Prince William To Take To the Skies Again - Part 2

[Curryong]

I think the Queen is very fond of her cousins the Duke and Duchess of Kent and Princess Alexandra and the Gloucesters, and no doubt has a general chat to them about various things when she sees them (which isn't very often.)

As for considering them senior royals I'm not sure the Queen thinks in those terms. She realises that she is coming to the end of a very long life and reign. She, and her cousins, are elderly. The way forward is with Charles and then with William, and his brother. I'm sure there are some things that Charles wishes to do in his reign that she would not agree with. However, above everything, the Queen is a pragmatist. She is resigned to the fact that changes will be made after she's gone and there's nothing she can do. I'm sure that these have been discussed among the family and more formally at the Way Ahead Group.

[PrincessOfPeace]

Using proximity to the throne as a barometer, all of the Queen's grandchildren are senior royals because they come ahead of people such as Princess Anne so one's place in the line of succession can't be the factor.
Using the balcony appearance would mean Harry is also a senior royal but we know he wants to be a soldier until he retires at 55 so the balcony can't be the factor.
The Order of Precedence does give us some insight into who is a senior royal because precedence is different from succession. The Queen's children take precedence over her grandchildren for example.
But the ultimate determining factor is the Queen herself. She decides who the working the royals are as she controls the purse strings.
The money for official engagements doesn't increase as younger royals are added to the line-up. Either the Queen must force her children and cousins into retirement or the grandchildren must wait for their turn.
Charles's private secretary is on the record saying there isn't any extra money should the balance of work shift with William, Kate or Harry so until the Queen passes or some senior royals retire I don't see much change in the immediate future.

[Lady Adams]

Charles's private secretary is on the record saying there isn't any extra money should the balance of work shift with William, Kate or Harry so until the Queen passes or some senior royals retire I don't see much change in the immediate future.

So instead, they'll pass the extra cost of Will and Kate's security at Amner onto the taxpayer, who will never actually know the amount.  :orchid:

[cinrit]

^^ I don't get your point, Lady Adams.  Why would the cost of security at Anmer be additional to the cost of security at Kensington Palace?  If the Cambridges are at KP, their security  will be there.  If they are at Anmer Hall, that's where their security will also be.  It isn't as though they have two sets of security; one for KP and one for Anmer.

Cindy

[Lady Adams]

^KP is already secure, and has a system in place (that's part of the reason why the Israeli embassy is nearby- it's easier to secure a whole area). When Will and Kate are not at KP, the security costs are still the same (minus, of course, their RPOs who travel with them).

Amner doesn't have a system the way KP does. Just like when Will and Kate visit her parents, the security costs are extra when they're at Amner.

A different way to think about it is to look at President Obama. When the First Family travels to Camp David, there aren't really extra security costs for the taxpayers. But when they go back to their Chicago house (which they've only done a handful of times) or when they holiday in Haiwaii (each Christmas), the security costs are extra. The White House and Camp David security costs do not lower when POTUS is not in residence-- they have to stay on high alert, just like KP.

Does that explain it a bit more, @cinrit?

[cinrit]

^^ Thanks, but no, it doesn't.  I haven't read anywhere that there will be extra security when the Cambridges are at Anmer Hall.  I'd be interested in anything that you've seen, though.

Cindy

[Lady Adams]

^^ Hi @cinrit-- since they haven't started living at Amner, I don't know if I've seen an article discussing the extra costs there yet-- but we can look at the fact William needed 15 extra local police officers when he moved off-base in Wales, for an estimated  £1.4 million/ year just for those officers (here) and the security measures taken at Bucklebury after the birth of Prince George (here) with estimates at $17,000 USD/ per day for the extra security. Those examples help us deduce, logically, that extra costs of local protection officers will also happen at Amner.

Since Sandringham is an open estate, and isn't like the gated Kensington Palace, there will need to be extra security costs-- that's simply a fact. Add in the renovation to include the panic rooms added to Amner, plus the living quarters for the security team-- which will be paid for by taxpayers-- and that's a hefty bill.

Now, I want to be clear: Will, Kate, George and Baby#2 need this security.  There are crazies in the world, and I think everyone on RIF would agree that we want to see that the Cambridge family be protected from any sort of harm. However, those feelings of empathy and protection does not change the fact that security is expensive, especially when deviating from a system already in place.

[cinrit]

^^ Again, thanks.  But I'll wait and see how much extra security they actually get before I form an opinion.  The Telegraph article is based on a report by The Sunday Times, with much "it is claimed" and "it is expected" and "it is estimated" beginning each report.

Cindy

[Lady Adams]

^ That's okay, @cinrit, I expected as much.  :hug:

[cinrit]

^^ I know you did. :wink:

Cindy

[Lady Adams]

^^ @cinrit  :hug:  :hug:  :hug:

[sandy]

Using proximity to the throne as a barometer, all of the Queen's grandchildren are senior royals because they come ahead of people such as Princess Anne so one's place in the line of succession can't be the factor.
Using the balcony appearance would mean Harry is also a senior royal but we know he wants to be a soldier until he retires at 55 so the balcony can't be the factor.
The Order of Precedence does give us some insight into who is a senior royal because precedence is different from succession. The Queen's children take precedence over her grandchildren for example.
But the ultimate determining factor is the Queen herself. She decides who the working the royals are as she controls the purse strings.
The money for official engagements doesn't increase as younger royals are added to the line-up. Either the Queen must force her children and cousins into retirement or the grandchildren must wait for their turn.
Charles's private secretary is on the record saying there isn't any extra money should the balance of work shift with William, Kate or Harry so until the Queen passes or some senior royals retire I don't see much change in the immediate future.

Not necessarily. Anne will never be monarch and Edward and Andrew no chance. OTOH Charles, William and George are directly in line to be monarch.

The Queen may "decide" but I think she's just catering to her grandson who seems bent on postponing or avoiding full time royal duties. Whether she likes this or not is subject to speculation.

[HistoryGirl]

Using proximity to the throne as a barometer, all of the Queen's grandchildren are senior royals because they come ahead of people such as Princess Anne so one's place in the line of succession can't be the factor.
Using the balcony appearance would mean Harry is also a senior royal but we know he wants to be a soldier until he retires at 55 so the balcony can't be the factor.
The Order of Precedence does give us some insight into who is a senior royal because precedence is different from succession. The Queen's children take precedence over her grandchildren for example.
But the ultimate determining factor is the Queen herself. She decides who the working the royals are as she controls the purse strings.
The money for official engagements doesn't increase as younger royals are added to the line-up. Either the Queen must force her children and cousins into retirement or the grandchildren must wait for their turn.
Charles's private secretary is on the record saying there isn't any extra money should the balance of work shift with William, Kate or Harry so until the Queen passes or some senior royals retire I don't see much change in the immediate future.

I believe this analysis to be correct. I also personally believe it to be ridiculous.

[sandy]

I thought Harry retired from front line duty and has a desk job. It is subject to speculation if he continues in the military until he's 55.

I do think it absurd that William a future King "must" wait for his granny to give him the OK. I don't think it is the case. I think he is just being stubborn and digging his heels in and the non-confrontational Queen lets him do as he pleases.  I doubt if William goes to the Queen and asks for more royal duties (I doubt this would ever happen) she would say no Sorry Wills I'm not letting you. She is all about duty and I doubt she'd ever forbid him to work. It's  just another in the long line of excuses for him IMO.

[PrincessOfPeace]

Its just simple economics. If Charles has a a budget of say £ 8 million a year and out of this he must fund both the private and public lives of himself, Camilla, William, Harry and Kate it just stands to reason that if the balance of work changes with his sons then Charles will have to make cuts somewhere in order to free up funds for the children.

Charles personal private secretary has stated this isn't an option for Charles to fund 5 full-time royals so its not as much a matter of anyone needing the OK, its a matter of money.

[TLLK]

^^^Well sandy that is the way that the  of royal houses work so it doesn't surprise me that William, Harry, etc..have to receive approval from the monarch/government for their careers. The monarch/consort set the pace followed by an adult heir/consort or other adult royals.

The children and grandchildren of HM and the DoE are on record for offering to take on some of their grandparents' tasks and quite often the answer has been no.

[cinrit]

I do think it absurd that William a future King "must" wait for his granny to give him the OK. I don't think it is the case. I think he is just being stubborn and digging his heels in and the non-confrontational Queen lets him do as he pleases.  I doubt if William goes to the Queen and asks for more royal duties (I doubt this would ever happen) she would say no Sorry Wills I'm not letting you. She is all about duty and I doubt she'd ever forbid him to work. It's  just another in the long line of excuses for him IMO. 

According to William, that's exactly what happened.  He did go to the Queen and suggest she slow down and let others take over for her.  Her answer was "no".  And why is it absurd for a future King to wait for a current Queen to give him the okay?

Cindy

[TLLK]

^^^You make a very good point about the funds that are needed for the PoW to keep his spouse, sons and daughter-in-law working. Not all of the costs are covered by the Sovereign's Grant.

[TLLK]

I do think it absurd that William a future King "must" wait for his granny to give him the OK. I don't think it is the case. I think he is just being stubborn and digging his heels in and the non-confrontational Queen lets him do as he pleases.  I doubt if William goes to the Queen and asks for more royal duties (I doubt this would ever happen) she would say no Sorry Wills I'm not letting you. She is all about duty and I doubt she'd ever forbid him to work. It's  just another in the long line of excuses for him IMO. 

According to William, that's exactly what happened.  He did go to the Queen and suggest she slow down and let others take over for her.  Her answer was "no".  And why is it absurd for a future King to wait for a current Queen to give him the okay?

Cindy

IMHO the first and second time the grandchildren would have made this request would have been received politely. After that I can imagine the DoE displaying his extensive vocabulary! (He is fluent in German and French too so it could be zehr/tres  :o

[SophieChloe]

I do think it absurd that William a future King "must" wait for his granny to give him the OK. I don't think it is the case. I think he is just being stubborn and digging his heels in and the non-confrontational Queen lets him do as he pleases.  I doubt if William goes to the Queen and asks for more royal duties (I doubt this would ever happen) she would say no Sorry Wills I'm not letting you. She is all about duty and I doubt she'd ever forbid him to work. It's  just another in the long line of excuses for him IMO. 

According to William, that's exactly what happened.  He did go to the Queen and suggest she slow down and let others take over for her.  Her answer was "no".  And why is it absurd for a future King to wait for a current Queen to give him the okay?

Cindy

Cause William said it....it makes it gospel?   He couldn't even get his stories straight during the engagement interview.  Salt...pinch...of. 

[SophieChloe]

How come Charles has millions to spend on doing up KP and AH?  When he cannot afford to send his lazy son and his beyond lazy wife on royal duties? 

I thought that was *the* point of them?  You know, to do good?

[TLLK]

I think the Queen is very fond of her cousins the Duke and Duchess of Kent and Princess Alexandra and the Gloucesters, and no doubt has a general chat to them about various things when she sees them (which isn't very often.)

As for considering them senior royals I'm not sure the Queen thinks in those terms. She realises that she is coming to the end of a very long life and reign. She, and her cousins, are elderly. The way forward is with Charles and then with William, and his brother. I'm sure there are some things that Charles wishes to do in his reign that she would not agree with. However, above everything, the Queen is a pragmatist. She is resigned to the fact that changes will be made after she's gone and there's nothing she can do. I'm sure that these have been discussed among the family and more formally at the Way Ahead Group.

:goodpost:

[sandy]

I do think it absurd that William a future King "must" wait for his granny to give him the OK. I don't think it is the case. I think he is just being stubborn and digging his heels in and the non-confrontational Queen lets him do as he pleases.  I doubt if William goes to the Queen and asks for more royal duties (I doubt this would ever happen) she would say no Sorry Wills I'm not letting you. She is all about duty and I doubt she'd ever forbid him to work. It's  just another in the long line of excuses for him IMO. 

According to William, that's exactly what happened.  He did go to the Queen and suggest she slow down and let others take over for her.  Her answer was "no".  And why is it absurd for a future King to wait for a current Queen to give him the okay?

Cindy

Cause William said it....it makes it gospel?   He couldn't even get his stories straight during the engagement interview.  Salt...pinch...of. 

I agree. This seems more hearsay or William trying to say his grandmother was doing well for her age. I can't imagine the Queen would refuse to let Will work more. I think she expected him to step up to full time when she had KP refurbished.
Double post auto-merged: September 25, 2014, 02:17:26 PM

^^^Well sandy that is the way that the  of royal houses work so it doesn't surprise me that William, Harry, etc..have to receive approval from the monarch/government for their careers. The monarch/consort set the pace followed by an adult heir/consort or other adult royals.

The children and grandchildren of HM and the DoE are on record for offering to take on some of their grandparents' tasks and quite often the answer has been no.

On record? where? There was nothing from the Palace or anything official. It is hearsay or based on random comments. I truly doubt the Queen would refuse Will's request to work more. He does pitifully little already so stepping up would  not be exactly hurtful to her. I think t his is another excuse for the laziness and the Queen is blamed.
Double post auto-merged: September 25, 2014, 02:19:02 PM

Its just simple economics. If Charles has a a budget of say £ 8 million a year and out of this he must fund both the private and public lives of himself, Camilla, William, Harry and Kate it just stands to reason that if the balance of work changes with his sons then Charles will have to make cuts somewhere in order to free up funds for the children.

Charles personal private secretary has stated this isn't an option for Charles to fund 5 full-time royals so its not as much a matter of anyone needing the OK, its a matter of money.

If $$$ can be shelled out for home refurbishments for Will and Kate and clothing for her and her upkeep it certainly would be possible to have $$$ to give them to work. What is the point of them anyway if they do nothing. Why not just give them one house and have them earn the other one. More excuses for the lazy ones.

[cinrit]

Cause William said it....it makes it gospel?   He couldn't even get his stories straight during the engagement interview.  Salt...pinch...of. 

I agree. This seems more hearsay or William trying to say his grandmother was doing well for her age. I can't imagine the Queen would refuse to let Will work more. I think she expected him to step up to full time when she had KP refurbished. 

William is on video saying it, so it's not hearsay.  And I don't see why I wouldn't believe it if he blatantly said it.

On record? where? There was nothing from the Palace or anything official. It is hearsay or based on random comments.

Sandy, I've posted the video here several times.  William said it in an interview (with Katie Couric, I believe), in the Queen's Diamond Jubilee, when she gave family members permission to speak to the media.

If $$$ can be shelled out for home refurbishments for Will and Kate and clothing for her and her upkeep it certainly would be possible to have $$$ to give them to work. What is the point of them anyway if they do nothing. Why not just give them one house and have them earn the other one. More excuses for the lazy ones.

Because that's the way budgets work ... there are different categories for different expenses.  You don't pay for home improvements out of the clothing category.  Otherwise, why bother with a budget?

Cindy

[sandy]

William never said that he went to her offering to work and he was turned down. The implication was that she was not slowing down. Belied by Charles taking on more of her duties. The Queen never issued an edict saying William "could not" step up to full time royal duties.

Queen Elizabeth II to hand over reigns to Prince Charles in historic 'job share' - Mirror Online

I think Will is just doing what he wants and the Queen is allowing it and that does not mean she likes it she is just non-confrontational.

William had to have this pilot job created just for him so he could satisfy his longing to fly copters. It's something he can't do permanently in any case. And he needs security around him. He's not like the average pilot and never will be.

I am very skeptical that the two can't work because of money issues. They do pathetically little anyway so if they did a few more hours the budget would not Suffer.

These two get all sorts of excuses.