The War of the Wales' discussion Part 3

Started by LouisFerdinand, October 06, 2017, 12:24:47 AM

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Duch_Luver_4ever

Theres been  NO posts in the Diana board this month yet, seems like sidelining things over here has been a "success"  :thumbsdown:
"No other member of the Royal Family mattered that year, or I think for the next 17 years, it was just her." Arthur Edwards, The Sun Photographer, talking about Diana's impact.

TLLK

 (cough, cough) I posted in  the forum earlier in this month. :xmas1:

Duch_Luver_4ever

true true, the photo areas a sticky so I overlooked those and was looking at the main list (I should have remember my own post there as well...LOL). :xmas7:
"No other member of the Royal Family mattered that year, or I think for the next 17 years, it was just her." Arthur Edwards, The Sun Photographer, talking about Diana's impact.

TLLK


LouisFerdinand

Who would have been the first servant to notice that The Prince and Princess of Wales were having marital difficulties?


sandy

Maybe Wendy Berrie the Housekeeper or quite possibly, Charles own confidante Michael Fawcett, who arrived on the scene about the same time DIana did.

Kritter

The press were most likely the first to notice. They act like servants even though they are not classified as such.    :D

amabel

 I think that a lot of kids exaggerate adn make up thigns as children.. I know that there's some story of someone saying to her as a child "Diana if you tell one more lie Im putting you out of the car".. but I don't know much about the context?  Was she boasting?  was she making up stories about her friends?  What sort of lies was she teling?

but as a woman, I think she still had an ability to convince herself of things and was elastic about the truth.   But I am pretty sceptical about many of the thigns she "put out" as part of her story.. that Charles and Cam lured her into a bad marriage.. that they had a plan to continue their affair.  That she didn't know that Charles had been involved wth Camilla till it was all too late to call the wedding off.
but the Tiggy thing was nasty.   


royalanthropologist

Sometimes the things that she told that were untrue had very serious consequences for others. She could destroy reputations and even cause huge scandals by saying something that she knew was not true. As a royal consort, it was an unedifying aspect of her character.

I think that the Twiggy incident was even worse. Once the "Camilla is the cause of all my problems" card had started wearing thin...she had to look for another person to focus her anger on. Twiggy seemed as good a choice as any. She continued with that theme right up to that pathetic letter she wrote about Charles wanting to have her killed. It was all drama and attention-seeking.
"In the past, people were born royal. Nowadays, royalty comes from what you do"...Gianni Versace

amabel

I agree about Tiggy (there is a Twiggy but she is a differenet person).  But Im talking about the "lies" she supposedly told as a child.  I'm wondering what she was saying to make the adult say "If you tell one more lie Im putting you out of the car".
was it just boasting?  or making up stories about her friends which were untrue?  Was she just saying "I didn't have my ahnd in the cookie jar "when she plailnly DID?
I think that she fixated on Tiggy because as you say, she had worn out the "Camilla is an evil monster" story ab it.. and she was jealous of Tiggy's relationship with the boys and her friendship with Charles. But if she was not happy about Tig and the boys, the thing to do would have ben to discuss calmly with Charles and or the queen..
But I think she did want to make waves.. and she may have convinced herself that Charles woudlnt' be able to marry Cam because she would be a divorcee and that he was now moving on to Tiggy?

royalanthropologist

Quote from: sandy on March 09, 2019, 11:51:24 AM
Let me ask you Amabel do you think Tiggy was justified in trashing the mothering of DIana to the media? You treat her like a plaster saint. CHarles hired her and had his hands all over her in public. SHe admitted a crush. I don't know why the Queen did not stop this sort of thing.

Camilla loathed Tiggy so it was not just DIana and called Tiggy the hired help.

SO you really think amabel that DIana would not have suffered any penalty say if she bolted with HOare, caused two divorces and not have had more limited custody of her sons? Really? SHe would be the guilty party and certainly would have not benefited by bolting with Hoare.

Junor and Charles supporters use the DIana was a liar spin which is just disgusting. DIana was spot on about Camilla.

Tiggy never had an affair or child with Charles. That was a malicious and low lie by Diana, whichever way you choose to dress it up and justify it. The lawyers were called in and she soon stopped her malicious slander. Saying that C&C lied to does not make what Diana did right. She was trying to attack another woman instead of admitting her role in the failure of her own marriage and the fraught relationship she subsequently had with the father of her children.  If Diana was not satisfied with the childcare arrangements, she should have raised it with Charles and the Queen...not slandering the help just because she was in a bad mood.

The penalty stuff was a figment of her imagination. It was and was always going to be a no fault divorce...irreconcilable differences. She made up that yarn about losing the kids in order to add another dimension to the drama that had become her life. Diana could never do things quietly and pragmatically...she had to go out with a blaze. If there were no dramas, she would create some.

It is not a spin. Diana lied on many, many occasions. It is not just Charles' people that say it. Her grandmother, brother and friends noted that she lied. You just have to look at some of the stories she told to see all the inconsistencies. The throwing herself down the stairs when pregnant with William is a classic case in point.  She would turn an ordinary incident into the biggest crisis that ever happened in order to cast herself as the perpetual victim of everybody and everything apart from her own actions.
"In the past, people were born royal. Nowadays, royalty comes from what you do"...Gianni Versace

amabel

well more ot the point, but there are lies and thter'es slander and libel.  Diana's remark was actionable, and I think that even hr royal status did not deter the Legg Bourkes from seriously considering legal action.... so she had to withdraw her remark...

TLLK

I agree that Diana's remark was actionable and it would have been very embarrassing for her to be sued for slander. She's fortunate that didn't occur.

Curryong

I've got a feeling that it was the Tiggy debacle that caused Tiggy's side to call in Geoffrey Robertson QC. He posted something a little while ago (can't remember the details) in which Diana had to pay a very large sum of money in compensation in order for a case, in which he had been briefed as a barrister, to not end in court.

Princess Cassandra

Quote from: amabel on March 09, 2019, 01:53:23 PM
well more ot the point, but there are lies and thter'es slander and libel.  Diana's remark was actionable, and I think that even hr royal status did not deter the Legg Bourkes from seriously considering legal action.... so she had to withdraw her remark...

What a mess that would have been.

TLLK

Quote from: Curryong on March 10, 2019, 02:32:33 AM
I've got a feeling that it was the Tiggy debacle that caused Tiggy's side to call in Geoffrey Robertson QC. He posted something a little while ago (can't remember the details) in which Diana had to pay a very large sum of money in compensation in order for a case, in which he had been briefed as a barrister, to not end in court.
Interesting. I'd never heard this before @Curryong.

Curryong

^ I've just looked it up. It wasn't Tiggy but another case Diana was emproiled in, one against Bryce Taylor the owner of a gym. Photos were taken of Diana exercising there and they apparently ended up in a print publication. Diana threatened to sue but just before the case was due to go to Court there was a settlement. Robertson claimed that his client (Taylor) won big with a deposit of a million in his Swiss account from Diana. The amount sounds OTT but Robertson has written a book about some of his cases and that is featured in it. If Diana kept paying out huge amounts in settlement in court cases it must have cost her dearly.

Princess Cassandra

I've always admired Diana for her many good qualities, and I feel very sorry for her unhappiness.  HOWEVER, I was shocked and chagrined (and still am) when she expressed doubt in a televised interview about the POW being up to the "top job".  No matter their personal issues she must have been aware of his dedication and the success he was having in his "job" as POW.  And she put the RF in a bad light when she said it.  If she wanted revenge, she certainly got it that day. 

Curryong

This is a transcript of the part of the Panorama interview where Diana discusses Charles's future role.

BASHIR: Do you think the Prince of Wales will ever be King?

DIANA: I don't think any of us know the answer to that. And obviously it's a question that's in everybody's head. But who knows, who knows what fate will produce, who knows what circumstances will provoke?

BASHIR: But you would know him better than most people. Do you think he would wish to be King?

DIANA: There was always conflict on that subject with him when we discussed it, and I understood that conflict, because it's a very demanding role, being Prince of Wales, but it's an equally more demanding role being King.

And being Prince of Wales produces more freedom now, and being King would be a little bit more suffocating. And because I know the character I would think that the top job, as I call it, would bring enormous limitations to him, and I don't know whether he could adapt to that.

BASHIR: Do you think it would make more sense in the light of the marital difficulties that you and the Prince of Wales have had if the position of monarch passed directly to your son Prince William?

DIANA: Well, then you have to see that William's very young at the moment, so do you want a burden like that to be put on his shoulders at such an age? So I can't answer that question.

BASHIR: Would it be your wish that when Prince William comes of age that he were to succeed the Queen rather than the current Prince of Wales?

DIANA: My wish is that my husband finds peace of mind, and from that follows others things, yes.

BASHIR: Why have you decided to give this interview now? Why have you decided to speak at this time?

amabel

Quote from: Curryong on March 10, 2019, 03:20:13 AM
^ I've just looked it up. It wasn't Tiggy but another case Diana was emproiled in, one against Bryce Taylor the owner of a gym. Photos were taken of Diana exercising there and they apparently ended up in a print publication. Diana threatened to sue but just before the case was due to go to Court there was a settlement. Robertson claimed that his client (Taylor) won big with a deposit of a million in his Swiss account from Diana. The amount sounds OTT but Robertson has written a book about some of his cases and that is featured in it. If Diana kept paying out huge amounts in settlement in court cases it must have cost her dearly.
Why would diana have had to pay?  I remember the case, she was pictured at a gym, via a secret camera.  Taylor was at fault, and Diana did threaten to sue.. but I think she was dissuaded because it was a public gym with a big glass frontage where anyone could look in.. so the other side could claim that Diana  had chosen to be out in public at a gym where anyone would be able to see her so she was consenting to being out in public.  So she dropped the case.. but I can't quite see why Diana would be required to pay a settlement.

Curryong

Quote from: amabel on March 10, 2019, 09:06:56 AM
Why would diana have had to pay?  I remember the case, she was pictured at a gym, via a secret camera.  Taylor was at fault, and Diana did threaten to sue.. but I think she was dissuaded because it was a public gym with a big glass frontage where anyone could look in.. so the other side could claim that Diana  had chosen to be out in public at a gym where anyone would be able to see her so she was consenting to being out in public.  So she dropped the case.. but I can't quite see why Diana would be required to pay a settlement.

Geoffrey Robertson is today known as one of Europe's leading human rights lawyers. He wrote a book about his other cases, including Diana's, some time ago.

Geoffrey Robertson Claims Princess Diana Was Two-Faced For This Reason

amabel

#71
Quote from: Curryong on March 10, 2019, 09:16:58 AM
Geoffrey Robertson is today known as one of Europe's leading human rights lawyers. He wrote a book about his other cases, including Diana's, some time ago.

Geoffrey Robertson Claims Princess Diana Was Two-Faced For This Reason
I am still not clear why diana would need to pay?   Unless it was proven that she gave consent to the pictures being taken?  But I believe that Diana was advised to drop the case as she woud undergo cross examination about her choosing that gym...I suppose it might have also been difficult to answer questions about wanting to protect her privacy when she had so often talked about her private life in public.

Double post auto-merged: March 10, 2019, 10:47:59 AM


Quote from: Curryong on March 10, 2019, 04:40:02 AM
This is a transcript of the part of the Panorama interview where Diana discusses Charles's future role.

BASHIR: Do you think the Prince of Wales will ever be King?

DIANA: I don't think any of us know the answer to that. And obviously it's a question that's in everybody's head. But who knows, who knows what fate will produce, who knows what circumstances will provoke?

BASHIR: But you would know him better than most people. Do you think he would wish to be King?

DI

B
I think the very fact that she dared to discuss in public wehter her husband would ever be king, let alone the strong hint that William could take his place.. damned her in the eyes of the RF/Queen.  That's what really pushed the queen to say enough. NO More... and to insist on a divorce which probably had a gagging clause...

royalanthropologist

#72
Morton was bad but it could be excused as a hurt woman venting and telling her perception of the breakdown of her marriage. Panorama was downright treacherous, vengeful, manipulative, deceitful and malicious in every way. I imagine her fans would have collective meltdowns if Charles went on national television and said "Knowing the character and pressures of the top job, I do not think Diana could adapt to it". There would be cries of sexism and cruelty.  The Windsors were incredibly measured and calm after that betrayal. They similarly kept a cool head when Charles Spencer was virtue signalling to them at the funeral. Any other family would be up in arms. The only people that showed their true displeasure were Princess Margaret and QM.

This was a woman that was in effect acting as an enemy to a family and institution which had raised her very, very high. Without them, Diana would have been just another fairly anonymous aristocrat. Here she was speaking with Republicans about the idea of changing the succession, something that was and remains high treason. Without a care about the impact on her beloved children, the best mother in the world was sticking the boot into their paternal family and airing all the worst bits of the family dirty laundry.

The Geoffrey Robertson merely confirms that Diana could be duplicitous, manipulative and deceitful if it served her aims. Tiggy was yet another person that would have been in the firing line had she not called in her lawyers. Similarly Mrs. Hoare would have continued to be in the firing line had she not called in the police. Diana had many wonderful and attractive qualities but it is ridiculous to claim that she was innocent, always with good intentions, honest and blameless in this saga.
"In the past, people were born royal. Nowadays, royalty comes from what you do"...Gianni Versace

amabel

Quote from: royalanthropologist on March 10, 2019, 02:20:21 PM
Mo

This was

The Geoffrey Robertson merely confirms that Diana could be duplicitous, manipulative and deceitful if it served her aims. Tiggy was yet another person that would have been in the firing line had she not called in her lawyers. Similarly Mrs. Hoare would have continued to be in the firing line had she not called in the police. Diana had many wonderful and attractive qualities but it is ridiculous to claim that she was innocent, always with good intentions, honest and blameless in this saga.
I still don't quite understand why Diana would have had to pay the gym owner guy, if she dropped the lawsuit ?
But I believe that Robertson QC is a very high powered and pretty darn ruthless barrister and if he was representing the gym man, he would have been pretty ruthless towards Diana If she was in the Witness box.  I think tahts' why her lawyers persuaded her to drop the case.... that it would entail very harsh questioning and that she might not be able to cope with it. But if she was paying HIM, surely she was admitting fault?

I think the trouble was that sometimes Diana wa a bit out of conrol? she was doing thngs she wanted, acting on wild impulses and didn't have someone to restrain her.. so she ended up in these messes.  I think it was partly due to her position as Princess, that it was difficult to tell her that she could not or should not do something, and her friends were less inclined to challenge her than ordinary people who would have all sorts of restrictions that might restrain them from wild impulses.  I
If you are an ordinary person, you are probably less likely to creep around for ages phoning a lost lover, cos you have to get up for work In the Morning.. or you may fear losing your job if you get into trouble.
Or you might think of all sorts of angry things you would like to say to someone but again, fear of its causing you to lose your job, or the like might restrain you.
And Diana was well known for breaking up with friends who offered criticism...

wannable

The Royal Family at War airs on Channel 5 at 9pm on Saturday.

In 1 hour BST.

Quote
They cried together': Royal insider claims that Diana and Charles were close during the day of their divorce in new Channel 5 documentary
Royal biographer Ingrid Seward revealed the information in new Channel 5 doc
She claims Charles and Diana cried together on a sofa on day of their divorce 
She claims by the time the divorce was finalised they were on much better terms


It is one of the most well-documented divorces of the 20th century and yet, 23 years later we are still learning new things about the Prince of Wales and Lady Diana's infamous separation.
A new Channel 5 documentary claims that the late Lady Di and Charles, 70, both cried together on the day they signed their divorce papers.
Ingrid Seward, the editor of Royalty Magazine, reveals the information half-way through the documentary.
'Diana did tell me something quite interesting,' she says. 'She said that on the day of the divorce, she and Charles sat down together on the sofa and they both cried,' she goes on.
'It was this crazy separation, but by the time the divorce was finalised, they were on much better terms.

Diana and Charles cried together on the day of their divorce, claims new Channel 5 documentary   | Daily Mail Online