Author Topic: Charles' Mentors - In hindsight who gave the best or worst advice ?  (Read 731 times)

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Offline Kritter

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Charles' Mentors - In hindsight who gave the best or worst advice ?
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2018, 10:54:26 PM »
^ Are you & DL/RA trying to ruin this thread with this I can't understand what you are saying & twisting people's words in order to promote an argument among members thereby getting the thread locked?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 11:48:45 PM by SophieChloe »
 


Offline SophieChloe

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Re: Charles' Mentors - In hindsight who gave the best or worst advice ?
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2018, 10:59:33 PM »
Head Moderator Comment Please keep to the topic at hand, NOT each other. Cheers SCxx
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me
 
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Offline Trudie

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Charles' Mentors - In hindsight who gave the best or worst advice ?
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2018, 11:03:53 PM »
She never showed him how to stand & that is something that a man or woman needs to do. She did the same with her husband always taking care of his immediate feelings with no thought to long term.


This is the example Kritter was giving it was not good for Charles as a child not to learn how  to always stand on his own two feet.

A mother figure rather than none at all, in the psychological sense that the Queen Mother as any human is not perfect, and had no no criminal record.



What does not having a criminal record have to do with teaching a child to stand on his own two feet ? yes it is in a psychological sense to have a mother figure.

A woman who beats her child is also a Mother figure but that doesn't mean she is good for the child.

This example does not imply the QM was abusive it is showing the other extreme that an abusive mother figure is also not good for a child again in a psychological sense. Tho abuse is criminal. This is so true now when many children are being raised not by their mothers but by others taking on the role.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 11:49:00 PM by SophieChloe »


 
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Offline wannable

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Re: Charles' Mentors - In hindsight who gave the best or worst advice ?
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2018, 11:06:35 PM »
A woman who beats her child is also a Mother figure but that doesn't mean she is good for the child.

The tactic of including convenient posts and ignoring the order of postings via the discussion....again!
 

Offline Trudie

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Re: Charles\' Mentors - In hindsight who gave the best or worst advice ?
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2018, 11:09:09 PM »
QM was taking on the role of a parent. You would be a pretty strange  parent to take the sides of the "women in your son's life" over your son (particularly based on their biased account of the relationships). That rarely happens. Besides there is a lot more to Charles' personality than some of the women in his life or the bad romantic relationships he has had.

The people who know him personally speak of a kind, generous person. I totally reject this idea that Charles is a bad person or bad parent or even a bad prince. He is by far the best POW this country has ever had, and that is not in small measure to people like Mountbatten and QM who were always in his corner instead of pulling him down at every opportunity.

Hopefully this is not going to turn into yet another "St. Diana vs. Charles the devil" thread. Those are getting kinda boring.



Can you not bring St Diana into this thread no one mentioned her until now that you did. Is this going to be a get a thread locked because the subject could be sticky?  Please this is about Charles mentors only

Double post auto-merged: January 21, 2018, 11:15:39 PM

The tactic of including convenient posts and ignoring the order of postings via the discussion....again!


Again this was an example of an overindulgent mother figure vs. an abusive mother figure neither one being good for a child which was brought up by another post stating the QM had no criminal record
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 11:15:39 PM by Trudie »


 
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Offline wannable

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Re: Charles' Mentors - In hindsight who gave the best or worst advice ?
« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2018, 11:26:03 PM »
Thank you for stating it is an example, as that is what I had asked first. And that we all read the order of posts, rather than conveniently skipping bits and parts of a conversation.
 

Offline SophieChloe

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Re: Charles' Mentors - In hindsight who gave the best or worst advice ?
« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2018, 11:54:19 PM »
Head Moderator Comment Here we go again, sniping at each other already. This thread is about Charles, NOT fellow members NOR Diana. If this continues I will put in place the option to have the offending Member's posts on Pre-Approval before publication. Come on guys!
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 11:56:54 PM by SophieChloe »
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Offline Trudie

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Re: Charles' Mentors - In hindsight who gave the best or worst advice ?
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2018, 01:08:58 AM »
I believe the QM was probably one of the worst influences on his life for the way she overindulged him with his whining making him feel that she alone could make him happy As Charles said in Dimbleby. I believe however the most influential was Lord Mountbatten. Mountbatten imparted that position was everything and as Charles was in such a high position he was entitled to what ever he wanted whether he earned such entitlement or not it was all there for the taking.


 
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Offline sandy

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Re: Charles' Mentors - In hindsight who gave the best or worst advice ?
« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2018, 04:27:05 AM »
Mountbatten had his own agenda. He promoted a match his nephew with the future Queen and he even pushed for the Mountbatten-Windsor surname. He had ambitions for his granddaughter Amanda. If she and Charles had married, he'd have been the  great grandfather of a future monarch. SO not of it was "all for Charles" he had something to get out of this too.

The Queen Mum could never be a "parent" figure since Charles had parents. She IMO was the over indulgent grandmother.

He did call Mountbatten "honorary" grandfather.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 04:29:09 AM by sandy »
 
 
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Offline Trudie

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Re: Charles' Mentors - In hindsight who gave the best or worst advice ?
« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2018, 08:08:54 AM »
True both wanted power vicariously through Charles since both had no power over the Queen and Philip.


 
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Offline Kritter

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Re: Charles' Mentors - In hindsight who gave the best or worst advice ?
« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2018, 08:16:04 AM »
Exactly. Train them when they are young & you will have them for a lifetime. See after a lifetime Charles is still a whiner that thinks everything must be done his way.

I wonder if the QM is the one that talked the Queen into leaving the children with her while they were in Malta since there was really no reason not to take them.
 
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Re: Charles' Mentors - In hindsight who gave the best or worst advice ?
« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2018, 12:11:35 PM »
The queen is a cold distant parent and DOE is an outright bully. Without QM's influence, Charles would have been a very unhappy boy. Those parents that want to "toughen up" their children sometimes veer on abuse. I think DOE falls within that category.  I might also add that parents ought to treat their children as individuals, not as some carbon copies of themselves. Insinuating that your child is a "wimp" is telling. DOE wanted DOE Mark II not Charles.

QM saw what was happening and became the mother. She loved Charles as he was, not as she wanted him to be. Ditto Mountbatten. Without them, Charles would be isolated in that family. I think Charles to this very day misses his grandmother because of what she meant to him. With his mother, it is all about duty. DOE I am not sure Charles likes at all and goes out of his way to keep away.

I agree that Mountbatten gave terrible advice about sowing your wild oats and marrying a virgin. Sounds like something from a Barbara Cartland novel (and they are silly novels). Charles should have married someone in his circle (High Grove set). There would be no issues because those people know and like him.

I must also add, that many times Charles' enemies have tried to isolate him from the Highgrove set precisely because they are part of his support network. When people want to destroy you, the first thing they do is to tell you to get rid of all your friends so that they can get a chance to really put the boot in. Apart from Van Der Post, I think the Highgrove set has been marvelous friends to Charles and were with him through everything.
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Offline Kritter

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Re: Charles' Mentors - In hindsight who gave the best or worst advice ?
« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2018, 02:26:44 PM »
Yes Jimmy Saville was a great friend of Charles's. Got Charles's protection for years.

I wonder why the other three children of the Queen & PP don't have the same whiny attitude that Charles does about his parents.   :hmm:
 
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Re: Charles' Mentors - In hindsight who gave the best or worst advice ?
« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2018, 02:37:15 PM »
Perhaps the queen's children have different personalities. For example, they are all very "regal" and will not tolerate any impertinence from "commoners" but do it different. Meeting all of them, you are left under no doubt that they are the royals and you are the non-royal but they are actually very different people with different personalities.

 Good parents accept children as they are and try to give them the best start in life. They do not focus on their perceived weaknesses or call them demeaning names because they don't fit to a certain standard. In fact the really good ones find a parenting style that suits every child. Some are sensitive while others are brash. As a parent you adjust accordingly rather than making the sensitive ones feel as if they are defective in some way. QM did this for Charles unlike DOE who wanted a particular son with a particular attitude.

Jimmy Saville was a sociopath pedophile and took in many people including Charles. I have read people criticizing Charles that he has such a bad sense of judgment by being friends with Jimmy Saville. The implication is that he ought to have found him out sooner but the reality is that Saville took many people in as an eccentric harmless guy. He was on television and was once considered to be a "national treasure" at one point. So it is not as if, it was just Charles that was taken in by him.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 02:40:31 PM by royalanthropologist »
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Offline Kritter

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Re: Charles' Mentors - In hindsight who gave the best or worst advice ?
« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2018, 04:27:51 PM »
Charles was friends with Saville for over 40 years & if Charles didn't know anything after all those years he truly is an idiot.

QM made Charles defective with all that molly coddling she did.
 
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Re: Charles' Mentors - In hindsight who gave the best or worst advice ?
« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2018, 05:25:05 PM »
Charles is no "Idiot". If he is an "idiot" then the entire press establishment and entertainment industry are "idiots". Certainly an "idiot" does not achieve even a fraction of things that Charles has achieved.

He is not "defective" either, a term that no parent or grand parent would use for their relatives.  QM was an insulator against the brutality of DOE and the cold detachment of the queen. I am sure Charles appreciated her role in his life.
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Offline sandy

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Re: Charles\' Mentors - In hindsight who gave the best or worst advice ?
« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2018, 05:28:40 PM »
The queen is a cold distant parent and DOE is an outright bully. Without QM's influence, Charles would have been a very unhappy boy. Those parents that want to "toughen up" their children sometimes veer on abuse. I think DOE falls within that category.  I might also add that parents ought to treat their children as individuals, not as some carbon copies of themselves. Insinuating that your child is a "wimp" is telling. DOE wanted DOE Mark II not Charles.

QM saw what was happening and became the mother. She loved Charles as he was, not as she wanted him to be. Ditto Mountbatten. Without them, Charles would be isolated in that family. I think Charles to this very day misses his grandmother because of what she meant to him. With his mother, it is all about duty. DOE I am not sure Charles likes at all and goes out of his way to keep away.

I agree that Mountbatten gave terrible advice about sowing your wild oats and marrying a virgin. Sounds like something from a Barbara Cartland novel (and they are silly novels). Charles should have married someone in his circle (High Grove set). There would be no issues because those people know and like him.

I must also add, that many times Charles' enemies have tried to isolate him from the Highgrove set precisely because they are part of his support network. When people want to destroy you, the first thing they do is to tell you to get rid of all your friends so that they can get a chance to really put the boot in. Apart from Van Der Post, I think the Highgrove set has been marvelous friends to Charles and were with him through everything.

None of Charles siblings complained that way about their parents. And Anne was only about two years younger.

Charles aired his grievances against his parents but they never publicly complained about him.

The QM and Mountbatten were Edwardian in outlook and the "rules" that applied to them certainly were outmoded. CHarles latched on to Mountbatten's ideas and followed the script which was IMO outmoded. The QM coddled Charles and gave him a sense that he could do no wrong and "others" were to blame because they did not "understand him" or were "mean to him." She enabled this thinking.

The Queen Mum could not become the "mother". Charles was not an orphan and he had a mother already. She was just an over indulgent grandmother IMO.

Charles could not have been "isolated" and IMO it was unhealthy for him to think the QM and Mountbatten to be his only salvation. He needed to think for himself and act for himself. He appeared to have wanted to be "enabled."  Mountbatten wanted to be in the bloodlines of future monarchs by marrying Charles off to his Granddaughter Amanda. The QM and Philip did not get along very well and I wonder if she badmouthed him to CHarles. She and George had their reservations about Philip and told her daughter and Philip they had to wait a year.

Dismissing the Queen as "distant" and the DOE as a bully in Charles' view was denied by Charles' siblings. I don't see them like that, it's just Charles complaints about them. There are two sides to the story. ANd there is such a thing as overindulging a child.


Double post auto-merged: January 22, 2018, 05:33:56 PM

Perhaps the queen's children have different personalities. For example, they are all very "regal" and will not tolerate any impertinence from "commoners" but do it different. Meeting all of them, you are left under no doubt that they are the royals and you are the non-royal but they are actually very different people with different personalities.

 Good parents accept children as they are and try to give them the best start in life. They do not focus on their perceived weaknesses or call them demeaning names because they don't fit to a certain standard. In fact the really good ones find a parenting style that suits every child. Some are sensitive while others are brash. As a parent you adjust accordingly rather than making the sensitive ones feel as if they are defective in some way. QM did this for Charles unlike DOE who wanted a particular son with a particular attitude.

Jimmy Saville was a sociopath pedophile and took in many people including Charles. I have read people criticizing Charles that he has such a bad sense of judgment by being friends with Jimmy Saville. The implication is that he ought to have found him out sooner but the reality is that Saville took many people in as an eccentric harmless guy. He was on television and was once considered to be a "national treasure" at one point. So it is not as if, it was just Charles that was taken in by him.

I don't see Charles as "sensitive". A "sensitive" man would not have done things the way CHarles did as he grew up. In his personal life that is.

Charles never gave a litany of names he was called by his parents. Maybe they didn't call him names. I think a lot of assumptions are based on CHarles own grievance collecting.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 05:33:56 PM by sandy »
 
 
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Re: Charles' Mentors - In hindsight who gave the best or worst advice ?
« Reply #42 on: January 22, 2018, 05:34:13 PM »
Given the cold detachment of the queen and the brutality of DOE, someone had to step in. That was QM and Mountbatten. Telling a young child to to "think for himself and act for himself" is just not good parenting in my opinion. Parents are supposed to support their children unconditionally and do the very best they can for them. Saying Anne et.al are different simply reinforces that same notion that children have to be the same.
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Offline sandy

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Re: Charles' Mentors - In hindsight who gave the best or worst advice ?
« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2018, 05:45:03 PM »
The Queen Mum over indulged Charles. Only the parties involved know what went on behind closed doors. Charles was the only one who publicly whinged about it. QM, and the QE II and Philip never went to the media with their sides. THe siblings gave their side and countered what Charles said. No Charles as an adult should no how to think for himself and act for himself. As an adult he started blaming everybody else but him for choices he made. As an adult, not a child. An adult. The Queen Mum even coddled the adult Charles and encouraged his not so nice behavior with others. Children learn to take responsibility and not blame others as they grow up. Charles missed the memo and did not say, hey I think I was wrong to do this or that and I was not nice to people and I regret doing this or that. He would not want to hear criticism and froze people out who disagreed with him. The QUeen did support Charles and allowed the marriage to Camilla. And supported his ideas like the scaled down monarchy.  And the QM was dead by then, and SHE was not the one who supported the C and C marriage, she did not want to see it in her lifetime.

I did not say the child Charles should have been told that. I said the QUeen Mum enabled him to blame others and not take responsibility. Charles still cooperates with authors like Junor who  blame others for CHarles choices. That's his type of writer.

I think had Charles maternal grandfather lived things would have been different. He made better life choices than Charles and I think he would have been honest and given Charles more of a sense of right and wrong. ANd maybe reined in his wife's coddling.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 05:52:52 PM by sandy »
 
 
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Offline Kritter

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Re: Charles' Mentors - In hindsight who gave the best or worst advice ?
« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2018, 05:55:07 PM »
Children need to be taught & will learn what they are taught. The QM taught Charles that he never had to take responsibility for his own actions because " he was sensitive & could do no wrong".

The people around Saville knew what he was about & said nothing because Charles was protecting Saville.
 
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Re: Charles' Mentors - In hindsight who gave the best or worst advice ?
« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2018, 05:56:44 PM »
I disagree with that view that QM over-indulged Charles and spoiled him. I think the QM was an excellent grandmother and had she had not been there, Charles life would be a very sad one. The queen is very good at her official duties but as a mother, I rate her very lowly. DOE was just not a good parent to Charles. Mountbatten was far more of a father and mentor than DOE. All DOE wanted to do was toughen up Charles.

Siblings coming to the aid of their parents and protecting them from criticism does not mean that they were not what Charles described them to be.
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Offline wannable

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Re: Charles' Mentors - In hindsight who gave the best or worst advice ?
« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2018, 05:59:40 PM »
Adults complaining about what went on during their childhood, be it voicing, writing a diary is one of the many best ways of healing what their parents did not do, notice or ignored when the child was going through unhappiness. 

I very much doubt any British Royal child will ever ever go to Gordonstoun.  Charles chronicles of the brutal bullying he endured at school, is what some quarters call whining, which is all related and goes back to his life at that boarding school.

The only ones who took notice, cared and paid attention was Mountbatten and Queen Mother.
 

Offline Kritter

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Re: Charles' Mentors - In hindsight who gave the best or worst advice ?
« Reply #47 on: January 22, 2018, 06:04:49 PM »
So because Charles is a natural whiner the Queen & PP are bad parents but if his three siblings disagree it is because they are protecting their bad parents even though they are adults with their own minds.   :laugh10:  OK

You have no idea what type of Mother the Queen was. Her other three children say Charles was wrong & since Charles is a known whiner their word should carry more weight than Charles's does.
 
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Offline wannable

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Re: Charles' Mentors - In hindsight who gave the best or worst advice ?
« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2018, 06:13:55 PM »
Most of it is due to his unhappy childhood, and what he has complained always goes back to that period of time.

Parents are responsible until children are of age legally. In some societies and culture, until age 25 (totaling school upper education and 1 to 2 years of startup career).

 

Offline Kritter

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Re: Charles' Mentors - In hindsight who gave the best or worst advice ?
« Reply #49 on: January 22, 2018, 06:21:33 PM »
^ I thought the QM made his childhood so happy.
 

 

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