Nightmare for Prince Charles Succession Wait!

Started by angieuk, July 27, 2014, 07:41:09 AM

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cate1949

Quote from: lilibet80 on September 16, 2014, 07:26:35 PM
I cannot believe that anyone in his or her right mind could equate the Prince of Wales with a Nazi murderer.  What did he really do?  He married a girl barely out of her teens who he liked very much.  As time went by the marriage was not working out.   As many kings, princes, generals, executives and the guy next door do he had a lover.  He handled it like an imbecile and not like a gentleman.  She also had a lover.  She also handled it like an imbecile.  They both could not keep their mouths shut, but aired their dirty linen in public with it would seem very little thought for their children or the Parker Bowles children.  They got divorced.  She got killed. 
He married some years later and has two lovely boys and a grandson. 

He did not run a gas chamber.  He did not invade Russia.  He did make Jewish people  dig their own graves and then shoot them into it.  He did not run a concentration camp.  He made a bad marriage.  It is time to let this kind of hatred go for this man.  He committed no crime, he handled a marriage stupidly.


well said

TLLK

 :)
Quote from: Limabeany on September 16, 2014, 06:42:50 PM
I think that is true, but it reminds me of all those Nazi butchers that went to live in Argentina and other places and became happy model citizens.
Perhaps another comparison could be made Limabeany? :)

sandy

#77
Quote from: lilibet80 on September 16, 2014, 06:31:59 PM
This will probably cause world war on this board, but since he married Camilla he is more relaxed and happier than I have ever seen him.  He seems much less nervous and more settled in his mind.  His sense of humor comes out more and he seems at peace with himself and the world.  Perhaps he has finally grown up.

If she made him so  content why did he think her only good enough to be a mistress and not good enough to have his royal children.  If he cared for her so much he would not have married another woman nor put the idea of having heirs ahead of their "love."

She looks like the cat that got the cream. She did not meet the fate of Wallis Simpson and even got rewarded for what she did (which to me was manipulating her way to the top).

Charles looked happy with Diana early on but Camilla undermined Diana every step of the way.

Charles looks a lot older since he married Camilla (I guess because she looks quite elderly now).

Double post auto-merged: September 17, 2014, 12:22:54 AM


Quote from: lilibet80 on September 16, 2014, 07:26:35 PM
I cannot believe that anyone in his or her right mind could equate the Prince of Wales with a Nazi murderer.  What did he really do?  He married a girl barely out of her teens who he liked very much.  As time went by the marriage was not working out.   As many kings, princes, generals, executives and the guy next door do he had a lover.  He handled it like an imbecile and not like a gentleman.  She also had a lover.  She also handled it like an imbecile.  They both could not keep their mouths shut, but aired their dirty linen in public with it would seem very little thought for their children or the Parker Bowles children.  They got divorced.  She got killed. 
He married some years later and has two lovely boys and a grandson. 

He did not run a gas chamber.  He did not invade Russia.  He did make Jewish people  dig their own graves and then shoot them into it.  He did not run a concentration camp.  He made a bad marriage.  It is time to let this kind of hatred go for this man.  He committed no crime, he handled a marriage stupidly.

Charles being "happy" did come at the expense of others including the unfortunate first wife. For some it seems to be the be all and end all that this man is "happy."

Charles did not start the taking of lovers only after he married Diana, he helped himself to his pals' wives. Charles was involved with Lady Kanga Tryon and Camilla Parker Bowles.  Charles could have been drummed out of the military if he had been "ordinary" and not who he was--for sleeping with a fellow officer's wife.

Charles should not have married Diana if he only "liked"  her. I think he saw her as a means to an end: the begetting of heirs.

Curryong

In my humble opinion the young Camilla was head over heels in love with Andrew Parker Bowles and wanted to marry him even though she knew he was a womaniser. Even though she was undoubtedly fond of Charles, Camilla knew she wouldn't be deemed suitable by the Palace, and Prince Whiffle-Waffler wasn't going to rock the boat and propose to her any time soon. So she married APB, for better or for worse.

amabel

It would have  been very foolish and indeed wrong for Charles to propose to a woman who wouldn't' be acceptable to the RF.  he has to have the Queen's permission. So I don't know why you call him "Prince Whiffle-Waffler .  And Cam I think was indeed I love with Andrew and wasn't overly keen on the idea of being a royal wife. so I think in any case she would have said no, back then

sandy

Edward VIII chose a very inappropriate woman with two divorces but he had this all out can't live without you love and fought for her even at the expense of his being King.

Charles OTOH told his biographer that he felt he was "too young" and did not tell her to wait for him. If he had this desperate love for her he would have fought to marry her and I think she could have been promoted as his bride via PR and his "set" would protect her and her past lovers would keep their mouths shut.

If Camilla were not keen on being a royal wife she could have always said no to being Charles mistress and later the second wife. I think she wanted the trappings of royalty.

As it turned out Charles had his cake and ate it too. He consigned Camilla to being a mistress, he chose Diana to marry and have his children and envisioned a sort of "captain's paradise" where he could be involved with more than one woman. But circumstances including Charles outing  of Camilla led to his ultimately marrying her.

cinrit

In the 1970's, no, Charles could not have proposed to Camilla, even if he hadn't thought he was too young.  He couldn't have protected her.  It was a different time then.  And to compare how Edward VIII acted to how Charles acted is unfair, since the two are completely different people and shouldn't be expected to act or react the same. 

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

sandy

Of course he could have proposed to her. If he pushed for the marriage I think he could have gotten to marry her. He did not even try. It is not unfair to compare the two. Edward did not bring a "suitable" girl into a marriage where he knew he could not be faithful to her. Charles did.

Trudie

Quote from: cinrit on September 17, 2014, 07:02:35 PM
In the 1970's, no, Charles could not have proposed to Camilla, even if he hadn't thought he was too young.  He couldn't have protected her.  It was a different time then.  And to compare how Edward VIII acted to how Charles acted is unfair, since the two are completely different people and shouldn't be expected to act or react the same. 

Cindy

How is it unfair Cindy? Both men were Prince of Wales in the same circumstances regarding marriage and restrictions. The difference is Edward manned up about Wallis and declared his love for her against the wishes of King George V he even brought her to a court function where they were forced to meet. Edward VIII was not prepared to live a lie and marry for the sake of appearances it was for love. Charles did not man up at all he just left then returned and made her his mistress that was the safe thing for him to do. Charles was more then well prepared to live a lie and it cost his wife and children dearly.



amabel

Quote from: cinrit on September 17, 2014, 07:02:35 PM
In the 1970's, no, Charles could not have proposed to Camilla, even if he hadn't thought he was too young.  He couldn't have protected her.  It was a different time then.  And to compare how Edward VIII acted to how Charles acted is unfair, since the two are completely different people and shouldn't be expected to act or react the same. 

Cindy
True there was a huge gap in time between them. and in the outside world things had changed in that women were now having sex prior to marriage instead of saving themselves...  But in the RF things hadn't changed all that much in that a woman who had had lovers, like Cam, was liable NOT to be accepted as the wife of the future King.  So if C had proposed, I think the Queen would have simply refused permission and he'd have either ot face stepping out of the succession.. which would have been a body blow to his mother and family, or to face a long fight...And Cam would nt in any case have been interested.  She loved Andrew PB, she wasn't that keen on t he idea of being in a public role, being scrutinised and photographed and watched and she was happy enough to maintain a close friendship or affair with Charles while waiting to get Andrew to marry her. I think that after she married Andrew, Charles was very upset, but he was still young and probably DID feel that he was rather Young to make the big commitment of marriage and that he wowud prefer to take his time getting over this girl he really loved, but waiting for anotehr serious relationship to come along..

sandy

The point is Charles did not even try. He told his biographer he was "not ready to get married in the early seventies and he never told Camilla to wait for him.

If Camilla were not keen on the role she would not have said yes to Charles' proposal nor been his mistress.

Camilla's past could have been spun  if Charles had chosen to vet her as a wife back then. She has spin doctors now she could have had them back then. IMO.

Canuck

Okay, so Charles wasn't convinced back in the 1970s that Camilla was the woman he wanted to marry.  How does that possibly matter?  That was literally 35-40 years ago.  Today, Charles and Camilla seem very much in love and very happy together. 

sandy

Nobody knows how they feel. And the time is irrelevant. Once Charles decided not to marry Camilla he should not have looked back. And he did the same with Dale Tryon, he was attracted to her but felt too young to marry but her marrying someone else did not stop him from pursuing her. She became a "stand in" for Camilla when Camilla was pregnant with APB's children.

Charles "happiness" came at a great price. And she is the cat that got the cream. I think who he is had much to do with her staying in his life after he married another woman. If he had been Charles Jones I doubt she'd have given him the time of day.

lilibet80

You say that nobody knows how they feel, then you go on to describe their feelings.  The time is relevant in that Charles would have never even asked for marriage to Camilla in the 1970s as he already knew the answer would be no.  His parents would never have signed off on a marriage to a girl who was not socially his equal and who was a girl with a "past."  I do not profess to know their emotional reactions and I do not delude myself into taking a position in the blame game.  They all behaved badly.

sandy

That is not what Charles himself reported to his authorized biographer. He said he was not "ready" for marriage and did not tell Camilla to wait for him when he went to sea. When Charles cooperated on his bio with Mr Dimbleby he was not feeling very loving to his parents (to say the least) and if he felt his mother would "never" allow the marriage he certainly would have added this to his grievances.

Charles can be stubborn but apparently he did not care enough to even try.  Charles was not a baby  he was an adult and he himself made the choice not to pursue Camilla Shand as a bride.


cinrit

I think the point is, Sandy, what does it matter what he did or didn't do decades ago?  He and Camilla are married now and to all appearances, seem happy. 

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

sandy

It does matter. The two just did not emerge from a vacuum. And their life stories do include a past.

Camilla is still controversial and not universally loved because of her past. So yes the past does matter and people do have memories of how she got where she is and how William and Harry got to be here.

HistoryGirl

^I can understand where you're coming from as far as white-washing the past and pretending it was all a fairy tale love story which the press do sometimes. It can get annoying and nauseating when overdone.

cinrit

But no one is white-washing the past.  Just saying it's in the past.

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

HistoryGirl

There are plenty of articles that do. The whole Camilla winning people's hearts thing was one.

lilibet80

Quote from: sandy on September 19, 2014, 03:08:46 PM
That is not what Charles himself reported to his authorized biographer. He said he was not "ready" for marriage and did not tell Camilla to wait for him when he went to sea. When Charles cooperated on his bio with Mr Dimbleby he was not feeling very loving to his parents (to say the least) and if he felt his mother would "never" allow the marriage he certainly would have added this to his grievances.

Charles can be stubborn but apparently he did not care enough to even try.  Charles was not a baby  he was an adult and he himself made the choice not to pursue Camilla Shand as a bride. 

There you go again describing his feelings and decisions and choices.  There is a difference when a man in his twenties like Charles, and a man in his forties like the DOW.  Camilla would never have been acceptable as a future queen in the 1970s and Charles knew it.  He would never go on television and discuss what his mother and father would have said if he asked for Camilla to be his queen.  He may have been angry and resentful but he knew his boundaries. 

Canuck

Quote from: cinrit on September 19, 2014, 06:02:30 PM
But no one is white-washing the past.  Just saying it's in the past.

That's how I feel, Cindy.  No one is whitewashing what happened back in the 1980s; the article that started this post certainly doesn't ignore it.  But Charles and Camilla have both been divorced from their first spouses for 20 years.  Not every single article about them is going to make Diana/their affair the focus, nor should it.   

amabel

Quote from: Canuck on September 18, 2014, 07:59:48 PM
Okay, so Charles wasn't convinced back in the 1970s that Camilla was the woman he wanted to marry.  How does that possibly matter?  That was literally 35-40 years ago.  Today, Charles and Camilla seem very much in love and very happy together. 
I think he did know on one level that she was the right one for him.  but she had other interest and she did not IMO want to be his wife. I think that he felt she was right for him as a person, albeit she wasn't pretty or glamorous and wanted a quiet life... but he probably reasoned that he was young enough to get over her and find someone else who would be accepted as a royal bride and that he and Cam would always be friends...Then as he got older, her marriage wasn't going so well, he was still lonely in spite of other girlfriends and they became lovers again....But I think hat the proof of the pudding si that in spite of separations, other people etc, they still loved each other and were always good friends...

FanDianaFancy

Trying to bring it back to the center.

Past matters.  Past is part  of  present and future.  Past makes the present and present makes the future.

PC and Camilla  did not  just  fall from the sky  nor  was she  some old  girlfriend...her  divorced...she  divorced...and  well, they  just  deicded to rekindle their  relationship  from their 20's. A  sweet, old  romance  all  nice and innocent and wrapped  in a  Tiffanys  blue box  with a bow  on it.
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Nazi reference  is too  strong. That is really never good  to use  as  an analogy  for things.
Things like that subject  are  never  really  good  to use as an analogy.
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If Prince  wanted to marry Camilla Shand back then in mid 1970's, He, HRH,  PofW, future KofE, could have.  It could have been spun by  LordMountbatten, TPTB,  others.  She  was not  like in WS  case-American, old, infertiel, ugly, 2x or divorced, manly looking,  jetsetter  or I should say shipsetter,  involved in some  kinky stuff  with the Vanderbilt  girl by marriage and her  sisters , the twins, and all those  types, etc.
Camila was : British, outer fringe of nobility, connected, had some noble  in her on her mother's  side I think,  connection  with  her grandmother as mistress #1  to  past King, good  gossip story there  could have been spun in her favor and PC's that he wanted her  in marriage  and not  the other way, educated, Protestant, British, military man's daughter, etc.
PC  is  HRH and HRH  gets what  HRH wants  for the most part, 99.999 of the time.
NO,  LordM,  QEII,PPhillip, QMother, TPTB   etc. perhaps would  not  have wanted her  BUT  PC  could have won and demanded them over. Truely , the girl with a  past thing  sounds   more than what it was.  Does anyone  really think  LadySarahS,  Anabell whoever  of the nobility, had  not  had  intimate times with  boyfriends?
All of these women were of PC's age group. The pill was  still fairly new  in the 1970's and liberating and  I guess Women's Lib movement of the 1970's  hit the  Upper Classes of TUK as well.
My opinion here.
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PMaragaret wanted to marry  that man but  it  was a different  day and time and she was BORN HRH, Princess via bloodline, but he was  divorced and not good enough for her.   Being the spolit  HRH Princess she was as  all HRH  people are because  how can they not be, she went on and made her silly, childlike tantrum and married someone  not  worthy of her.  Did  PMaragaret  have intimate times with  what's his name , the first  guy and the divorced one?  YEP!!!  I think that is a  yes.

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PC  , I am sure of this, just common sense, was not ready to marry Camilla  or anyone  until he was ready and needed  to and finished  having all his  fun..so to speak. Being P, HRH, it  would have  STUPID, SILLY  of him not to sample every woman there on Earth he wanted to, LOL. He did and  he did it well!! From starletts (Susan George) to  nobility girls ( Camilla S  no doubt to who knows)  to arranged dates for PR /gossip and who knows what else, (Princess Caroline) and  on.
He was a PRINCE  and The HRH Prince for God's sake!!!!!!!!!

I bet PAnne had  her intimate times with boyfriends  before  she married  MP.  What, was there any man who would have not wanted to marry  PAnne  because of her past? No!  She  WAS PRINCESS via Blood.  She still IS. Always will be!!  HRH. Rules not  apply  to  those BORN HRH as to those in the Kingdom of  rank and peerage not born HRH!!!   600 or so years ago, then, now, forever!
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amabel

Quote from: lilibet80 on September 19, 2014, 06:18:18 PM
Quote from: sandy on September 19, 2014, 03:08:46 PM
That is not what Charles himself reported to his authorized biographer. He said he was not "ready" for marriage and did not tell Camilla to wait for him when he went to sea. When Charles cooperated on his bio with Mr Dimbleby he was not feeling very loving to his parents (to say the least) and if he felt his mother

There you go again describing his feelings and decisions and choices.  There is a difference when a man in his twenties like Charles, and a man in his forties like the DOW.  Camilla would never have been acceptable as a future queen in the 1970s and Charles knew it.  He would never go on television and discuss what his mother and father would have said if he asked for Camilla to be his queen.  He may have been angry and resentful but he knew his boundaries. 

Well I think the queen was not 100% behind the marriage even in the 2000s, because of all the fuss. I think that she's very old fashioned, and while I think she was not totally against the marriage and wanted Charles to be happy, she DID feel ti wasn't the best idea and that she didn't really like the idea of his marrying anyone.. esp the woman who was his long time mistress during his marriage.  But I thinks she realised that the general public didn't care very much now some years after Di's death, and that it was better given that the church would not crown him if he were living with Camilla, that he should marry her...
it was only probably because Charles DID push gradually for Cam to be accepted as his live in companion over the years and the public gradually came to accept it, that the queen gave in