The Saddest Princess

Started by LouisFerdinand, May 09, 2017, 12:29:44 AM

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LouisFerdinand

Was Diana Frances a sad Princess?   
Diana - The Saddest Princess - YouTube   
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sandy


Trudie

The only source of sadness attributed to Diana was the lack of love and support from her husband in her marriage.



sandy

I think Diana got a raw deal. Too bad she did not have a chance to live a long life post divorce.

LouisFerdinand

It is unfortunate that the Wedding of Charles and Diana did not live up to its fairytale expectation for Diana.


royalanthropologist

I have found that it is up to you to decide when and how you are going to be happy. Other people may try to harm you but it is ultimately you who can decide whether you are going to be happy or not. Generally speaking, I keep away from things that distress me. I wish Diana had done the same. Life is too short to quarrel with people. Her death robbed Diana of the chance to start over again in a different context. Not that I think she would have asked for another life other than being princess of wales. She liked the role and shone in it. Besides she would never regret having her children. The problem is that she also wanted a great big romance which Charles was unable to or unwilling to participate in. I think that an amicable divorce and a do over is the best course in such situations.
"In the past, people were born royal. Nowadays, royalty comes from what you do"...Gianni Versace

sandy

Diana could not possibly ignore some things.  Charles should not have married Diana because he did not love her. He wanted heirs and I think thought he could have it all: the wife, heirs, and mistress.  Charles tended to think of "concepts" not reality. Camilla's husband was amenable but he should have figured Diana might not have been. In some cases, if a wife found out the husband really did not love her after the marriage ceremony, an annulment could be possible. A very difficult thing for Diana to have even attempted to do. It was not easy to move in and out of that marriage.

amabel

Diana the saddest princess? there are plenty of women princesses or not, who had a sadder and more difuflct life

sandy

I think the most tragic Princess, was a previous Princess Charlotte. She was in line to be Queen after her father, George IV. She was happily married to Prince Leopold. She died suddenly in childbirth--she and her baby both died.

amabel

I can think of more than one.. what about Carlotta of MExico?  or Mary Tudor? Sophia Dorothea.. 

sandy

The four Grand Duchesses who were assassinated in 1918.

michelle0187

I think she was the saddest princess who was the most outspoken about her troubles behind closed doors. I can't think of a princess who went against the RF and had the public in her corner at the same time, so suddenly. Sure there's more princesses who suffered more tragedies, put up with the same things diana did and stricter rules. But the way she managed to reach people around world for being so vocal about her troubles, somehow made her sadness even more terrible than others.

Curryong

I agree that Diana was a very sad princess. However, for me the saddest Princess of all time was Prince Philip's grandmother, Victoria Milford Haven, born Princess Victoria of Hesse. You don't get many Princesses who lose a brother in childhood who fell off a balcony, a mother and sister who died when she was fifteen, of typhoid.

Victoria's marriage was happy but two of her sisters were killed by the Bolsheviks, Ella being thrown alive down a mine shaft, Alex killed with her entire family at Ekaterinberg.

Victoria's daughter Alice suffered years of mental illness and Victoria had to have her committed, and her granddaughter Cecilie, husband and two little boys and unborn grandson were killed in a horrific plane crash while on their way to a wedding in 1937. The survivor, a little girl Joanna, who'd been left at home, died of meningitis two years later.

I think that's more than enough tragedy in one person's lifetime.

TLLK

#13
Quote from: amabel on May 10, 2017, 05:11:52 PM
I can think of more than one.. what about Carlotta of MExico?  or Mary Tudor? Sophia Dorothea.. 
CP Masako and Empress Michiko have both endured periods of depression and sadness as well because of the intense pressure, negative media articles and bullying from the IHA.  Michiko was mute for almost an entire year during the 1960's and 1990's.  Masako's ongoing issues have been widely discussed as well.

amabel

I think compared with the royal women of the past, many of whom endured real ill treatement, Diana and other modern royals while they might have had sadness in their lives, really had little to complain of.
Diana certainly did manage to complain loudly, but that doesn't make her sadness more terrible.

michelle0187

It's not exactly about who lost more loved ones in a short amount of time. It's how she handled it behind closed doors and in public. To say she had little to nothing to complain about because some had it much worst is unfair. They have the same title, not the same personality.

TLLK

Quotemany of whom endured real ill treatement
While they didn't share the same experiences as royal women from the 19th century and earlier, I would put the Japanese royal ladies Michiko and Masako in that category for the twentieth.

Curryong

^ Yes, Misako and Michiko have received terrible treatment from the IRH, treatment that would have broken most women, not just these two. I often wonder just how powerful the Emperor really is if he can't dismantle this bureaucratic monstrosity and bring it into at least the late 20th century. Members of that royal family are truly like puppets in some senses, dancing to the tune others compose.

TLLK

#18
I've wondered that as well @Curryong. Considering what had happened to Michiko I'm not surprised that it took three proposals for Masako to say yes to marrying her prince.

Double post auto-merged: May 11, 2017, 03:15:31 PM


Quote from: amabel on May 11, 2017, 01:19:22 AM
I think compared with the royal women of the past, many of whom endured real ill treatement, Diana and other modern royals while they might have had sadness in their lives, really had little to complain of.
Diana certainly did manage to complain loudly, but that doesn't make her sadness more terrible.
Diana like Sweden's Silvia, Spain's Sofia, and  Belgium's Paola had an unfaithful spouse. It's unfortunately a common occurrence in more than one royal and commoner marriage.

sandy

Princesses who married into the British royal family did get cheated on even though they were not commoners. Alexandra was a Danish Princess, sister of the wife and mother of a Tsar and  had many royal relatives. Despite this, she was cheated on by Edward VII. Marina, a Princess in her own right, was cheated on by Prince George, who had male and female lovers.

amabel

Good god most upper class and royal husbands were unfaithful.. up to the 20th Centuyr,  they married for policy and took lovers for pleasure and love.  Diana was unhappy, she didn't fit in to her royal role all that well or to her husband's family.  She was bulimic and  depressed. but her problems were not as major as previous princesses. She didn't lose children, or many many relatives the way that was not uncommon in earlier times.  She may not have been liked by her royal relatives but they didn't abuse her.  She got a good divorce settlement when she ended her marriage and wasn't cut out of a public role.hwat was very sad in her life was her early death and her parnetal problems and the lack of a steady lover when her marriage failed..
I have no idea about the Japanese Royal Family but if it is so terrible why DID other women marry into it?  Are they royal women who had less choice?

Curryong

^ I don't think it is the Japanese Imperial family that is the problem really. Her spouse and others have been sympathetic and supportive of the Crown Princess over the years.

It just seems that everyone from the Emperor down seems to be a prisoner of rituals, expectations, protocol laid down long ago and being unable to speak out against it because image is everything. I don't mean image in the modern PR sense of the word, but a determination to keep everything ultra private and symbolic, without any loss of face at any time for any reason.

This is the most ancient monarchy and Imperial house in the world and I'm not sure that any non Japanese person really understands the importance of this family in the homeland. Courtiers and bureaucrats rule the family's lives and are all powerful.

The Royal females are expected to have a son. Producing a daughter only, has broken Crown Princess Masako. The pressure on her must have been horrendous. And this was a highly intelligent and accomplished woman.

I always remember seeing a cartoon in a British newspaper of crowds in Tokyo cheering Masako on her way to her wedding and Diana attracting a startled Masako's attention from the crowd by calling out 'Don't do it, love!'

sandy

#22
The Japanese royal family is behind the times. Masako's daughter may well have become a splendid monarch. I hope Masako and the Crown Prince love and cherish their daughter, she is not inferior to any male.

Double post auto-merged: May 12, 2017, 01:20:16 PM


Quote from: amabel on May 12, 2017, 05:49:27 AM
Good god most upper class and royal husbands were unfaithful.. up to the 20th Centuyr,  they married for policy and took lovers for pleasure and love.  Diana was unhappy, she didn't fit in to her royal role all that well or to her husband's family.  She was bulimic and  depressed. but her problems were not as major as previous princesses. She didn't lose children, or many many relatives the way that was not uncommon in earlier times.  She may not have been liked by her royal relatives but they didn't abuse her.  She got a good divorce settlement when she ended her marriage and wasn't cut out of a public role.hwat was very sad in her life was her early death and her parnetal problems and the lack of a steady lover when her marriage failed..
I have no idea about the Japanese Royal Family but if it is so terrible why DID other women marry into it?  Are they royal women who had less choice?

Not all of them were. Prince Albert was faithful to his wife Victoria and did not understand his eldest son's behavior with women. Edward's siblings were faithful. Vicki, the eldest daughter had a loving marriage where partners were faithful to one another. They did not "all" do this and naming others who did this does not make the adultery acceptable.

Diana was only divorced one year, she probably would have found someone. She was only 36 not 96 when she died.

At least Alexandra's husband did not leave  his wife's bed after they had their first two children.

TLLK

QuoteThis is the most ancient monarchy and Imperial house in the world and I'm not sure that any non Japanese person really understands the importance of this family in the homeland. Courtiers and bureaucrats rule the family's lives and are all powerful.

IMO this was then strengthened by the actions of the American occupation forces after the war. I believe that they did not understand the power that the IHA/courtiers had over the Imperial family and since then they have continued to have a hold on them.

I also agree @Curryong that the individual members of the Imperial family are supportive of each other, but that there is a level of frustration between them as well. CP Nahurito is rumored to have been angered by what happened to his mother and reportedly blames his father for not putting an end to it.

Duch_Luver_4ever

I've kind of tuned out to this thread cause its out of my depth, but now were into something in my wheelhouse on it. They did not understand Japan, like a lot of their adversaries and allies in the 20th century. I know given its a royal forum the default opinion might be more monarchy is best monarchy, but I do think that it was a short term expediency but a long term mistake to allow Japan to keep the emperor and related system.
"No other member of the Royal Family mattered that year, or I think for the next 17 years, it was just her." Arthur Edwards, The Sun Photographer, talking about Diana's impact.