How did Diana do in school?

[TLLK]

And on this we will agree. :friends:
Double post auto-merged: March 11, 2017, 01:07:52 AM

@sandy-I'm not sure if stating that Diana "spoke Welsh" when she only read a few lines which had been phonetically written for her is an adequate example of Diana's intelligence.

IMHO the fact that Diana did learn despite having little or no extra support at school is by far a better example of her academic success than a few lines of Welsh.

[Curryong]

Whether Diana spoke Welsh well enough to be able to communicate with Welsh speakers in a lengthy conversation I don't know. However, I suspect not. Charles went to Aberystwyth University for a short time and supposedly learned quite a bit of Welsh. Even so, I doubt very much that today he would claim to be a Welsh speaker.

In my experience 'if you don't use it you lose it' tends to be a truism where speaking other languages are concerned, whoever you are.  I doubt that Charles would come across so many Welsh speakers in his everyday life that he would be comfortable in the language, even though I'm sure he has memorised a few Welsh sentences and knows the basics. That would be even more true for Diana in her years as Princess of Wales.

My belief is that Diana was of normal and average intelligence, but may have had a mild learning disability that made being in a classroom difficult for her. I think that Diana's  confidence was rather shaken by this, as the disability was almost certainly undiagnosed and so she may well have thought she was less 'clever' than others. Her schooldays as she grew older were therefore not particularly comfortable ones for her.

I agree with Amabel that this unfortunately impacted on Diana's willingness to learn anything about her position as Prss of Wales from books as an adult, an aversion she masked by pretending she wasn't interested in the subjects offered.

I see so much of these aspects of Diana reflected in her son Harry. The difficulty with schoolwork, inability to pass exams, the learning disability of his which was also apparently undiagnosed for a long time, is all also there with Harry, as are the remarks made over the years about being 'thick'.

However, both Diana and her son have an emotional connection to people, who warm easily to them. They were/are both able to connect almost intuitively with those who were/are hurt or ill or feeling sad and lonely. To me, that makes them special as royals and in a way is worth more than academic achievements, valuable though those are of course.

[TLLK]

In my experience 'if you don't use it you lose it' tends to be a truism where speaking other languages are concerned, whoever you are.  I doubt that Charles would come across so many Welsh speakers in his everyday life that he would be comfortable in the language, even though I'm sure he has memorised a few Welsh sentences and knows the basics. That would be even more true for Diana in her years as Princess of Wales.

I agree. I've read accounts of Welsh speakers trying to start up a conversation in Welsh with Charles and he'll reply back in Welsh with a few pleasantries but will eventually end the exchange  with "I'm sorry but I don't understand." @Curryong is correct because if you don't use it you will lose it.  Quite likely that Phillip no longer has much command of his boyhood German or "kitchen Greek" either.

My belief is that Diana was of normal and average intelligence, but may have had a mild learning disability that made being in a classroom difficult for her. I think that Diana's  confidence was rather shaken by this, as the disability was almost certainly undiagnosed and so she may well have thought she was less 'clever' than others. Her schooldays as she grew older were therefore not particularly comfortable ones for her.

It's so frustrating for those who struggle in school and who end up believing that they are unintelligent. Diana had a quick wit along with an innate ability to converse with ease when she was among people. It's clear that she had normal intelligence.

[amabel]

And on this we will agree. :friends:
Double post auto-merged: March 11, 2017, 01:07:52 AM

@sandy-I'm not sure if stating that Diana "spoke Welsh" when she only read a few lines which had been phonetically written for her is an adequate example of Diana's intelligence.

IMHO the fact that Diana did learn despite having little or no extra support at school is by far a better example of her academic success than a few lines of Welsh.

She learned a few lines of Welsh, by rote... she wasn't in ANY way a "Welsh" speaker.
As for school, i don't think she had no support, I think she didn't try very hard, or possibly she DID have some kind of leanring disability.. and at the time it wasn't well known and so it wasn't picked up on.  Or possibly she just wasn't geared for learning bout academic subjects and did better on practical things..
Double post auto-merged: March 11, 2017, 08:28:10 AM

Whether Diana spoke Welsh well enough to be able to communicate with Welsh speakers in a lengthy conversation I don't know. However, I suspect not. Charles went to Aberystwyth University for a short time and supposedly learned quite a bit of Welsh. Even so, I doubt very much that today he would claim to be a Welsh speaker.

In my experience 'if you don't use it you lose it' tends to be a truism where speaking other languages are concerned, whoever you are.  I doubt that Charles would come across so many Welsh speakers in his everyday life that he would be comfortable in the language, even though I'm sure he has memorised a few Welsh sentences and knows the basics. That would be even more true for Diana in her years as Princess of Wales.

My belief is that Diana was of normal and average intelligence, but may have had a mild learning disability that made being in a classroom difficult for her. I think that Diana's  confidence was rather shaken by this, as the disability was almost certainly undiagnosed and so she may well have thought she was less 'clever' than others. Her schooldays as she grew older were therefore not particularly comfortable ones for her.

I agree with Amabel that this unfortunately impacted on Diana's willingness to learn anything about her position as Prss of Wales from books as an adult, an aversion she masked by pretending she wasn't interested in the subjects offered.

I

i think it was unfortunate because she ahd a very stubborn streak, and I think that she showed that in her early years as Princess with refusign to read things. So I can see that it looked to her aides that she wasn't very clever or well educated and she wouldn't TRY to be any better.

[sandy]

She did speak the language in the speech. I don't get the denial of that. She did not speak English or French. So you can say language students who are starting out and speak phrases and don't really "speak" the language?!  Diana did try to be better. Unlike her son William, she set out to improve her speech and was eager to learn. Diana was not the lazy lump that her detractors like to think she was.

[amabel]

She did speak the language in the speech. I don't get the denial of that. She did not speak English or French. So you can say language students who are starting out and speak phrases and don't really "speak" the language?!  Diana did try to be better. Unlike her son William, she set out to improve her speech and was eager to learn. Diana was not the lazy lump that her detractors like to think she was.

Noone is saying she was Lazy.  She didn't speak the language, she leared a sentence or two and repeated it.  that's not speaking it. she didn't as far as I know go on to learn more than a few phrases.  if she had learned phrases and then gone on to learn more of the language tehn she would be "speaking the langague.." but she didn't. 

[sandy]

As I mentioned to TLK some European stage stars came to the US to be in theatre and film. I read they learned English phonetically. And were able to star in theatre and film and learned English. So DIana did not have to do more than those sentences but theoretically if she moved to Wales a way she could have learned English was phonetically. When people go travel, those in other countries like to hear tourists speak their language even if they are using a phrase book.

[TLLK]

When people go travel, those in other countries like to hear tourists speak their language even if they are using a phrase book.

That is true but I would not consider them to be actual speakers of those languages. IMO that implies  a basic grasp of the nouns, pronouns, verb tenses and a  somewhat acceptable pronunciation.

I've learned phrases in French and German to use with family members in those countries, but I would never consider myself to be a speaker of those languages.

Having taken years of Spanish I would still only consider myself to have only a rudimentary knowledge of the language. My Italian is even less proficient.

If Diana was alive today I don't know if she would have considered herself to be a Welsh speaker. I'm not even sure if Charles would think of himself as one even though he had more instruction in the language.

[amabel]

As I mentioned to TLK some European stage stars came to the US to be in theatre and film. I read they learned English phonetically. And were able to star in theatre and film and learned English. So DIana did not have to do more than those sentences but theoretically if she moved to Wales a way she could have learned English was phonetically. When people go travel, those in other countries like to hear tourists speak their language even if they are using a phrase book.

she didn't go to wales or leanr the language.  She learned a few phrases. If someone had engaged her in conversation in Welsh she woud have been completely stumped...

[Trudie]

That is true amabel though learning a few phrases and being able to pronounce the words of such a difficult language say she didn't lack the drive to learn. The same could be said of her learning to sign Diana willingly learn to communicate with the deaf citizens she came in contact with. Diana wasn't stupid nor was she an intellectual there are many people who are extremely bright though not book smart and became successful individuals through self teaching. At the age of 20 I wouldn't have wanted to read biographies either though 10 years later I did happen to read James Pope Hennessey's bio of Queen Mary and Many bios of Queen Victoria and her daughter The Empress Frederick.

[sandy]

When people go travel, those in other countries like to hear tourists speak their language even if they are using a phrase book.

That is true but I would not consider them to be actual speakers of those languages. IMO that implies  a basic grasp of the nouns, pronouns, verb tenses and a  somewhat acceptable pronunciation.

I've learned phrases in French and German to use with family members in those countries, but I would never consider myself to be a speaker of those languages.

Having taken years of Spanish I would still only consider myself to have only a rudimentary knowledge of the language. My Italian is even less proficient.

If Diana was alive today I don't know if she would have considered herself to be a Welsh speaker. I'm not even sure if Charles would think of himself as one even though he had more instruction in the language.

She gave a speech in Welsh. I think you are doing some hair splitting here.

I have found that those in other countries appreciate  visitors  talking in their language. The English speakers know what they are saying and communicating.

Diana was not some lazy ignoramus who did not want to pitch in. She did learn those phrases and despite nervousness was approved of and applauded by the Welsh. What else is there to know?
Double post auto-merged: March 11, 2017, 11:46:11 PM

As I mentioned to TLK some European stage stars came to the US to be in theatre and film. I read they learned English phonetically. And were able to star in theatre and film and learned English. So DIana did not have to do more than those sentences but theoretically if she moved to Wales a way she could have learned English was phonetically. When people go travel, those in other countries like to hear tourists speak their language even if they are using a phrase book.

she didn't go to wales or leanr the language.  She learned a few phrases. If someone had engaged her in conversation in Welsh she woud have been completely stumped...

She was assigned to give a speech. Not to talk to people in Welsh. If you see the footage, the Welsh people really took to her even though she did not converse with them in Welsh.

[Curryong]

This is Diana's first speech as Princess of Wales on the tour of Wales undertaken in 1981. You can see hear just how much of the speech, two or three sentences, was in Welsh and how she then reverted back to English. I believe Diana learned those words of Welsh for the speech and was applauded for it. Good on her, the Welsh took her to their hearts and she reciprocated. That however does not make Diana a Welsh speaker, as in one who is comfortable and competent in that language and able to converse and follow a conversation.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u97P7p2XxGg

Welsh is quite a difficult language apparently and Diana did well to learn that short excerpt in her speech. However, I had lovely Finnish friends years ago and learned quite a bit of the Finnish language  from them, most of which I have forgotten. I went to the Netherlands several times when younger and found the Dutch language much easier than French. Yet, if I had been suddenly transported to any town in Finland or the Netherlands using what I knew of these languages and no English, I would have been utterly and completely lost.

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Diana took Welsh language lessons, still less that she pursued learning the language till she was proficient in it. That is, in my view, being able to read the language, write it, converse in it, understand completely what is being said. It just didn't happen, heart warming though it was of Diana to use a couple of Welsh phrases in her speech.

[sandy]

 she was praised because she did give that speech. It did endear her to the people.

[amabel]

This is Diana's first speech as Princess of Wales on the tour of Wales undertaken in 1981. You can see hear just how much of the speech, two or three sentences, was in Welsh and how she then reverted back to English. I believe Diana learned those words of Welsh for the speech and was applauded for it. Good on her, the Welsh took her to their hearts and she reciprocated. That however does not make Diana a Welsh speaker, as in one who is comfortable and competent in that language and able to converse and follow a conversation.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u97P7p2XxGg

Welsh is quite a difficult language apparently and Diana did well to learn that short excerpt in her speech. However, I had lovely Finnish friends years ago and learned quite a bit of the Finnish language  from them, most of which I have forgotten. I went to the Netherlands several times when younger and found the Dutch language much easier than French. Yet, if I had been suddenly transported to any town in Finland or the Netherlands using what I knew of these languages and no English, I would have been utterly and completely lost.

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Diana took Welsh language lessons, still less that she pursued learning the language till she was proficient in it. That is, in my view, being able to read the language, write it, converse in it, understand completely what is being said. It just didn't happen, heart warming though it was of Diana to use a couple of Welsh phrases in her speech.

No, she didn't give a speech in welsh.  She learned a few phrases and put them in her speech.  Of course the crowd loved her, they usualy did but it was because she was sweet and pretty, not because she made a great success of saying a few words in welsh.  IIRC it was suggested that she "learn a bit of Weslh" prior to her tour and she didn't want to. Just like she didn't want to read up about royal history.

[sandy]

I never recalled she was told to "learn a bit of Welsh" but that she had to make the speech and she did. Diana was not some mannequin she really interacted well with the people it was not just her looks.

[amabel]

Nobody's saying she didn't interact with people. bujt she could nto speak Weslh.  learning a few sentences by rote is not speaking welsh

[sandy]

I think it is. I see politicians doing it. Notably Kennedy's "Ich bin ein Berliner." Maybe he did not speak fluent German but that simple statement made a huge impact

[amabel]

that is not the point. Kennedy didn't speak German.... Diana didn't speak Welsh. 

[TLLK]

learning a few phrases and being able to pronounce the words of such a difficult language say she didn't lack the drive to learn

Good point @Trudie. While she may have found learning the phrases and tackling the tricky pronunciation a challenge, she did make the effort to do it. Regarding her sign language it may have been easier for her to accomplish because as an athlete/dancer and pianist I believe that she had good fine and large motor skills.

[sandy]

I think it's a matter of opinion about her speaking another language. Sometimes phrases said in other languages can make a huge difference with a visiting royal or politician.

[TLLK]

I'm quite sure that Diana and the rest of the BRF have learned the typical greetings for their various trips abroad but they'd certainly need translators for any meaningful interaction between their hosts and the public if they were not English speakers.

Apart from the Queen, (French) Brigitte (Danish), Marie Christine (German) and Michael (Russian) most of the family is limited to English with varying proficiency in French, Spanish, Italian, German and Greek. I think that William and Harry have dabbled in Swahili.

Fortunately for her and the rest of the BRF nearly every  royal speaks English. :)

[sandy]

I don't think Will and Harry are linguists.

[TLLK]

Probably not but likely they had to take at least a year or so of a foreign language to qualify for graduation from Eton College.

[sandy]

How much they retained is subject to speculation

[TLLK]

 Eton college requires its students to study the following in foreign language: 

Boys arriving at Eton in F block choose two modern languages to study during their first year, and whether or not to continue with or take up classical Greek.

The modern language choice is between French, German, Spanish, Russian, Japanese and Chinese, subject to certain restrictions. Boys can also study Arabic off-timetable.

They study two of the three sciences at a time, so studying each for two full halves during their first year.

All boys are required to study each of the other subjects on offer for the number of schools (periods) shown: English (4); mathematics (4); Latin (3); science (6); two modern languages (3 each); divinity, geography and history (2 each). Music, art, drama, PE, ICT and design are studied in rotation.

F Block

While this is the current requirement I wouldn't be surprised if those languages were still available choices when the brothers were attending Eton. However if they don't use it, then it's likely that they've only retained so much over the years.

I've read that Sophie and Edward have been studying French together. They're the current favorites for QEII to send to foreign weddings so it doesn't hurt for them to learn a little French to speak with the Belgians, Danes (Most of them speak French too.) Luxembourgers, and others.

Anyhow back to the topic of Diana and school.  :)

I think she would have been pleased to see both of her sons graduate from Eton and  William from St. Andrews. Also I think that she would have been proud of their passing out at Sandhurst too.