Duchess of Cambridge - @ Wildlife Photographer of the Year Awards

[Canuck]

It doesn't seem that long ago that I read critiques here that Kate dressed too conservatively and should "take chances".  But when she does, she's criticized for it?

Cindy

Exactly.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a Royal showing a hint of cleavage or a bit of leg at an evening gala, so long as it doesn't go too far.  Diana certainly did, as does Sophie Wessex (more cleavage than leg there), etc.  This dress isn't my taste, but it's perfectly appropriate and is exactly what people keep saying Kate should do -- wear something different, take some chances, dress like a young woman, etc.

[Lady Adams]

It doesn't seem that long ago that I read critiques here that Kate dressed too conservatively and should "take chances".  But when she does, she's criticized for it?

Cindy

Exactly.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a Royal showing a hint of cleavage or a bit of leg at an evening gala, so long as it doesn't go too far.  Diana certainly did, as does Sophie Wessex (more cleavage than leg there), etc.  This dress isn't my taste, but it's perfectly appropriate and is exactly what people keep saying Kate should do -- wear something different, take some chances, dress like a young woman, etc.

This line of thinking is problematic, in my opinion, because it lumps everyone who criticizes Kate in one category-- so no wonder the conclusion is "she can never win." As I said earlier, I liked the blue dress. Cindy, you said it wasn't your cup of tea. Those are all fine opinions to have, and it's representative of what each of us as individuals think: not some grand waves of public opinion that damn Kate no matter what. I think if anyone in the public eye is looking to "win" all the time, whether at fashion or in general-- they will be disappointed; no one can ever please everyone.

Yes some people wanted her to take risks. Sometimes they don't pan out.  :shrug: No one was overly harsh about the dress-- it just wasn't some people's favorite.

I was surprised, however, to see a lot of the comments on The Royal Order of Sartorial Splendor blog-- many people (like @Eri, @Limabeany, and @Curryong said earlier in this thread) there seemed to think her dress seemed more "celebrity" than "royal"-- then again, that blog (and its commenters) would be pleased to see Kate wearing the Delhi Durbar Tiara to visit a hospital.  ;)


PS: I know I'm quoting the post above mine, but I wanted to make sure Cindy's was in here too. I hope that's okay.  :flower:

[Canuck]

I don't mean to lump all criticism together, Lady Adams, but there are some posters who are making both of those contradictory criticisms themselves (and similarly on other issues).  I just try to keep my posts a bit vague so I'm not "calling out" particular posters for that issue.

I think many of us had some measured criticism of the dress, but there were others saying Kate looked cheap, like a z-list celebrity, wasn't appropriate, etc., which I would consider "harsh" given that she's showing a hint of cleavage and a slit just above the knee.   :shrug:

[Lady Adams]

^^ I am by no means a fan of Kate (though I used to be, and if she does a turnaround in her royal duties like Anne, I may be again)-- and I understand about being vague-- but I do believe that we should be careful about generalizing those who think differently from us, too.

As far as the dress criticisms... if you think those are harsh, you must never had read an US Weekly or watched E! Again, I liked the dress, but it did look a little celebrity-like (and, well, the Kardashians have been huge fans of the high-low hem trend) and some could call the material cheap. I was one of the people that said I didn't like the hint of cleavage. I just don't: on the Sophie, Cam, or HM, I say: support the Queen Marys, and don't let us see 'em!  ;)

[cinrit]

Cindy, you said it wasn't your cup of tea.

Yes, I said that, and it's still not my cup of tea.  That means only that I don't like the design; it doesn't mean I think it's inappropriate.  I also said that I think Kate looks good in it.

Yes some people wanted her to take risks. Sometimes they don't pan out.  :shrug: No one was overly harsh about the dress-- it just wasn't some people's favorite.

I disagree.  As you point out, there are posts declaring the dress inappropriate for a member of the Royal Family (forgive me for not looking for the exact wording), and comparing her to celebrities at award shows.

Cindy

[Lady Adams]

^^ I absolutely disagree with that. Saying a dress is meant for a celebrity, instead of a royal, is not at all harsh in my opinon. I cannot imagine the women of the ROoS blog ever being anything but fans of royal women, and even many of them commented it felt more celebrity than royal.  :shrug:

If that is harsh...well, then no wonder any small criticism needles!

[Canuck]

I don't necessarily think saying looking celebrity is harsh, but z-list, Kardashian comparisons, and cheap (not necessarily referring to the fabric) strike me as harsh for a dress like this.  I'm not saying those criticisms are over the line and shouldn't be made (everyone's entitled to their opinion) just that I disagree they apply to this outfit.  I'd disagree with anyone at OoS saying those things, too.

[cinrit]

^^ Yes, exactly.  It all depends on how the criticism is presented.

Cindy

[Lady Adams]

^^ I am starting to think that to some, any criticism of Kate is unacceptable.

[Limabeany]

I don't mean to lump all criticism together, Lady Adams, but there are some posters who are making both of those contradictory criticisms themselves (and similarly on other issues).  I just try to keep my posts a bit vague so I'm not "calling out" particular posters for that issue.

I think many of us had some measured criticism of the dress, but there were others saying Kate looked cheap, like a z-list celebrity, wasn't appropriate, etc., which I would consider "harsh" given that she's showing a hint of cleavage and a slit just above the knee.   :shrug:

Perhaps, comments and criticism can be answered on a case by case basis instead of assuming an attitude of contempt for all and any criticism based on personal sensitivities to criticism aimed at Kate Middleton. And posters can be addressed for what they post on a particular thread regardless of the level of sensitivity and tolerance for criticism of Kate Middleton. Many z-list celebrities work their bums off, which, regardless of how I feel about their lifestyles, I, at least, respect. Perhaps, what you call keeping posts vague, may not be as respectful or conducive to dialogue as a broader and less personal perspective on celebrity and royal celebrity. Criticism doesn't need to be "measured" as in tailored to the sensitivities of those who deem royals as people to be addressed by their titles and bowed to, it needs to be respectful of the forum rules and posters should not be attacked or mocked or criticized or sneered at for expressing their views according to the forum rules, softness or harshness are qualities that are too relative, subjective and personal and we are not here to judge posters but royals, celebrities and the subjects of the threads.

[Canuck]

Lady Adams, I wouldn't describe anything in this thread as "unacceptable", I just disagree with some of it.  That's true for the vast majority of things posted here -- I've very rarely seen things I would call unacceptable, but there are plenty of things I disagree (and agree!) with.

Limabeany, I'm not sure where you're getting "contempt" from.  I do my best to participate here in a way that isn't disrespectful to any of the other members.  I certainly try to avoid attacking, mocking, or sneering at others, though I absolutely do criticize the opinions expressed sometimes (as I think is welcome on this forum). 

By contrast, this is the third or fourth time in the past little while that you've directly criticized me for expressing my opinions.  I've tried to get clarification as to whether I'm actually violating any rules, and I've never been told I am.  If I'm not, then I would gently suggest that it would be conducive to keeping the focus on Royals and broader issues if you used your moderator powers to let me know when I've broken the rules but otherwise didn't keep making things personal when I disagree with your opinions.

[Limabeany]

I wasn't aware the post I quoted was a disagreement with my opinion. But, as I have said before, tolerance of posters' opinions is best, classifying posters opinions as "harsh" does not put focus on the royals. Let's do that.  :thumbsup: I have nt dressed you as a moderator but as a poster, which I also am, I wasn't aware your criticism was addressed to me as a moderator or that you are under the impression that all posts by moderators are moderation posts. Unless posts are framed

[mod]like this. [/mod] they are simply posts by members of the forum.

[Canuck]

Lady Adams let me know that the *only* moderator comments are those appearing in those boxes.  I was not responding to you as a moderator in this thread (except to say that if I was breaking the rules in any way, please do let me know with your moderator powers).

[Eri]

^ Yup!

The difference, is that Kate hacked it, she pulled off that dress, that is the way it should look with no enhanced blow up plastic surgery, nor too tight fitting. She wears the dress, sexy but at the same time looks dainty IMO.

She has another gala tonight, Rebecca English from the DM has confirmed tweeted she will be there to cover the story.

Of course ...

[HistoryGirl]

Criticism doesn't need to be "measured" as in tailored to the sensitivities of those who deem royals as people to be addressed by their titles and bowed to

Huzzah for this quote.

[cinrit]

^^ I am starting to think that to some, any criticism of Kate is unacceptable. 

I don't think there has ever been a suggestion that any criticism is unacceptable.  But certainly if a poster thinks a criticism is harsh, that's simply their opinion, like any other opinion.

Cindy

[TLLK]

^^ I am starting to think that to some, any criticism of Kate is unacceptable. 

I don't think there has ever been a suggestion that any criticism is unacceptable.  But certainly if a poster thinks a criticism is harsh, that's simply their opinion, like any other opinion.

Cindy

Agreed. I'd expect on a discussion board that there will be back-and-forth dialogue. Voicing an objection or an agreement to a remark is all part of the dynamic.

[FanDianaFancy]

That  gown  was  gorgeous.  Modern. Trendy.

BUT I see how  some can say  it  was  more  Hollywood than BRF=Princess.
The dress part was thigh  high.   Put  emphasis on  thigh  high, LOL.  Ankle strap  heels.
  Criss cross  at  bust area.


Yeah, I  get why, how  you would  say  that.

[DaisyMeRollin]

^^ I am starting to think that to some, any criticism of Kate is unacceptable. 

I don't think there has ever been a suggestion that any criticism is unacceptable.  But certainly if a poster thinks a criticism is harsh, that's simply their opinion, like any other opinion.

Cindy

Eh.....That's debatable. There are some that shirk taking responsibility for their words and refuse citation of information, when questioned on their lapse in reciprocal courtesy/rationale of proper argumentation in debates (which the rules seem to go out the window pretty damn often), they turn around and accuse others of "trolling" or start throwing out strawmen based on generalizations. Last time I checked, that's not a means of persuasive argumentation or effective argumentation.

Apparently, if you disagree with a certain topic, you're automatically one of those people (!), which deteriorates the discussion further. So, is "keeping it vague" conducive in instances where people claim to have conclusive evidence, or not? It can be perceived as a convenient cop-out, but that depends on where you stand.

Anyway, Kate always looks nice in blue.  :thumbsup:  That might be my color-bias speaking though.

EDIT: The biggest compromise I have to make on here is ZERO citation or citation of sources that would not fly based on MLA standards. But hey! Just a pet peeve of mine that stems from my career-field.

[TLLK]

 I agree and it covers the pro-con side of the discussions.^^^

[Macrobug]

Was looking at the winning photos.  The lions are lovely but I can't get the photo of the fox cub out of my head.  What a heartbreaking photo.  Maybe I am anthropomorphizing but I can see the pleading and desperation in the little guy's eyes.   :(