Is Kate a Role Model?

Started by PrincessOfPeace, April 23, 2014, 04:24:41 AM

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PrincessOfPeace

I'm sooo happy it was Rebecca Sparrow who wrote this response!


Rebecca Sparrow ‏@RebeccaSparrow 57m

It's time to take a side people. And I'm on "Team Duchess".

QuoteThe Duchess of Cambridge is dangerous.

Did you know?

Lock your doors, people. Be alert not alarmed. The Duchess is out to brainwash little girls into becoming grown up doormats with a single digit BMI (but with truly awesome hair).

At least that's what writer Maggie Hamilton seems to think. (Okay maybe not the awesome hair bit ... I made that up).

Usually I consider myself to be a fairly reasonable person. I work hard to see both sides to most arguments. And I can understand (most of the time) where people are coming from even if I don't agree with them.

But today, I just can't do that.

I have sat for the past week and gritted my teeth as a critical post about the Duchess of Cambridge has gone viral on Mamamia.
More: Is Kate Middleton a role model for our daughters? Bec Sparrow says yes.

Lothwen

I don't dislike Kate. I don't know her well enough to have a very strong opinion of her personality.  And in terms of her style, she's a better role model than most American movie stars or "celebrities". 

But that's who she's compared to.  Celebrities.  Models and starlets and WAGS.  Of course she looks better in comparison.

You may think you're cool, but do you have a smiley named after you?
Harryite 12-005

Okay, fine.  Macrobug is now as cool as I am

Limabeany

#2
I guess my reasons for disagreeing with this woman's premise are the same, and will be as long as idle and Kate remain synonymous (whatever the excuse of the hour may be, she can't work because she has to be available for William, she just married, she must get pregnant, she is pregnant, she has a baby and can't bear to part from him to work an hour but only for vacations abroad (the poor exhausted hard-working thing deserves it)... A new one blooms with every spring...) The Duchess of Cambridge is a woman in her thirties who was kept by her mother so she could spend all her time as an adult until the age of 29, until she married, available for her husband. The Duchess of Cambridge handles with grace the few occasions she ventures out in public, she says, true, and if you only visited your nine areas of responsibility once a year (Kate's workload last year was 9 visits in total to her charities and spent 45 minutes working at each on average but 6 at the beauty salon, and two weeks vacationing abroad, I venture to say you would be graceful and grateful as well... She is a public servant by marriage, with a staff of about 30, who is idle not a stay at home mom... If her mother's plan is to raise a daughter who only goes to college to nab a rich husband and never sets a goal for herself beyond marrying up enabled and kept by mum so she doesn't have to spend time on the real world beyond pubs, Mustique and the bedroom, then the only danger to that woman's daughter is her mother...  :blank:
"You don't have to be pretty. You don't owe prettiness to anyone. Not to your boyfriend/spouse/partner, not to your co-workers, especially not to random men on the street. You don't owe it to your mother, you don't owe it to your children, you don't owe it to civilization in general. Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked 'female'." Diana Vreeland.

Princessinwaiting

#3
 :thanks: for sharing that PoP .

TEAM DUCHESS  :Jen: :teehee:
Quote
you know what bothered me the most about your post? The judgment of one woman's choices.

There are millions of women in this country and around the world who have chosen to give up their careers to be stay at home mothers. Similarly there are millions of women who have consciously made the decision to be 'trailing spouses' while they follow their partners around the country or around the world.

For many years, I was one of them.

Does that make me somehow lesser than? A worse role model to my daughter? A let-down to the sisterhood? What does it matter to you, Maggie if Catherine or I or anyone else has made such a choice?


:clap: :clap:

cinrit

Great article! :thumbsup:  The intention of women's liberation in the Sixties was the ability to make our own choices without being judged for whichever of those choices we make.  Thanks for posting it, Princess. :flower:

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

Limabeany

#5
Idleness should not be the choice of a public servant which Kate is by virtue of marriage... It is a choice for her sister, Sam Branson's wife... Kate is judged because she acts like a WAG but she did not marry a footballer, but a Prince that came with a job title which is not "Princess of Mustique" forgive me Victoria Beckham, because you are a hardworking woman even though you don't have to and no one expects it from you, unlike...
"You don't have to be pretty. You don't owe prettiness to anyone. Not to your boyfriend/spouse/partner, not to your co-workers, especially not to random men on the street. You don't owe it to your mother, you don't owe it to your children, you don't owe it to civilization in general. Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked 'female'." Diana Vreeland.

cinrit

I'm not convinced that Kate is idle; she just isn't spending her time doing what you want her to be doing. 

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

Limabeany

"You don't have to be pretty. You don't owe prettiness to anyone. Not to your boyfriend/spouse/partner, not to your co-workers, especially not to random men on the street. You don't owe it to your mother, you don't owe it to your children, you don't owe it to civilization in general. Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked 'female'." Diana Vreeland.

Limabeany

Quote from: cinrit on April 23, 2014, 11:03:30 AM
Great article! :thumbsup:  The intention of women's liberation in the Sixties was the ability to make our own choices without being judged for whichever of those choices we make.  Thanks for posting it, Princess. :flower:

Cindy
When you have a title, Princess of the UK, that comes with a job you should not treat it simply as a luxury title. Kate is not judged for the choice of being a housewife, she is not a housewife, she is judged because she is someone who holds a job and did it four times in as many months... And works considerably less than people in their 90s who work for the same company she does... The intention of Women's Lib, was not that women assume responsibilities, by marriage contract or other contract, and shirked their obligations...
"You don't have to be pretty. You don't owe prettiness to anyone. Not to your boyfriend/spouse/partner, not to your co-workers, especially not to random men on the street. You don't owe it to your mother, you don't owe it to your children, you don't owe it to civilization in general. Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked 'female'." Diana Vreeland.

cinrit

The intention of women's liberation (I was there), was to have the right to live our lives as we saw fit, without being judged by anyone else.   That was the intention.  If it's changed over the years, I didn't hear about it. :shrug:

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

Lothwen

^You're right that the point of Women's Liberation was so women could live their lives as they choose. 

But, in Kate's case (and anyone else who marries into the Royal Family), she has married somebody where being "just a housewife" really isn't feasible.  When you're a Royal, you (IMO) should see yourself as working for your country.  The Queen understood that when she was crowned she was entering into a lifetime of service.  And "service" is the key word here.  The royals "serve" their countries, and not the other way around.

As a royal, Kate has lots of luxuries, such as beautiful homes to live in, opportunities, vacations, designer clothes, jewelry, etc.  What she doesn't have the luxury of is to be a full-time stay at home mom whose only job is to raise her child (with all that goes on with that).  She has to make appearances, she has to be patron of her charities, and she has to represent her country.
You may think you're cool, but do you have a smiley named after you?
Harryite 12-005

Okay, fine.  Macrobug is now as cool as I am

sandy

Women's lib actually has little to do with it. Way before women's lib, senior royal wives worked and worked tirelessly--visiting charities, hospitals, and doing actual charity and royal work and being seen. Not necessary to give excuses that we don't know what they do 24/7. Alexandra as Princess and Queen had a larger family than today's royals have, she was deaf and lame (but didn't let that stand in her way) and she was beloved by the people because she worked tirelessly. Queen Mary worked hard also. Queen Elizabeth as Duchess of York worked and this helped prepare her for her role as Queen Consort which was totally unexpected for her --her brother in law abdicated and she was out there working and assisting her husband.  Senior royal women in history have not played the I'm a housewife card, they worked and their privileges and perks involved "giving back".  If Kate wanted to play the I'm a housewife card she should have married someone else. She even said in her engagement interview that she would work hard and it can be assumed she didn't mean working at getting her hair done or vacationing.

Princessinwaiting

How is she idle ? She works atm she's on tour a royal tour which some people have dubbed a vacation  :wellduh: but personally I love her energy , her enthusiasm when she greets people , how ambitious she is ,  how interested she becomes when in a visit I love that and I wouldn't mind any daughters on my liking her because of some silly rumours spread while she dated the man she loves and now is married to . It's such a stereotype that she idle , I mean for someone 3 yrs into royal wife who's a new mother I find she's f doing really well. .

Would I like her to work more YES of course but I will be honest because she's my favourite royal and I like seeing her more often .
Do I feel this tour was light YES of course I do , I even mentioned it somewhere on this forum .
My question to the naysayers is would all this be allowed if the queen /courtiers / advisers etc felt it wasn't a good thing to do ? NO to that .

PrincessOfPeace

Kate isn't a full-time 'housewife' either nor is she idle. As Cindy says she just isn't doing what her critics want at the moment but she is far from idle.

The biggest difference between Kate and Alexandra of Denmark or the Duchess of York is her position in the family.

Being married to the sovereign's grandson is a big difference from being married to her son. A difference nobody wants to admit and they act as if the BRF is struggling with people to fill slots. None of the Queen's grandchildren work full-time for the firm so Kate shouldn't be singled out. If Harry marries in the next few years during the Queen's reign she won't be expected either. Just the way the BRF works.

Much like the people who complain about Prince George being shielded from the media and then turn around and accuse the royals of 'PR' when he is photographed, I doubt there is anything Kate can do placate the small minority who always look to find fault. Its a free world and this is fine, but in my experience when you criticise someone for everything they do the criticisms loose any point or meaning.

Other than that, I think Kate is a great role model for those of us who admire her and just because she has taken the road less travelled, doesn't mean its wrong.

Orchid

It stands to reason that Kate will be a role model to some people and not others. It's simply a reflection of peoples differing values.  Nevertheless, I think Rebecca Sparrow ought to let her Daughter choose her own role models, whatever her age.
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things."
-Winston Churchil

cinrit

^^ But I didn't see anything in the article to indicate that she's pushing Kate onto her daughter.  All she said in the article is that it wouldn't upset her if her daughter wanted to put up a poster of Kate.  Everything else was just her own opinion.  From the article:

"So if one day my daughter wants to put a poster of the Duchess of Cambridge on her wall alongside others posters of Amy Poehler and Melinda Gates and Wonder Woman and author Tara June Winch and designer Sascha Drake and Dr Catherine Hamlin and her Godmother Katie (an aid worker in the Solomon Islands and all-round great girl) – so be it."

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

Orchid

I was referring very specifically to the title of Rebecca Sparrow's article: "Kate Middleton IS a role model for my Daughter".  It's up to every individual to decide who IS and IS NOT a role model. Not a mother.  But yes, I also spotted her ending which says IF she wants to put a poster of the DoC on her wall.  But this conditional statement doesn't mitigate her starting assertion that she IS a role model. It's not an extraneous detail in the context of my earlier point.  :)
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things."
-Winston Churchil

sandy

#17
Quote from: PrincessOfPeace on April 23, 2014, 02:16:41 PM
Kate isn't a full-time 'housewife' either nor is she idle. As Cindy says she just isn't doing what her critics want at the moment but she is far from idle.

The biggest difference between Kate and Alexandra of Denmark or the Duchess of York is her position in the family.

Being married to the sovereign's grandson is a big difference from being married to her son. A difference nobody wants to admit and they act as if the BRF is struggling with people to fill slots. None of the Queen's grandchildren work full-time for the firm so Kate shouldn't be singled out. If Harry marries in the next few years during the Queen's reign she won't be expected either. Just the way the BRF works.

Much like the people who complain about Prince George being shielded from the media and then turn around and accuse the royals of 'PR' when he is photographed, I doubt there is anything Kate can do placate the small minority who always look to find fault. Its a free world and this is fine, but in my experience when you criticise someone for everything they do the criticisms loose any point or meaning.

Other than that, I think Kate is a great role model for those of us who admire her and just because she has taken the road less travelled, doesn't mean its wrong.

William is not just the sovereign's grandson he is a future monarch. She is a senior royal.  OTOH Elizabeth when Duchess of York had no expectations of her husband being a future monarch until ca. late 1936 that is.  And yet she was a wife, mother and also gave back as Duchess of York. She was further down the ladder than Kate is today.

I don't mind George being photographed, he is a future monarch too and should not be hidden out.

The Queens other grandchildren will never be monarchs and Charles does not even want the Yorks working when he's king. Zara and Peter live quiet lives because they are way down in line of succession. WIlliam is not and he and his wife should not be considered the equivalent of the others as far as work is concerned.

Double post auto-merged: April 23, 2014, 03:15:39 PM


Quote from: Princessinwaiting on April 23, 2014, 02:14:18 PM
How is she idle ? She works atm she's on tour a royal tour which some people have dubbed a vacation  :wellduh: but personally I love her energy , her enthusiasm when she greets people , how ambitious she is ,  how interested she becomes when in a visit I love that and I wouldn't mind any daughters on my liking her because of some silly rumours spread while she dated the man she loves and now is married to . It's such a stereotype that she idle , I mean for someone 3 yrs into royal wife who's a new mother I find she's f doing really well. .

Would I like her to work more YES of course but I will be honest because she's my favourite royal and I like seeing her more often .
Do I feel this tour was light YES of course I do , I even mentioned it somewhere on this forum .
My question to the naysayers is would all this be allowed if the queen /courtiers / advisers etc felt it wasn't a good thing to do ? NO to that .

She is doing the tour but has been mostly inactive and little was seen of her for weeks at a time. She took vacations and did "fun" things but little work. It remains to be seen if this trend will continue after the tour of Australia/New Zealand. If it is the same pattern she will disappear for a while then there will be reports of an expensive vacation with or without William.

Kate can be doing a lot more. If you are satisfied with the small numbers she has as far as royal duties, that's your choice.

PrincessOfPeace

 The Duchess of York was married to the reigning sovereign's second son. Edward had no children, her precedence was always higher than the Duchess of Cambridge.


Lothwen

^But when she first married she had no way of knowing that Edward would never have children.  I'm sure she expected he would marry and he and his wife would have several children, which would have put Bertie further and further down the line of succession.

You may think you're cool, but do you have a smiley named after you?
Harryite 12-005

Okay, fine.  Macrobug is now as cool as I am

sandy

Quote from: PrincessOfPeace on April 23, 2014, 03:22:37 PM
The Duchess of York was married to the reigning sovereign's second son. Edward had no children, her precedence was always higher than the Duchess of Cambridge.



The point is that the second son at the time was seen up until late 1936 as having no chance to become King. It was expected Edward would marry and have children. Since she was not married to a future monarch (or so it seemed for years) she was lower in the pecking order than Kate is now and whose husband is directly in line to be King.

Eri

#21
Why would anyone worship a woman [edit] with the right man is beyond me ... she has done NOTHING in her life but be Willy's lapdog so yeah she is dangerous as a role model to a teenage girl !!! What I find hilarious though is that minutes before the engagement announcement she was Britain's biggest JOKE she was actually MOCKED by EVERYONE but now she is being worshiped and WILLIAM did that by putting Di's ring on her finger after 10 Years of HUMILIATING her !!!

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PrincessOfPeace

#22
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TLLK

#23
IMHO I am grateful to the generations of women before me who challenged the norms and have changed the role of women in the workforce and society. We now have women as elected heads of state, members of their governments, leaders of industry and more. For women who choose to lead their lives embracing traditional roles, I respect their decision as well. IMHO when women are belittled for their decisions (stay-at-home-mothers vs career mothers) then we as a society lose. Former First Lady Barbara Bush addressed this quite eloquently in her memorable commencement speech at Wellsey College in the 1980's.

The discussion over the Cambridges and Prince Harry's number of engagements is likely to continue unless the Palace comes out and makes a statement about it. For now I believe that the reason is that HM prefers to have her own children and cousins working as full time royals. (This is alluded to on the official BRF website.)

If a young girl chooses to consider Kate a role model then that is HER choice. IMO she will likely come to consider other women as role models too over time as she continues her education. As a parent I would see nothing wrong with supporting her interest, but I would include other women within the BRF and then move onto women who are involved in other levels of the UK government. I've found that overt discouragement often leads to a shut down in communication.  :)

Ms. Sparrow sums up my feelings perfectly.

cinrit

#24
^^ Very true, TLLK.  As we mature, we set our sights on more realistic goals.  Little girls who identify with Kate now, will change their heroes a half-dozen times before they even get to college.

Quote from: Orchid on April 23, 2014, 03:06:09 PM
I was referring very specifically to the title of Rebecca Sparrow's article: "Kate Middleton IS a role model for my Daughter".  It's up to every individual to decide who IS and IS NOT a role model. Not a mother.  But yes, I also spotted her ending which says IF she wants to put a poster of the DoC on her wall.  But this conditional statement doesn't mitigate her starting assertion that she IS a role model. It's not an extraneous detail in the context of my earlier point.  :) 

That's true, it isn't.  But it doesn't indicate that she forced Kate on her daughter, either. :flower:

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.