "townie" and not interested really in the kind of things that Charles was interested in.  I think that that only hit her on honeymoon, when she found herself alone with Charles and realsing that she did not like the RF's way of life or Charles' hobbies.  She made occasional efforts to try and fit in with that, and he made effforts to fit in with what she liked, staying home with the kids, going on sunshine holidays but both of them were trying against their inclinations

sandy

#41
Charles knew that Diana was not of the "horsey" set. If it were such a big deal he cold have found another young woman of the "set." The thing is that I believe that Camilla being of the horsey set would not want Charles taking along a wife to spoil their fun at the hunts and other country pursuits. I think Diana seeing the little gift from Camilla that Charles was wearing and the photos dampened the "mood" during the honeymoon. Charles and Diana did go on ski trips so they didn't vacation apart. Camilla never goes skiing with him.

Double post auto-merged: November 03, 2013, 12:20:38 PM


Quote from: Eri on November 02, 2013, 01:19:55 PM
^What efforts did she make to make him forget Cam? If anything she send him back to Cam RUNNING ... Di as unfair as it seems was in a position to have to win over her husband and she wasn't willing to do that to the contrary ... it's amazing though how she did the same thing she whined and whined about Cam doing to other women it's true ...

Camila should have not been available for Charles to come running to. She had a husband and two young children. Charles hormones and stupidity drove him to Camilla even before Diana came on the scene. Her wedding ring from APB was no deterrent for Charles. Charles dumped Diana after she had the heir and spare. Had he been sincere about working on the marriage, Camilla should have been off limits to him.

Double post auto-merged: November 03, 2013, 12:24:30 PM


Quote from: amabel on November 02, 2013, 08:25:19 AM
Actually Diana gave different times for when she thought the affair re started.  One was between the births of Will and Harry.  However I think she had a right to say she wasn't too Happy with Charles maintaining a close friendship with his ex mistress.  I don't think it helped at the start of their marriage that they lived close to Cam and she knew that Ch was still emotionally drawn to Cam.  But equally, she should have backed off when the wives of her male Friends were unhappy with her being "too close" to them. 

Diana never said the affair started again between the births of the children. Other
people-- writers put this out to the press. One says he was back in touch with her ca. 1983. Diana said he "went back to his lady" after Harry was born. I think Charles never was really out of contact with Camilla.  Had Diana not been cut loose I doubt she'd have looked at another man. Charles in effect ended the marriage when he left Diana's bed.

Princessinwaiting

Diana didn't even try to put effort in the relationship she always cried created drama and wanted to play victim no wonder he cheated

sandy

#43
I'd like to point out that Charles was involved with two married women, Kanga and Camilla (Camilla got Kanga out of the way) before he met Diana. He used Diana to get heirs but had no intention of dropping the mistress. Yet Diana is blamed. She went into the marriage in good faith. Charles did not. Had divorce been encouraged I think Diana would have filed for divorce and moved on.  I don't blame Diana for being upset. A wife should not have to compete with a mistress, particularly one as manipulative as Camilla

Charles did not care two cents for the   feelings of the  husbands of Kanga and Camilla, he just wanted what he wanted when he wanted it.  He went into the marriage to Diana with this attitude. Yet Diana is blamed for "not trying." GMAB. Blamng the wife for a man's acting like a dog is a cop out IMO. It's an age old excuse for a man philandering. Blame the wifey.



Quote from: Eri on November 01, 2013, 05:22:57 PM
There is no proof of The Prince having anything other than the close friendship he always had with Cam before 1986 which is the Year ALL PARTIES in that mess AGREE the cheating started ... Di had no right to demand he gave up his friends especially since she made 0 effort to be his "best friend" having him go elsewhere ... I agree it was COLD HEARTED of Di to destroy other people's marriages just  because she wasn't happy in her life ... especially after all the whining about C & C  :orchid: ...

Friends with benefits. The two could never be "just friends."  Even if they didn't sleep together again until 1986, it was an alienation of affection with Charles preferring the company of another woman. Diana did not destroy other people's marriages. Hoare is sitll married to his wife. Carling  denied any affair took place--he and his wife had other issues.

Camilla is the homewrecker par excellence.

Limabeany

Quote from: PRINCESSINWAITING on November 03, 2013, 12:26:41 PM
Diana didn't even try to put effort in the relationship she always cried created drama and wanted to play victim no wonder he cheated
Diana was 19, a naive 19, and Charles was 32 with a lover on the side, it was not his teenage free from other attachments that had to put the effort in the beginning but her middle aged husband.
"You don't have to be pretty. You don't owe prettiness to anyone. Not to your boyfriend/spouse/partner, not to your co-workers, especially not to random men on the street. You don't owe it to your mother, you don't owe it to your children, you don't owe it to civilization in general. Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked 'female'." Diana Vreeland.

Princessinwaiting

he committed at the beginning ,she never really trusted him theres only so much you can take . by the time problems started she was mid 20s  :orchid:

Limabeany

He rbought the cuff links his lover gave him to his honeymoon, he gave his lover a present early in their marriage, what effort? :orchid:
"You don't have to be pretty. You don't owe prettiness to anyone. Not to your boyfriend/spouse/partner, not to your co-workers, especially not to random men on the street. You don't owe it to your mother, you don't owe it to your children, you don't owe it to civilization in general. Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked 'female'." Diana Vreeland.

sandy

I agree Lmabeany Charles also insisted that he go to lunch with Camilla to personally present the little gift. I don't blame Diana for being upset. She thought though once he took his vows to her Camilla would be history. Then Charles put on the cufflinks from Camilla on the honeymoon. I don't get why Diana is made the bad guy in the scenario.

Eri

^ No it's The Prince who is made out to be a "monster" in this "scenario" ...

SophieChloe

He was - the pair of them were - IMO!

And some are quite understanding of a married man wearing cuflinks from his mistress and Diana was meant not to mind - really!  - Would you?

If my husband had done that to me - I'd have chopped his b...s off.  Disgraceful. 
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me