Diana General Chat #2

Started by LouisFerdinand, July 31, 2017, 01:24:40 AM

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LouisFerdinand

When was Diana's first lady-in-waiting assigned to her? When she became engaged to Prince Charles? Or after the wedding to Prince Charles?


Trudie

Anne Beckwith-Smith was appointed as her first Lady in waiting a few months after the wedding.



Duch_Luver_4ever

Hey @Curryong did you mean perhaps to post this on the new digest I started??? :flower:
"No other member of the Royal Family mattered that year, or I think for the next 17 years, it was just her." Arthur Edwards, The Sun Photographer, talking about Diana's impact.

sandy

Diana got along fine with Anne Beckwith Smith (who recently was on a documentary about Diana).

LouisFerdinand

Would there have been controversy if both Princess Diana's sisters, Lady Sarah and Lady Jane had been appointed as Ladies-in-waiting?


sandy

#5
They were busy with their families when Diana got married and her first years as Princess. They did accompany Diana on some appearances . In the meantime I found this:

Yvonne's Royalty Home Page: Diana, Princess of Wales' Ladies-in-Waiting

amabel

Of course there would not have been controversy.  however since niehter of thtem were professional courtiers and were married with young children, it was certialy better that Diana had a helper who was experienced with court life and able to educate and assist her.  And it is probably best not to work with family though Diana did sometimes use her sisters as unoffiical ladies in waiting in later years.

Curryong

Certainly Sarah was Diana's Lady in Waiting for some time. I remember her  being out on engagements with Diana. Both sisters had their children in the years 1980 to 1989, including when William and Harry were growing up. Two daughters each as well as a son. How Diana must have envied them! Charles Spencers offspring were a lot younger, though I can remember Kitty Spencer clubbing with Harry on a couple of occasions when she was in her late teens.

The brothers had quite an age range of cousins really, some a few years older, (the Phillips) some a bit younger (the Yorks and Sarah's younger daughter, the Earl's children) as well. Edward's children are very much younger.

I can't remember Jane being a L-I-W. Maybe it would have been considered a bit off for Jane to do it, considering her husband was Assistant Private Secretary to Her Maj for most of those years. Later on there seem to have been strains, due to Robert Fellowes' role during the time of the War of the Wales and then the divorce negotiations. Sarah was always rather sparky of course , and there may well have been times when she didn't want to serve as public handmaiden to her younger sister!

sandy

It was nice to see Diana spend time with her family from time to time with photos of Diana and the boys with the Spencers.

Duch_Luver_4ever

Yes @Curryong  I bet there were lots of high spirited convos between the two of them over the years on engagements. I recall one time they were going to just let Diana in to see someone ill, and she wanted Sarah in as well to lift the spirits.

I do like the pics of the three of them laughing in the back of a car, nice to see at least some laughs given the rocky road the three of them had over the years.

While I doubt she'd talk like her sister, it would be interesting to have Sarah interviewed on how she felt about her sister getting what her old beau (yes , yes other posters, i know, she was still upset over her breakup and wanting duke of Westminster, but im sure she thought once or twice about as she said SOMETHING LIKE I thought this would all be mine, she might not have wanted Charles, but his wealth???). Then as years passed, did she feel a bit of for the grace of god there go I, and/or be careful what you wish for, and if she did find herself in Dianas spot, how would she have handled Camilla, fiery or pragmatic?

It would be right up there with Interviewing Jane over being between Diana and Fellows during the worst of the Wales war.
"No other member of the Royal Family mattered that year, or I think for the next 17 years, it was just her." Arthur Edwards, The Sun Photographer, talking about Diana's impact.

LouisFerdinand



TLLK

#11
Here is a complete list of Diana's eight ladies in waiting: From Yvonne's Royalty Page

Mrs. George Alston-Roberts-West (n?e Hazel Elizabeth Margaret Cook)
Born: 23 May 1944
Parents: Lieutenant-Colonel Sir Thomas Cook and Gweneth Margaret Jones
Spouse: Lieutenant-Colonel George Arthur West (great-grandson of the 1st Duke of Westminster)
Notes:
? Extra Lady-in-Waiting from 1981.*

* Buckingham Palace announced her appointment on 25 September 1981. It was published in The London Gazette of 6 October 1981.

The Honourable Mrs. Vivian Baring (n?e Lavinia Gweneth Baring)
Born: 1 August 1951
Parents: Sir Mark Baring and Victoria (Vita) Russell
Spouse: Honourable Vivian Baring (younger son of the 3rd Earl of Cromer)
Notes:
? Lavinia and Vivian are second cousins.
? Extra Lady-in-Waiting 1981-91, then Lady-in-Waiting 1991-92.*

* Buckingham Palace announced her (original) appointment on 25 September 1981. It was published in The London Gazette of 6 October 1981.

Miss Anne Honor Mary Beckwith-Smith
Born: 1951
Parents: Major Peter Beckwith-Smith and Annabel Newman (daughter of Sir Cecil Newman, 2nd Baronet)
Notes:
? Anne is unmarried.
? Lady-in-Waiting 1981-97.*
? Appointed L.V.O. (Lieutenant of the Royal Victorian Order) 1990.

* Buckingham Palace announced her appointment on 25 September 1981. It was published in The London Gazette of 6 October 1981.

Viscountess Campden (n?e Sarah Rose Winnington)
Born: 29 April 1951
Parents: younger daughter of Colonel Thomas Winnington (brother of Sir Francis Winnington, 6th Baronet) and Lady Betty Marjorie Anson (daughter of the 4th Earl of Lichfield)
Spouse: Anthony Baptist Noel, styled by courtesy Viscount Campden, son and heir of the 5th Earl of Gainsborough
Notes:
? Extra Lady-in-Waiting (from at least 1985), then Lady-in-Waiting from 1991-97.
? Appointed L.V.O. (Lieutenant of the Royal Victorian Order) 1996.

Mrs. James Lonsdale (n?e Laura Monica Greig)
Born: 16 December 1960
Parents: Sir Henry Louis Carron Greig and Monica Kathleen Stourton (sister of the 5th Earl of Gainsborough)
Spouse: James (Jamie) Leopold Lonsdale
Notes:
? Laura's eldest daughter, Leonora Diana Fiona Lonsdale (b. 14 June 1986) is a goddaughter of the late Diana, Princess of Wales.
? Extra Lady-in-Waiting 1989-91, then Lady-in-Waiting 1991-97.*

* Her original appointment was published in The London Gazette of 26 May 1989, to date from 25 May 1989.

Miss Alexandra Mary Loyd (later Mrs. Duncan Byatt)
Born: 14 October 1961
Parents: Sir Julian St. John Loyd (grandson of the 9th Viscount Middleton) and Philippa Mary Emma Steel
Spouse: Duncan Byatt (younger son of Sir Hugh Byatt)
Notes:
? Sir Julian was land agent to HM The Queen at Sandringham from 1964 to 1991.
? Alexandra and Duncan married in February 1995.
? Extra Lady-in-Waiting from 1986-91, then Lady-in-Waiting from 1991-97.*

Lady Sarah McCorquodale (n?e Honourable Elizabeth Sarah Lavinia Spencer)
Born: 19 March 1955
Parents: Edward John Spencer, 8th Earl Spencer and the Honourable Frances Ruth Burke Roche (younger daughter of the 4th Baron Fermoy)
Spouse: Neil Edmund McCorquodale
Notes:
? Lady Sarah is Diana's eldest sister.
? Extra Lady-in-Waiting 1992-97.*

* Her appointment was published in The London Gazette of 13 March 1992.

Mrs. Max Pike (n?e Jean Mary Howard)
Born: 28 July 1947
Parents: Major-General Lord Michael Fitzalan Howard (brother of the 17th Duke of Norfolk) and Jean Marion Hamilton-Dalrymple
Spouse: Max Eben Lecky Pike
Notes:
? Extra Lady-in-Waiting 1986-91, then Lady-in-Waiting 1991-97.*

LouisFerdinand

If Princess Diana had either her sister Lady Sarah or Lady Jane be a lady-in-waiting, would the press have declared that Diana was not letting some other lady fill the position?


Curryong

Not in those days. The media was much more deferential then than it is now, and the tabloids were love with Diana the majority of the time anyway. They wouldn't be jumping up and down about ladies in waiting, IMO.

amabel

Quote from: Curryong on November 16, 2019, 12:37:51 AM
Not in those days. The media was much more deferential then than it is now, and the tabloids were love with Diana the majority of the time anyway. They wouldn't be jumping up and down about ladies in waiting, IMO.
just wasn't going to happen. Diana needed a professional woman to guide her.. not a married sister.. Sarah was volatile and Jane while she knew more about court life was busy with her young family.  I think it was much better that she had someone who was intelligent, familiar with royal life and capable of detachment

Princess Cassandra

Quote from: amabel on November 16, 2019, 12:52:48 PM
just wasn't going to happen. Diana needed a professional woman to guide her.. not a married sister.. Sarah was volatile and Jane while she knew more about court life was busy with her young family.  I think it was much better that she had someone who was intelligent, familiar with royal life and capable of detachment
Well put, Amabel

TLLK

#16
John Travolta: ?Dancing with Diana was one of the highlights of my life? ? Royal Central

QuoteActor John Travolta has revealed that his favourite moment of the 1980s was when he danced with Princess Diana at the White House.

Speaking to Good Morning America back in 2016, Mr Travolta reflected on his moment with the Princess of Wales at a gala in 1985.

?That was one of the highlights of my life,? he told the interviewer. ?So that?s probably the best moment of the eighties.?

The Prince and Princess of Wales were on a visit to the United States in November 1985 when they attended a White House Gala on 11 November, during the presidency of Ronald Reagan. First Lady Nancy Reagan urged Travolta to dance with Diana, stating that it was her wish to do so.

Mr Travolta was invited to the event, and danced with Diana to the music of one of his iconic films, Saturday Night Fever.

One of the best known photos of the late Diana, PssoW from the 1980's and her dress was one that was auctioned off for charity. :Jen:

Princess Diana?s Dress From Iconic Dance With John Travolta Is For Sale - YouTube

Princess Cassandra


LouisFerdinand

Anne Beckwith Smith received a splendid present from Princess Diana for her efforts in Australia, a large diamond clip decorated with a D and a set of diamond earrings to match.


LouisFerdinand

Three weeks before agreeing to the divorce in 1996, Princess Diana wore a plain gold band in place of her famous engagement ring.   
Which company made the gold ring?


TLLK

#20
@LouisFerdinand -Are you sure that it wasn't her wedding band? If it was her wedding band then I believe it was made by Clogau.

In the 20th century many of the Windsor wedding bands including Diana's were made of Welsh gold.

Gold of Royalty | British Royal Family and Welsh Gold | Clogau

QuoteSome members of the British Royal Family have used pure Welsh gold to create their wedding rings, since 1923. This tradition was founded by The Queen Mother, then Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, on her marriage to the Duke of York on 26th April, 1923.

Other members of the Royal Family that have had Welsh gold wedding rings include:

? 1923 The Queen Mother's marriage to King George VI
? 1947 Queen Elizabeth II marriage to Prince Phillip
? 1960 Princess Margaret?s marriage
? 1973 Princess Anne's marriage
? 1981 Prince Charles's marriage to Princess Diana
? 2005 Prince Charles's marriage to Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall
? 2011 Prince William's marriage to Catherine Middleton
? 2018 Prince Harry's marriage to Meghan Markle

Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth's very own wedding ring, from her marriage to The Duke of Edinburgh on 20th November 1947, is crafted from a nugget of pure Welsh gold from the Clogau St. David's gold mine.

The tradition of the British Royal Family using Welsh gold wedding rings was carried into its 95th year during the most recent royal wedding of Their Royal Highnesses, The Duke and Duchess of Sussex on 19th May, 2018.

Rare Welsh gold is contained within each piece of Clogau jewellery, making it some of the most exclusive jewellery in the world. The content of Welsh gold can be identified by the Welsh dragon stamp, and other unique marks that denote a genuine piece of Clogau.

LouisFerdinand

@TLLK, The book I was reading only idicated that the ring of the Princess was a plain gold band. No other specification was made.


Amabel2

Im not sure why she'd keep on her wedding ring if she had stopped wearing her engagment ring

Curryong

Quote from: Amabel2 on January 18, 2021, 02:35:50 PM
Im not sure why she'd keep on her wedding ring if she had stopped wearing her engagment ring

I'm not sure that she did? Do we know that Diana automatically stopped wearing her engagement ring on each and every occasion after her divorce? It was a huge and in several ways ungainly ring, that I'm sure felt uncomfortable to wear sometimes when Diana's weight went up and down.

Ive known several divorcees who ditched their engagement rings after divorce, too many unhappy memories. I didn't, as I was too fond of mine. When I remarried it went on the other hand occasionally for several years as my new engagement ring (sapphires, same stone) took pride of place on my left hand.

However, removing the wedding ring is a biggie for many divorcees and to be honest I haven't met many who have children who've done so. Walking around ringless on the left hand when their children are involved is a bit much for many people. On the other hand, I've known some, especially the childless who got rid of both rings as soon as possible after their divorce.

Amabel2

I have no idea what rings she wore.. I just was following what LF said which seems to be that Diana wore a plain gold band, presumably her wedding ring, in place of her sapphire engagement ring.