Kate Middleton: an old-fashioned royal-in-waiting

Started by wannable, April 17, 2011, 03:46:13 PM

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sandy

#25
The Queen Mum was very popular with the public and she knew who she was and was secure in the love her husband had for her, and she had for him, so I doubt the trembled in fear of "overshadowing" him. It was IMO a marriage of mutual respect. PBS (Public Broadcasting) named her one of the most three most popular royals of the twentieth century (Diana and Edward VIII were the other two). Vy viewing  clips of her I can see she had a warmth with the public and a gift and was popular.  The Queen Mum decidedly didn't work "behind the scenes." Nor was a "housewife." Soon after Elizabeth was born the Yorks (Elizabeth and Bertie) travelled ona  world tour. I would say the Queen Mum in her life was what is called a "force of nature."

Charles IMO had the flaw of jealousy early on. It was HIS problem not Diana's that he got jealous. Had Diana fumbled and stumbled she would have gotten tons of criticism by an all too eager press IMO. But she did very well (and isn't t hat the idea to do well and to relate well to the public?). And it wasn't the "media" if you look at documentaries of Diana and Charles in Wales, she would speak individually to each person and know just what to say. The media recorded it they didn't embellish anything.  Diana WAS sensitive to the issue as she told Bashir plus there is a clip of Diana wincing when Charles talked about "needing two wives" on walkabouts (rather a slap at Diana ';s popularity in the statement). Had CHarles been like his grandfather and appreciated his wife's popularity and felt her to be a complement to HIM, I think all would have been well. Saying Diana "liked the attention" is really not fair to her. The young woman was thrown into royal duties and didn't have the years of courtship Kate had. As she said it was "sink or swim" for her. I think as a young bride and new royal she really wanted to please Charles and the Firm by doing her best.  And she always had a work ethic even after things fell apart in the marriage.

I think a royal consort is much more than someone putting on a pretty dress and getting attention. Royal wives who were successes were noted for their warmth and grace and relating to the public and working on charitable causes.

Princess Pea

Kate certainly knows how to please her man running a bath for him ensuring he doesn't get too over tired of an evening and basically putting up with any flirtations along the way even turning a blind eye to his roving eye. This is a marriage made in heaven for him and she gets the Crown quite a nice satisfactory arrangement I would say. Infact  a perfect arrangement for the spouse of a future King if you look at history.

cinrit

Quote from: sandy on April 18, 2011, 03:46:02 PM
The Queen Mum was very popular with the public and she knew who she was and was secure in the love her husband had for her, and she had for him, so I doubt the trembled in fear of "overshadowing" him.

I don't think it was a matter of her trembling in fear of overshadowing her husband.  It's simply that the consort defers to the monarch, as Prince Philip does with the present Queen.  It's a matter of recognizing who the monarch is, and who the consort is.  I think Iseult hit the nail on the head with the case of Charles and Diana.  Whether anyone likes it or not, the "star" is the Royal.  When one marries into the Royal Family, they need to recognize that this comes with the territory; they're not on equal footing.  Even if the Royal wants to put the consort on equal footing, they're not in reality.  I suppose that's difficult for we modern women to accept, but that's the way it is. 

QuoteSaying Diana "liked the attention" is really not fair to her.

But she really kinda did ...

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

Wickedly Good

The running of the bath seems a little too personal to be sharing, but does illustrate a point rather effectively.  Honestly, I think each couple is different and to each their own.  Would not be my choice and is a little off-putting to hear that maybe what William wants in a partner, but so be it I suppose.  Sounds like Kate is very attuned to William's needs and that is apparently what he wants.  More  power to them.

As for Diana and attention, I feel that you have to look at the whole picture as to why she may have sought attention from the public and enjoyed it.  I personally feel that was not her intent at the outset of her marriage and I believe she would gladly have given up some of the public adulation, for the support and love she craved from her husband.  That was not to be and so she got it and used it, adeptly I might add, from the public.  I honestly think at the start, she was ill-equipped to deal with the out pouring of admiration from the public in terms of putting Charles first and he clearly was not prepared for that.

sandy

I think anyone likes feeling a sense of accomplishment. Diana never did any such public appearances pre engagement and perhaps felt happy because she got positive reaction from the public. She it should be recalled put herself down calling herself "thick as a plank." I think she had insecurity issues but she still appealed to the public who more or less identified with her. Diana had to both be a wife and mother to senior royals but also to at least work competently at royal duties. She excelled in them.

Charles had a long bachelorhood and he had to get used to having a wife AND a partner who worked with him on royal duties and appearances.. I think he was raised to think the sun rose and set on him by his Grandmother and was surrounded by flattering courtiers. He found it offputting to have a lot of attention paid to Diana IMO but I think the problem is that he felt resentment towards Diana which helped poison the relationship as the years went on. He should have done a bit more reflecting on this before getting jealous of Diana. Would he have wanted an awkward consort whom few liked? Perhaps in a way it was a no win situation for Diana.

What bothers me about the running the bath story is that no similar stories seem to appear in the press about WIlliam doing things for her (except he did say he did say cooked from time to time). But both parties in a relationship should do things for each other not the wife having to please the husband. It goes both ways.

sandy

Quote from: cinrit on April 18, 2011, 05:17:53 PM
Quote from: sandy on April 18, 2011, 03:46:02 PM
The Queen Mum was very popular with the public and she knew who she was and was secure in the love her husband had for her, and she had for him, so I doubt the trembled in fear of "overshadowing" him.

I don't think it was a matter of her trembling in fear of overshadowing her husband.  It's simply that the consort defers to the monarch, as Prince Philip does with the present Queen.  It's a matter of recognizing who the monarch is, and who the consort is.  I think Iseult hit the nail on the head with the case of Charles and Diana.  Whether anyone likes it or not, the "star" is the Royal.  When one marries into the Royal Family, they need to recognize that this comes with the territory; they're not on equal footing.  Even if the Royal wants to put the consort on equal footing, they're not in reality.  I suppose that's difficult for we modern women to accept, but that's the way it is. 

QuoteSaying Diana "liked the attention" is really not fair to her.

But she really kinda did ...

Cindy

Philip though has always been his own man so to speak and the QUeen did put him in charge of the household and he had a major say in raising the children they had (schools they attended, etc.)

The Queen Mum when Consort similarly was her own person and through her being the monarch's wife and consort, excelled in her duties and had her own personality and talents which complemented her husband. She wasn't exactly a walk two steps behind type she had a formidable personality in her own right and the two worked well as a team, totally in sync.

cinrit

Quote from: sandy on April 18, 2011, 07:26:26 PM
What bothers me about the running the bath story is that no similar stories seem to appear in the press about WIlliam doing things for her (except he did say he did say cooked from time to time). But both parties in a relationship should do things for each other not the wife having to please the husband. It goes both ways.

But that's your own personal vision of a relationship.  Not every relationship is the same, not every couple has the same expectations of each other.  If this works for William and Kate, who are we to judge it since it seems to work for them?

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

sandy

I just am reporting what I read in the papers.   I don't thnk a relationship is all that functional if the woman does all the work in pleasing the man. Why not the opposite way too. Sooner or later resentment creeps in if this imbalance continues too long. IMO anyway

cinrit

Quote from: sandy on April 18, 2011, 10:55:06 PM
I just am reporting what I read in the papers.   I don't thnk a relationship is all that functional if the woman does all the work in pleasing the man. Why not the opposite way too. Sooner or later resentment creeps in if this imbalance continues too long. IMO anyway

Again, that's your personal vision of a relationship.  Different strokes for different folks.  William and Kate are happy with the arrangement.  It's not up to us to enforce our idea of the perfect relationship onto them. 

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

leogirl

#34
I don't think Diana would be the worst person to emulate. Of course Kate should be her own person, but Diana made the monarchy more modern. She made people interested and brought attention to all sorts of causes that were taboo just to talk about, such as HIV/AIDS.

The problem wasn't that Diana was young or energetic, it was that her husband became jealous of her. People wanted to meet his young and beautiful wife and, instead of being a mature adult and seeing it as a compliment to him and a good reflection on him, he grew resentful of the attention she got.

I hope William is mature enough to see that people liking Kate isn't bad for him, it's good that he chose a popular wife, if she becomes popular like Diana was (only time will tell).

William and Kate are "happy" now but there have been numerous breakups in their early years and at one point William cheated on Kate and Kate's parents arranged Bonfire Night to get them back together. Kate might grow to resent that it's always about William, especially when she gets pregnant and hormonal. It's not healthy to have one person always pleasing the other without reciprocation. And based on William's dragging his feet (took almost 7 years to propose) and using expensive military equipment for his personal use, I'm guessing he is a narcissist and won't stand for it when Kate actually needs him.

dianab

#35
Quote from: sandy on April 18, 2011, 03:46:02 PM
Charles IMO had the flaw of jealousy early on. It was HIS problem not Diana's that he got jealous. Had Diana fumbled and stumbled she would have gotten tons of criticism by an all too eager press IMO. But she did very well (and isn't t hat the idea to do well and to relate well to the public?). And it wasn't the "media" if you look at documentaries of Diana and Charles in Wales, she would speak individually to each person and know just what to say. The media recorded it they didn't embellish anything.  Diana WAS sensitive to the issue as she told Bashir plus there is a clip of Diana wincing when Charles talked about "needing two wives" on walkabouts (rather a slap at Diana ';s popularity in the statement). Had CHarles been like his grandfather and appreciated his wife's popularity and felt her to be a complement to HIM, I think all would have been well. Saying Diana "liked the attention" is really not fair to her. The young woman was thrown into royal duties and didn't have the years of courtship Kate had. As she said it was "sink or swim" for her. I think as a young bride and new royal she really wanted to please Charles and the Firm by doing her best.  And she always had a work ethic even after things fell apart in the marriage.

100% AGREE
The fact is a beautiful and glamurous woman will always overshadow her husband.
But if the husband have sense the enough he would taken advantage in better way possible.
Who choice who's THE STAR is the public and press.

Quote from: milena on April 18, 2011, 12:59:46 PM
I'm sure he loves her , but I still doubt that it has more to do with comfort,friendship and trust.I don't perceive it as a big love story as press try to make us believe it is..

Her whole life is built on making him comfortable and at ease,preparing everything down to his bath ...I think that is the key point which made kate an indispensable for william..She is like his left arm which he can't live without..

But it it still not my idea of true love..

RF is not looking for the ideal wife for William tthey are looking for the ideal consort whose lack of perspnal ambition is  perceived as a good thing,who always remains two steps back without stirring up any sort of problem,kow tow do their demands without questioning...


:goodpost:

@leogirl
:goodpost:
:thumbsup:

FanDianaFancy

Quote from: cinrit on April 18, 2011, 08:13:09 PM
Quote from: sandy on April 18, 2011, 07:26:26 PM
What bothers me about the running the bath story is that no similar stories seem to appear in the press about WIlliam doing things for her (except he did say he did say cooked from time to time). But both parties in a relationship should do things for each other not the wife having to please the husband. It goes both ways.

But that's your own personal vision of a relationship.  Not every relationship is the same, not every couple has the same expectations of each other.  If this works for William and Kate, who are we to judge it since it seems to work for them?

Cindy

I think sandy  implied it works both ways.  I think she  is saying  for them, good for them. I think she is saying that we  don't   what  he  does for her other  than   the  cooking story. More has been leaked about what Kate does  for him.
sandy  is   judging  .
PW is  Willie to Kate.  Kate  is Babykins  to PW.
Personally,  I think these  two  have  the  right stuff  for a  marriage  and  partnership.  They  fit  each  other.

I agree with sandy on the QE and  King  E (parents  of QEII).
I also agree  with  her about C and  D. It is   a fact that was just one of  all the BIG problems  they had  early in that marriage  of three people.
PD  did not set out  to overshadow him.  Her  personality  just took  over. The public's curiosity just  took over.
Her  suppoort  for doing her job  just  took over.  Same goes for the  late QE.
This is not politically correct  ,but PD and the QE look's took over. The  late QE was a stunning woman in her day.
I think  PW knows he is  PW and will be strong  in his maraige with K, because,yes, like Diana and the Late QE, Kate is going to overshadow him.
If PW did not want this, he should have  married  someone  dull in  personality. Frumpy dumpy in style.  Un shapely. Thin  or fat. I know  it  is not politcially correct, but  it is true  so   also  someone  plain  and  /or  not very attractive in looks. Someone born of the nobility too where  you  wouldn't have  this fairytale story.
For C and  C,there  is   sort   of a second coming  of  Diana . Like it  or not.

FanDianaFancy

leogirl,  I agree.
I have  also said  as have many, 1000's of times, what if.
If, if, C had just changed. Met D half way.  If both had given  a good  try at some point  before there  was no  hope  on both  parts, TALK  ABOUT  A POWER COUPLE!!!
The  Beauty  and  The Brain.
Unstopable.
Major  influence  in  the world.
Being The BRF within  The BRF with their sons and now,Kate,grandkids.
Whao!!

amabel

Quote from: leogirl on April 19, 2011, 12:25:24 AM
William and Kate are "happy" now but there have been numerous breakups in their early years and at one point William cheated on Kate and Kate's parents arranged Bonfire Night to get them back together. Kate might grow to resent that it's always about William, especially when she gets pregnant and hormonal.

well she waited 7 or 8 years for him so I'd imagien that seh's not very concerned if he is selfish, or if he took a logn time to propose.  wheree's the evdicne htat W cheated on Kate by teh way?  ANd most parents, if their daughter's boyfriend cheated on her and she split up with him, would be only too pleased and encourage her to forget about him, not try to get them back togehter again

cinrit

Quote from: FanDianaFancy on April 19, 2011, 01:13:34 AM
I think sandy  implied it works both ways.

She implied that it is her opinion that it should work both ways.  William and Kate's relationship is their vision of their relationship, and if it works for them ... which it obviously is doing ... I don't understand complaints about it.

Cindy


Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

sandy

#40
Cindy, it is all speculation. And again, let me explain what I meant in my post. Nobody knows how the couple thinks. Maybe Kate would like HIM to run HER bath or do things for her and not have her do all the work in pampering the partner. Just saying. Nobody knows "what works" or "doesn't work" for t hem or their mode of thinking. Again it's speculation only. I actually don't know  any couple where one "does all the work" in doing for the other. I think when the husband forgets an anniversary or a birthday and the wife always remembers his and cooks special meals, she may (if she is human) get annoyed at why he forgets about things special to her and important events. Unless women are robots, of course if a husband forgets things or is less attentive than she is to him. of course there will be some annoyance, even if she pretends it doesn't matter.  The dynamics may of course change after they get married and she will signal that she would like some attention paid to her and TLC too.

sandy

Quote from: leogirl on April 19, 2011, 12:25:24 AM
I don't think Diana would be the worst person to emulate. Of course Kate should be her own person, but Diana made the monarchy more modern. She made people interested and brought attention to all sorts of causes that were taboo just to talk about, such as HIV/AIDS.

The problem wasn't that Diana was young or energetic, it was that her husband became jealous of her. People wanted to meet his young and beautiful wife and, instead of being a mature adult and seeing it as a compliment to him and a good reflection on him, he grew resentful of the attention she got.

I hope William is mature enough to see that people liking Kate isn't bad for him, it's good that he chose a popular wife, if she becomes popular like Diana was (only time will tell).

William and Kate are "happy" now but there have been numerous breakups in their early years and at one point William cheated on Kate and Kate's parents arranged Bonfire Night to get them back together. Kate might grow to resent that it's always about William, especially when she gets pregnant and hormonal. It's not healthy to have one person always pleasing the other without reciprocation. And based on William's dragging his feet (took almost 7 years to propose) and using expensive military equipment for his personal use, I'm guessing he is a narcissist and won't stand for it when Kate actually needs him.

Thank you leogirl. I totally agree.  Kate if she wanted to marry him made sure she did things to ensure that the relationship would last. Other women might have thrown in the towel after the man doesn't commit after a few years. But Kate perhaps felt this sort of behavior (running baths, being available for him) would ensure something permanent. Though there may be some resentments going on. She didn't appear too thrilled during the breakup (and in the engagement interview made this evident).

Charles unfortunately didn't see Diana as a compliment to him (wow, he must be something that someone as special as Diana would marry him--what a lucky guy). Instead, he thought of her as "competition". I hope William sees Kate as a partner and happy that she's popular and well able to perform royal duties.

cinrit

No one can put on an act for eight years.  If there were resentments, they would have come out in that time.  I just don't see the purpose of focusing on negative possibilities.  William and Kate have been together for nearly a decade.  They've had their ups and downs, as do all couples.  They're still together.  They're happy enough together to want to get married, so why aren't the positives being focused on?  Where is the negativity coming from ... they're getting married so there must be discontent and unhappiness between them?  Does not compute.

And what does Charles and Diana have to do with Kate being old-fashioned? :doh:

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

sandy

#43
Read the beginnings of the thread, Diana and Charles names come up (and I didn't start it). The thread started with a post that read and I quote:

"For a royal role model, Kate Middleton would be wise to look not to Diana, Princess of Wales but the late Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother, finds Olga Craig"


The point is relationships are not sheer bliss there are issues (trifles to matters of huge importance) couples need to work through. If it were sheer bliss there would be something very wrong with the relationship. And during the 8 year courtship there were or course some ups and downs it wasn't just sheer heaven for them. And dating and marriage are two different things for a couple. The K and W dynamics could very well change once they are married.

milena

#44
Quote from: cinrit on April 19, 2011, 02:07:47 PM
They're still together.  They're happy enough together to want to get married, so why aren't the positives being focused on?  Where is the negativity coming from ... they're getting married so there must be discontent and unhappiness between them?  Does not compute.

And what does Charles and Diana have to do with Kate being old-fashioned? :doh:

Cindy

Cindy it's not just only focusing on negative possibilities or being evil.IT has more to do with their backgrouns which was far from being a heaven as it has been tried to be painted as one..

They're getting married which means a lot on both sides,but it doesn't guarantee a healthy,long lasting marriagw after an 8 year long turbid relationship...

It's quite romantic if both sides made sacrifices for their love but here  W pulls the strings and decides on everyhing when Kate dedicates her life to please him without questioning anything..

IMo,it2s an old fashioned relationship with an old fashioned couple
Quote from: amabel on April 19, 2011, 05:50:28 AM
Quote from: leogirl on April 19, 2011, 12:25:24 AM

wheree's the evdicne htat W cheated on Kate by teh way?  ANd most parents, if their daughter's boyfriend cheated on her and she split up with him, would be only too pleased and encourage her to forget about him, not try to get them back togehter again

If those parents are exceedingly ambitious and anxious with bettering themselves and their financial status in order to belong to an upper social class,and if their daughter's boyfirend is prince william ,the guy who can make them world famous celebrities,they can do anything including trying to persuade their daughter to make up with her boyfriend who cheated on and humiliated her...

cinrit

Quote from: milena on April 19, 2011, 08:11:05 PM
Cindy it's not just only focusing on negative possibilities or being evil.IT has more to do with their backgrouns which was far from being a heaven as it has been tried to be painted as one..

They're getting married which means a lot on both sides,but it doesn't guarantee a healthy,long lasting marriagw after an 8 year long turbid relationship...

Well, let's first establish that I didn't say anything about anything or anyone being "evil".  That's a word I very rarely use at all.  And I never said their background was heaven.  No relationship is.  I don't think it was "turbid", though.  If I were getting married and people started talking about the possibility that the marriage wasn't going to work, I would just wonder why they felt the need to focus on the possibility that it would fail rather than the possibility that it would work, so I wonder the same now with William and Kate.  That's just my opinion. 

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.