The Tudors 1485-1603 Henry VII -Elizabeth I

Started by cinrit, November 17, 2011, 12:38:27 PM

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cinrit

QuoteThe twenty-five-year-old princess was seated beneath an oak tree on the lawn of her home, Hatfield House. Suddenly, several courtiers hurried across the lawn until they reached her location, stopped, and bowed. The queen has died, they told her. You are now queen of England. Young Elizabeth, it is said, fell to her knees and quoted a line from Psalm 118: "It is the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes."

Elizabeth I, daughter of King Henry VIII by his second wife, Anne Boleyn, had reached the throne by a more circuitous path than most monarchs. Her father's first wife, Catherine of Aragon, had born a daughter, Mary, but no son. Frustrated, Henry had broken with the Catholic Church and formed the Church of England so he could divorce Catherine and marry Anne Boleyn. After she bore Elizabeth and a stillborn son, Boleyn was beheaded for adultery—a trumped-up charge—when Elizabeth was but three. Henry then married Jane Seymour, who finally produced a male heir, the prince Edward.

Much of Elizabeth's childhood and youth were difficult and spent away from court because her father rejected her. When he died and Edward came to the throne, she soon fell under suspicion of complicity in a plot to overthrow him. Her careful response to questions saved her. When Edward died, Mary came to the throne. She tried to restore the Catholic Church, leading to several Protestant rebellions, which led the queen to throw her half-sister into the Tower of London for a few months and eventually send her to Hatfield under house arrest.

Read more:  http://blog.oup.com/2011/11/elizabeth/   

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

Orchid

Hahaha... I can imagine how tame "juicy" would be for Henry VIII's era :laugh:

Despite being a republican I think it's wonderful to have historical evidence in the actual hand of someone notorious.  To have handwritten love notes by Henry VIII to Anne Boleyn is a saucy and personal bit of history. It certainly beats the second hand sources of modern writers.
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things."
-Winston Churchil

cinrit

I particularly liked the letter where Henry told Anne that he couldn't wait to (see? touch?) her "pretty little duckys again".  :D

The first time I saw an artifact was sometime in the 1970's, at the Folger Shakespeare Theater in Washington, D.C., when there was a display of items belonging to Elizabeth I.  The only thing I specifically remember was her bible ... or maybe her book of hours.  I found it fascinating that I was looking at something she'd used daily.  Of course, I probably would have been just as fascinated had I seen a cookbook that her kitchen maid used.

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

Orchid

That's perhaps pushing it a little too far for me :laugh: ... I can't say that I feel awe because someone has used it, touched it etc  - rather I enjoy the traces of history more generically.
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things."
-Winston Churchil

Orchid

Daily Mail Article

QuoteElizabeth Tailboys was the Tudor monarch's illegitimate lovechild who would have changed the course of English history had the King, pictured, acknowledged her as his at the time.
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things."
-Winston Churchil

missbliss

Umm - if she was illegitimate and he never married Bessie Blount, then she could never have inherited.  It is true that at various times, he declared Mary and Elizabeth illegitimate, but he HAD married their mothers.

cinrit

Well, truly, there is nothing to prove that the child was his, in the first place.  She may have been, but Mary Boleyn's child may have been his, too.  As much as we've heard about Mary Boleyn's first (at least) child, has anyone heard of Bessie Blount's daughter?  This is the first I've heard of her.

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

FanDianaFancy

#7
Doesn't  matter  if  he  did  have another daughter    or  did  not.
Hen  had  a  son  or  two  ,  but  they  were  called that  ugly  word  of  the  day.
That  other  daughter(s)  would  not have  been crowned  being daughters and then  outside  of  marriage.
If  any of  those  others would  have  been crowned it  would  have  been the sons  called that  ugly  word  of the  day.
I  have  heard  of Bessie  Blount.
Of course there  are  scholars  who  say yes, Mary  Boelyn's son  was his,  and others  say  not.

http://queryblog.tudorhistory.org/2006/01/question-from-jennifer-henry-viiis.html

Above  link has  some  interest  about  both  of  these  things:  Mary's  son, and Bessie 's.

http://www.angelfire.com/mi4/polcrt/Henry.html

You  can  look  up  the  other  100 links.

I  would assume  it  is  really  hard  to  pinpoint  which  was  his and  not.  One thing  is certain,  he  did  have  children  outside  of  marriages.
Who  knows  how  many  now  for  who really  knew  how   many  then.   The  conspiracy theories  can  grow and you find  links  here  and there.
He  was  King. Having  the  8  wives,  then  mistresses  and  lastly,  just   plain ole bed  warmers was  his  life.  It  is  not  as  if  he was  selective  and there  was  birth control. He  was  King.

amabel

If you mean bastard, I think we all know what ti means.  and there's never been any indication that Henry had more than 1 child by Elizabeth Blount and no serious historian believes that Mary Boleyn  had children by him. 
And Henry had 6 wives, not 8.

FanDianaFancy

Opps, Herny the 8th  with the 6  wives. I  got  my  8  mixed  up.
True  about  Mary's  son not being his,  as  I  said,  but (movie) Anne  of One  Thousand  Days  implied  this  and (movie) The  Other Boylen Girl, whatver the movies  were  called  have implied  Marys'  son  was  his.
One  way sources  say yes.  The other way says  no  because  of  the dates  of  the people  and evnts, timeline...Mary;s return to England, court, her sons's brith, Carey  marraige, etc.

amabel

Quote from: FanDianaFancy on January 28, 2012, 03:25:14 AM
Opps, Herny the 8th  with the 6  wives. I  got  my  8  mixed  up.
True  about  Mary's  son not being his,  as  I  said,  but (movie) Anne  of One  Thousand  Days  implied  this  and (movie) The  Other Boylen Girl, whatver the movies  were  called  have implied  Marys'  son  was  his.

there are no reputatable sources to say Mary b's children were Henry's

cinrit

^^ True.  "Anne of the Thousand Days" was one of the more accurate historical movies about Henry and Anne, but it still had several facts wrong.  Claiming that Mary's unborn child was Henry's was just thrown in for dramatic effect. 

Amabel, let me know when you get your website set up. :)

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

Macrobug

And if you add into the mix books like Philippa Gregory's "The Other Boleyn Girl", it gets really confusing.   She touts herself as a historian more than a fictional writer, making it seem like the events surrounding  Henry VIII in the book are historically correct.   
GNU Terry Pratchett

memememe

#13
Historians give a version of events - not all historians agree on what happened so to say  "She touts herself as a historian more than a fictional writer"
is fine if you realise that another historian could write something completely different and still claim that their version is historically correct.

History isn't about facts but about interpretations which is why you get entire schools of historical interpretation with different versions of the same events and the different schools all see themselves as 'historically correct'.


Macrobug

#14
That is very true that historians have interpretations of events

Philippa Gregory's books are not interpretations of historical events such as Henry VIII children etc.  She creates fiction loosely based on events.  Authors do that all the time; what many historians object to with PG is her assertion that her novels are accurate fact.  Which was my point; it is hard for most people excluding historians to determine what is fact and what is fiction when movies and novels, especially those that are touted as accurate, mess around with history.

This article is particularly annoying.  There is no way that Elizabeth Tailboys would have inherited the throne, even if she was the daughter of the king.  She wasn't acknowledged  as Henry's child, the line of succession was clear who was to inherit the throne and she wasn't anywhere on it. She was the heiress and became the 4th Baroness Tailboys of Kyme - obviously making her the acknowledged legitimate child of the 1st Baron.   
GNU Terry Pratchett

cinrit

I vaguely remember reading somewhere that Philippa Gregory made a remark that she regrets having written "The Other Boleyn" Girl as she did.  I wish I could remember where I read that, but it was several years ago ...

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

FanDianaFancy

Yes anabel and others, that is what I  said.
Same  thing you  said.  Some  scholars  say this  50  one  way  and  others say the oppostie. The  dates  are  off, best  known  dates,  and for the  movies 's  sake,  good  drama.

amabel

Quote from: cinrit on January 28, 2012, 06:54:23 PM
^^ True.  "Anne of the Thousand Days" was one of the more accurate historical movies about Henry and Anne, but it still had several facts wrong.  Claiming that Mary's unborn child was Henry's was just thrown in for dramatic effect. 

Cindy

It is one of hte better movies about Anne... but it is FULL of historical inaccuracies such as the claim that Anne was very much sexually active almost from childhood, or that Mary B's children were the king's... And IIRC it showed Mary attending her mother Cath of Aragon on her deahtbed, when M and C had been separated for years.

cinrit

QuoteA saddlecloth reputedly used by Queen Elizabeth I during a state visit to Bristol in 1574 has sold for £19,000.

The emerald green saddlecloth is believed to have been used by the Virgin Queen in a procession through the city more than 400 years ago.

Elaborately decorated with gold lace and fringe, the heirloom - said to be cursed - has been in the Kington family for generations.

Expected to fetch £10,000, it was sold for almost double its estimate.

Her mother was beheaded, her sister had her thrown in the Tower of London and her cousin was executed on her orders...

The saddlecloth is thought to have been used by Queen Elizabeth I to ride in a procession through the cobbled streets of Bristol during a three-day visit to the city.

Queen Elizabeth-signed guest book up for sale - Monsters and Critics 

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.


cinrit

QuoteElizabeth I's Portrait Brings Us Face to Face with the Ravages of Age

If you think the beauty myth is oppressive nowadays, picture what it was like to be a woman in Renaissance Europe. The Renaissance created a cult of female beauty so all-pervasive that it shapes western perceptions and fantasies right down to today. From Botticelli's Venus to Titian's Flora, the greatest artists dedicated their genius to imposing impossible standards of beauty on a world that, in reality, was scarred by pox, ravaged by poverty and untouched by hygiene.

No wonder the tiny minority of women who got to control their image instructed painters to preserve their youthful good looks, or fabricate a finer face than they ever had. Only the handful of women who ruled states had any such power. Titian's portrait of Isabella d' Este, marchioness of Mantua, which hangs in Vienna's Kunsthistorisches Museum, shows her as a twentysomething beauty, soft skin unblemished by wrinkles, in the bloom of youth. In reality, she was about 52 when Titian painted it.

Elizabeth I ruled a much bigger territory than Isabella, and got a law made in England prohibiting the circulation of unflattering portraits of her. Elizabeth's portraits are notoriously fictitious in always showing her as a pearly-skinned icon of Renaissance beauty even when she was old. This is what makes a newly revealed portrait of her from the workshop of Marcus Gheeraerts so remarkable.

Elizabeth I's portrait brings us face to face with the ravages of age | Art and design | guardian.co.uk 

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

cinrit

I would wager Elizabeth I never saw this portrait.  Not only was she personally vain, but it would show a vulnerability that she didn't want seen by the outside world.

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

cinrit

QuoteMore than 400 years after her untimely death, Anne Boleyn remains a source of interest and intrigue.

The success of TV show The Tudors and Hilary Mantel's Booker prize winning Wolf Hall and Bring Up The Bodies proves that we still have an appetite for the rise and fall of the six wives of King Henry VIII.

And the life of his second wife, Anne, is the most scintillating story of all.

But while the fictional accounts play up her role as a seductress and an adulteress who was even accused of relations with her own brother - what is the truth about the downfall of the Queen?

Cheating seductress or framed by Henry VIII? Find out the truth about Anne Boleyn at The Daily Mail Chalke Valley History Festival | Mail Online 

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

Macrobug

Agree, there is an oversaturation of all things Boleyn.  I would be interested in more stuff on Kathyrn Parr
GNU Terry Pratchett

amabel

Quote from: cinrit on May 30, 2013, 06:25:46 PM
Have you bought any of them, Amabel?  I haven't.  The last one I bought was Eric Ives' ... many years ago.

Cindy
I try not ot buy expensive books but I have quite a few novels about Anne B which were written years ago.  Someare good, some not so good.  I have read the Ives book more than once and it is an excellent biography.  But you know all the stupid novels that have come out in the wake of "Other Boleyn Girl" an "the Tudors".  That's what has made me feel fed up with the whole thing..

Double post auto-merged: May 31, 2013, 04:33:34 AM


Quote from: Macrobug on May 30, 2013, 08:50:34 PM
Agree, there is an oversaturation of all things Boleyn.  I would be interested in more stuff on Kathyrn Parr

Or anyone but the Tudors and Henry and his six wives!!  there are lots of interesting royals of the Victorian age..