Titles of Diana

Started by Lady Adams, August 21, 2014, 09:54:31 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Lady Adams

For all to discuss The Honourable Diana Frances Spencer/Lady Diana Spencer/HRH Diana, The Princess of Wales/HRH The Duchess of Rothesay/HRH Countess of Chester/ Diana, Princess of Wales

:hug: :hug: :hug:
"To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, and be nothing." --Elbert Hubbard, American writer

cinrit

LA, the third title should include "The" in front of Princess of Wales, as she was still married to Charles at the time.

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

FanDianaFancy

#2
Lady Adams,    :goodpost:



Easier way  to remember them and some are not so common , BUT they  were  all of the titles that Camilla  has now, well   HRH, Diana, Princess of Wales  had until LE DIVORCE.

CPB  is , HRH, Camilla, Princess of Wales...Cindycinrit said The goes before. Fine.


Camila has   and Diana  had, about  a dozen titles. Goggle the titles of Camilla.

I  think , really  when LDS  died and after the  divorce, she  was really  , Lady Diana  Spencer  , to be technical about it.

Common titles  for PD  after the divorce and  after death  was still Princess Diana, which  ,I think is not how  it  was formally styled before the divorce. Agreed w/ Cindycinrit about  The etc. 

Ms. Sarah  Ferguson  , to be technical, I  think is  now  Ms. Sarah Ferguson. :loco:

Aftger divorce, she  surely  cannot be HRH, Sarah  , Duchess  of York  etc. etc.and the half  dozen or titles she had before divorce.
If  PAndrew  marries tomorrow, the new wife will be all.
Of course , we know he  won't be getting married  because PPhillip  is still  alive.
Of course , there won't be a new wife because the new wife one day  will be the old wife. :teehee:

I think Sarah  will be HRH, Sarah ,Duchess  of York, etc. etc. when PPhillip dies. Yeah, then she and HRH, PAndrew  can  remarry and  life their old  life happily ever after.  :love6:

wannable

Titles and styles

1 July 1961 – 9 June 1975: The Honourable Diana Frances Spencer
9 June 1975 – 29 July 1981: Lady Diana Frances Spencer
29 July 1981 – 28 August 1996: Her Royal Highness The Princess of Wales
in Scotland: 29 July 1981 – 28 August 1996: Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Rothesay
28 August 1996 – 31 August 1997: Diana, Princess of Wales

While married
Diana's title and style in full: Her Royal Highness The Princess of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall, Duchess of Rothesay, Countess of Chester.

Trudie

In the other thread you are all nitpicking. Diana was technically a royal when she died as she was the Mother of the heir to the thrones children and the heirs wife as far as the Church of England went. For those of you who refer to Charles her widower when it is convenient, how Diana did lack the HRH and THE in her title but was titled Diana Princess of Wales that is a title not a surname in case some of you forget the Surname of the Royal family is Windsor so if Diana was no longer a family member as a divorced member her name and Style would have been Lady Diana Windsor or Lady Diana Mountbatten Windsor to be precise.



Lady Adams

Quote from: cinrit on August 21, 2014, 10:29:59 PM
LA, the third title should include "The" in front of Princess of Wales, as she was still married to Charles at the time.

Cindy
Thanks, Cindy. I've modified my original post to have the correct title.  :computer:
"To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, and be nothing." --Elbert Hubbard, American writer

FanDianaFancy

#6
Thanks wannabe     :goodpost:        and Trudie.    :goodpost:

Interesting though  someone can be a widower  when divorced?  How  does that work?  :hmm:

Oh yes,  PC and C  fans and media  vs. PD  fans and media....different.

Anyoen else,  after divorce  and if there is death of  of the ex-spouses, there are no widows and widowers.  . 

wannable

Welcome.

The following announcement has been issued by the press secretary to the Queen:
STATUS AND ROLE OF THE PRINCESS OF WALES
The Princess of Wales, as the mother of Prince William, will be regarded by The Queen and The Prince of Wales as being a member of the Royal Family.
It has been agreed that her style and title will be Diana,
Princess of Wales.  She may retain any orders, insignia and other
titles, consistent with her being known as Diana, Princess of Wales.
As she will be regarded as a member of the Royal Family, The
Princess will from time to time receive invitations to State and
national public occasions, as for any other member of the Royal
Family, at the invitation of The Sovereign or the Government.  On
these occasions The Princess will be accorded the precedence she
enjoys at present.
Being regarded as a member of the Royal Family, The Princess
will continue to live at Kensington Palace with The Queen's
agreement.  Kensington Palace will in this way continue to provide a
central and secure home for The Princess and the children.
The Princess's public role will essentially be for her to
decide.  However, as for any other member of the Royal Family, any
representational duty, whether Royal or national, at home or abroad,
will only be undertaken at the request of The Sovereign, acting where
necessary on the advice of Ministers.  As for any other member of the
Royal Family, any visits by The Princess overseas (other than private
holidays) will be undertaken in consultation with the Foreign and
Commonwealth Office and with the permission of The Sovereign.
The Princess has asked The Queen if she may relinquish all her service appointments and The Queen has agreed.
The Princess will continue to have access to 32 (The Royal) Squadron and to the State Apartments at St. James's Palace for entertaining on the same basis as all other members of the Royal Family, namely with the permission of The Sovereign.
The Princess will maintain a private office in Kensington Palace, the size of which will depend on the nature and extent of the public role she undertakes.
As for any other member of the Royal Family, any activity of The Princess which involves the use of public funds will be undertaken only with the permission of The Sovereign acting where necessary on the advice of Ministers.
SOURCE Buckingham Palace

FanDianaFancy

#8
THANK YOU  wannabe!!!!     :goodpost:             I did NOT KNOW that.

I thought , after, she was to be technical...LDS.

The part there you put in BOLD...AS MOTHER OF.....

MOTHER TRUMPS  all.

sandy ,       :goodpost:                 from your other post, I did NOT KNOW  QEII  wanted  PD  at  Frogmore.
She should have been buried there  .  It is awful that PD was buried at Altrophe in a  money making shrine  for Althrope and 
if the burial place  is not kept  now....maybe it is  true. It seems likely.
Sorry amable, from your other post, no . PD  burial there at Althrope  WAS NOT befitting for her status, role and place AS MOTHER  TO PW AND PH.
Can I say Fatty Spencer  here one more time?!?!?!    The greed of the Fat      :mil5: Boy  is why PD is where she is and will be. Will be untill King William, if King William does  anything or not? Of course , it cost  King W and PH  some  big money to give to Pillsbury Dough Boy Spencer. 

PrincessOfPeace

Although regarded by the Queen and the Prince of Wales as a member of the BRF as the mother of Prince William, Diana, Princess of Wales was herself not royal after Aug 30, 1996 -

Buckingham Palace
The Queen has been pleased by Letters Patent under the Great Seal of the Realm dated 21st August 1996, to declare that a former wife (other than a widow until she shall remarry) of a son of a Sovereign of these Realms, of a son of a son of a Sovereign and of the eldest living son of the eldest son of The Prince of Wales shall not be entitled to hold and enjoy the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness.       



Trudie

Princess of Peace what part of this are you having a hard time grasping? Diana at her divorce was not entitled to the style, any longer of HRH however she was still considered a royal and was to enjoy the precedence at all state and national occasions to which she was invited to that she held during her marriage in addition to retaining her order, insignias and other titles consistent with Diana Princess of Wales. Diana was and continued to be a royal after her divorce by the virtue of being The Mother of Prince William The Future King. It was Her blood and DNA that ensured her royal status as Mother. If Camilla were to divorce Charles she would most likely hold her title Duchess of Cornwall without the HRH but she would cease to be a royal as she never bore any children to the blood royal.



FanDianaFancy

YES, PofP,    that was the sticking point then  during the divorce or  something major  she was to lose  was the  but  HRH.
Now, we see the word, a word    for  us, but  a  title piece, The , was also impt . Major.

Titles, they  are confusing for me. I thought she was less that   and really styled Diana, P ofW.  I  see losting  The  was  a  critical piece  of titling.

I  understand all the common terms  used by people and the media  for PD, CPB,Kate, all  of them are  not the actual correct titles.

My  only point to stress  is THAT SHE WAS MOTHER. MOTHER TRUMPS all.  MOTHER to  a  future K and PH  ,  excluded her from being casted  out  like  the garbage.

Per that statement, she had to be considered  part of the BRF  , but I take it as not all the time. Just when her kids  were concerned, then she was part of the BRF and with no HRH.

It  was  very interesting then and since  we  are  posting about now, really  was  was her name and role to be  being divorced. There had never been such a  thing.
Ohhhhh, maybe  500-600 yrs. ago with  King Herny the 8th, but that  does not count  because  PC  could not have  her declared an adultress,  or say the marriage was never pure and  legal  and the kids  were   that ugly word that starts with a b, LOL and send her to the tower to  get her head chopped off.  :lol:

cinrit

Being "regarded as a member of the Royal Family" (the exact wording), and actually being a Royal are not the same thing.

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

PrincessOfPeace

Diana was royal by marriage. She became HRH on the day of her wedding and after her divorce she was no longer HRH and thus not royal.


sandy

She was a royal through and through. She had royal children unlike Camilla. All the hair splitting and semantics do not change that Diana died a royal and if the Queen did not consider her that she would not have offered Frogmore as her burial place.

PrincessOfPeace

#15
The courtesies afforded Diana after her divorce were done for William's sake and for the sake of public opinion. The Queen is what is known as the 'font of honour' in Britain. It is an ancient term but what it means is she alone decides the matter of who is and who isn't royal. No one else but the sovereign has this prerogative.

Its part of her royal prerogative and she made her will and pleasure known that a former wife of a Prince of the Realm was no longer entitled to the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness. Rightly so because Diana was not royal before her marriage.

Had she wanted Diana to remain 'Royal' she could have made her an exemption to the 1996 Letters Patent but didn't.

TLLK

Like it or not you are correct PoP. The same thing happened with Sarah.

sandy

William said he would give back Diana's HRH--he said this to his mother.

Had she lived and when he became King he would have returned the title because he could.

Fergie was and is not the mother of a future monarch. Diana was. Big difference.

SophieChloe

I agree with Sandy.

However, I would like to ask the Question - What is a "Royal"  So I have created this thread :

What Is a "Royal" & What's the Point Of Them?

Please discuss   :happy17:  :love6:
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me

Trudie

If Diana was not considered a Royal at the time of her death then why was her body flown back from Paris in a royal standard and not the union jack ditto for her funeral?



TLLK

^^^I understood that was Charles' personal standard and that he made the decision to have it draped on her coffin. I don't believe that she could use the one she had during her tenure as PoW after the divorce.

Trudie

Doesn't matter whether it was Charles or Diana's standard it was still a royal standard and not a union jack and HM had to approve Diana's status to use it.



amabel

Quote from: PrincessOfPeace on August 22, 2014, 12:14:32 PM
The courtesies afforded Diana after her divorce were done for William's sake and for the sake of public opinion. The Queen is what is known as the 'font of honour' in Britain. It is an ancient term but what it means is she alone decides the matter of who is and who isn't royal. No one else but the sovereign has this prerogative.

Its part of her royal prerogative and she made her will and pleasure known that a former wife of a Prince of the Realm was no longer entitled to the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness. Rightly so because Diana was not royal before her marriage.

Had she wanted Diana to remain 'Royal' she could have made her an exemption to the 1996 Letters Patent but didn't.
Exactly.  She knew that there had been some disputing about removing the HRH, but she did that because (a) It was technically correct because Di was now divorced and (b) because she was too annoyed iwht Diana to be more generous.  But she allowed Di to be "considered Royal" in a few aspects, because she knew that some people felt that it had been ungenerous to remove her HRH and that when she died, a lot of the population were very grieved and wanted Di to be treated as  a Royal in death. Left to herself I think she would have let DI be buried privately with no public service and left to the Spencer family, and she and the RF would have had no invovlemtn. But the public mood was such that she had to reconsider...

sandy

The Queen would have been wildly unpopular if she had done that. It was not just public opinion it was common decency for the Queen not to treat her grandsons' mother with total contempt. The Queen does not operate in a vacuum. The royals will always be tied  to and involved with  Diana since Diana will appear in genealogy of future monarchs and is a future monarch's mother.

Curryong

Whatever the rights and wrongs of Charles's behaviour during the marriage I think he was absolutely correct to argue, after Diana's death, that she should be treated as a royal.

I believe it was the Queen's view that Diana should have a private funeral and that the Spencer family should make the arrangements. It was to Charles's credit that he argued against this and that, in the end, his view prevailed. He went to Paris to collect her body on a Queen's Flight plane with Diana's sisters. (I believe it would have been kind, by the way, to have allowed Frances Shand Kydd to have come to, but that's another issue.) He also arranged that she lay in a royal chapel before her funeral.

It was due to Charles really, that Diana wasn't buried quietly without giving the public a chance to mourn.