Diana's former chef says her grave is being neglected

Started by PrincessOfPeace, August 17, 2014, 04:05:33 AM

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amabel

Quote from: Canuck on August 21, 2014, 10:12:41 AM
And, IMO, as she would have wanted. 
of course. I think that tht goes without sayig..

sandy

What Diana "wanted" went with her to her grave. I don't know if any such assumptions about what Diana wanted can ever be made. She perhaps thought naturally she'd live to a ripe old age and maybe William would have her buried on royal property right up there with Camilla.

Canuck

Diana wasn't Royal when she died, sandy.

And you're right, we can't know for sure what she would have wanted.  But we know she wasn't find of the Royal family when she died, and I personally believe she would have been happy with the choice of her family home rather than something like Westminster Abbey.

sandy

She was a royal but did not have the HRH. She kept her title Diana, Princess of Wales so in effect she was still a Princess. And the mother of a future King. You can't get any more royal than that.  It is subject to speculation if she will get the HRH back posthumously. And in fact during the lead up to the funeral I actually read that Frogmore was considered as a burial place which is a Royal Burial place but her brother and the Spencers vetoed it. And BTW Walllis Simpson is buried in a royal grave side by side with the Duke of Windsor. She like Diana lacked the HRH but was still considered royal. So yes, Diana was royal.

cinrit

The difference is the Duchess of Windsor was the widow of a Royal.  Diana was the divorced wife of a Royal.  Diana's title while married was HRH The Princess of Wales.  After the divorce, she was Diana, Princess of Wales ... no HRH and no "The".  Hard as it is for me to wrap my brain around, the "The" makes a world of difference.

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

Canuck

Not that any of this matters to the debate about her burial site (which, as you point out, was a decision made by the Spencers), but I don't think it's true that she was Royal when she died.  She was no longer a princess at that point -- she was called Diana, Princess of Wales because "Princess of Wales" was treated as equivalent to a surname from her marriage (and if she had remarried, she would have had to stop using it), but it no longer had the effect of designating her a princess (if it had, she would have been "the Princess of Wales" -- dropping "the" indicates she's no longer actually that position and that she's just using it as a surname).  And yes, she was mother to a future king.  That doesn't make her Royal.  If you're not born Royal, then it only comes from marriage, and once the marriage ends in divorce, so does your status as a Royal.

There are some interesting sources online about titles and how these designations work.  I find this kind of trivia fun, and I'd recommend checking out some of that stuff of you're similarly interested in how BRF titles work.

amabel

I'm sure she would not have wished to be buried iwht the RF.  She would have preferred to be with her own family on her private estate, where her sons could visit her in privacy. If she had remarried, she mgiht have chosen to be buried iwht her new husband's family..

FanDianaFancy

#57
To bring it to the center.

WE  ALL KNOW whe  she died she was  not HRH.
I  took it further in another post, her name really,  to be technical , was NOT  Diana, Princes of Wales. Princess  Diana ,no.  Absolutely no HRH.


Diana's name was  Lady Diana Frances Spencer at the the time of her  death  to be technical, if I am not mistaken.
Common terms  and incorrect from the media  and people were  Princess Diana or Diana , Princes of Wales. The People's Princess.

None of it matters . It  does not not matter if she  is called,  is, was called Frances Spencer. Diana  Frances. Barbie.  Dutchy Spencer.

HER SONS ARE HRH. :windsor1: That trumps just about  everything.   It  is  a  situation I  do not think the BRF  over centruies never had to deal with.  A divvorced  princess  of he  future K and mother to the heirs.  Henry 8, no.  Mary  was a bas*****. Elizabeth was a  bas****.   Kingy Henry  said so and so it was, LOL.  Something like that.

With PD...HER SONS ARE  HRH and when King William :windsor1:  is in power, what he says  will go.  Who knows?  In  20  or so years  when he  is KofE  is  a long time away and who knows what  he will do Move her?  Leave  her?  Push  for a park named for her?  When  he is KofE, maybe he will  move her grave to a more prominent  ,  royal place. Maybe he won't . Maybe  Fatty  Spencer's  son will not allow  it  or the fee to Althrope will be too much   money. 
Maybe King William will move his mother next  to his father and move  Princess Camila or Queen Camila elsewhere?   Maybe he won't. He will be able to do  anything he wants to.
Just as when  Camila dies  , if so before  PC  and even if PC  is  not King yet, when he is King Charles , goodness knows what  he will do for  Camila's  burial place . A special shrine ?  :angel: Clearance House renamed Camilla House?  Her death date made a Nat. Holiday in TUK and TCommonwealth?  Whatever , it  will all be  overly spectatcular  :banana: for woman  he :windsor1: loves. 

To me,  I posted somewhere  else here, PD's  body  should
have  been  placed  in a  more royal  grave  site.
SHE    :notworthy:  WAS MOTEHR of the future KofE  and  his brother, both HRH.   

THE MOTHER TRUMPS ALL!!!! Ask  Sarah Ferguson  , whatever name  among many  I cannot mention  :lol:, how  is that motehr thing working out  for her?   She  is MOTHER TO   B and  E and she  milks it for all she can  and will do for life. EVEN QEII  cannot  stop that and not even PPhillip cannot stop that.   She is here for all  life's moments  for B and  E  like their super birthdays' they  had  some years ago.
Rumor has it  SF/Fergie/CarzyGirl/ Budgy  was at Bamoral   for an August visit, but had to leave before PPhilip got there.  That is the deal, LOL. She  is barred form all BRF things and she  is not HRH, but anything BRF event for B and E, SHE MUST ATTEND.  When  HER DAUGHTERS   do get married, it  seems a long time   from now, Sarah or Fergie or Budgy or That Crazy Girl or whatever  will sit front and center with her ex  for THEIR daughters  ' weddings.

Wallis  "That Woman"  Simpson was a Nazi sympathizer who supported  and didn't she and Eddie David meet with Hitler? She ,like Camilla, were winners  in they got just what they wanted by any means necessary. Good for them I guess.

Goes to  show  how the BRF , TPTB, etc. really felt about PD's death. YES, Fatty  Spencer  saw  profit  could go his way. I just think it was  aslight  and not dignified enough  for PD's  place in histroy  there at her ancestral estate. Altrope is an odd, hard to reach place  for tourists . Correct?  They go to London and the  country sides  of the nobility...
When PD died, these  teen  boys really , I am sure, common sense, had no input about some things  like this.
I am sure TPTB, PC, PPhililip, The Spencers, and  especially  QEII  saw to it they  were told, maybe had  some input like choosing a  song for her  funeral  or a prayer.  Minor details. HRH, BRF , TPTB and even the nobility  were , of ourse, sad  for the  HRH Princes, but   BRF  and TTPB wanted this thing over and done ASAP!!!

Anyway, it is where  it is.   it is where it  will be until W  is K and THEN STILL, maybe he  will just leave  it be as is.

What I do not get again, is  how  some of us  won't give PD,LDS, That Ridiculous Creature , Barbie  a  right  to  be  placed before CPB Rotweiller   as  MOTHER to HRH, W n H.

This debate     :catfight: is  like when we  all  wondered  if PD were alive  , where would she have sat in the church  for HER SON'S wedding. Some of you  stoodfast and  said, since they were divorced..she was not HRH...she  was an  attention seeker....she was tall...she was blond..she was  everything BUT MOTHER TO HRH, PW that her place would have been with Spencer family,  with the celebs' group in the outer part, a pub in the East End, LOL,  or  outside on the street curb waving the Union Jack with the crowds, LOL!!
Some of us  said  that adult PH, HRH  would have had his mother front, center sitted with his father.    Common sense here. :wellduh:
PD's mother sat  with her father some of you said.

YES,  TRUE it  is moot discussion because she is dead.
True, YES, PD's  place of burial is  sort  of moot  discussion too because what is done is.

sandy

Quote from: Canuck on August 21, 2014, 02:49:32 PM
Not that any of this matters to the debate about her burial site (which, as you point out, was a decision made by the Spencers), but I don't think it's true that she was Royal when she died.  She was no longer a princess at that point -- she was called Diana, Princess of Wales because "Princess of Wales" was treated as equivalent to a surname from her marriage (and if she had remarried, she would have had to stop using it), but it no longer had the effect of designating her a princess (if it had, she would have been "the Princess of Wales" -- dropping "the" indicates she's no longer actually that position and that she's just using it as a surname).  And yes, she was mother to a future king.  That doesn't make her Royal.  If you're not born Royal, then it only comes from marriage, and once the marriage ends in divorce, so does your status as a Royal.

There are some interesting sources online about titles and how these designations work.  I find this kind of trivia fun, and I'd recommend checking out some of that stuff of you're similarly interested in how BRF titles work.

so what was she and if she was not a royal how come she was still called Princess of Wales? She was not on the royal calendar doing duties as an ex but just because she and Charles divorced did not make her not the mother of a future King.  And certainly she would have been front and center at Royal Events involving her Royal Sons.

The Queen apparently thought Diana a "royal" since she argued for Diana to be buried at Frogmore where royals are buried.

This is hairsplitting--the main thing was that had she lived she'd always be part of the family as William and Harry's mother. 

She was more royal than Camilla considering that Diana had royal children and Camilla never did and never will.

Double post auto-merged: August 21, 2014, 07:22:04 PM


Quote from: cinrit on August 21, 2014, 02:48:32 PM
The difference is the Duchess of Windsor was the widow of a Royal.  Diana was the divorced wife of a Royal.  Diana's title while married was HRH The Princess of Wales.  After the divorce, she was Diana, Princess of Wales ... no HRH and no "The".  Hard as it is for me to wrap my brain around, the "The" makes a world of difference.

Cindy

I knew somebody would bring this up. It's the same. Wallis was deprived of her HRH even after she married the Duke of Windsor.  Diana was deprived of the HRH too. Wallis was not the mother of a future King. Diana trumps Wallis that way despite the divorce.
If the Queen did not consider her "royal" why did she argue for burial at Frogmore with royals.

"The" makes no difference. It is hair splitting. I doubt William would have even thought of consigning his mother to "unroyal" seats at Westminster during his coronation.

Canuck

I agree that Diana had an important role as Will and Harry's mother, and that if she's lived she would have been in attendance at many Royal events.  But the fact is that she was not a Royal after her divorce.  As I said before, she was called Diana, Princess of Wales because "Princess of Wales" acts as a surname that she can retain after her divorce (but not if she remarries).  But she was no longer HRH and she was not "the Princess of Wales" -- and in the rules about titles and RF positions, that indicates she was no longer a princess and no longer a Royal.

Camilla, like her or not, is a Royal right now by virtue of being currently married to Charles.  She is "the Princess of Wales" (but the BRF, knowing the public's attachment to Diana in that role, uses her additional Duchess of Cornwall title as the preferred form of address for her in England).  If Camilla and Charles were to divorce, then She would become Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall (as well as Camilla, Princess of Wales, technically), just as Fergie is Sarah, Duchess of York.

cinrit

Sandy, she was still called "Princess of Wales" because, as Canuck explained, it was used as a surname.  She was allowed to use it until and unless she remarried, at which time she would have taken the surname of her new husband.  It's the same as though Mr. and Mrs. Smith were to divorce, Mrs. Smith would still be allowed to use that surname until she remarried. 

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

sandy

Princess is not a surname. If it were like the samples you used, she would have been Lady Diana Wales or something to that effect. The Lady would be her own title. But she was  still called a Princess after the divorce.


Quote from: Canuck on August 21, 2014, 07:28:14 PM
I agree that Diana had an important role as Will and Harry's mother, and that if she's lived she would have been in attendance at many Royal events.  But the fact is that she was not a Royal after her divorce.  As I said before, she was called Diana, Princess of Wales because "Princess of Wales" acts as a surname that she can retain after her divorce (but not if she remarries).  But she was no longer HRH and she was not "the Princess of Wales" -- and in the rules about titles and RF positions, that indicates she was no longer a princess and no longer a Royal.

Camilla, like her or not, is a Royal right now by virtue of being currently married to Charles.  She is "the Princess of Wales" (but the BRF, knowing the public's attachment to Diana in that role, uses her additional Duchess of Cornwall title as the preferred form of address for her in England).  If Camilla and Charles were to divorce, then She would become Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall (as well as Camilla, Princess of Wales, technically), just as Fergie is Sarah, Duchess of York.

Diana still is one up on Camilla because she gave birth to a future King. Camilla will never be ancestress of monarchs.

Wallis was not an HRH and had a title but she still got a royal burial next to her husband.

Arguably william would have restored Diana's HRH had she lived and when he became King.

PrincessOfPeace

Quote from: Canuck on August 21, 2014, 07:28:14 PM
I agree that Diana had an important role as Will and Harry's mother, and that if she's lived she would have been in attendance at many Royal events.  But the fact is that she was not a Royal after her divorce.  As I said before, she was called Diana, Princess of Wales because "Princess of Wales" acts as a surname that she can retain after her divorce (but not if she remarries).  But she was no longer HRH and she was not "the Princess of Wales" -- and in the rules about titles and RF positions, that indicates she was no longer a princess and no longer a Royal.

Camilla, like her or not, is a Royal right now by virtue of being currently married to Charles.  She is "the Princess of Wales" (but the BRF, knowing the public's attachment to Diana in that role, uses her additional Duchess of Cornwall title as the preferred form of address for her in England).  If Camilla and Charles were to divorce, then She would become Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall (as well as Camilla, Princess of Wales, technically), just as Fergie is Sarah, Duchess of York.

You're right Canuck, this is the correct style. When married Diana was the Princess of Wales and after her divorce she became Diana, Princess of Wales.

Canuck

Sandy, that's just not the case -- Fergie became Sarah, Duchess of York and not Lady Sarah York.  It know it looks kind of weird to consider "princess of Wales" or "duchess of York" as a surname, but that's how it works.

sandy

Princess is still a title not a surname. She was known as princess Diana still at the time she died.

Had she lived arguably she would have gotten the HRH restored and been buried with royals.

Canuck

She may have been called Princess Diana by members of the public, but officially it was specifically stated that she was NOT Princess Diana.  In fact, she wasn't even Princess Diana during her marriage -- she was HRH Diana, the Princess of Wales, because the title was her husband's and not hers.  Just as Kate is technically Princess William of Wales and will eventually become HRH Catherine, the Princess of Wales instead of Princess Catherine.

PrincessOfPeace

For example, there is only one The at a time. Kate is HRH The Duchess of Cambridge, if she and William divorce, she becomes Kate, Duchess of Cambridge and William's new wife would become HRH The Duchess of Cambridge.


Lady Adams

[mod] Can we move away from the topic of titles, and back onto the subject of the thread? If you want to continue discussing Diana's titles, I've created a new thread here: Titles of Diana :hug: :flower: [/mod]
"To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, and be nothing." --Elbert Hubbard, American writer

amabel

Quote from: Canuck on August 21, 2014, 08:01:19 PM
Sandy, that's just not the case -- Fergie became Sarah, Duchess of York and not Lady Sarah York.  It know it looks kind of weird to consider "princess of Wales" or "duchess of York" as a surname, but that's how it works.
it is a title, rather than strictly speaking a surname.  But it is the way that divorced and widowed peers wives are titled.  If Di had married the Duke of X, and been divorced, she'd be Diana Duchess of X,and his new wife would be THE duchess of X. Di would be entitled to sing her name as "Diana wales"... it is not a ROYAL title per se, the HRH was the important royal part of it and that was firmly removed from her.

Double post auto-merged: August 23, 2014, 02:59:12 AM


Quote from: Canuck on August 21, 2014, 01:30:40 PM
And you're right, we can't know for sure what she would have wanted.  But we know she wasn't find of the Royal family when she died, and I personally believe she would have been happy with the choice of her family home rather than something like Westminster Abbey.
of course she would.  The RF did not like her, she did not like them.  And the boys would not want her to be buried somewhere that was full of tourists, I'm sure they prefer to think that her grave Is a private place for them and her loved ones,

cinrit

QuoteWhy Diana's Chef Spilt the Beans Over Her Neglected Grave

Royal chef Darren McGrady had already started preparing Princess Diana's welcome home dinner when  he found out his beloved boss had been killed in a car crash in Paris. "At first  I thought it was some sort of sick joke, that it was Comic Relief or something," recalls the man who cooked for the Queen for a decade before becoming Diana's personal chef following her separation from Prince Charles in 1993.

"I actually drove to Kensington Palace with the ingredients in the back of the car because I could not believe she was dead."
......
Next Sunday, August 31, it will be 17 years since Diana died. Earlier this month Darren plucked up the courage to visit his former employer's grave at Althorp, the Spencer family seat in Northamptonshire, where Diana was buried in 1997. What he found there made headlines around the world last week after the Sunday Express revealed he had tweeted several pictures of the "neglected" memorial on the 450-acre estate belonging to Diana's brother Earl Spencer.

Darren, who lives in Dallas with wife Wendy and children Kelly, 18, Lexie, 14, and Harry, 10, said: "I did what I did for William and Harry because if that were my mother's grave, I would want to know.

More: Princess Diana's chef Darren McGrady talks about her grave | Royal | News | Daily Express

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

Lady Adams

"To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, and be nothing." --Elbert Hubbard, American writer

amabel


cinrit

You're welcome, LA. :flower:   Amabel, I thought the same thing.  Writing to them directly would seem to be the better route than going to the media. 

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

sandy

Quote from: amabel on August 22, 2014, 05:51:10 AM
Quote from: Canuck on August 21, 2014, 08:01:19 PM
Sandy, that's just not the case -- Fergie became Sarah, Duchess of York and not Lady Sarah York.  It know it looks kind of weird to consider "princess of Wales" or "duchess of York" as a surname, but that's how it works.
it is a title, rather than strictly speaking a surname.  But it is the way that divorced and widowed peers wives are titled.  If Di had married the Duke of X, and been divorced, she'd be Diana Duchess of X,and his new wife would be THE duchess of X. Di would be entitled to sing her name as "Diana wales"... it is not a ROYAL title per se, the HRH was the important royal part of it and that was firmly removed from her.

Double post auto-merged: August 23, 2014, 02:59:12 AM


Quote from: Canuck on August 21, 2014, 01:30:40 PM
And you're right, we can't know for sure what she would have wanted.  But we know she wasn't find of the Royal family when she died, and I personally believe she would have been happy with the choice of her family home rather than something like Westminster Abbey.
of course she would.  The RF did not like her, she did not like them.  And the boys would not want her to be buried somewhere that was full of tourists, I'm sure they prefer to think that her grave Is a private place for them and her loved ones,

Well the boys are part of the royal family and they loved their mother. I would not say everybody in the RF did not like her.

PrincessOfPeace

#74
Quote from: amabel on August 24, 2014, 05:35:33 PM
why didn't he write to wil and Harry?

Because he wouldn't get all this free publicity. Like Ken Warfe and others, I'm sure William and Harry have nothing to do with Darren Grady or anyone else who makes money off their dead mother's name.

Double post auto-merged: August 24, 2014, 08:06:39 PM


That came out wrong, I meant that Ken Warfe is another loser that uses Diana's name to make money for himself.