Prince Charles was an insider

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

Well, they say your focus determines your reality, and i'd say part of the problem was Dianas focus, or worldview of romance, while admirable, set her up to be very emotionally vulnerable and to be greatly disappointed which it turns out, she was.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the subject of advice helping her out, her older sisters, friends, mom or step mother etc. could have given her valuable information on tempering her expectations, and on how to find her own happiness if it turns out her husband was a disappointment.

It goes without saying that leaving a marriage is traumatic, however, I posit that she had options for happiness, even better ones, by staying if she had her mind open to them.

Yes, Diana wanted a loving husband, and im not suggesting that Charles isnt to blame, but it also has to be acknowledged that Dianas view of marriage left her with less options than perhaps an older, more pragmatic woman.

Yes Diana had some money, but she also acknowledged that it was quite something to have all the royal trappings, when in the settlin tapes, she mentions that she was unwilling to leave Charles for Barry Manakee because of said trappings. So she wanted a loving husband, but when presented with a chance for a love she felt very strongly, she backed away from the edge.

Hypergamy is an evolutionary trait, so im certainly not going to hold it against her, any more than Charles selecting her for her outstanding genetic potential for his offspring, but if she was going to not leave for love, it would have served her better if the female role models in her live had educated her more on how to navigate this minefield.

Camilla (and omg I cant believe im not going to say something not totally awful about the woman) was ambitious to be Charles main mistress, and while Diana was a rival for his time and affections, especially once the children were born, did not want her out of the picture. She still had to juggle Andrew at that time, until Charles was stupid enough to cuckold him publicly and force their divorce. So I think even if presented with the option of having all Charles time, I think shed have refused it. It was only once Andrew dropped her that she had to push to marry Charles, and he had to marry her.   

Is it awful what C&C did, for sure, but one cant expect the burglar to show you how to set your alarms and locks, so it was up to those responsible for raising Diana to have her prepared for the potential for what happened and to make the best life possible in it. Thats my main issue, obviously the main narrative of the situation holds true, Diana good, C&C bad, but I propose that if shed have had more tools in her toolchest, she would have had more options, and more happiness, even if shed ultimately decided to do what she did. I cant see how anyone could argue against that, or not see that.

She made her choices out of desperation and learning everything the hard way as she went along in the marriage, and one could argue that it was only once the loss of Hewitt as a long term lover, and seeing Charles affair working swimmingly, that frustration led her to get out by any means necessary. That where, one could argue with hindsight, that the RF should have seen the potential for impending disaster and made sure she was accommodated in the future with the opportunity to have a more smoothly working relationship outside the marriage.

They saw her refuse to have the word "obey" in the vows, she brought William to Oz, she was never shy about her opinions about the boys schooling, etc., maybe it was classic male chauvanism, but it boggles my mind that they couldnt see by the early 90s how formidable she could be. They learned to their peril how strong she could be.

[sandy]

Frances told her biographer she had a hands off approach where Diana was concerned, in the run up to the wedding.  Suppose she had "warned" Diana (which she did not), Diana could have still been starry eyed about Charles and believed in him. She told Morton that she thought Camilla was "over" after she and Charles took their vows.  A woman should not have to "settle" to be in a bad marriage to a man who increasingly appeared to loathe her and put her down. That is unhealthy and Diana's stress brought about the bulimia. ANd eroded her self esteem. Diana was unwilling to leave Charles for Mannakee (which IMO was just talk on her part, obviously) not because of money but because she would surely have lost much access to her sons. She would have been the "bolter." MOney was not the issue, her children were.

I think Camilla wanted almost all of what Diana had. I think she wanted to be more than the mistress and had contempt for Diana. I would not see Charles affair as "working" swimmingly. The woman was not his wife and the affair was sordid. I don't even think Charles wanted to marry her, but he opened his mouth and admitted he was involved with his friend's wife, causing the divorce. Charles also cheated on Camilla with Janet Jenkins, so I don't see how this affair went "swimmingly."

Diana had no future with Hewitt because once again, if she opted to leave Charles for him she would have lost access to her sons. There was no future for them even if their affair lasted longer than it did.

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

Frances took the wrong approach with her as she had to have, or should have known that Diana lived in a fantasy world where it comes to romance, and whether it was a prince or a city of london bank executive, it left her open to having the same experience that Frances had.

Im not suggesting she "settle" im wishing she had choices available to her. Much of the stress, self esteem and bulimia issues was because of the fact that she was learning her life was a lie and had little to fall back on.

Yes, she would have lost custody of the children, maybe it was just a schoolgirl fantasy, but you can hear the light in her voice when she talks about going away, and also her reluctance to give up all of this.

As for what camilla wanted, it would depend on when you asked her, im sure in the early 70s or whenever they first met, shed have wanted the whole ball of wax, but she knew that wasnt to be, so she hung on to the next best thing. The affair went "swimmingly" for Charles in that he got what he wanted for over 2 decades, sex with camilla and others, and the staff and the family worked to conceal it. I think if you could ask Camilla after a few drinks now, shed express some understanding and sympathy for Diana in terms of how much work the whole royal thing is, not to mention having to work on ones appearance, etc. things she never had to do as his mistress.

I have to disagree with Hewitt and having a future, it was Dianas self destructive nature that scotched the deal on that one, more than once. There was a period of detant where they she advised Charles that Hewitt was in her life like Camilla was in his life.

I certainty cant prove it, but i often wonder if things like bringing Hewitt to Charles 40th birthday party set off the events of his being transferred. To be fair, Diana was very hurt over the attention Camilla got being at Highgrove for her 50th birthday almost 10 years later, i dont think Diana could see that it would be a public embarrassment to Charles to have Hewitt at his birthday party, and one wonders if that set in motion his transfer to Germany. I dont think Diana imagined how she would feel if Charles brought Camilla to Dianas birthday. Obviously she was in her mid to late 20s and still had some maturing to do, which is normal, but again, some sage advice from the older women in her life would have been helpful when this stage of her life came about.

When Hewitt was stationed to Germany, she viewed his reluctance to having her act on his behalf to keep him stationed in england as a betrayal and broke things off with him.

IMO that showed a lack of awareness of his situation and sensitivity to others needs, in that he had to depend on his career if she ever dropped him, and her meddling in that would have been bad for him.Then after her friendzoning with Gilbey was discovered by the press (who kept the story vaulted for over 3 years) she went back to Hewitt.

Now he was stupid enough to use Richard Kays sat phone in the gulf to call her, after it broke in the press she dropped him again, and I know ill get some hate for this, but imo she did to him what Charles did to her, as in, left him with no choice but to lash out.

By dropping him and leaving him cast adrift, upset over the breakup that he failed his major exams and was advised to leave the army. With no career and no strong female in his life, he played the only card left to him, his info on his time with Diana. It would have been much wiser to have seen to it he was well taken care of, not so much as an act of kindness, but to make sure he had lots to lose if he spilled the beans. Just like Charles should have done by making sure she had an arrangement similar to his, where a long term lover of hers was given the support that the staff and family gave to his.

But both of them felt they were in an untouchable position, and both learned to their detriment the cost of not sewing up loose ends.

Had her mother, older sisters and maybe even step mother taken a more hands on role in making sure Diana knew more about the ways of the married world, she could have either gone into the marriage with eyes open and a plan, or chosen to avoid it all together. Or maybe being wiser might have made Charles reluctant to marry her as the RF needed someone that was easily kept in the dark, at least until an heir and a spare were produced. Maybe if she have been more wise, she wouldnt have been as sweet and charming, as part of her appeal early on was her inexperience and shy, demure image.

I dont think it would have affected how we feel about her, she still would have been sweet and lovely, but she would have had more options for happiness and wouldnt have had to learn so much the hard way. Given that the success of the marriage was a big boost to the Spencer family's standing and I think ultimately cost her her life, either by accident or deliberate, depending on your view of the events.

So there was a heavy price paid by Diana, her children, her family, the RF, the country and even the world for that lack of education. While her father held the responsibility of moving the family through the last part of the 20th century, he was ill equipped to teach her, so it fell to Frances, Sarah and Jane to do it, and they failed. As they say on the internet "You had one job!!"

I feel like ive written about as much as i can on the subject for now, It concerns me that people are so their view of the narrative they cant see the larger picture. The "blame" if thats the right word, while squarely laying on C&C's feet, also lay at the feet of the older women in Diana's life. The best bad event is the one that doesnt happen, and had they done a better job of educating her, she could have either avoided the trap C&C set for her, or at least had an easier ladder to get out of it, rather than scratching her way out like she did with much damage to her physical and mental health, and even her very life.

I know some may feel that it somehow lets C&C off the hook, not at all, but whats worse, the person who breaks into a house, or the person that didnt teach the victim how to lock their door and avoid the crime altogether?  I just wanted Diana to be happy and never have a day of care or worry in her life and the ineptitude of those people let her stumble into several days of both those things, and that makes me very upset. :flower:

[sandy]

Hewitt showed he had no character running to spill the beans to author Pasternack.  I think he showed his true colors then. Khan never had a kiss and tell memoir although he had to testify at the hearing about Diana's death.  I think Diana saw more of Hewitt's character flaws as the years passed. And he proved he was a money grubber trying to make money out of his relationship with Diana. Hewitt could have gotten a proper job and I don't buy this was the "only" thing he could have done. Sorry I don't buy into that he was forced to do this. IT was a rotten thing for him to do. Also Hewitt could have walked and not gotten involved with Diana in the first place. Unlike Charles who slept with a brother officer's wife and got off scot free, Hewitt could be ostracized for what he did. He had a choice.  The only positive thing was that Diana's bulimia symptoms abated when she first got involved with Hewitt since she did get in a relationship with someone who (then) cared about her.

The Spencers DID want the match. Especially her father and maternal grandmother. Sarah was supposed to marry Charles but after that ended, they looked to Diana. They may or may not have realized the extent of the pain this caused Diana to be rejected.

I doubt Charles cared that Hewitt was at the party. It was said that CHarles was relieved that Diana had a partner so she would not complain about Camilla. Charles was nervy enough to get involved with his friends' wives so I doubt he's the sensitive type when it comes to these things. His use for DIana ended when he got the heir and spare.

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

If you think im suggesting Hewitt showed character by doing what he did, then the message isnt getting through. I didnt suggest he was forced to do it, rather it was his path of least resistance, so again, my message i guess isnt getting through, and he was not given sufficient resistance put in his path to make that option not the most preferable one.

Do you know why Charles slept/sleeps with married women so often? Its because he wants to be sure they have more to lose by disclosing the affair than he does. It was mentioned in a doc on either Kanga or Camilla, i forget which. Its adultery 101, that Diana should have schooled on by her family and friends before the marriage but wasnt.

She made a poor choice in Hewitt for that reason that he had nothing to lose, without a wife and family, it would have been wise for her to see to it that he was well taken care of with a job and possibly some introductions to other women, and have it made known that its due to Dianas good graces, and hed have been less likely to bite the hand that feeds him vs. as he would see it, sticking it to someone that stopped taking his calls(the kids today call it ghosting, I believe).

Yes, Hewitt could have gotten a job, again, im not arguing the merit of his choice, just that with what he had to work with, he took the most lucrative option. How much would it have been worth Diana both in press image, divorce settlement, heartache having to tell William and him not talking to her for a few days over it, etc. etc.? Probably would have been cheaper to give Hewitt a comfortable landing.

As for not seeing her, I can say, except for Charles, few men would have resisted her charms, as she was the pursuer in the relationship. As a fellow male, I can say that it would be impossible to resist her, it might be the moral thing to do, but not realistic, also Hewitt wouldnt have assumed it would go that way in the flush of the beginning of the romance with all the endorphins and hormones, etc.

I didnt suggest the Spencers DIDNT want the union, I only said they did a bad job of preparing Diana for it. Idk if it was they were clueless, indifferent or in Sarahs case maybe wanted to stick it a bit to Diana for getting what was supposed to be hers, while at the same time letting her learn the hard way.

Charles wouldnt have cared on a personal level as in, it wouldnt have broken his heart to have Hewitt there, but in terms of pride of how he was seen among his peers, no man likes to be publicly cuckolded, even if its due to his own indifference. I can see him being the type that would enact revenge on her by writing a few black spider letters and getting Hewitt shipped away both for a sick fun, and to show her who has the power. But again, ive seen nothing that directly suggests this is what happened.

Im trying to talk about "facts on the ground" or things as they were/are, not what they could/should have been. Cant you people see that the marriage breakdown in an acrimonious divorce was the worst thing that could have happened to Diana???

It cost her everything, her best years, time from her kids, a large part of her sanity and self esteem, her physical health for a lot of years, and her very life!!! Minus a regualr accident or unforseen illness, She'd still be alive to hold her grandkids, watch her children become full adults, we could have seen her totally slay Kate in looks and style even at 55, we would have reveled in skewering the press who would have dared criticize her graceful, aging looks, and seen her take the throne beside Charles. Yes, she may not have wanted it by then, but she went through all of that for it, whether she thought about it or not.

She should have been able to live at the RF expense, finding a good love outside the marriage, which was far easier than finding another marriage suitor, having full access to her kids, having the royal machinery to help with her charity goals, and gone to the coronation instead of Camilla. Despite their feeling towards each other, they were an amazing team together on tour and she'd have made an excellent Queen consort.

Her thinking there was some place called "abroad" where she could hide was a pipedream, the same as a suitable marriage partner. By the time she reached such fame, she was only going to have an egotistical billionaire to have her as arm candy, much like Jackie O after JFK. The bottom line is the guys that could give her the love and nurturing didnt have the money and power to move in her world and keep her safe, the guys with it, sure didnt get it by being warm and loving, so that was going to be further heartache.

Its not to suggest that C&C did a good thing, but at the same time, one also has to look at the facts that people other than C&C made the situation worse for Diana, and she herself was not perfect or mistake free in the matter. IDK why others cant admit that more than C&C were at fault and that Diana wasnt perfect. It doesnt dilute the "blame" C&C share for the events, it just helps explain them in greater context, people are rarely black and white, theres some grey to go around for everyone involved.

Refusing to see Diana as anything other than a saint just gives ammo to the Camilla fans for no good reason. I think we make a much more effective argument when we can look at her honestly, and despite her flaws which everyone has, she was still an amazing, loving woman deserving of our admiration.

[michelle0187]

I don't think the whole royal family ever expected  diana mania. She got too popular at such a young age and the windsors were not prepared for it at all. the windsors are well known for burying their heads in the sand once they spot trouble coming. Charles thought it was gonna be easy dealing with diana. Dealing with the reality that the Prince of Wales mistress tradition had to stop. He foolishly thought breaking marriage vows was as easy as holding a conversation with his plants. I think diana showed him how badly the RF needs the press, no matter how above they thought they were. All it took was diana publicly speaking of their marriage problems and realized they underestimated her.

[sandy]

If you think im suggesting Hewitt showed character by doing what he did, then the message isnt getting through. I didnt suggest he was forced to do it, rather it was his path of least resistance, so again, my message i guess isnt getting through, and he was not given sufficient resistance put in his path to make that option not the most preferable one.

Do you know why Charles slept/sleeps with married women so often? Its because he wants to be sure they have more to lose by disclosing the affair than he does. It was mentioned in a doc on either Kanga or Camilla, i forget which. Its adultery 101, that Diana should have schooled on by her family and friends before the marriage but wasnt.

She made a poor choice in Hewitt for that reason that he had nothing to lose, without a wife and family, it would have been wise for her to see to it that he was well taken care of with a job and possibly some introductions to other women, and have it made known that its due to Dianas good graces, and hed have been less likely to bite the hand that feeds him vs. as he would see it, sticking it to someone that stopped taking his calls(the kids today call it ghosting, I believe).

Yes, Hewitt could have gotten a job, again, im not arguing the merit of his choice, just that with what he had to work with, he took the most lucrative option. How much would it have been worth Diana both in press image, divorce settlement, heartache having to tell William and him not talking to her for a few days over it, etc. etc.? Probably would have been cheaper to give Hewitt a comfortable landing.

As for not seeing her, I can say, except for Charles, few men would have resisted her charms, as she was the pursuer in the relationship. As a fellow male, I can say that it would be impossible to resist her, it might be the moral thing to do, but not realistic, also Hewitt wouldnt have assumed it would go that way in the flush of the beginning of the romance with all the endorphins and hormones, etc.

I didnt suggest the Spencers DIDNT want the union, I only said they did a bad job of preparing Diana for it. Idk if it was they were clueless, indifferent or in Sarahs case maybe wanted to stick it a bit to Diana for getting what was supposed to be hers, while at the same time letting her learn the hard way.

Charles wouldnt have cared on a personal level as in, it wouldnt have broken his heart to have Hewitt there, but in terms of pride of how he was seen among his peers, no man likes to be publicly cuckolded, even if its due to his own indifference. I can see him being the type that would enact revenge on her by writing a few black spider letters and getting Hewitt shipped away both for a sick fun, and to show her who has the power. But again, ive seen nothing that directly suggests this is what happened.

Im trying to talk about "facts on the ground" or things as they were/are, not what they could/should have been. Cant you people see that the marriage breakdown in an acrimonious divorce was the worst thing that could have happened to Diana???

It cost her everything, her best years, time from her kids, a large part of her sanity and self esteem, her physical health for a lot of years, and her very life!!! Minus a regualr accident or unforseen illness, She'd still be alive to hold her grandkids, watch her children become full adults, we could have seen her totally slay Kate in looks and style even at 55, we would have reveled in skewering the press who would have dared criticize her graceful, aging looks, and seen her take the throne beside Charles. Yes, she may not have wanted it by then, but she went through all of that for it, whether she thought about it or not.

She should have been able to live at the RF expense, finding a good love outside the marriage, which was far easier than finding another marriage suitor, having full access to her kids, having the royal machinery to help with her charity goals, and gone to the coronation instead of Camilla. Despite their feeling towards each other, they were an amazing team together on tour and she'd have made an excellent Queen consort.

Her thinking there was some place called "abroad" where she could hide was a pipedream, the same as a suitable marriage partner. By the time she reached such fame, she was only going to have an egotistical billionaire to have her as arm candy, much like Jackie O after JFK. The bottom line is the guys that could give her the love and nurturing didnt have the money and power to move in her world and keep her safe, the guys with it, sure didnt get it by being warm and loving, so that was going to be further heartache.

Its not to suggest that C&C did a good thing, but at the same time, one also has to look at the facts that people other than C&C made the situation worse for Diana, and she herself was not perfect or mistake free in the matter. IDK why others cant admit that more than C&C were at fault and that Diana wasnt perfect. It doesnt dilute the "blame" C&C share for the events, it just helps explain them in greater context, people are rarely black and white, theres some grey to go around for everyone involved.

Refusing to see Diana as anything other than a saint just gives ammo to the Camilla fans for no good reason. I think we make a much more effective argument when we can look at her honestly, and despite her flaws which everyone has, she was still an amazing, loving woman deserving of our admiration.

I never said she was a "saint." She wasn't. She was human and not someone who would stay in a marriage where the husband increasingly showed is disdain for her, even in public.

Diana's life came to a conclusion at age 36 so where she would have gone, beyond Dodi, is very much subject to speculation.

Hewitt did seek out wealthy women after Diana who helped him financially and so on. Apparently he wore out his welcome with these women and can't sell the letters from Diana so he may have to get a real job.

The divorce itself was comparatively more civil than the years of the two living in a sham of a marriage with contempt from the husband.

Charles cuckolded at least two men, supposedly his friends so I don't have a pity party for Diana turning to someone else.

[TLLK]

" it just helps explain them in greater context, people are rarely black and white, theres some grey to go around for everyone involved."

I wholeheartedly agree  :nod:.

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

Thanks @TLLK seems you are getting what im talking about.

With some others, wow, im just blown away how what I say and what ppl take away from it is so different. Two things that Diana fans, esp. female fans tend to be very inflexible on is that anything less than praiseworthy about Diana is not tolerated, despite saying she wasnt a saint and ALL blame for the affairs on both sides and fallout Diana suffered is C&C's fault only, and anything other than that is not tolerated.

I dont know if its the different way that females and males identify with her, esp. if they had similar events in their life happen and so identify with her that way or what,idk.

But its a fact that Diana did not handle that situation perfectly with no mistakes or missteps, for goodness sakes, she was almost a child and had to learn it all with "live fire" as they say, no older friends or family teaching her or seeing the situation played out. Hewitt was subject to the mercurial treatment she could sometimes mete out, but in this case it did not serve her long term interests.

Second, her family and friends DID a poor job of teaching her what she's need to know, but somehow most of you seem to think that somehow exonerates C&C and thus vigorously attack that paradigm when it clearly is a contributing factor. I would think a Diana fan would be mad at anyone who did Diana a disservice, but it seems the Spencer family and her friends are off limits, only C&C have done her wrong.

Its not a zero sum game where if someone other than C&C are blamed, then less of the "blame" pie is available to throw at C&C. Theres plenty to go around for all involved but it seems thats not the case with a lot of ppl.

I think its an interesting observation that there were similarities in the way Charles treated
Diana, and Diana treated Hewitt, in terms of thinking they could be cut out of their lives and no negative repercussions would result, whereas a little forethought to ensure that once they were "done" with their respective persons, they left them in a position where they had a viable option other than revenge. Im sure Machiavelli and Sun Tsu would have some wiser way of saying it that I did, but it should be sufficient to make the point.

Imo the takeaway is that the isolation of royalty and having people at their beck and call tends to alter the way they view people.

I didnt say Diana shouldnt have turned to others, just that she should have done it in a way where the blowback wouldnt have been so bad. I know a certain element of hindsight is involved, but if you could ask her now, knowing it meant the loss of her life, if shed still want to leave the marriage, her answer might surprise some of you. Yes her romantic life after 97 is speculation, but the signs point to that situation I described, she tried the "slumming" approach or dating a "normal" person with Khan and that didnt work, there was a very small subset of people that could fit with the worlds most famous woman.

But it just discourages me seeing the inflexibility of the narrative and not trying to see a bigger picture, reminds me of the election, I tried to come here to get away from that, oh well, guess I was wrong on that.....

[sandy]

There are various points of view, it does not mean the one who disagrees is "inflexible." If Diana had been a saint (by some definitions) I think she'd have yessed Charles and done what she was told and not rattled the cage. She would have befriended Camilla Parker Bowles and played  nice.  Diana wanted a real marriage and complained to Charles. She was honest, and no Duch I am not saying this is "saintly."  I disagree with you and TLK but stereotyping Diana fans as making her saint is not correct and I have said so many times.  I never said she was a saint. I disagree with you.

My point is that Charles provided the weak foundation of the marriage by wanting to have his cake and eat it too. From the time when he decided to marry Diana, he did not give up Camilla who was always part of the marriage. It is not as if Diana came in with a lover and was mean to Charles. She was barely 20 but was wanted by Charles so she could have his heirs. I blame Charles because he knew the score and he was the one who should have been totally honest with Diana, even to the point of saying he did not love her but hoped he would "fall in love" with her after they married. And saying he needed his "friend" Camilla to be a part of his life.  Diana could have said sorry this is not what I want, and both could have moved on. Diana thought the man loved her and told this to Morton. Charles never told his biographer he loved his first wife. I am not speaking as a "fanatic", these are the facts.

Diana and Hewitt were not married, they could not get married because Diana was married to Charles though leading a separate life. Hewitt had some nastiness in him and maybe Diana wanted out. She was not shackled to hewitt by any means. He was mean to her when he sold his story.

I would say that if someone had told Lady Diana she would die at 36 if she did not cooperate then she would have run for the hills or cooperated with the royals.

Diana was not "slumming" with Khan, he is a renowned heart surgeon and I think he was superior to Charles because he actually gave back and saved peoples lives and helped people.

I am not inflexible but I have my opinion and go by what Charles and Diana both told their biographers. In effect, Charles told his biographer he went into the marriage not loving Diana.

I don't "vigorously attack" anything, this is a discussion board where I thought we are all free to express opinions.  Diana could have been an Eliza Doolittle trained by  her family to ride and hunt and be supposedly what Charles wanted. But they could not change Charles attitude about Camilla and Diana and marriage. Charles actually had a list allegedly made up by Camilla of "suitable" girls. Diana made the head of the list. Camilla wanted a non-interfering mouse and thought she got one.

[Trudie]

Duchlover I am a bit confused by your posts. You posted in the beginning like it was your job about how wronged Diana was and how you hated C&C. (edited) Now in the last few posts it appears your blinders are off talking about how Diana couldn't give up the royal trappings and how Hewitt didn't betray her.

When Diana was talking about not being able to give it all up Diana was talking about security for her children and it was well known how terrified she was of losing them to the RF. Diana was able to give it all up once the boys were older and in school much of the time. Sarah not losing custody of her daughters is what enabled her to get out. As for Hewitt Diana was in love with him and it was Charles who made sure Diana was introduced to him as a riding instructor. Keeping Diana amused was his agenda and at his party Hewitt was invited as was Camilla so it didn't bother Charles. Charles was 32 and had a nice time dating and having his cake Diana was a naive 19 year old who hadn't had a real youth dating and such she was working her family really didn't show any interest in her until Charles. Frances thought it was time for Diana at that young age to marry but couldn't be bothered to counsel her daughter. Johnnie was recovering from his stroke and all he saw was Diana marrying well beyond his dreams. Yes her family failed her but it was Charles and the RF who failed her the most.
[gmod] What is said in PM's should remain private. [/gmod]

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

Hey @Trudie, I DO hate C&C and Diana WAS wronged, and I DO wish that deer had done a better job of crossing the road, i have to admit everyday i check the news, part of me hopes, is today the day? but that doesnt mean that there isnt more to the story. Everyone focuses on the WHAT happened, but little on the WHY or HOW everyone got to the situation that events unfolded as they did.

Ill chalk it up to my writing style for my message not getting through, but I did NOT say Hewitt didnt betray her, Im saying that had she let him down better and saw to it he was "occupied" he would have left the relationship grateful and indebted to her, not probably upset that he was ghosted, so upset over it he failed his majors exam and was told to leave the army with few prospects, it was both financially and emotionally rewarding for Hewitt to spill the beans, and YES he was wrong to do that, but had Diana played that hand differently, she'd have had better chances of him being silent.

To the outside observer, it looks like she used him and dropped him when he was no longer of benefit/a media concern and it kinda bit her in her bottom when it didnt have to. Im looking at it in how could she have been better protected, how could her welfare have been better, so I dont understand why its being met with such scorn?

Diana couldnt give up the royal trappings, in the settlin tapes she doesnt mention anything about concern over losing the boys, she looks around the room and says quote "I mean I was quite happy to give all this up, well not all this,at the moment, at the time it was quite something to have all this, just to go off and live with him". Another book mentioned how she said her father spoiling them made her and Charles Spencer materialistic wen talking about Her and  Dodi buying every color of cashmere sweater when shopping.

Now im NOT suggesting she doesnt or didnt care about losing the boys, so im sure they would have come into the equation, but shes talking about the material surrounds her and settlin are in during the interview. Its an uncomfortable truth but an important one as she swung between love and her surroundings, sometimes one winning over the other, but in the end, her surroundings trapped her as by the time she left, there were few realistic and serious options for matrimony, but would have been many more options for suitable lovers had she stayed married. Even Teddy Forstmann found the idea of being her husband daunting, press attention wise.

Im not saying the RF or Charles didnt fail her, of course they DID. But it cannot be denied her family & friends set her up for disaster, both with not teaching her to live in a marriage where one or both partners stray, and for not being able to see Charles for what he is, and letting her think he could change, or that she could change him.

The reality is lots of men cheat, especially the type of men Diana was expected to marry, its a point up for debate but my worldview is mostly ppl are as faithful as thier options, and the men in Diana's orbit had lots and lots of options, even as a teenager, that no one taught her how to deal with that boggles my mind.

Of course would have been best if Charles had stayed true to her, if he ever was at all (I have serious doubts on the emotional side, the physical will always be up for speculation as to exact dates, etc.)

But one has to look realistically at the situation, she marries into a family where they have the upper hand in power, her concerns are going to be ignored, and if necessary they will kill her if she becomes too much of a problem. So given that situation, how does one navigate best through it for maximum happiness and lifespan?

Now obviously it was her life, and she must have felt that she made the best choice she could at the moment, and the whole thing is part hindsight, part speculation, cause we cant very well ask her more on the subject. But I find it fascinating that given how close in standing her family was to the Rf, and how she was viewed to be "one of us" was supposed to be her biggest assets, and instead was her biggest weakness, that despite having that inside track, it served her very little, and someone from "the outside" managed to play the game so well (I despise Camilla but its hard to deny she played the game well, shame it had to be against someone like Diana).

Of course we love Diana for her innocence and sweetness, but it did not serve her best for the situation of entering a vipers nest of deceit. Now probably if shed had her eyes open more the RF might not have wanted her to marry Charles, but it would have been best for her.

Thats what the whole point of my posts are about, what would have been best for her, but just my opinion, but thats not being seen here. I do think its partly up to how women and men view this and all romantic situations in general, but I think that would only serve to inflame the situation more.

But I will say, women generally view the divorce as a strike for freedom and Independence, a so called "hear me roar" moment. But given what lay ahead had she lived for matrimony choices, for the imo financial bloodbath she took in the divorce (i know the rich hide their stuff in trusts, etc. but think for a second, how much is half of what Charles owns, either directly in his name, or as the Duke of Cornwall,etc.), the beating in the press, the separation of custody, the intrusion of the RF in things like travel, where she could have the boys, etc. It would have been much better for her to have made Charles and the RF pay for a luxuriant lifestyle and charitable causes she wanted to support, found and kept a long term lover who could meet her emotional and physical needs, and had full access to the boys in the marriage.

I think it was only after the affair with Hewitt blew up and cutting off Gilby both for negative press reasons, she, to again use an analogy, pressed the self destruct button on the marriage, rather than pulling the car over and getting out carefully. Had her friends and family taught her better, she could have managed the affairs better, and she could have had CHOICES, thats my point, is that by not being taught how to handle that situation, it reached a point where she had to be the first to get her message out first with the morton book.

Had the people responsible for her education given her more tools to work with, she could have lived better in that system, and had more happiness, and if after a time, decided to leave, it could have been done on terms better for her, not a desperate bid for freedom like the book that ultimately sealed her in the tomb of her popularity and press attention, and led either directly or indirectly, depending on ones views of the events of Aug 31st, to her actual death.

Yes she got her "Tina Turner " moment, or as she said "ill fight to the end" well it was the careless prosecution of that fight that led directly to her literal end. But it seems women would rather have her dead and idealistic than still alive and being a little pragmatic and realistic. How much good could she have done in 20 years? How much love could she have given and received? What would it have been worth to her to see her kids grow up and see her grandkids born? You guys are seeing it as im bashing her, and im looking at it like she was robbed of all of that, im mad about it and want EVERYONE responsible for it held to account.

To quote Obi Wan "The truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view" I think in this case, its very true.

[sandy]

That's going into a bad area when the family must warn the daughter that the man is going to be unfaithful to her. It is dangerous in that it derides a senior royal. And it would have gotten back to Prince Charles. Supposedly, Charles was going to be a loving husband to Diana which is why he married her in the first place. I think in this case, it still is all on Charles. He was the one who could have spelled out to Diana what he wanted exactly and given her a chance to back out He just told her to think about it and would give her time. He did not say Diana I don't love you but I want to marry you to have a family with you. I still want Camilla around and I will be spending time with her and being in touch with her.  You need to accept that.

Diana would have been in a miserable no win situation had she stayed with Charles who more and more increasingly loathed her. The actual separation did not take place until 11 years after the wedding and the divorce 4 years after that. So it took time and was hardly one desperate rush to freedom.

Diana was still young and wanted a loving marriage and more children. She could not do this by keeping a lover. She wanted a husband and children.

If Diana did not want to give up the trappings, she would have stayed in the marriage no matter what and turned a blind eye. Her rebellion against being in a sham marriage certainly would mean that it could lead to her not being a royal anymore. Diana wanted to have access to her sons and that was a major reason for her staying in the marriage. She was not willing to "settle" nor put up with an increasingly emotionally abusive husband.

Diana could have kept her "enemies" close and kept Hewitt as a friend. But she didn't. ANd this still did not make it "OK" for Charles to cheat.

Women should not be in a marriage where a man cheats. Maybe Hillary struck a bargain with Bill Clinton so she could be a big player in politics. BUt other women may not want to "settle" and want a real marriage. Diana wanted a marriage.

And nobody told Diana she would "die" unless she became "civilized" and went along with a sham marriage and the bad treatment by Charles.

Teddy Forstmann did not want to be her husband nor ever said so. He said they were friends.

Hewitt's failing the exam should not be blamed on Diana. Hewitt I think is rather a get rich quick type of person who wants $$$$ and squanders it. Hewitt accepted $$$ and presents from Diana and later from other ladies of wealth.

Jackie Onassis had to wait for decades after JFK died to find a partner who loved her and she loved back. Diana was only 36 and just divorced.  I think she would have found someone.

Charles selfishness set the relationship up for disaster. He should have told Diana what he expected from the marriage and given her a chance to back out.

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

Well the reality is men in prominent positions cheat, look at sports, finance, business, royalty, etc. and Diana should have been taught that early on, of course anytime before the wedding would have been good, but im talking more in terms of any suitor she might have married, royal or not, im quite sure ive made that clear in my posts, so the whole smearing a senior royal wouldnt have been necessary to name Charles specifically, but any info Sarah had would have been helpful as far as him, specifically.

Again, I didnt say it was ok for Charles to cheat, you guys are attributing things i didnt say, and confusing morality with pragmatism.

Women should have the CHOICE to stay or not in a marriage with an unfaithful spouse, just as a man should.

True, we have no tape of someone saying Diana would die if she didnt stay with Charles, but for ppl that believe she was killed intentionally, they say it was due to her marrying someone else the Rf didnt approve of, some say it was her suggesting that Charles would have difficulty ruling, and so on. Both of those things wouldnt have happened if shed found a suitable long term lover. For ppl that think it was an accident, if she stayed married and was say travelling with a long term lover, shed have had an RPO detail and that wouldnt have happened, relying on Fayeds awful security.

A big part of Charles treatment towards her and her unhappiness was that it was more difficult once she lost her longtime lover, Hewitt. As she said  "When youre happy, you can forgive a lot" or something like that. Once Hewitt was gone, Charles behavior was more irritating and Charles found her harder to deal with and it spiraled.

I think given the age difference C&C probably wondered "WTF, I thought things were all settled, we're together and she has Hewitt, things are stable, now what she's dumped him?" Thats one area I can get as close to ill ever get to feeling for C&C. They probably thought everyone knew the score and here was Diana upending the applecart, cause she didnt have her s@#$ together with Hewitt and couldnt find a suitable long term replacement. (im braced for all the abuse over that sentence but its true).

Hewitt himself said it was his hurt feelings over Diana that affected his exam, of course he could be trying to make himself an excuse, but I think this is where men and women differ.

Without doing some research on Jackie O, I would also say it was her position in society that also made it hard to find someone, and his wealth and position were a big factor. I know you  discount what Simone  says, but Diana had mentioned about "intersting" things about their pairing Simmons said in an interview she found out about Kennedy only by chance. She said: "He came up in a conversation as we spoke about great ladies like Grace Kelly and Jackie Onassis, who she admired.

"Diana was laughing at how Jackie could have gone from someone as good-looking as JFK to someone frog-like like Aristotle Onassis.

Read more: Diana's 'one-night stand with JFK Jnr' | Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

It WAS a desperate rush to freedom, were you alive during the Morton book release? It was a huge thing, and rather than just calmly asking for a divorce, she had to take a pretty much unheard of move by a royal to force Charles to agree from a separation in releasing the book, now some of that was to have the media high ground and beat the press to the punch before Hewitt and gilby were released in the papers. But after that it was constant sniping in the papers and then the dueling interviews while they waited for the necessary time to pass before they could be divorced.

RE: Teddy Fortsmann "But when he and Debbie went to Aspen, Diana ‘coincidentally’ arrived in nearby Vail. Debbie said Teddy explained that Diana was too needy for him and he was worried she was after his money . . . and that he broke off with her for love of Debbie.

(However, Debbie and Forstmann finally broke up in 1999, two years after Diana’s death.)

The truth is that Forstmann didn’t like the publicity that went with being Diana’s love interest. He did, however, remain close to her until the end of her life.

‘Mutual confidants, after a romance’ that he aborted was how he described their relationship to the writer Jay McInerney in a piece for New York magazine in 2005".

Read more: Teddy Forstmann dead: Billionaire beguiled Princess Diana and could have saved her life | Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


I do agree with you on the fact that Charles should have laid all his cards out on the table after the marriage, before would have been better but the RF would have been scared shed not marry. I dont condone it but I understand why theyd be reticent to tip their hand. It was something id also said in pointing out the similarities in how Charles dealt with Diana mirrored how she dealt with Hewitt and both situations ended up coming back to haunt them.

In a perfect world hed give her a chance to back out before the marriage, but that wasnt going to happen thats WHY I feel she should have had a better education about men, so that wouldnt have happened in the first place!!! Maybe its a men are from Mars thing, but theres a difference between the ideal and what should be, and what is, or pragmatic realism.

At the end of the day, I wanted her safe and happy, to use an analogy, "if youre in a crosswalk and a truck is coming, you have the right of way, but its little comfort once the 18 wheeler runs you over. Charles was the 18 wheeler, and while we all enjoy berating him over "running over" Diana, id have rather she learned how to get out of the way, and im upset at the people that didnt teach her that".

Im trying to examine the why's and how could a lot of the bad things that happened, not happen. But there seems to be a narrative youre all locked into. Idk if its cause anything other than the fairytale is unacceptable, but there was definite negative blowback inflicted on Diana due to the separation and marriage that neednt have happened to her if shed have been able to manage her early affairs better due to better teaching from her "sisterhood".

[sandy]

Sarah Bradford wrote that Charles behavior got worse once he resumed his relationship with Camilla  (not that he was ever out of contact with her) and his emotional abuse got worse. She did not "credit" this behavior with Diana being done with Hewitt. Diana for a time wanted a reconciliation (and another baby) with Charles and was turned down (this ca. 1989). Hewitt's inability to take the test should not be blamed on Diana. He was taking the test, not Diana.   And he may well have flunked it if he had still been with Diana.

Quoting something by Simmons in the DM does not mean Diana slept with JFK Jr. Nobody else says she did. It is pure gossip. JFK Jr was involved with Carolyn Bessette (his wife) for much of the nineties.

Hewitt was not the reason for the Morton book. Pre Morton book Charles friends leaked nasty stories to the press about Diana. The Morton book was  a way of refuting these charges. Charles actually struck first by condoning the nasty stories leaked to the press about Diana.

Gilbey never admitted to an affair with Diana and neither did Diana in her lifetime.

Debbie saying Teddy said something is still hearsay. Teddy F. Never trashed Diana to the press.

I am not "locked into" any narrative. It is my opinion.  You have your opinion I have mine. Bringing in the gossip by Simmons does not "lock me" into believing JFK Jr and Diana had sex.

You seem to be putting words in my mouth. I never said it was a "fairytale." I think it more like a nightmare.

1000 Sisterhoods could not make Charles not be a jerk. Charles was wrong marrying Diana for heirs and knowing he did not love her. He should have told Diana the truth.

Apparently Diana did not feel "rejected" by Teddy and he did not consider her a Fatal Attraction nightmare, they were friends up until the day she died.

If Charles thought "things were stable" he's even more deluded than I thought he was.

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

I didnt say that Charles behavior was due to Diana being done with Hewitt, yes Diana did want a reconciliation and another child, to her credit, but she had also dropped Hewitt over his deployment to Germany. But her affair with Hewitt did make tolerating or avoiding his behavior easier and once that was gone, it would been harder to endure it with less happiness in her life.

As for Hewitt's major test, of course anythings possible unless we get inside the heads of those involved, everyones so quick to make every allowance for Diana's suffering but no allowances for his feelings? I agree he does a poor job of encouraging ones sympathy towards him, im examining it more as a source of his motivation for what he did, and the potential for different actions that might have altered his behavior.

It may be gossip with JFK jr, but so many of her affairs are in that area with little direct proof, just today I was reading about Eric Clapton and her, she would seductively suck on ice cubes when he looked at her while dining at San Lorenzos in the early 90s, Paul Scott's Definitive Biography of Eric Clapton tells all about the rock god | Daily Mail Online  so she could be flirtatious, and given what im sure would be the mutual chemistry between Diana and JFK jr, its entirely plausible.

Well before the book, both sides were briefing against each other in the press, and while the "war of the wales" would swing back and forth, Diana was very effective at hitting back against him in the papers, the book was to generate enough sympathy and publicity to counteract the stories about Hewitt and Gilbey's tape were the reasons she went ahead with the book, combined with wanting to leave the royal family, felix lyle the astrologist she saw to see if it was an good time to release the book, said it was like a "revenge on the princess" and "filled with spite" then when you add in her story about the fall down the stairs being shown to be untrue that it was an accident, not a suicide attempt, just gave free ammo to the Camilla fans that she didnt need to do. It also greatly increased the media attention on her, that caused other problems for her that didnt need to have happened.

I'm pretty sure ive said many times on the forum that Gilby was likely friendzoned.

'Mutual confidants, after a romance' that he aborted was how he described their relationship to the writer Jay McInerney in a piece for New York magazine in 2005". True Debbie might have a biased viewpoint, but I had Teddy's words, which I had in my previous post, he also said Diana "wasnt his kind of girl" to an author with respect to being a long term romance.

The truth is that Forstmann didn't like the publicity that went with being Diana's love interest. He did, however, remain close to her until the end of her life. (the article authors words, which I had in my post, I didnt claim it was a "fatal attraction" nightmare, they were friends afterwards but she did imagine being his wife and first lady if he became president, so looks like a rejection to me. Teddy didnt and I never said he trashed Diana in the press.

Charles was told that Hewitt was a part of her life the way CPB was in his life and that continued for a few years, so considering the timespan of their marriage, it was a stable period, both had someone to take care of the needs the other couldnt or wouldnt. It was only once the Hewitt affair was concluded that leaving became a priority.

Yes, Charles was a jerk and he shouldnt have deluded Diana, thats not what im talking about, im talking about her entering an arrangement where she was at a disadvantage powerwise, and was not advised of the potential lay of the land, either Charles or some other prominent man had the potential for such a situation to occur, and had to make her way on her own, and chose a course of action that ended up in a lot of suffering for her and her death. She may have won a battle or two, but lost the war, and I wanted her to win that war, so im also trying to shine light on others responsible for her mess in addition to the usual suspects.

But honestly, its frustrating to have to repost stuff from my last post directly contradicting stuff that either youre claiming someone said or didnt say, or things I didnt say. I go to a lot of work to research and post this stuff, if its not going to be read, im just wasting my time.

So ill suggest that you watch Story of a Princess part 1 &2 the DVD that went with the book.

Diana - Story Of A Princess - Part 1 (HD Best Version) Documentary - YouTube
Diana - Story Of A Princess - Part 2 (HD Best Version) Documentary - YouTube

Its a great watch, and it forms the bones of a lot of the ideas ive been banding around. I do hope you watch and enjoy it, but for now, I just cant take the time to repost stuff, sorry I dont mean it to sound harsh. We likely are never going to see eye to eye on this subject. I wish you well. :flower:

[sandy]

Once Hewitt sold his story for $$$$, I had no sympathy for him. To compound t hings, after she died, he went on a show saying Under "hypnosis" (LOL) that he and Diana "could have" started their affair earlier, which unleashed the floodgates of vicious gossips going on about Hewitt being the 'father" of Harry.  Diana stopped seeing him but his reaction to it was getting even. He still has a pile of letters from Diana that nobody is buying from him.  Many people have to take exams during breakups. But Hewitt must have realized they would have had no future. If Diana "bolted" she most likely would have lost custody of WIlliam and Harry. A breakup IMO was inevitable at some point.

Clapton wanted to promote himself so HE talked about her "sucking on ice cubes." There is no image of Diana doing this. But if people want to trash Diana, they will believe anything.

JFK Jr and Diana are dead so anybody can say anything about them. They could say Diana had an affair with Elvis to try to sell a book. Simone Simmons is not exactly a believable source, just another Diana acquaintance who wanted to get in on the gravy train.  If you see it as "plausible," that's your choice.  At the time JFK Jr was in a relationship with Carolyn Bessette and she was the love of his life. I think Carolyn would have found out about any such affair and dumped him then and there. Diana also was not some bar hopping tramp who had one night stands.

Diana and Teddy were friends. She never called him "Mr Wonderful" like she did with Khan.

I don' t think Clapton is a great research source and neither is Simmons. Clapton can say Diana propositioned him or some other lurid statement and conveniently she can't refute this claim. Also Joan Rivers said on National TV that Diana "slept around." Do you believe this? You seem to believe other gossip about her.

Unless Diana and JFK Jr admitted and affair before they died, there is zilch proof and the only one who claims this is a very dubious source. I read Story of a Princess and saw the documentary, and they did not claim Diana slept with JFK Jr nor sympathized with hewitt flunking a test.

I think Diana won the war since Charles and Camilla are not popular with everybody to say the least.

[LouisFerdinand]

I always thought it unfortunate that Diana had to move in to BP and stay there until the wedding. she was very isolated and the royals apparently did not spend all that much time with her. Charles left to go on a tour. I think it better that future royal wives get to stay in their own homes, with their families, pre marriage. Before the engagement was announced she had a respite and stayed with her mother and stepfather in Australia.

Did Prince Charles not take time to consider that dearest Diana might have trillions of questions about royal life and court functions?   
He left to go on a tour. Would he have liked to have been in Diana's position?     

:hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:

[sandy]

The trouble is Charles IMO puts himself first always and  was and is egocentric.

[TLLK]

I always thought it unfortunate that Diana had to move in to BP and stay there until the wedding. she was very isolated and the royals apparently did not spend all that much time with her. Charles left to go on a tour. I think it better that future royal wives get to stay in their own homes, with their families, pre marriage. Before the engagement was announced she had a respite and stayed with her mother and stepfather in Australia.

Did Prince Charles not take time to consider that dearest Diana might have trillions of questions about royal life and court functions?   
He left to go on a tour. Would he have liked to have been in Diana's position?     

:hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:

@LouisFerdinand - I have no idea what Charles and Diana discussed prior to their wedding regarding court function and royal life. I do know that Lady Susan Hussey was there to help Diana understand her role as a female member of the British Royal Family. Being a woman who had served QEII as a Lady-in-waiting, I believe she would have more specific and relevant information as to how a princess/royal duchess should dress, behave, and perform her role as a member of the British royal family. Charles, another male family member or male staff member could answer more general questions about the workings of the BRF.  In other words, Lady Susan was likely be a better instructor on how to curtsy, sit, receive flowers etc... than a male member of the family or staff.  :)

[sandy]

Since Charles was to be her husband and they would work together as a royal couple, I think he should have been the prime source of help to her. Diana later relied on Anne Beckwith Smith, a lady in waiting.  Diana had met the royals previously so I think she had the curtsy instructions already.

[Trudie]

I have to agree with Sandy Charles should have been the primary source to help ease Diana into her role. I don't think Diana was prepared prior to the official engagement about being entirely isolated. Charles should have enlightened her that the family is not cosy and unlike her own upbringing they don't mingle with the staff. Charles and his family have no real clue or understanding of real and everyday living they are still totally stuck in Victorian England where Royals only married other Royals used to being isolated and revered beings. For all the intellect and forward thinking Prince he is made out to be it turns out his son William got it right easing Kate into her role with the love and compassion Charles will never have nor the insight that people need guidance and understanding in taking on such a role.

[LouisFerdinand]

Obviously Prince Charles would have known what topics were proper for discussion at royal functions such as a state banquet. Obviously and hopefully he would have known what topics were not proper for discussion at royal functions.

[TLLK]

^^^Yes @LouisFerdinand Charles and his siblings would have received instruction from their family regarding behavior at State Banquets etc...Hindsight is 20-20 but it was clear that both Diana and Sarah felt that they had not received enough support when they married into the family. Their fiances had many obligations and the support/instruction from BRF staff was apparently not what either lady felt that she needed. Neither Diana or Sarah were really inclined to using history books as a primary resource for their "princess lessons." Fortunately it appears that the BRF has opted to introduce the new members with a broader and more complete education. Sophie Rhy-Jones' preparation appears to have been a vast improvement over what Diana and Sarah received.

[royalanthropologist]

I believe the queen "lent" her lady in waiting to Diana to learn the ropes but the Mountbattens report that Diana ignored such help because she believed her popularity would see her through everything. She wanted her husband's constant attention and yet he was bored with her. They had nothing in common to chat about, let alone have a walk through royal banquets. Charles took his every opportunity to be away from Diana. I think Ken Wharfe described how Diana did not like the stiff protocols of banquets whereas Charles enjoyed them. She became moody and uncooperative, threatening  to ignore the protocols for arrival. At that point Charles was no longer bothered and he simply ignored her, moving away to pour himself a drink whilst waiting for the car. That just about sums up that relationship.

If Dodi did not have a cocaine habit and an overbearing father, he might have been right for Diana. They were at a similar level intellectually and he had the money to keep her in the style she was accustomed to.  With him, she did not have to worry about upstaging him in public since he was not really bothered about that. He was also likely to be available to her whenever and wherever she needed. It is a pity they died before they could make a proper go of it.