The problem of Catherine Cambridge’s womb watchers

[georgiana996]

@rebound , what's with your obsession with the word just ? It was a comparison , she is first and foremost a royal , and expected to carry out duties , not sit at home and be a home maker . As a royal being just a wife isn't enough . You took that to mean All housewives are deemed useless , or "undervalued" or insulted , which was not the case at all .
I wont change the way I view her and context is everything , say what you want but her marrying up isnt going to make her special in my eyes .

[Curryong]

I don't think the general public could be bothered to read all of Mantel's speech and dissect them. Articles reported in tabloids like the Daily Mail are designed for the instant knee-jerk reaction of their readers.

Both Philip and Elizabeth were royals from birth as they were grandchildren of a reigning sovereign, (their fathers were princes)  even if Philip did have to go into exile very early in life! I took the Queen Mother's remark about Philip being a Hun as him appearing very 'rough around the edges', brusque, not well-mannered or urbane, not a matter of racial origins. Apparently courtiers found the young Philip a bit that way, too.

[Canuck]

I disagree, limabeany.  Philip is only famous for who he married as well.  Will is a man and married a woman, so Kate's fame comes from being a wife -- but if Will had instead been a girl he would (in all likelihood) have married a man, and then that man would be famous for his marriage just like Kate is.

Actually Phillip isn't just famous for who he married as well Phillip was born a Prince of Greece and Denmark and was a war hero before his marriage to Elizabeth. When he married it was thought he had to give up his titles and citizenship however it was proven in the 70's that wasn't so since he was also descended from Sophia the Electress.

That's all well and good, but in terms of what he's known for:  it's being Queen Elizabeth's husband and Charles' father.  Just as Kate will be remembered primarily as William's wife/George's mother.

[Lady Adams]

^^ Well, in my opinion-- which I share with others here-- Philip is known for more than than who he married and his children, as was the Queen Mother, and Princess Diana.   :windsor1: Kate may still be known for her causes and patronages, but as of now, she is known for being a wife and mother.  :shrug:

[DaisyMeRollin]

It's particularly annoying to me when some ppl don't bother to read an entire argument (of anything) and then pass judgment on the tid bit that they read. Yet something came to mind when that happened, if the same misunderstanding had occurred, but the comments were aimed at someone like Letizia of Spain or Crown Princess Victoria would the comments on their defense have focused mostly on their looks or their personal accomplishments?

We've been privy to the spin in comparisons to presented in certain media outlets that continually pit contemporary royal families against each other *coughs*, and I think it highlights the desperation. It's even conveyed in the most vapid aspects with people years Kate's senior, even with Rania of Jordan and Mary of Denmark.

In that, maybe the celeb sexualization of monarchs is most pronounced. It's always pitting someone against another, and with Kate, more often than not, sometimes that's the only defense people have for her. That speaks volumes. (Commentary sections are the pits.)

I don't think the general public could be bothered to read all of Mantel's speech and dissect them. Articles reported in tabloids like the Daily Mail are designed for the instant knee-jerk reaction of their readers.

Both Philip and Elizabeth were royals from birth as they were grandchildren of a reigning sovereign, (their fathers were princes)  even if Philip did have to go into exile very early in life! I took the Queen Mother's remark about Philip being a Hun as him appearing very 'rough around the edges', brusque, not well-mannered or urbane, not a matter of racial origins. Apparently courtiers found the young Philip a bit that way, too.

Agreed.

I think it's unfair to trivialize Phillip's accomplishments as an individual when he had his own struggles with abandonment, being tossed from household to household at a very early age, and untimely DEATH within his immediate family in comparison to William. People may or may not like Phillip for his own un-PC gaffes throughout the years, but maybe they forget that he had it really rough in comparison?

I see the comparisons to Harry and Phillip. Unabashed lifestyle and humor might be a coping mechanism for both of them in light of tragic circumstances. Then again, I'm partial to underdogs and anti-heroes.  :shrug:

[KaTerina Montague]

I got irritated with Mantel's comments at first, the. I read what she actually said and it made a lot of sense. I remember someone stating that the media purposely misled the public on what she said because she was mostly criticizing them. This issue that Mantel brought up is clearly present in a documentary on WnK in Canada and all the host can talk about is her freak in clothes. She asks the crowds why they like her and the answer, a part from her being a normal girl, are she's pretty, her clothes, and her hair. In another documentary one commentator had the nerve to say her job was to have a baby. I thought I had been thrown back into the Tudor period with this crap. Instead of the husband seeing his wife as a brood horse it is the masses that hold such archaic ideas.

[Limabeany]

Actually, a few posters here, have used that phrase to say that Kate doesn't need to work because giving birth is her duty and she has done that.

[PrincessOfPeace]

Kate clearly does work for the Firm. We can debate whether she does enough but her engagement totals since her wedding day put her right in between William and Harry.

Kate has taken part in three very successful foreign tours and is patron of a multi-million £ charitable foundation.

There is no modern precedent for a royal in either Kate's or William's position and in my opinion at least Kate is doing a wonderful job and opinion polls in Britain would back me up on this.

[TLLK]

A little bit of advice---Don't ever say in a job interview that you are "just a..." student, bartender, forester, whatever.  You won't get the job. A ton of people interpret that exactly the same way I do. They will think you don't value what you do if you say you are "just a".

Got it. I'll be sure to hide my shame at how much I devalue myself; I can only hope they can be fooled...


Re: Lima and Canuck: I've wondered how Philip feels about his public position. I mean traditionally it has the man that has been seen as the dominant partner, but with him it's not the case when it comes to his public title. But pertaining to the baby question, William gets that too. Maybe the press are just dying for baby fever.

My feeling is that Phillip with his personality has struggled with that position for years especially in the early years of his marriage to Elizabeth. When his uncle Lord Mountbatten mentioned that the House of Windsor would now be known as the House of Mountbatten declarations went out that this would not be the case. The BRF would not follow the tradition of a woman taking her husband's name like Victoria did when she married Albert. Phillip has been known to declare that he was just a "bloody amoeba."

Phillip's reaction to this is what likely prompted the Queen to reveal that their untitled descendents would have the "surname" of Mountbatten-Windsor. On occasion Phillip and Elizabeth's descendents have used the name on official documents ie: marriage certificates.

Phillip had to find his place within the BRF as someone who more than Elizabeth's consort. His DoE scheme, his nearly year long trip through the Commonwealth, his solo trips and his place as head of the nuclear family are IMO his way of establishing himself as a distinct figure. At times his engagement numbers have higher or lower than HM's but as the UK's longest serving consort, he's certainly created his own place in 20th-21st century history.

IMO other male consorts of the reigning female monarchs have struggled as well at different times in their marriages. The late Prince Claus of the NL began as one of the more controversial members of the family due to his German citizenship and conscription into the army during WWII. There were protests on his and Beatrix's wedding day. He suffered from severe depression bouts and later Parkinson's disease.  His father-in-law's financial scandal affected his role as Prince Consort when his wife ascended to the throne. However by the end of his life he was one of the more popular figures in the Dutch royal family and had an excellent partnership with his wife. He was influential in guiding his eldest to find a cause to support during his years as Prince of Orange and encouraged his younger sons Friso and Constantijn to establish careers outside the royal world.

Prince Henrik of Denmark has also had his own issues within the family. He very publicly aired his displeasure at his wife and his eldest over his role within the family in the early 2000's. The family feud was quickly ended, but Henrik made his concerns known that he had felt overlooked and wanted to assert himself. He too takes charge as head of the family while his wife is HoS.

In summary, depending upon the individual's personality it can be a struggle for the male consorts as well. I hope that the Swedish royals are considering this with Prince Daniel. 

[TLLK]

I got irritated with Mantel's comments at first, the. I read what she actually said and it made a lot of sense. I remember someone stating that the media purposely misled the public on what she said because she was mostly criticizing them. This issue that Mantel brought up is clearly present in a documentary on WnK in Canada and all the host can talk about is her freak in clothes. She asks the crowds why they like her and the answer, a part from her being a normal girl, are she's pretty, her clothes, and her hair. In another documentary one commentator had the nerve to say her job was to have a baby. I thought I had been thrown back into the Tudor period with this crap. Instead of the husband seeing his wife as a brood horse it is the masses that hold such archaic ideas.

:goodpost:

As with any hereditary monarchy, the heir and his/her spouse do have to have a legitimate offspring to continue the line of succession. If that is impossible than it would fall to the next sibling in line of succession ie: situations in Belgium and Japan.

However, the press can consider how they remark upon this fact and use tact and sense.

[TLLK]

It's particularly annoying to me when some ppl don't bother to read an entire argument (of anything) and then pass judgment on the tid bit that they read. Yet something came to mind when that happened, if the same misunderstanding had occurred, but the comments were aimed at someone like Letizia of Spain or Crown Princess Victoria would the comments on their defense have focused mostly on their looks or their personal accomplishments?

We've been privy to the spin in comparisons to presented in certain media outlets that continually pit contemporary royal families against each other *coughs*, and I think it highlights the desperation. It's even conveyed in the most vapid aspects with people years Kate's senior, even with Rania of Jordan and Mary of Denmark.

In that, maybe the celeb sexualization of monarchs is most pronounced. It's always pitting someone against another, and with Kate, more often than not, sometimes that's the only defense people have for her. That speaks volumes. (Commentary sections are the pits.)

I don't think the general public could be bothered to read all of Mantel's speech and dissect them. Articles reported in tabloids like the Daily Mail are designed for the instant knee-jerk reaction of their readers.

Both Philip and Elizabeth were royals from birth as they were grandchildren of a reigning sovereign, (their fathers were princes)  even if Philip did have to go into exile very early in life! I took the Queen Mother's remark about Philip being a Hun as him appearing very 'rough around the edges', brusque, not well-mannered or urbane, not a matter of racial origins. Apparently courtiers found the young Philip a bit that way, too.

Agreed.

I think it's unfair to trivialize Phillip's accomplishments as an individual when he had his own struggles with abandonment, being tossed from household to household at a very early age, and untimely DEATH within his immediate family in comparison to William. People may or may not like Phillip for his own un-PC gaffes throughout the years, but maybe they forget that he had it really rough in comparison?

I see the comparisons to Harry and Phillip. Unabashed lifestyle and humor might be a coping mechanism for both of them in light of tragic circumstances. Then again, I'm partial to underdogs and anti-heroes.  :shrug:

IMHO Phillip was the one grandparent who could truly comprehend what William and Harry were going through with their parents' separation, divorce and her death due to his own circumstances in life. Phillip may have been in worse financial shape, but his parents' marital breakdown was not front page news. As to who had it worse, I'll call it an even draw. Considering his past and theirs,  I believe this has forged a close bond between the three men.

[Trudie]

I disagree, limabeany.  Philip is only famous for who he married as well.  Will is a man and married a woman, so Kate's fame comes from being a wife -- but if Will had instead been a girl he would (in all likelihood) have married a man, and then that man would be famous for his marriage just like Kate is.

Actually Phillip isn't just famous for who he married as well Phillip was born a Prince of Greece and Denmark and was a war hero before his marriage to Elizabeth. When he married it was thought he had to give up his titles and citizenship however it was proven in the 70's that wasn't so since he was also descended from Sophia the Electress.

That's all well and good, but in terms of what he's known for:  it's being Queen Elizabeth's husband and Charles' father.  Just as Kate will be remembered primarily as William's wife/George's mother.

Wrong again Philip will be known as a war hero and for his many accomplishments such as The Duke of Edinburghs Award Scheme, President of the World Wide Wildlife Foundation and more.

Kate clearly does work for the Firm. We can debate whether she does enough but her engagement totals since her wedding day put her right in between William and Harry.

Kate has taken part in three very successful foreign tours and is patron of a multi-million £ charitable foundation.

There is no modern precedent for a royal in either Kate's or William's position and in my opinion at least Kate is doing a wonderful job and opinion polls in Britain would back me up on this.

Actually there is King George and Queen Mary. When they first married his father was still Prince of Wales and they also did royal engagements on behalf of Queen Victoria though in those days Queen Mary was constantly pregnant as was the norm, However they did do considerable work.

[SophieChloe]

OK...Many good points/posts.  However, we are getting WAY off topic  :hug:


I have the option to lock it and do some housekeeping...I'd rather not  :love6: :hug: :love6:

Let's get back on track... :vday4:

[TLLK]

^^^Pssst hire a cleaning crew. I'll send you some references.  :wink:

[Limabeany]

You are part of the cleaning crew, as are all moderators.  :blush:

[TLLK]

What????? I need to look at my contract again!!!! :teehee:

[sara8150]

Prince William got estates from his mother when Diana's passing in 1997 and he took around £25-£30 million when he was 25-30 years old and Harry will taking also when Harry turned 30 on sept 15 include his mother's beloved jewels and mores needs they can fit for Kate or Harry's future wife chosen..

Kate had her own asst they can help her include dressing,secretary,nanny,etc what needs for her and George's needs..

Kate will get pregnant but no hurried when George become 2-3 or mores years old if Kate says time get pregnant some days we have wait for official from couple and palace to announce.