Diana meant business and Kate turned to most trusted designer

Started by sara8150, August 16, 2017, 01:54:18 AM

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sara8150

How she put her wardrobe to work, a tribute to Jackie O and why Kate turned to her most trusted designer: Power suits that showed Diana meant business
Power suits that showed Diana meant business | Daily Mail Online


Double post auto-merged: August 16, 2017, 02:00:22 AM


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Duch_Luver_4ever

lots of boomers may disagree but Jackie O wishes she was a Diana....
"No other member of the Royal Family mattered that year, or I think for the next 17 years, it was just her." Arthur Edwards, The Sun Photographer, talking about Diana's impact.

amabel


royalanthropologist

Both women had tragic lives. Diana died young and without ever finding "the right one". Most of her adult life was spent fighting for or against her husband the Prince of Wales. Jackie buried many relatives despite all the money. The Kennedys are a family with long and sustained problems.

Few people would like to lead their lives but many would love to have their opportunities...if you get what I mean.
"In the past, people were born royal. Nowadays, royalty comes from what you do"...Gianni Versace

amabel

that' does nto explain why Jackie would want to be Diana.  the only advantage I can see is that Diana was younger.  But Jackie while she had many tragedies in her life, was able to live her own life, whereas Diana, having married into a historic institution like te BRF, was far less free.  Why would Jackie swap her life for Diana's?  She had wealth and social positon.  She had been the wife of the most powerflul leader in the world. Diana had married into a family which had little power, albeit she had social status and great wealth, but marriage into that family or being part of that family means that your life is mapped out for you, you have duties in exchange for the privilege and you have little privacy. 

royalanthropologist

I do actually think Diana might have wanted to be a Jackie Kennedy in terms of being first lady. However Jackie would certainly not have wanted the kind of life that Diana ended up living.
"In the past, people were born royal. Nowadays, royalty comes from what you do"...Gianni Versace

sandy

Jackie had it pretty bad. She may very well would have traded her life for someone else's.  She had to play good wife and her husband even flirted with other women on their honeymoon. She married for security but Ari got fed up with her rather soon. And she was living with a man who still was married, at the end of her life. Nothing is perfect.


Quote from: royalanthropologist on August 16, 2017, 04:50:08 AM
Both women had tragic lives. Diana died young and without ever finding "the right one". Most of her adult life was spent fighting for or against her husband the Prince of Wales. Jackie buried many relatives despite all the money. The Kennedys are a family with long and sustained problems.

Few people would like to lead their lives but many would love to have their opportunities...if you get what I mean.

Jackie had a turbulent relationship with Ari Onassis. He returned to his mistress and was planning to divorce her. But before then he got very ill and died.  Jackie was living with someone who was still married at the end of her life.  They loved each other but there was no marriage.

She had a turbulent relationship with her first husband though played the good wife while he cheated rampantly on her. Her father in law had to talk her into staying in the marriage.

It is immaterial if Diana did not find "the one" because she was tragically dead at a young age. She was married and did have sons who loved and treasured her.  Even if she lived to 100 and did not find "the one" it does not mean her life was a failure.

Double post auto-merged: August 16, 2017, 11:23:46 AM


Quote from: amabel on August 16, 2017, 05:06:13 AM
that' does nto explain why Jackie would want to be Diana.  the only advantage I can see is that Diana was younger.  But Jackie while she had many tragedies in her life, was able to live her own life, whereas Diana, having married into a historic institution like te BRF, was far less free.  Why would Jackie swap her life for Diana's?  She had wealth and social positon.  She had been the wife of the most powerflul leader in the world. Diana had married into a family which had little power, albeit she had social status and great wealth, but marriage into that family or being part of that family means that your life is mapped out for you, you have duties in exchange for the privilege and you have little privacy. 

Jackie may have been happiest while doing things on her own. She was said to be very happy working as an editor for a publishing company and helped plan the JFK Library and campaigned to restore Grand Central Station.

She had two children she adored.

So maybe when she was single she was just as happy with her life.

royalanthropologist

Diana's life was not a failure but she was a very sad and troubled person to the very end. Her romantic life was never quite satisfactory. Like I said before, the love of children is very different from and no compensation for the love of a partner. They are very different things.

On paper at least, Diana looked that she had it all. The ultimate marriage, title and prestige. However very soon it all got lost. Once considered one of the most beautiful and desirable women in the world; Diana was publicly rejected by her husband and never seemed able to sustain a single romantic relationship for a long time. She was left an embittered divorced royal wife who embarked on a string of unsuitable and ultimately unsatisfying relationships. Her PR triumphs in the media were poor compensation for all she lacked and had lost.  Her sad end does not need repeating. Diana was the tragedienne of her time and forever showed that fairy tales do not always translate well in real life.

Jackie Onassis went through much and lost some fans when she dated Aristotle. Her husband was addicted to adultery but she was pragmatic about the whole thing. She may not have been married her last partner but she seemed happy with him. Getting a certificate of marriage is not always a precursor to marital bliss. You can be perfectly happy with a partner and never get married.

"In the past, people were born royal. Nowadays, royalty comes from what you do"...Gianni Versace

dianab

diana had her boyfriends whom were in love with her and she was in love with them. her relationships didnt last just few months... indeed she was for few years with them... like many 20/30-somethings have relationships that last between 2 and 4 years. Unfortunately diana was trapped in sham of a marriage (for most of her entire adult life) where she was frightened to lost  the custody of her sons.

sandy

Yes indeed. Diana had no hope of moving on all those years because divorce was discouraged. She was divorced only one year so it is premature to think that she would never have found a permanent relationship.  I don't think she was in any hurry to remarry after only one year of divorce at any rate.

Double post auto-merged: August 16, 2017, 01:25:56 PM


Quote from: royalanthropologist on August 16, 2017, 11:53:50 AM
Diana's life was not a failure but she was a very sad and troubled person to the very end. Her romantic life was never quite satisfactory. Like I said before, the love of children is very different from and no compensation for the love of a partner. They are very different things.

On paper at least, Diana looked that she had it all. The ultimate marriage, title and prestige. However very soon it all got lost. Once considered one of the most beautiful and desirable women in the world; Diana was publicly rejected by her husband and never seemed able to sustain a single romantic relationship for a long time. She was left an embittered divorced royal wife who embarked on a string of unsuitable and ultimately unsatisfying relationships. Her PR triumphs in the media were poor compensation for all she lacked and had lost.  Her sad end does not need repeating. Diana was the tragedienne of her time and forever showed that fairy tales do not always translate well in real life.

Jackie Onassis went through much and lost some fans when she dated Aristotle. Her husband was addicted to adultery but she was pragmatic about the whole thing. She may not have been married her last partner but she seemed happy with him. Getting a certificate of marriage is not always a precursor to marital bliss. You can be perfectly happy with a partner and never get married.



Those around her (according to the documentary interviews) said she was very happy her last year. She was not "troubled." It was a new beginning for her and she was meeting with Blair about her possible future role, she donated her gowns to a charity auction, she called attention to Landmines and so on.  The landmine victims were interviewed and will always remember her caring. Hardly the actions of someone "troubled."

Diana had a long term relationship with Hewitt (obviously it could not lead to marriage because she would have risked losing custody), she was involved with Hasnet for two years. 

Charles also was involved with Janet Jenkins during the early nineties so he was hardly "exclusive." And it is impossible to be in an "exclusive" relationship when the woman is married and the man is married himself.

The wife was said not to be pleased re: Jackie and her husband. She would not give him a divorce. Jackie was said to be paid megabucks by JFK's father to stay in the marriage. She went through hell. She gave birth to a stillborn daughter while her husband was womanizing in Europe. RFK was at her side and JFK was ordered to leave and come home to his wife.  Unless she was made of stone, I don't think she liked the humiliation. Some sources reported Jackie had discreet affairs of her own during the marriage.

Jackie did not "need a man" to be happy. She did many things on her own and she very much enjoyed her work as an editor.

royalanthropologist

No she was not really happy in the last year. It is true that she was feeling much better after the divorce but the issues of abandonment were still there.  She wanted to give the impression that she was coping well after the divorce. Her charity work was soaring and she looked better than ever.

However, there were signs of trouble in paradise. She had just broken up with Khan. Then whilst on holiday, she actually invited the press to photograph her so as to wipe off Camilla the front pages because the other woman was celebrating her 50th birthday. That does not speak to me of someone that is happy or contented.

Jackie Kennedy found a way to remain first lady to a president that was a philander. Everyone finds their coping mechanism, particularly if they have internal resources. Fashion can also be a coping mechanism. Diana did that with her Serpentine "Revenge Dress". She was basically saying that she was still desirable even if Charles had publicly made it known that he was not interested in her.

I wonder though where fashion was a coping mechanism for Jacki O.

Also Jackie's marriage to Onassis was interesting. At the time he had been going out with Maria Callas after her own divorce. I personally thought it strange that he would leave someone with that much passion, intelligence and accomplishment for a glorified stepford wife. But again...each to their own.
"In the past, people were born royal. Nowadays, royalty comes from what you do"...Gianni Versace

TLLK

Quote from: royalanthropologist on August 16, 2017, 04:50:08 AM
Both women had tragic lives. Diana died young and without ever finding "the right one". Most of her adult life was spent fighting for or against her husband the Prince of Wales. Jackie buried many relatives despite all the money. The Kennedys are a family with long and sustained problems.

Few people would like to lead their lives but many would love to have their opportunities...if you get what I mean.
@Duch_Luver_4ever  Honestly I do not believe that Jackie Kennedy Onassis would have wanted to be Diana. IMVHO she had had enough of public life and the intrusive media attention by the 1980's. If anything she likely felt sorry for Diana because she could well understand what her life would be like once married to Charles. I have to agree @royalanthropologist as I find that both women had some similarities in their  lives. They were both young when they caught the attention of the public due to their marriages to high profile public figures. Their parents had divorced when both women were young girls and there was a step-parent in the lives. Each was considered to be a charismatic figure for their generation.  They were married to men that were not faithful during their marriage. (Though JFK was reported to have had more partners than Charles.) they were known for their love of fashion and wore their clothing well IMO.

sandy

Diana may well have married an Onassis type as her second husband. JFK would never have left Jackie for any of the women much less married any of them.  Charles ditched Diana after she had the two children. He eventually married the other woman.  Jackie and Diana did show interests in various causes.

Double post auto-merged: August 16, 2017, 03:43:15 PM


Quote from: royalanthropologist on August 16, 2017, 02:45:41 PM
No she was not really happy in the last year. It is true that she was feeling much better after the divorce but the issues of abandonment were still there.  She wanted to give the impression that she was coping well after the divorce. Her charity work was soaring and she looked better than ever.

However, there were signs of trouble in paradise. She had just broken up with Khan. Then whilst on holiday, she actually invited the press to photograph her so as to wipe off Camilla the front pages because the other woman was celebrating her 50th birthday. That does not speak to me of someone that is happy or contented.

Jackie Kennedy found a way to remain first lady to a president that was a philander. Everyone finds their coping mechanism, particularly if they have internal resources. Fashion can also be a coping mechanism. Diana did that with her Serpentine "Revenge Dress". She was basically saying that she was still desirable even if Charles had publicly made it known that he was not interested in her.

I wonder though where fashion was a coping mechanism for Jacki O.

Also Jackie's marriage to Onassis was interesting. At the time he had been going out with Maria Callas after her own divorce. I personally thought it strange that he would leave someone with that much passion, intelligence and accomplishment for a glorified stepford wife. But again...each to their own.

I truly felt sorry for Maria Callas, Such a great talent. She left her husband for Ari and he never married her and married Jackie instead. He even cheated on his first wife with Jackie's sister Lee. Maria Callas was back in Ari's life after the marriage with Jackie soured. I read that Maria Callas and Ari had a son who died soon after birth. Tragic. I think Ari wanted a trophy wife and he did not like the Kennedys so it was sort of sweet revenge for him.

Diana was regrouping. Many divorcees just mourn for the marriage and are sad and sometimes reclusive. DIana was quite active with causes and charities in the last year of her life. She and Hasnet had a complex relationship, they loved each other. They could theoretically have found their way back to each other

royalanthropologist

I know I shouldn't but I do find Hasnat Khan a bit infuriating. Surely a life with Diana (drama included) is better than what he has now. Divorced, childless and reclusive. His before and after pictures look the worst of all the so called "Diana's men". I doubt she would allow himself to let go. Diana was even trying the losing battle of trying to update Charles' wardrobe and many of her choices for him were inspired.

Why couldn't Khan fight for her if he loved her? Many people are able to have good relationships even with celebrity. You just don't give up someone because they are famous and personable. I know I am being a bit of a so and so but I find men who are reluctant so annoying. Just get on with it and propose...preferably with a humongous Diamond and no prenup :hehe: :teehee:
"In the past, people were born royal. Nowadays, royalty comes from what you do"...Gianni Versace

Duch_Luver_4ever

 :goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost: Thank you!!! @royalanthropologist  :goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost:

Thats exactly how I feel about him as well, in many ways he was like Charles, afraid to challenge his family, set in his ways, but the biggest similarity is that he didnt bother to know and understand what she wanted, and was unwilling to meet her in the middle.

She hadnt cleaned and fussed over a man like that in a long time, and given that unlike most people we date, he had access to dozens of books and such on her at the time, he should have had a diamond ready for when the divorce went through the first time he saw his flat cleaned and clothes ironed.

I know my opinion could be taken with a grain of salt, but yes his dithering and reluctance was maddening to men who would have given an arm to be in his place. Not to mention it set into motion events leading to her demise, he may as well have shot her that night in the park they quarreled.

As for the Diana and Jackie comparison what i meant was that given they lived though similar circumstances, she might have wished to be a Diana in terms of effect on people & causes worldwide, being able to turn around her circumstances like Diana did, not slink away into relative obscurity with a rich meal ticket like Jackie did.

Of the two id say Diana used her fame more effectively and had more reach than Jackie, not to mention Diana was much much prettier, so for those reasons I think at least at times Jackie wished she was a Diana.
"No other member of the Royal Family mattered that year, or I think for the next 17 years, it was just her." Arthur Edwards, The Sun Photographer, talking about Diana's impact.

TLLK

^^^Okay your explanation makes more sense now @Duch_Luver_4ever. IMO they were both equally attractive though.


Duch_Luver_4ever

thanks, realized it was more shot across the bow than fully fleshed out explanation, as for the attractiveness,I see where youre coming from, but have to color me biased on this one, only the Rose of Althorp gives me the ol mule kick to the chest everytime I see those baby blues :brightside:
"No other member of the Royal Family mattered that year, or I think for the next 17 years, it was just her." Arthur Edwards, The Sun Photographer, talking about Diana's impact.

amabel

Quote from: royalanthropologist on August 16, 2017, 05:13:33 AM
I do actually think Diana might have wanted to be a Jackie Kennedy in terms of being first lady. However Jackie would certainly not have wanted the kind of life that Diana ended up living.
well hat's quite the opposite of Jackie wishing she were "a Diana".  I think that Diana might have had th odd fantasy of being married ot a wealthy and prominent American.. but I certainly don't think that she would realy have wanted to be a Presidents wife.  There is danger, you need to have security and there's a lot of boring political stuff.
And Jakcie who cherished her privacy, why wuodl she want to be married into a royal family?

sandy

Jackie had much trouble with the paparazzi after she left the White House. She sued Ron Galella who stalked her and made her life miserable.

Duch_Luver_4ever

As for the Diana and Jackie comparison what i meant was that given they lived though similar circumstances, she might have wished to be a Diana in terms of effect on people & causes worldwide, being able to turn around her circumstances like Diana did, not slink away into relative obscurity with a rich meal ticket like Jackie did.

Of the two id say Diana used her fame more effectively and had more reach than Jackie, not to mention Diana was much much prettier, so for those reasons I think at least at times Jackie wished she was a Diana.

As for Diana wanting to be the first lady, we already know she was working on Teddy, she was already used to having the security, and would have been top notch, better than the RPO's, americans loved her, and aside from the odd nutcase that always wants to take a run at the POTUS now matter whos in office, the danger was very low, shed already had to sidestep politics with the RF, id say given how FLOTUS like Hillary and Michelle have stuck their nose into presidental politics, shed have had more freedom there too, although i think shed have stuck more to her charities.

In a way her time as PoW would have been an excellent warmup for being FLOTUS, also i think shed have done it just for the "awkward" state visits when HM or C&C came over depending on what 4 or 8 year period that might have happened, had she lived. Tony Blair had said how she understood and was in command of that personal charisma and such that only dreamed of having when they came to power, and if its to be believed, she met with them and advised them on how to carry themselves, so I think she'd have been a fantastic FLOTUS.

And can anything be more 80s that Trump and Diana in the white house???? (i know i know she rebuffed his flowers, just saying it would be a powerful matchup of celebrity and networking ability). If we're really gonna go all out alternative history, Id have rathered her and JFK jr in 2001 instead of W.

"No other member of the Royal Family mattered that year, or I think for the next 17 years, it was just her." Arthur Edwards, The Sun Photographer, talking about Diana's impact.

sandy

JFK had his own serious girlfriends. Carolyn Bessette was said to be his soulmate. 

Teddy was a good friend to Diana which was great.  He said there was no "romance" or "affair" with Diana. But he apparently was a good friend to her.

Diana could have just been a humanitarian calling attention to causes and doing much charity work. Maybe more like what Angelina Jolie does today. Maybe Diana and Hasnet could have reconnected and both could have done charity work.

Being a first lady is only temporary "work" unless one is like Hillary Clinton.

amabel

Since When did Jackie O show any sign of wanting to "have influence" or work for causes?  I can't imagine she would have wanted to do anything like that.  She dabbled in working in a publsihers, and preferred life with a well to do circle of friends and a boyfriend, and a quiet life, to being either First Lady or a member of a royal family..

sandy

She wanted to make a difference. She protested the tearing down of Grand Central Station and was responsible for it being preserved.

The Surprising Role Jackie Kennedy Onassis Played in Saving Grand Central - CityLab

She became an editor which she enjoyed and was responsible for assisting authors.

She also planned with her children the wonderful JFK Library

Maybe these were considered "small things" by some but she had spirit and did want to make a difference.

amabel

she wanted to preserve JFK's legacy, because he was her husband. and she might have joined in some architechture campaign but I doubt if it was a big thing with her.  She dabbled in editorial work, because it was a time when even "society women" were getting jobs, but IMO she wanted her life to be quiet and private.  She had little or no interest in politics and probably no more than a conventional interest in charity.
I think she chose wisely, in preferring a private life with her beau, her children and grandchildren..

royalanthropologist

Did not know all that about Jackie O. Maybe I was a bit harsh describing her as glorified Stepford Wife.
"In the past, people were born royal. Nowadays, royalty comes from what you do"...Gianni Versace