Queen Was 'Right' to Stay at Balmoral with Princes after Princess Diana's Death

Started by cinrit, September 28, 2014, 12:08:40 PM

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cate1949

seriously there are certain normal forms that people employ especially in the case of death and other changes.  At most services there is a time to pray for the dead so that would have been appropriate and natural - but maybe they were afraid of upsetting the boys.


TLLK

I've wondered if there was so much chaos and turmoil that morning that it simply slipped their minds to request that the reverend include her in the prayers that day.

amabel

Iam not sure about that. I think that the RF were cool on the idea of remembering or praying for Di, and the clergyman knew this and thought ti was Best to stick too the sermon and service he Had originally prepared, because he was not sure how to proceed

sandy

Quote from: TLLK on October 30, 2014, 05:52:46 AM
I've wondered if there was so much chaos and turmoil that morning that it simply slipped their minds to request that the reverend include her in the prayers that day.

Slipped their minds? I doubt it. How could the death of William's and Harry's mother and its implications have slipped their mind? Seriously, I never heard of such cold heartedness by taking the boys to Church with not one prayer to be spared for their mother . Because they have the HRH does not make their actions always virtuous. 

Double post auto-merged: October 30, 2014, 02:35:35 PM


Quote from: amabel on October 30, 2014, 06:36:05 AM
Iam not sure about that. I think that the RF were cool on the idea of remembering or praying for Di, and the clergyman knew this and thought ti was Best to stick too the sermon and service he Had originally prepared, because he was not sure how to proceed

The royals should have seen to it that he did not think it "offensive" to offer a prayer for the deceased mother of William and Harry. Even a deceased royal servant would not be treated so disrespectfully.

If the clergyman was 'afraid' to have prayers for a dead person who gave birth to WIll and Harry he has no heart either.

sandy

Quote from: cate1949 on October 30, 2014, 01:25:20 AM
seriously there are certain normal forms that people employ especially in the case of death and other changes.  At most services there is a time to pray for the dead so that would have been appropriate and natural - but maybe they were afraid of upsetting the boys.



Praying for their mother would "upset" the boys?! Why?  Very poor excuse if t his were the case. Why would not her sons want prayers for her.  There is always a "place" for prayers.

Harry was upset because it caused him confusion so he asked Charles if he were sure "Mummy was dead."


amabel

Quote from: snokitty on October 30, 2014, 02:37:07 PM
It was also heartless to take them out hunting so they could kill. The royals made many mistakes when Diana lived so it was no different when she died.
why was it heartless to let them do something they like which would keep their minds off what had happened? 

TLLK

Quote from: amabel on October 30, 2014, 05:13:12 PM
Quote from: snokitty on October 30, 2014, 02:37:07 PM
It was also heartless to take them out hunting so they could kill. The royals made many mistakes when Diana lived so it was no different when she died.
why was it heartless to let them do something they like which would keep their minds off what had happened? 
I agree that it was best for the family to permit the boys to carry on with the activities that they enjoyed at Balmoral. I do know that Peter and Zara took them hiking and riding during that time period.

Limabeany

I agree @snokitty When you pretend nothing happened, children don't feel free to express their grief or ask questions.
"You don't have to be pretty. You don't owe prettiness to anyone. Not to your boyfriend/spouse/partner, not to your co-workers, especially not to random men on the street. You don't owe it to your mother, you don't owe it to your children, you don't owe it to civilization in general. Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked 'female'." Diana Vreeland.

amabel

Quote from: Limabeany on October 31, 2014, 04:58:51 AM
I agree @snokitty When you pretend nothing happened, children don't feel free to express their grief or ask questions.
where is the evidence that this happened?  The boys clearly did express their grief, they still refer to Diana and grieve over her at times. I'm sure that they were glad at the immediate time of Di's death to spend at least some of their time doing something to take their minds  off things.  even in the extremes of grief life has to go on and we tend to try and take our minds off the worst of it, for a while. 

Rebound

A lot of people, even the most grieved, can be grateful for a little respite from overwhelming grief. People laugh, tell amusing stories, and appreciate the humor that their loved ones had in life. Memories can bring great happiness as well as sadness. People all grieve differently, even among families. You can laugh and cry at the same time.

I am a human with a heart, whose heart has been broken often. I know this from personal experience, having lost my brother, parents, grandparents, 2 uncles, childhood friends, and 2 adult best friends at young ages. At times I have felt stalked by death, and have been very grateful for a break of good times and pleasure, and some comforting, physical things to work through grief.

Trudie

While I agree with taking the boys to church that morning it was the one place where they could pray for their mother in private, The actions of the Clergy and Royal family clearly did not afford the boys that option. Sandy was right in her post that Harry was confused and asked Charles if he was sure his Mummy was dead I read that as well. Diana may have not been popular with her former husband and in laws at that time but she was William and Harry's mother and the RF could have and should have also had the Spencer relations up to Balmoral for support as well.



Rebound

Snokitty, no when my mother died I was 14, of course I didn't just run outside and play. I cried, screamed, and was heartbroken. But at some point, a child can't take that much grief.

I feel that it is healthy to suggest activities a child might like, just to relieve a little of that horrible, heart-wrenching grief for a short time. Children grieve differently from adults. They understand someone saying that Mummy wouldn't want you to cry all day. She loved seeing you play. Want to go outside and swing for a while? Or track animals, or go fishing, or something the child enjoys. That can be very comforting.

As William said, Never being able to say the word "Mummy" again in your life sounds like a small thing.
'However, for many, including me, it's now really just a word – hollow and evoking only memories.'

You never forget it, you learn to live with it. If adults felt Harry would benefit from putting his mind into something besides unrelieved grief, I think that's fine.




Double post auto-merged: November 25, 2014, 05:10:41 AM


I personally feel that grieving children should not be put on public display, especially at sensitive ages like William and Harry. IF that was really their desire, I suppose it's OK. But to push them into doing something they don't want to while they are grieving is wrong. IMO, and experience, of course.

Macrobug

My beloved grandfather died when I was 13. The first thing I did was go climb a tree.  Then I ran as hard as I could to the back fields of the farm.  I needed that excercise and activity to process what had happened. I was old enough to understand death but too young to deal with it and all the grieving activities.  My parents understood that and allowed me to leave the funeral palour and go for walks, whatever.

I think it was wise to let the boys deal with the initial shock of Diana's death away from the public.  And at that age physical activity is an outlet.  So going hunting or hiking was good. It may have given them a chance to talk to the adults in their lives.  Kids open up better when they are doing activities.
GNU Terry Pratchett

Curryong

My mother died when I was eleven and a half. It wasn't like Diana's death. My mother died at home after a long battle with cancer. Even so, I can empathise with what William and Harry were feeling. Of course I cried and felt numb, for a long time. It's been decades now, but when I married, when I had my first baby, the ache was still there. You never forget.

Nevertheless, my father never discouraged playing with my friends in the days after her death. I went on a farm visit and I enjoyed it. I got a lot of comfort from being with people of my own age. What was the alternative? That I sat inside my home and mourned?

There was a lot of tension between the Spencers and Charles following Diana's death. I don't think the Spencers being at Balmoral would have been helpful.

Curryong

There were overblown worries about Charles's safety on the funeral route but we don't know that William was forced into walking. That story seems to have become woven into the narrative of Diana's funeral

His grandfather Philip, who had attended many relatives' funerals, was said to have advised him to and told him he would probably regret it afterwards if he didn't. He also offered to walk by William's side. We have no known evidence that undue pressure was put on either of the boys, though.

amabel

Quote from: Curryong on November 25, 2014, 06:44:20 AM
There were overblown worries about Charles's safety on the funeral route but we don't know that William was forced into walking. That story seems to have become woven into the narrative of Diana's funeral

His grandfather Philip, who had attended many relatives' funerals, was said to have advised him to and told him he would probably regret it afterwards if he didn't. He also offered to walk by William's side. We have no known evidence that undue pressure was put on either of the boys, though.
I shouldn't think there was. I don't think that they should have been pushed out to speak to the crowds but I think that it was good, Even if not easy, for them that they walked in the procession. I think that Phil was right if he said to Will that he'd regret it afterwards if he didn't.

Double post auto-merged: November 25, 2014, 09:31:36 AM


Quote from: Curryong on November 25, 2014, 05:43:43 AM
My mother died when I was eleven and a half. It wasn't like Diana's death. My mother died at home after a long battle with cancer. Even so, I can empathise with what William and Harry were feeling. Of course I cried and felt numb, for a long time. It's been decades now, but when I married, when I had my first baby, the ache was still there. You never forget.

Nevertheless, my father never discouraged playing with my friends in the days after her death. I went on a farm visit and I enjoyed it. I got a lot of comfort from being with people of my own age. What was the alternative? That I sat inside my home and mourned?

There was a lot of tension between the Spencers and Charles following Diana's death. I don't think the Spencers being at Balmoral would have been helpful.
even if you are an adult, you don't Sit and grieve all the time, after a death.  You may do it some of the time, but its just impossible to do it all the time.   There are normal things that have to be done, routine stuff, that you still have to do like shoping and preparing meals and so on, and its human nature to want to relieve the grief after a time by doing something you enjoy which takes your mind off it a little. of course it never stops hurting completely but I think that having the boys stay at Balmoral and do their things that they enjoyed, Rather than siting around crying or watching all the stuff on TV was fare better

Double post auto-merged: November 25, 2014, 09:33:04 AM


Quote from: snokitty on November 24, 2014, 11:53:07 PM
If you were just told that your Mother had died your first thought would be to go do something pleasurable?   :no:

They were children at the time, not full grown adults who could understand things better.
It wasn't theirs "first thought".  but they would hardly sit and weep all the time and if they did, it wouldn't be good for them.  After a day or 2, I think ti was good for them to go out of the house, do something that took some of their attention and gave them a little relief from their pain

TLLK

Quote from: Curryong on November 25, 2014, 06:44:20 AM
There were overblown worries about Charles's safety on the funeral route but we don't know that William was forced into walking. That story seems to have become woven into the narrative of Diana's funeral

His grandfather Philip, who had attended many relatives' funerals, was said to have advised him to and told him he would probably regret it afterwards if he didn't. He also offered to walk by William's side. We have no known evidence that undue pressure was put on either of the boys, though.
I recall a moment during the funeral procession when the royals and Earl Spencer were paused under the Marble Arch and assumed they were not seen by the cameras. Phillip took the opportunity to pat them on the shoulder to reassure them. Offering William a choice and providing him with support appears to be the actions of a man who understood his grandson's nature IMHO.

amabel

I think Phil is fairly close to William, at lesast he was back then when probably Will didn't have the best realtionship with his father, because of the marriage problems.  I think that he turned to his grandparents for a warm but "non dramatic" relationship and support.  I think that Phil would indeed Say that even if it was hard for W to walk behind his mother's coffin, it was the right thing to do, and that if he didn't do it he would regret it later on, that he didn't show her the last respect of being  there during her final journey.

TLLK

^^^I've read that the two are very close. IMO he is the one who could best relate to his grandchildren's feelings when their parents' marriages ended due to his own childhood experience.

amabel

Well I am not srure that Philips the Loviey dovey granddad type!  but I think that he was probably good for the kids, to give them warmth but "tough love support" at that time.