The problem of Catherine Cambridge’s womb watchers

Started by Limabeany, July 31, 2014, 11:20:08 AM

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Rebound

Trudie, we can disagree about who has a more lasting legacy in the world, but that doesn't mean I am "wrong".  I think you underestimate the influence Eleanor R. had on the world, and has today. She was outspoken about the role women have in the world and in their families. You really should look up some of her still well-known quotes. One of my favorites that has often bolstered me:

"Noone can make you feel inferior without your consent."

TLLK

Quote from: HistoryGirl on August 01, 2014, 12:57:27 AM
So question: does the consort of an English royal have to be simply an accessory to the them or can they forge their own path as their own individual?
IMHO it would depend upon the individual's personality, the era they're living in and the mood of the nation. Middle Eastern consorts have had their "wings clipped" in recent years since the Arab Spring. Queen Rania stopped her international travel and focused on domestic needs. She stopped standing next to Abdullah on national day at the military review. Lalla Salma had to scale back on her high profile events due to the unrest in the region. The time to be seen as "western" had to end.

Queen Elizabeth during WWII in someways had to play a different role to the one she'd cultivated as DoY and pre-WWII. The glamorous figure who toured North America was modified to supporter in chief to the nation.  Post war as the Queen Mother she could be more relaxed and was well suited to the role of the nation's grandmother figure.

The DoE has been the longest serving consort and has been a mover and shaker in modernizing the BRF and the firm much like Prince Albert. He had the opportunity to serve during the post War era and see the kingdom change in many ways. The end of the Empire and the rise of the Commonwealth.  He's full of energy, ideas and opinions which sometimes cause his spouse and the government some angst. Our neighbor had the chance to meet him during the 1960's. They were both fluent in German so their conversation was in her words a bit risque but very enjoyable.  :wink:

I'm curious to see what role Camilla will choose for herself in the future as she is the next to be consort. I see her as relaxed and friendly which is how many people in the UK appear to find her if recent polls are to be believed. She'll likely keep her charities that she is most attached to ie: osteoporosis but will likely have to relinquish some to other members of the family. I believe that she'll cherish time with her grandchildren.

Curryong

With respect, Rebound, Queen Elizabeth (the Queen Mother) wasn't just 'important' in the UK. At the time King George came to the throne in 1936 he was the head of the British Empire, (now the Commonwealth) which consisted of over 450 million people.

During the war George and Elizabeth's resolve gave a great deal of encouragement to people of the Empire and there were many admiring articles in newspaper articles especially in the Dominions, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. After the war and in her widowhood Queen Elizabeth undertook many royal tours to Empire/ Commonwealth countries, assisting her daughter.

HistoryGirl

Quote from: TLLK on August 01, 2014, 01:27:38 AM
Quote from: HistoryGirl on August 01, 2014, 12:57:27 AM
So question: does the consort of an English royal have to be simply an accessory to the them or can they forge their own path as their own individual?
IMHO it would depend upon the individual's personality, the era they're living in and the mood of the nation. Queen Elizabeth during WWII in someways had to play a different role to the one she'd cultivated as DoY and pre-WWII. The glamorous figure who toured North America was modified to supporter in chief to the nation.  Post war as the Queen Mother she could be more relaxed and was well suited to the role of the nation's grandmother figure.

The DoE has been the longest serving consort and has been a mover and shaker in modernizing the BRF and the firm much like Prince Albert. He had the opportunity to serve during the post War era and see the kingdom change in many ways. The end of the Empire and the rise of the Commonwealth.  He's full of energy, ideas and opinions which sometimes cause his spouse and the government some angst. Our neighbor had the chance to meet him during the 1960's. They were both fluent in German so their conversation was in her words a bit risque but very enjoyable.  :wink:

I'm curious to see what role Camilla will choose for herself in the future as she is the next to be consort. I see her as relaxed and friendly which is how many people in the UK appear to find her if recent polls are to be believed. She'll likely keep her charities that she is most attached to ie: osteoporosis but will likely have to relinquish some to other members of the family. I believe that she'll cherish time with her grandchildren.

True. So pertaining to this thread, some have taken offense to Kate's "womb" being up for discussion, does that speak to her own role as someone who is "William's wife" instead of "Catherine, who happens to be Williams wife"?

Double post auto-merged: August 01, 2014, 01:36:11 AM


Quote from: TLLK on August 01, 2014, 01:27:38 AM
Quote from: HistoryGirl on August 01, 2014, 12:57:27 AM
So question: does the consort of an English royal have to be simply an accessory to the them or can they forge their own path as their own individual?
IMHO it would depend upon the individual's personality, the era they're living in and the mood of the nation. Queen Elizabeth during WWII in someways had to play a different role to the one she'd cultivated as DoY and pre-WWII. The glamorous figure who toured North America was modified to supporter in chief to the nation.  Post war as the Queen Mother she could be more relaxed and was well suited to the role of the nation's grandmother figure.

The DoE has been the longest serving consort and has been a mover and shaker in modernizing the BRF and the firm much like Prince Albert. He had the opportunity to serve during the post War era and see the kingdom change in many ways. The end of the Empire and the rise of the Commonwealth.  He's full of energy, ideas and opinions which sometimes cause his spouse and the government some angst. Our neighbor had the chance to meet him during the 1960's. They were both fluent in German so their conversation was in her words a bit risque but very enjoyable.  :wink:

I'm curious to see what role Camilla will choose for herself in the future as she is the next to be consort. I see her as relaxed and friendly which is how many people in the UK appear to find her if recent polls are to be believed. She'll likely keep her charities that she is most attached to ie: osteoporosis but will likely have to relinquish some to other members of the family. I believe that she'll cherish time with her grandchildren.

True. So pertaining to this thread, some have taken offense to Kate's "womb" being up for discussion, does that speak to her own role as someone who is "William's wife" instead of "Catherine, who happens to be Williams wife"?

Rebound

I guess we will disagree on who has had a lasting impression on the world, and that's OK with me. Eleanor R., though, was a goddess, a goddess to women in the 60's, I tell you!   :hug:

TLLK

^^^From reading the comments regarding Kate's potential pregnancies most of our posters have stated what I'd expect from western societies and that the subject is a private one between mother, father and physician. IMO she is Catherine married to William. Like all hereditary monarchies there has to be a legitimate heir so couples know this is part of the job, but not the only one.

Now if this was CP Masako the Imperial Household Agency would consider her to be the wife of the Crown Prince and she's failed in her duty by only producing one female child.  (IHA overlooking that there hasn't been a male born in the Imperial family since the 1960's. Many of the Imperial family members are involved in science and would understand sexual reproduction, however their minders don't seem to get that the male is responsible for the child's gender.) :no:

Trudie

Quote from: Rebound on August 01, 2014, 01:17:04 AM
Trudie, we can disagree about who has a more lasting legacy in the world, but that doesn't mean I am "wrong".  I think you underestimate the influence Eleanor R. had on the world, and has today. She was outspoken about the role women have in the world and in their families. You really should look up some of her still well-known quotes. One of my favorites that has often bolstered me:

"Noone can make you feel inferior without your consent."

I beg to defer with you I don't underestimate the importance of Eleanor Roosevelt I admired her very much and have been to her grave at Hyde Park many times. The topic has to do with a woman of the BRF which Kate is apart of and the subject of. The Queen Mothers role is very much on topic since she was a woman of substance like Eleanor Roosevelt and was not merely the wife of a King and mother of a Queen. All of the previous Queens either regnant or consort worked and were not merely noticed  to see if they had a baby bump even Williams mother was not subjected to the bump watching that Kate is merely because they were noticed for their work ethic unlike Kate who has not done much so therefore all people have and the media can do is look for her to get pregnant.



HistoryGirl

But let's say that she picked one cause to actively work (I mean making regular visits and actually work at it, not just as a photo op) would that not be what is more focused on until she truly was pregnant?

Curryong

TLK, I may be totally wrong but wasn't Hisahito, the son of the Crown Prince of Japan's younger brother, born in September 2006. His birth ended the absolute primogeniture debate, and he will eventually succeed instead of Princess Aiko as things stand today.

Lady Adams

Quote from: HistoryGirl on August 01, 2014, 01:58:07 AM
But let's say that she picked one cause to actively work (I mean making regular visits and actually work at it, not just as a photo op) would that not be what is more focused on until she truly was pregnant?
As one would imagine, I'd say yes- the media would focus on the regular work  :shrug: And then, if it really was regular, they'd get over it.  Look at Princess Eugenie-- she goes to work every day in NY was photographed frequently in the beginning, but now is rarely pictured.
"To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, and be nothing." --Elbert Hubbard, American writer

Eri

Quote from: Rebound on July 31, 2014, 08:11:40 PM
I doubt William sees Kate as a "trophy wife". I also think that "trophy" belongs to second wives who are much younger than their wealthy husbands.

I also have problems with saying someone is "just a (trophy) wife". I have been a stay-at-home mom as well as taking a full-time job when the kids went to Kindergarten. I'd wager staying home with little ones is far more work than most jobs. It's much harder than having others watch your kids while you work.  When I saw how much help working moms have, I was jealous! Anyway, "just a wife" or "just a mother" isn't easy, no matter how many hours you put in at a job outside the home.

It sounds as if there is no value to someone who is "just" a wife or mother. Beyond a doubt, there is great value there, not just for the family, but for society as well.
Kate has a full time nanny , cook and someone who takes care of the home because she is expected to WORK as a ROYAL !!! Otherwise she would do it on her own and not expected to do other things ... another problem with Kate is that TAX PAYERS PAY for her life style so yeah she has to answer to them !!!

georgiana996

Quote from: Rebound on August 01, 2014, 12:48:08 AM
Definition of trophy wife from the Oxford dictionaries: 
A young, attractive wife regarded as a status symbol for an older man.

Kate is not younger than William, not attractive according to some posters, not a status symbol and Will is not an older man. Therefore, she is not a trophy wife. William married her for love, not as a status symbol.

She is not "just" a wife. That implies it isn't worthy of respect, just as it would be if someone said a woman is "just" a secretary, "just" a shopgirl, or "just" works at McDonalds. It's elitist to say all of those, and borders on insulting.
_______
Queen Elizabeth might have been important to the UK, but she is nowhere near as well-known as Eleanor Roosevelt, who was outspoken in politics and even had a newspaper column. After Franklin's death, she served in the UN and helped write the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Before she married, she worked in settlement houses. She was controversial and very supportive of other women.  I'm older, and I remember her with great respect.


She is just a wife she isnt a career woman she isnt doing royal work . I am not interested in giving her a medal for existing on earth , if kate was a private citizen or a celebrity's wife,  you can bet I would not expect her to do anything but however she is a royal by marriage , she is living on the tp money , tp funded refurbishments that costed millions of £ s , she is expected to do her job .
Like I said if you find the statement rude or offensive its really your own decision because I dont feel stating what she is , is an insult .
I have been very supportive of kate and am still in her corner rooting for her , but unless she does the job that gives her the perks she has , I will point it out .
Surround yourself with people who are going to lift you higher.

cinrit

But she does do Royal work.  She just doesn't do what some deem to be enough, or as often, or as public (where she can be seen to be working). 

And taxpayers do not pay for her (or William's) lifestyle.

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

Rebound

I guess every human being is "just a....."   In fact, everything is "just a..."    Just a dog, just a tree, just a patient, just a student, just a soldier. The word "just", to me, implies "merely" or not valued. I think everything, especially human beings, has intrinsic value. No one gets a medal for just existing on earth, but they do have value and deserve respect, even if they are wives, students, or critics.

After all, we all could do more and be better.

Limabeany

Quote from: cinrit on August 01, 2014, 12:14:09 PM
But she does do Royal work.  She just doesn't do what some deem to be enough, or as often, or as public (where she can be seen to be working). 

Cindy
She doesn't do what any working woman or man would deem enough, especially given the fact that she is in her 30s and not a teen or recent Uni graduate.
"You don't have to be pretty. You don't owe prettiness to anyone. Not to your boyfriend/spouse/partner, not to your co-workers, especially not to random men on the street. You don't owe it to your mother, you don't owe it to your children, you don't owe it to civilization in general. Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked 'female'." Diana Vreeland.

HistoryGirl

I gotta say I still don't get the insult. When someone asks me what I am, I oftentimes say "I'm just a student right now" and I don't think I'm offending myself by saying that, but that's just all I am at the moment; won't remain that way for long, but that's what it is.

Limabeany

I don't either, I think it is what comes after that makes it an insult... But, sometimes, it is up to us to change what comes after the "just a", and it is within our power to change instead of expecting others to find synonims we are comfortable with...
"You don't have to be pretty. You don't owe prettiness to anyone. Not to your boyfriend/spouse/partner, not to your co-workers, especially not to random men on the street. You don't owe it to your mother, you don't owe it to your children, you don't owe it to civilization in general. Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked 'female'." Diana Vreeland.

HistoryGirl

Yeah, I agree with Georgiana; if someone sees an insult it's more how they themselves view the profession/work. 

Canuck

Quote from: Limabeany on August 01, 2014, 01:50:24 PM
Quote from: cinrit on August 01, 2014, 12:14:09 PM
But she does do Royal work.  She just doesn't do what some deem to be enough, or as often, or as public (where she can be seen to be working). 

Cindy
She doesn't do what any working woman or man would deem enough, especially given the fact that she is in her 30s and not a teen or recent Uni graduate.

Well I'm a working woman, and I think she's doing enough.  For right now, anyway.  I expect she will ramp up Royal duties as older family members significantly decrease theirs/as her child(ren) get older. 

Rebound

 Well, goodness, turn around what I was saying! I value the profession/work, of course I do, history girl. I can't make it any plainer than to say when you call yourself "just a" you devalue what you are doing. I would never call you "just a student" because being a student has value in itself.

That's it--can't make it any plainer! 

:hug:

TLLK

Quote from: Curryong on August 01, 2014, 02:28:17 AM
TLK, I may be totally wrong but wasn't Hisahito, the son of the Crown Prince of Japan's younger brother, born in September 2006. His birth ended the absolute primogeniture debate, and he will eventually succeed instead of Princess Aiko as things stand today.
No you are not wrong. I should have clarified that prior to Hishato's birth there had not been a male born in the IF since the 1960's. Which would have been before technology could select a child's gender. IMHO that did play a role in Hishato's conception.

georgiana996

#71
 :hug: I guess I see it differently :) I dont really think being a wife will reduce the weekly "she is pregnant again!.." articles , but working or trying to accomplish something will divert attention towards her as a person and not just as Williams wife :D

Rebound  just a wife and just a soldier are two such different things , the meaning completely changes . We all are a part of a family and we are given ascribed roles / status that cannot be bought or changed , we are known in the world most of the time by our achieved status /role /profession .

Quote from: HistoryGirl on August 01, 2014, 02:01:17 PM
I gotta say I still don't get the insult. When someone asks me what I am, I oftentimes say "I'm just a student right now" and I don't think I'm offending myself by saying that, but that's just all I am at the moment; won't remain that way for long, but that's what it is.

Exactly  :nod: . I'm just a student too but I wont compare studying , taking exams , (theory and practical ) to being a wife . The Two are very different things , one is an education , a pathway to a  career the other well ....I wouldn't put the two beside each other and compare.
Surround yourself with people who are going to lift you higher.

cinrit

Quote from: Rebound on August 01, 2014, 03:22:09 PM
Well, goodness, turn around what I was saying! I value the profession/work, of course I do, history girl. I can't make it any plainer than to say when you call yourself "just a" you devalue what you are doing. I would never call you "just a student" because being a student has value in itself.

That's it--can't make it any plainer! 

:hug: 

I get what you mean, Rebound.  In this sense, the word "just" seems to be used as a synonym for "only", indicating that there should be more.

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

Eri

Quote from: cinrit on August 01, 2014, 12:14:09 PM
But she does do Royal work.  She just doesn't do what some deem to be enough, or as often, or as public (where she can be seen to be working). 

And taxpayers do not pay for her (or William's) lifestyle.

Cindy
Where does the money comes from they are a 32 years old unemployed couple !!! Two kitchens Kate couldn't pay for "her" kitchens so please ...

TLLK

William has money that he inherited from his mother's estate in addition to what he may have saved during his years with SAR. I don't know what money, furniture etc... Kate brought into the relationship but she may have had some savings as well. It's possible that she did receive some inheritance over the years from her late grandparents.

I understand that the couple were given access to some of the furniture owned by the BRF that is kept in storage, so that could have been used to outfit their home.