The problem of Catherine Cambridge’s womb watchers

HistoryGirl · July 31, 2014, 06:32:48 PM

I'd agree that the main reason for this being speculation is because that's what's done with most royal women after they marry. But I'm not quite sure what the issue is with it because I think that's really all Kate wanted to be. Now as a princess of the UK, it is reasonable for citizens to expect more since they partly pay for her. But I do think that William and the family prefer someone that keeps her head down and just looks pretty because smart headstrong women might cause them trouble. Control seems to be what they're interested in (not at all saying that's the route I would take or that it's right)

georgiana996 · July 31, 2014, 07:18:48 PM

Maybe that's how they want it ...... just a trophy wife :( :Jen: every body chooses their own life , I guess this is all kate ever wanted ,if not with William with another well to do husband , that's the route her best known friends have taken .

Lady Adams · July 31, 2014, 07:56:50 PM

This leads to an important question: who's approval actually is necessary-- The Queen or the public?

HistoryGirl · July 31, 2014, 08:01:33 PM

Great question Lady Adams. In my mind, it should be the public; however, in practice, I think it's probably the Queen.

Canuck · July 31, 2014, 08:03:56 PM

I would say both. The queen is the "boss" and I would guess that what she says (when she gets involved) goes. Of course public opinion also matters, but it can be fickle and hewing too closely to it seems unwisely short-term focused to me. The Queen has been very successful in maintaining the role and popularity of the BRF over the past six decades, I think in part because she thinks in a longer-term way rather than just trying to do whatever polls well at a given moment.

Rebound · July 31, 2014, 08:11:40 PM

I doubt William sees Kate as a "trophy wife". I also think that "trophy" belongs to second wives who are much younger than their wealthy husbands.

I also have problems with saying someone is "just a (trophy) wife". I have been a stay-at-home mom as well as taking a full-time job when the kids went to Kindergarten. I'd wager staying home with little ones is far more work than most jobs. It's much harder than having others watch your kids while you work. When I saw how much help working moms have, I was jealous! Anyway, "just a wife" or "just a mother" isn't easy, no matter how many hours you put in at a job outside the home.

It sounds as if there is no value to someone who is "just" a wife or mother. Beyond a doubt, there is great value there, not just for the family, but for society as well.

HistoryGirl · July 31, 2014, 08:15:31 PM

Personally I don't think its easy to be a wife or mother; there are days where I think that's what I wanna be and others where I think it'd be too much. However, I don't think it's fair to women that have jobs and don't want to be mothers that they don't have a difficult life that involves a great deal of work. I don't see anything wrong with being a housewife; which is why I don't see it as an insult when someone mentions that that's what Kate wants to be/is.

Limabeany · July 31, 2014, 08:16:28 PM

Quote from: HistoryGirl on July 31, 2014, 08:15:31 PM
Personally I don't think its easy to be a wife or mother; there are days where I think that's what I wanna be and others where I think it'd be too much. However, I don't think it's fair to women that have jobs and don't want to be mothers that they don't have a difficult life that involves a great deal of work. I don't see anything wrong with being a housewife; which is why I don't see it as an insult when someone mentions that that's what Kate wants to be/is.

The problem is she is a woman with a job she is expected to do, in addition to being a wife and mother, so although it is wonderful to be a housewife, for Kate it is not an option that shows her as a woman of integrity, especially given that she is living in the lifestyle and with the means and budget, not of a housewife but of a future queen of the UK.

In the wise words of Lady Adams:

:clap: :goodpost: :clap:

Quote from: Lady Adams on July 31, 2014, 02:14:58 PM
Canuck, I do not think that being a wife and mother is a "bad" thing-- and I don't know anyone who would say that, frankly!

And if Kate wants to be solely a wife and mother-- I say go for it! But, then she should not take any money from taxpayers. She should give up her title and live off William's trust and salary. No more free accommodations at KP (or more extensive renovations), no jewels from the vault, flights on the BRF's leased helo, free admission to the best seats Wimbledon, etc...

Remember when George's birth certificate was released? Instead of keeping her occupation blank or putting "wife/mother," William wrote that Kate's occupation was "Princess of the United Kingdom" It's time she start acting like that is, indeed, her genuine occupation.

HistoryGirl · July 31, 2014, 08:22:58 PM

Oh I know Lima; I was responding to the post that said some take it as an insult to imply that Kate is "just" a wife and mother. And I was saying that's what it appears she wants to be so I don't see how anyone could take offense. Of course, I agree that because she's not a regular housewife she also has a responsibility to do more.

Canuck · July 31, 2014, 08:23:59 PM

I've said throughout this thread, as has everyone else, that OF COURSE Kate has to do Royal duties as a result of marrying Will and that OF COURSE she cannot just be a traditional stay-at-home mom. My objection was to a statement earlier in the thread that suggested there was something wrong with her primary accomplishment being wife/mother -- which, given her role, is basically guaranteed to be what she is remembered for.

Double post auto-merged: July 31, 2014, 08:25:05 PM

I don't really think you and I are disagreeing, HistoryGirl. :flower: My problem wasn't that someone was describing Kate as wife/mother, but that they were implying there was something wrong with that.

georgiana996 · July 31, 2014, 08:25:31 PM

Quote from: HistoryGirl on July 31, 2014, 08:15:31 PM
Personally I don't think its easy to be a wife or mother; there are days where I think that's what I wanna be and others where I think it'd be too much. However, I don't think it's fair to women that have jobs and don't want to be mothers that they don't have a difficult life that involves a great deal of work. I don't see anything wrong with being a housewife; which is why I don't see it as an insult when someone mentions that that's what Kate wants to be/is.

:thumbsup:
She has more than enough help with her house work and not to mention a full time nanny , shes not a housewife . She is a trophy wife , there is a difference .
You know at the end of the day I dont feel she should be compared to housewives because she clearly doesn't do the same amount of work ,and she doesnt perform royal duties either so that leaves me no other choice but to call her a trophy wife .

If people are getting offended then they would be the ones who view it as an insult , not me , for me its merely a fact . Kate is what she is .

HistoryGirl · July 31, 2014, 08:30:04 PM

Quote from: Canuck on July 31, 2014, 08:23:59 PM
I've said throughout this thread, as has everyone else, that OF COURSE Kate has to do Royal duties as a result of marrying Will and that OF COURSE she cannot just be a traditional stay-at-home mom. My objection was to a statement earlier in the thread that suggested there was something wrong with her primary accomplishment being wife/mother -- which, given her role, is basically guaranteed to be what she is remembered for.
Double post auto-merged: July 31, 2014, 08:25:05 PM

I don't really think you and I are disagreeing, HistoryGirl. :flower: My problem wasn't that someone was describing Kate as wife/mother, but that they were implying there was something wrong with that.

:) no problem. I agree with georgiana in that it is what it is. She is a wife/mother that enjoys spending time with her child. I just didn't get the offense to saying what she is. And also that it isn't right to assume that because you're not a wife/mother your work isn't as tough or demanding, just different. And I'm not saying you were saying that at all, im just reiterating to clarify :)

Canuck · July 31, 2014, 08:33:04 PM

Quote from: georgiana996 on July 31, 2014, 08:25:31 PM
She has more than enough help with her house work and not to mention a full time nanny , shes not a housewife . She is a trophy wife , there is a difference .
You know at the end of the day I dont feel she should be compared to housewives because she clearly doesn't do the same amount of work ,and she doesnt perform royal duties either so that leaves me no other choice but to call her a trophy wife .

I think it might just be a difference in terminology. I (and I think some other people here) would use "trophy wife" to describe a woman who was married purely as a status symbol for the husband -- because she's young and hot. I think trophy wives can (though probably less often do) have full-time jobs or do all the housework and childcare themselves. The thing that makes them a trophy wife to me is that they're a status symbol -- a trophy. Kate pretty clearly doesn't fit that definition, since she and Will are the same age and dated for a decade before getting married, suggesting they were actually compatible and married for love rather than because Will thought she'd look good on his arm.

georgiana996 · July 31, 2014, 08:45:47 PM

I dont think age matters :shrug: not all trophy wives are younger and not all young wives are marrying for the money . You would think in the 21st century women wouldn't want to live like this ( I certainly wouldn't) but they do and a lot of times they end up getting MRS degrees , mind you the degree can be in the arts , sciences even humanities [law] , they find someone who will be able to support them , comes from a good family (has property and a trust fund) these girls dedicate their time to staying above average and keeping the imo future trophy hubby , 4 years later they are engaged or married and assuming all the responsibilities of the perfect stepford wife mostly with "help" of course , its all graceful and if anyone utters a word , theres always the love at first sight story how dare you question it and thats the end of conversation lol .
I am not saying this is all relationships but it does happen and trophy wife can be subjective , I view the MRS as a trophy wife in the making . You see thats where my problem is , these girls are honest about it and they dont pretend to be something they're not . Now kate she was supposed to hit the ground running but 3 yrs later all I can see is a trophy wife . And kate isn't even 21 shes in her 30s , its safe to say this is who she is , she didn't recently graduate and is busy finding herself ..nope this is kate and those were her goals

Trudie · July 31, 2014, 10:39:41 PM

Quote from: cinrit on July 31, 2014, 05:05:53 PM
Quote from: Lady Adams on July 31, 2014, 04:06:09 PM
Oh dear. I'm afraid I must disagree with that... Queen Elizabeth I, was never seen as just the wife of King George and the mother of Queen Elizabeth II-- just ask any of her 350 patronages!

I'm sure she was very important to the 350 charities that she was patron of, but if you were to ask the general population ... those millions of people on the street, which is who I assume we're talking about when we say "remembered as" ... what is she remembered for, they would probably say she is remembered mostly as the mother of the current Queen and the wife of George VI.

And of course, we know it took several decades for her to reach that number of 350 charities.

Cindy

Hardly Cindy Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother is remembered for more then merely being the wife of a King and Mother of a Queen she is remembered for her work and duty during the War refusing to leave and supporting not only her husband but the nation who suffered during the blitz. Hitler even called her the most dangerous woman in Europe. Her role in history books is as secure as Eleanor Roosevelt.

cinrit · July 31, 2014, 10:54:30 PM

^^ I said if you were to ask the millions of people on the street, meaning people who don't follow Royals closely or at all. I think I'm close to being accurate.

Cindy

HistoryGirl · July 31, 2014, 10:58:45 PM

Quote from: Trudie on July 31, 2014, 10:39:41 PM
Quote from: cinrit on July 31, 2014, 05:05:53 PM
Quote from: Lady Adams on July 31, 2014, 04:06:09 PM
Oh dear. I'm afraid I must disagree with that... Queen Elizabeth I, was never seen as just the wife of King George and the mother of Queen Elizabeth II-- just ask any of her 350 patronages!

I'm sure she was very important to the 350 charities that she was patron of, but if you were to ask the general population ... those millions of people on the street, which is who I assume we're talking about when we say "remembered as" ... what is she remembered for, they would probably say she is remembered mostly as the mother of the current Queen and the wife of George VI.

And of course, we know it took several decades for her to reach that number of 350 charities.

Cindy

Hardly Cindy Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother is remembered for more then merely being the wife of a King and Mother of a Queen she is remembered for her work and duty during the War refusing to leave and supporting not only her husband but the nation who suffered during the blitz. Hitler even called her the most dangerous woman in Europe. Her role in history books is as secure as Eleanor Roosevelt.

I'm inclined to agree. Her work during the war really did cement her place in general history since the blitz is one of the most famous events during WWII.

Limabeany · July 31, 2014, 11:29:10 PM

Even the Queen Mother is being brought in to help the "Kate Middleton isn't work-shy, just a normal royal" cause? Well, after seeing the Queen dragged down to Kate's level to make Kate's lifestyle of leisure seem "normal", I shouldn't be surprised... :no:

Lady Adams · July 31, 2014, 11:34:27 PM

Quote from: Trudie on July 31, 2014, 10:39:41 PM
Quote from: cinrit on July 31, 2014, 05:05:53 PM
Quote from: Lady Adams on July 31, 2014, 04:06:09 PM
Oh dear. I'm afraid I must disagree with that... Queen Elizabeth I, was never seen as just the wife of King George and the mother of Queen Elizabeth II-- just ask any of her 350 patronages!

I'm sure she was very important to the 350 charities that she was patron of, but if you were to ask the general population ... those millions of people on the street, which is who I assume we're talking about when we say "remembered as" ... what is she remembered for, they would probably say she is remembered mostly as the mother of the current Queen and the wife of George VI.

And of course, we know it took several decades for her to reach that number of 350 charities.

Cindy

Hardly Cindy Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother is remembered for more then merely being the wife of a King and Mother of a Queen she is remembered for her work and duty during the War refusing to leave and supporting not only her husband but the nation who suffered during the blitz. Hitler even called her the most dangerous woman in Europe. Her role in history books is as secure as Eleanor Roosevelt.

Fantastic comparison, Trudie!

Off topic, but I must admit I loved her official biography. It's a long read but worth it: The Queen Mother: The Official Biography (Vintage): William Shawcross: 9781400078349: Amazon.com: Books

In All I Do · July 31, 2014, 11:39:24 PM

Quote from: Limabeany on July 31, 2014, 11:29:10 PM
Even the Queen Mother is being brought in to help the "Kate Middleton isn't work-shy, just a normal royal" cause? Well, after seeing the Queen dragged down to Kate's level to make Kate's lifestyle of leisure seem "normal", I shouldn't be surprised... :no:

I don't think that's a fair characterization, given that the first person to bring up the QM in this thread was Lady Adams, and it sure wasn't to help any cause of Kate's.

Rebound · August 01, 2014, 12:48:08 AM

Definition of trophy wife from the Oxford dictionaries:
A young, attractive wife regarded as a status symbol for an older man.

Kate is not younger than William, not attractive according to some posters, not a status symbol and Will is not an older man. Therefore, she is not a trophy wife. William married her for love, not as a status symbol.

She is not "just" a wife. That implies it isn't worthy of respect, just as it would be if someone said a woman is "just" a secretary, "just" a shopgirl, or "just" works at McDonalds. It's elitist to say all of those, and borders on insulting.
_______
Queen Elizabeth might have been important to the UK, but she is nowhere near as well-known as Eleanor Roosevelt, who was outspoken in politics and even had a newspaper column. After Franklin's death, she served in the UN and helped write the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Before she married, she worked in settlement houses. She was controversial and very supportive of other women. I'm older, and I remember her with great respect.

TLLK · August 01, 2014, 12:51:01 AM

Quote from: Lady Adams on July 31, 2014, 04:06:09 PM
Quote from: Canuck on July 31, 2014, 03:26:08 PM
And frankly, I'm not sure what Kate could do about it. Even if she does as many engagements a year as HM, she will still be known in the history books as Will's wife and George's mother.
Oh dear. I'm afraid I must disagree with that... Queen Elizabeth I, was never seen as just the wife of King George and the mother of Queen Elizabeth II-- just ask any of her 350 patronages!

The late Queen Elisabeth was consort to George VI, mother of the current queen and lived a rich full life that did involve her charities, many fluffy hats, a love of horse racing and good gin. :)

HistoryGirl · August 01, 2014, 12:57:27 AM

So question: does the consort of an English royal have to be simply an accessory to the them or can they forge their own path as their own individual?

Trudie · August 01, 2014, 01:04:47 AM

Quote from: Rebound on August 01, 2014, 12:48:08 AM
Definition of trophy wife from the Oxford dictionaries:
A young, attractive wife regarded as a status symbol for an older man.

Kate is not younger than William, not attractive according to some posters, not a status symbol and Will is not an older man. Therefore, she is not a trophy wife. William married her for love, not as a status symbol.

She is not "just" a wife. That implies it isn't worthy of respect, just as it would be if someone said a woman is "just" a secretary, "just" a shopgirl, or "just" works at McDonalds. It's elitist to say all of those, and borders on insulting.
_______
Queen Elizabeth might have been important to the UK, but she is nowhere near as well-known as Eleanor Roosevelt, who was outspoken in politics and even had a newspaper column. After Franklin's death, she served in the UN and helped write the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Before she married, she worked in settlement houses. She was controversial and very supportive of other women.

Wrong before the War during the U.S. tour the King and Queen actively tried to enlist FDR and the U.S. to assist in the event of war. The Queen Mother set the tone of living like her people observing austerity measures a BP that even Eleanor Roosevelt wrote about including no heat and red lines painted in baths for water restrictions. During World War 1 a young Elizabeth helped in her family home that had been turned into a hospital for the wounded and helped with basic nursing and feeding and cheering up the soldiers. Elizabeth was not political but she rose to her duty and worked.

As much as I like Kate she has not worked much before or since her marriage she is a wife and mother for sure but just what else has she accomplished that the media and public have nothing better to do then look for signs of pregnancy?

sandy · August 01, 2014, 01:09:07 AM

Also Kate is not a housewife. She married into the Firm and is expected to give back. If she wanted to stay home all the time and do no work, she married the wrong man. And even if housewives don't "work" they have outside interests and are not chained to the house, they have sitters and they can have hobbies and charity work that they enjoy outside the house. And housewives do have help from housekeepers, au pairs and that does not make them "bad" wives or mothers.